Has the Reformation truly finished????

[brakelite]

The Miracle of Unity has Begun....??????!!!!!!!
According to Bishop Tony Palmer, a charismatic Anglican bishop, the reformation finished in 1999. On the grounds of some change in Vatican policy he claims that no longer is there anything to protest about. Is this true? Is the protest over? The following video is ground-breaking. Many of you may be aware of this, but do you fully understand the ramifications? Do you realize what is actually being proposed here, and do you agree with this? Was the protestant reformation merely a misunderstanding? Were the protestant reformers mistaken? Has the Vatican changed so much that what the reformers were willing to die for 400 years ago, are now irrelevant? Did Luther post 1 thesis, or 99 on the door of his church? Was salvation by faith only the only issue? Or do you think that the following video or the meeting to which it is connected, was just a passing mist that will vanish away? Because Bishop Palmer has folowed this up with another video, saying similar things but in even stronger terms. Think carefully about this. Particularly in relation to Revelation 13 which tells of a global religious union of church and state which compels worship.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehFpeVGLyxs

As I said, Bishop Palmer folowed this with another...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHbEWw7l_Ek

Am very interested in this forums views. Lets discuss.

 

[Floyd]

The Miracle of Unity has Begun....??????!!!!!!!
According to Bishop Tony Palmer, a charismatic Anglican bishop, the reformation finished in 1999. On the grounds of some change in Vatican policy he claims that no longer is there anything to protest about. Is this true? Is the protest over? The following video is ground-breaking. Many of you may be aware of this, but do you fully understand the ramifications? Do you realize what is actually being proposed here, and do you agree with this? Was the protestant reformation merely a misunderstanding? Were the protestant reformers mistaken? Has the Vatican changed so much that what the reformers were willing to die for 400 years ago, are now irrelevant? Did Luther post 1 thesis, or 99 on the door of his church? Was salvation by faith only the only issue? Or do you think that the following video or the meeting to which it is connected, was just a passing mist that will vanish away? Because Bishop Palmer has folowed this up with another video, saying similar things but in even stronger terms. Think carefully about this. Particularly in relation to Revelation 13 which tells of a global religious union of church and state which compels worship.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehFpeVGLyxs

As I said, Bishop Palmer folowed this with another...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHbEWw7l_Ek

Am very interested in this forums views. Lets discuss.

The Reformation was/is very necessary; and we must not relent!

Why the Roman Catholic church is not of God Almighty: (Separate study)

The Ecumenical Movement and the Bible: (Separate study)

Floyd.

 

[brakelite]

The Reformation was/is very necessary; and we must not relent!

Why the Roman Catholic church is not of God Almighty: (Separate study)

The Ecumenical Movement and the Bible: (Separate study)

Floyd.

Hi Floyd. I looked at your links and concur with much of what is represented there.
I agree also that the reformation was not only necessary, but God inspired, and even more, that it isn't yet finished.

So what do you make of this recent flurry of activity on the part of Rome and these recent unprecedented overtures to Pentecostal churches in the US? Why is it do you think that Protestants, and in particular Pentecostals who until recently had a rather dim view of the RCC, are so ready to accept Rome and seriously consider some form of future reunion? What has happened that this change has been made in our thinking? Are the changes in Rome, or with us????

 

[Floyd]

Hi Floyd. I looked at your links and concur with much of what is represented there.
I agree also that the reformation was not only necessary, but God inspired, and even more, that it isn't yet finished.

So what do you make of this recent flurry of activity on the part of Rome and these recent unprecedented overtures to Pentecostal churches in the US? Why is it do you think that Protestants, and in particular Pentecostals who until recently had a rather dim view of the RCC, are so ready to accept Rome and seriously consider some form of future reunion? What has happened that this change has been made in our thinking? Are the changes in Rome, or with us????

Hi Brakelite:
I think Rome is interested in harnessing the Charismatic/Pentecostals into the fold of Ecumenicalism because it already leads that grouping, and also because it has seen the phenomenal growth of the (Satanic) movement!
Since it lost power in England/Europe in the last few hundred years (Henry 8th); it has been waiting and watching to make its move to increase its power again to a degree to which has not yet had.
The RC has covertly been using and training church leaders in all sections of Protestantism in the UK for many years, and giving training (some in Rome) for the very best candidates (ie the most sycophantic).
I came against a number of church leaders in the last 30 years from C of E to Baptist who are clearly teaching the message of Rome; and excluding Acts 4:12; as that is the one Truth which disrupts Rome's efforts!
Rome is an easy target for Satan, as they have been corrupt, and his easy tool since Constantine!
It is a great wonder, that during the ages of ignorance and poor education, (AD300-1500 approx.) despite the control of Rome through their priest system; the Holy Spirit still brought people to Christ! (Praise Him).
The coming events after the end of this Age (Gentile Age), will see Rome as a major tool of Satan; because, as mentioned earlier, they only want power; and are not interested in Truth (when I use the term "Rome", I refer to the Hierarchy and System, not the individual RC people).
When one thinks on the time- scale of Anti-Christ influence, it is short.
That why he will use the great organizations of the world to propel his purpose to quick conclusion; which is to annihilate Israel!
There are sections on this subject in www.revellationsmessage.co.uk

As regards your direct question, "are the changes in Rome or in us"; I am certain that the changes are not in Rome, as detailed above; the changes are the weakening of the Protestant resolve to see Christ Jesus "as the only way of Salvation"; and the mantra of Rome, affected protestant leaders that "there are many ways to God"!
The current effort is to greatly increase numbers for Rome; to present their credentials to the great figure yet to emerge the Anti-Christ persona; who will have great influence and power; and will make Hitler at his greatest popularity seem like a poor shadow compared with him!!
Floyd.

 

[brakelite]

Have you read the testimony of the ex-Jesuit priest, Fransisco Ribera? He says that every single Protestant denomination, seminary, College and University have been infiltrated by Jesuits posing as Protestant teachers, and the result has been a great undermining of Protestant doctrine and faith. Ribera said that the Pentecostals were the most difficult to infiltrate.

I see that you believe in a coming antichrist, the 7 year tribulation, along the line of the popular futurist teachings we see in the Left Behind series and such books. I have something to say on this in future posts. I see however you don't accept the rapture theory, which I also reject.

Catch up later.

Does the rise of Rome and the close relations developing between Protestant churches and Rome concern anyone else? Does the political realtions between Rome and the rest of the world concern anyone? Does anyone on this forum understand their history, apart from Floyd?

 

[Floyd]

Have you read the testimony of the ex-Jesuit priest, Fransisco Ribera? He says that every single Protestant denomination, seminary, College and University have been infiltrated by Jesuits posing as Protestant teachers, and the result has been a great undermining of Protestant doctrine and faith. Ribera said that the Pentecostals were the most difficult to infiltrate.

I see that you believe in a coming antichrist, the 7 year tribulation, along the line of the popular futurist teachings we see in the Left Behind series and such books. I have something to say on this in future posts. I see however you don't accept the rapture theory, which I also reject.

Catch up later.

Does the rise of Rome and the close relations developing between Protestant churches and Rome concern anyone else? Does the political realtions between Rome and the rest of the world concern anyone? Does anyone on this forum understand their history, apart from Floyd?

That one I haven't Brakelight.
I am reading at present "Far from Rome, Near to God"; the accounts of 50 RC Priests who when exposed to the Bible without Roman supervision, found for the first time "peace, security of salvation, freedom", when they came to Jesus in humble truth. These stories are very moving as all found the same verses gave them the progress needed; one being Jhn.3:16.

The Roman case became a very intense study for me approx. 25 years ago, when a man and a woman from Switzerland arrived at my door without warning.
I had for some time been trying to obtain objective information on the Roman Church to place it in its proper context in history.
The couple mentioned gave me a book titled "Babylon Mystery Religion"; which gave me all I needed to know for objectivity!
I later found out that the Roman Vatican Hierarchy had ordered all copies worldwide to be purchased and destroyed; which effort was largely successful; but some escaped, and are used against Rome!
Regards.
Floyd.

 

[soupy]

The Roman case became a very intense study for me approx. 25 years ago, when a man and a woman from Switzerland arrived at my door without warning.
I had for some time been trying to obtain objective information on the Roman Church to place it in its proper context in history.
The couple mentioned gave me a book titled "Babylon Mystery Religion"; which gave me all I needed to know for objectivity!
I later found out that the Roman Vatican Hierarchy had ordered all copies worldwide to be purchased and destroyed; which effort was largely successful; but some escaped, and are used against Rome!
Regards.
Floyd.

The author of this book, now offers a corrected new book, look to the author's site for this information. I suggest you get the new book if you want to quote his work.

 

[Floyd]

The author of this book, now offers a corrected new book, look to the author's site for this information. I suggest you get the new book if you want to quote his work.

Soupy :are you saying that the info in this Link is not valid?

If you are, then you don't know your church!

Why the Roman Catholic church is not of God Almighty: (Separate study)

Floyd.

 

[brakelite]

The following is an article written by Harold Harker.

From the time of Martin Luther, all the great leaders of the Protestant Reformation espoused and preached four great statements of belief:

◗ sola fide—only by faith
◗ sola Christus—only by Jesus Christ
◗ sola Scriptura—only by the authority of Scripture
◗ sola gratia—only by grace.

These four statements became the foundation of the Reformation—preached, believed and shown to be the basis of the salvation of every person.

Martin Luther came to the forefront of the Reformation after his solitary stand against the emperor and the established church when he was called to account for his “heresy” at the German city of Worms in 1521.

His famous closing words still echo today: “As long as my conscience is bound by the Word of God, I cannot, and will not recant, because acting against conscience is unsafe and threatens salvation. God help me. Amen.”

Another great personality in the Reformation at the time of Luther was Andreas Rudolph Bodenstein von Karlstadt, more commonly known as Andreas Karlstadt. Born around the same time as Luther, it was Karlstadt who, as chancellor of the University of Wittenberg, conferred on Luther a doctorate of theology degree in 1512. In 1515 and 1516 Karlstadt went to Rome, where he earned a double degree in canon and civil law. However, while he was there, he saw firsthand the widespread corruption in the church and felt compelled to write a series of 151 theses.

At first, Karlstadt opposed Luther’s views on salvation. However, the year that Luther nailed his 95 theses to the door of the church in Wittenberg, Karlstadt accepted salvation by grace through faith. He did this on the basis of what he read in the Bible.

Karlstadt had a great mind and was well versed in Latin, Greek and Hebrew. Luther described him as “a man of unequalled wisdom” and acknowledged him to be his academic superior—at least when Karlstadt agreed with him! However, when Karlstadt disagreed with him, Luther could also call him “an incarnate devil”!

Karlstadt may well have been the first to expound on the belief in sola Scriptura. He became famous for his continual use of the words “But the Bible says . . .” In 1520 he wrote a treatise, titled “On the Canonical Scriptures,” in which he argued that the Holy Spirit speaks to the church through the words of the Bible. Certainly he wanted a complete return to the binding authority of the Bible.

Karlstadt also emphasised the words of the apostle Paul in 2 Timothy 3:16: “all Scripture is God-breathed” (italics added). In this, he differed from Martin Luther in that Karlstadt affirmed the Old Testament as well as the New Testament. To Karlstadt, the Law of Moses was still binding, while Luther had a strong aversion to a legal and Judaising religion. Luther is also known to have stated that the book of James was an “epistle of sin” and that it should not have been included in the canon of Scripture.

In 1519 the differences in the understanding of Luther and Karlstadt became apparent. Johann Eck, who was a staunch defender of Catholicism, challenged Karlstadt to a debate in Leipzig. While Luther wasn’t invited, he came anyway and made a presentation. Eck was renowned for his great memory and loud voice and personal presence, while Karlstadt was of lesser stature than Luther, with a ruddy complexion and a thick and unpleasant voice.

Over the week, Karlstadt was in a hot debate with Eck. Then Luther entered the fray. Eck managed to push Luther into a corner and got him to agree with some of the teachings of John Wycliffe and John Huss. This gave Eck the ammunition he needed to go to Rome and get an order for Luther to be excommunicated.

Luther insisted on the Bible being the sole authority for all his teachings, but Eck challenged him on one point: sola Scriptura versus the authority of the Roman church and the pope.

Eck stunned Luther with this challenge: “If, however the Church has had power to change the Sabbath of the commandment into Sunday and to command Sunday keeping, why should it not have this power concerning other [holy] days? If you . . . turn from the Church to the Scriptures alone, then you must keep the Sabbath [Saturday] with the Jews, which has been kept from the beginning of the world.”

Karlstadt must have been greatly impressed by this challenge, because from then on he strongly advocated the observance of the Sabbath on Saturday. His staunch support for the Sabbath caused Luther to write, “If Karlstadt were to write further about the Sabbath, Sunday would have to give way and the Sabbath—that is to say, Saturday—must be kept holy.”

Luther, mighty Reformation warrior though he was, was not one to continue to advance Karlstadt’s beliefs further, despite the evidence found in Scripture.

Interestingly, in an article titled “Sunday,” the Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge mentions that Luther’s only excuse for avoiding the observance of the Sabbath on Saturday was “to avoid the unnecessary disturbance which [such] an innovation would occasion, it [therefore] should continue to be Sunday.”

For all his faults, Karlstadt deserves much more acclaim for his dedicated elevation of the Scriptures than many other Reformers of his time.

While all this was going on, the issue of sola Scriptura continued to aggravate the church in Rome, as it directly countered its claim of authority to interpret the Bible. The advent of the printing press had made the Bible and the writings of the Reformers readily available throughout Europe. Even some Roman priests thought that the Bible should have a more authoritative place in the church.

Finally the Council of Trent was called. Its many sessions were held over nearly 19 years. One of the issues that the Roman church wanted to counter was the Protestant principle of sola Scriptura. Thus, on January 18, 1562, Gaspar del Fosso, the archbishop of Reggio, presented the same argument that Eck had used against Luther.

He said, “The Protestants claim to stand upon the written word only. They profess to hold the Scripture alone as the standard point of faith. They justify their revolt by the plea that the church has apostatised from the written word and follows tradition. Now the Protestants’ claim that they stand upon the written word only is not true. Their profession of holding the Scripture alone as the standard of faith is false!”

His proof of this statement lay in the fact that the written word explicitly enjoins the observance of the seventh day as the Sabbath. However, Protestants did not observe the seventh day, as they should if they held the Scriptures alone as their standard. Instead, they rejected it.

Del Fosso went on to argue that “[Protestants] not only reject the observance of the Sabbath enjoined in the written word, but they have adopted and do practice the observance of Sunday, for which they have only the tradition of the church.”

So, are we Protestants? Do we also proclaim sola scriptura as one of the basic tenets of faith? Or are we more inclined toward Rome, and accept tradition as being more authorative than scripture if the church so declares? And is Sabbath observance a dividing issue between those who choose scripture above tradition?

 

[clark thompson]

All I cans say is I will not become catholic or follow the pope.

 

[Floyd]

All I cans say is I will not become catholic or follow the pope.

Ecumenical Movement


[SIZE=16pt]Revelation 2:2a[/SIZE]




[SIZE=14pt]V.2 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]I know thy [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]works[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] and labour, and patience, [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]and how thou canst not bear them [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]which are evil,[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] and thou hast tried them which [/SIZE][SIZE=13.5pt](a)http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/chapter2.htm[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]say they are apostles,[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] and are not and hast found them liars:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt](a)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]"Say they are apostles," [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]many examples in the Acts, which indicates that the characteristics of this future time to be similar to the Acts period (Jews are again "first priority", and probably again "Ammi", Hos. 1:10-11;2:1).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]At the present time, many people say they are Christians, but are not! These people are easily discerned, they do not like to study the Bible, and tend to devalue it "as only one of the churches founding documents." They[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] cannot use the name of Christ in conversation without embarrassment, and tend to refer to "God" frequently, when The Lord's name should be used. When asked to express their faith, they usually express anger, or they will use the noun "Jesus," but[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]cannot say "my Lord and Saviour Jesus The Christ.” [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] Their "Jesus" is One of the impostors, as Jesus Barabbas, and they will undoubtedly be in the category described in Matt.7:22-23. They are also often very active in the Ecumenical movement: [/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]Ecumenical (The) Movement and the Bible:[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] (Separate study)[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]which is powered by Rome, which teaches, "we must all live together, not concentrate on our differences, and there are many ways to God, and pray for world peace." This of course chimes well with the world's politicians, who are afraid of religious conflict becoming uncontrollable. [/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]In short, many of the world's established churches are now little more than social clubs, with music, and many other activities taking the place of true evangelising.[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]The Acts 4:12 principle is now forbidden, "so as not to offend people." The insights of Martin Luther and the other worthy reformers are ignored and devalued in the inexorable march towards "Ecumenical peace." This false "peace" will arrive, first for Israel, and then the world, under Anti-Christ! At that stage the ref. in Zech. 1:11, and Rev.6:4 will apply.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]In the Old Testament Jewish context, the false leaders and bad shepherds were not challenged, and the damage and evil that followed are evident up to the present day. The false and corrupt shepherds of Israel are destined for special judgement (Jer.25:34-36, Ezk. 34.) It is certain that the false shepherds of today, and their helpers in the congregations will meet a similar fate.[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] This subject has been laboured because throughout the Ages [/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]The Lie (Rev.14:5); [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] propagated by Satan in many guises has held sway. It holds sway now. [/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]The truth of Acts 4:12 is denied worldwide.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]In the example above, Jews are saying they are Jews, but are not! Here men claim Apostleship: (one who is a special messenger, App. 189 Comp. Bible), for purpose of false teaching causing dispute and dissent.[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]The same in Rev. 3:9. The punishment for these and all liars is shown in Rev. 21:27, and 22:15. The purpose in this case is to cause weakness of resolve, and to work against "the angel." The object is to engender failure of the "Ephesus church," and failure [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]as the anti-thesis. This also indicates an early event, and a "filling full" in the yet future![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]In these 7 churches, with the special focus of Christ, [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]all Satan's wiles are to be resisted[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt], [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]hence the many references to Old Testament situations and characters. They are showing to be the "anti-thesis," with Christ's help to [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Israel's failure and[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]perversion,[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] when in their "Ammi" state, prior to Christ's first advent. "Christ's help" here means access to Holy Spirit empowerment, as was the case for Jewish and some Gentile believers up to Acts 28:28![/SIZE]

Floyd.

 

[brakelite]

Hi Clark. If you personally do not embrace the reformation and all it entails....that is withdrawing yourself from everything that is of tradition or of pagan origin that is unbilical, or obeying the commandments or doctrines of man over the commandments of God, and you continue to cleave to false teachings taught and practiced by the beast power, then you are already under the authority and rule of the Antichrist. Sola scriptura.

Notice what the Bible says Clark...
Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.....
.....and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast.....14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do.....16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

How do you know that you are not already deceived and will soon be among the majority who worship in the counterfeit system? What is the difference between you and faithful Sunday-go-to-church-mid-week Bible student-witnessing Joey Bloggspot next door ?
Not saying you are, but how do you know you are not?

 

[Raeneske]

Have you read the testimony of the ex-Jesuit priest, Fransisco Ribera? He says that every single Protestant denomination, seminary, College and University have been infiltrated by Jesuits posing as Protestant teachers, and the result has been a great undermining of Protestant doctrine and faith. Ribera said that the Pentecostals were the most difficult to infiltrate.

I see that you believe in a coming antichrist, the 7 year tribulation, along the line of the popular futurist teachings we see in the Left Behind series and such books. I have something to say on this in future posts. I see however you don't accept the rapture theory, which I also reject.

Catch up later.

Does the rise of Rome and the close relations developing between Protestant churches and Rome concern anyone else? Does the political realtions between Rome and the rest of the world concern anyone? Does anyone on this forum understand their history, apart from Floyd?

Unity, unity, unity! is what is being pushed.

Proverbs 11:21 Though hand join in hand, the wicked shall not be unpunished: but the seed of the righteous shall be delivered.

Christ came not to send peace, but a sword.

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

We're supposed to be at variance with those who don't believe as we do - not that we are to hate them - no. We are to love everyone. But we are not to join together with them.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Mark my words - Protestant Churches WILL continue to come closer and closer with Rome.

 

[brakelite]

Unity, unity, unity! is what is being pushed.

Proverbs 11:21 Though hand join in hand, the wicked shall not be unpunished: but the seed of the righteous shall be delivered.

Christ came not to send peace, but a sword.

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

We're supposed to be at variance with those who don't believe as we do - not that we are to hate them - no. We are to love everyone. But we are not to join together with them.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Mark my words - Protestant Churches WILL continue to come closer and closer with Rome.

Not just Proetstant churches Raeneske. Every religion on the planet, including those who profess no religion, all independant churches, and the vast majority of individuals who at the present time would deny such a scenario, but will be either decieved and receive the mark of the beast in their forehead, in the mind, or they will relent under threat and pressure of no work and income or jail and general persecution, and receive the mark in the hand out of convenience, thus surrendering their allegience to Rome. It seems a great many pentecostals are already half way there...the anglicans are already there along with some branches of the Lutherans. And there is pressure coming upon many other denominations who not that long ago viewed the Roman apostasy as just that.

 

[Floyd]

From Brakelight:

Not just Proetstant churches Raeneske. Every religion on the planet, including those who profess no religion, all independant churches, and the vast majority of individuals who at the present time would deny such a scenario, but will be either decieved and receive the mark of the beast in their forehead, in the mind, or they will relent under threat and pressure of no work and income or jail and general persecution, and receive the mark in the hand out of convenience, thus surrendering their allegience to Rome. It seems a great many pentecostals are already half way there...the anglicans are already there along with some branches of the Lutherans. And there is pressure coming upon many other denominations who not that long ago viewed the Roman apostasy as just that.


From Floyd.

Antichrist Revelation chapter 13:8

[SIZE=14pt]V.8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall (a)worship him every one whose name is not written in the (b)book of the life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt](a) Here is reached probably the highest point on earth (as opposed to heaven) for the beast/Satan, who now has many of the earth's population openly worshipping him directly, and via. his false messiah and false prophet, some believing that he is the true God. It is quite possible that the charade of Satan is so convincing that the established religions will accept him as Messiah (in the case of the Jews,) the risen Christ (in the case of Christendom,) and the hidden Imam (in the case of Islam.) This especially so as the beast will "hate the whore," (Rev. 17:16) and appear to destroy her, which is clearly false righteousness for the effect of drawing their large groups together. The question arises, who is this entity described as "the beast?" Chapter 2 of Daniel describes the figure in Nebuchadnezzar's dream. When the legs are reached they are described as iron (V.33,) and from history are clearly military and religious Rome. The ending of the military phase of Rome started in the 4th century A.D. under Constantine. He and his very influential mother Helena, began the conversion of the empire into a military and religious body, for many reasons, including the main one, effective control of the empire and people. Constantine set up his own capital at Byzantium/Stambul (Istambul) which he re-named Constantinople. This alienated Rome, which by the 11th century A.D., split completely into the East and West of the original "Holy Roman Empire." Since then the two have established separate orthodoxies, i.e. Eastern Orthodox, and Roman Church, (two legs.) The feet of the dream (Dan. 2:41) and the toes (V.42) are the subject of our present study. Verse 1 describes it as having 7 heads and 10 horns (the horns are assumed to be the toes of the "image" Dan. 2:41.) Other references to it are in Dan. 7:7 "ten horns," and 7:20 "ten horns." In 7:20 and 7:24 another horn rises and subdues 3 of them, and becomes very powerful. It is that horn in its power base that "makes war with the saints," 7:21 and 7:25. In Rev. 13, the beast has 7 heads. In Dan. 7:20 the ten horns are on one[/SIZE] head, implying that the 7 nations have become one power (Confederation,) under the most powerful horn 7:21. The identity of the little horn is the next concern. In Dan. 8:23 we are shown that he arrives out of the divided kingdom of Alexander the Great, (8:21-22,) which was divided between his four Generals at the death of Alexander. We also have many Scripture references to him. I.e; in Dan. 8:23 the correct Hebrew shows that "the transgressions," (against Israel) are to reach a peak, before "he," "shall stand up." This clearly points to the Tribulation imposed on the Jews by him (Satan) in the background, and almost certainly his full exposure ("standing up") will correspond with the breaking of "the covenant," (Dan. 9:27.) His highest representative on earth is commonly called "Antichrist." Through the Ages he has had various roles on earth i.e. (Isa. 14:4,) (Isa. 14:12,) (Isa. 14:25,) (Dan. 8:23,) (7:8) (Dan. 9:26,) (Dan. 11:36,) (Mic. 5:5,) (2 Thess. 2:3,) (2 Thess. 2:8,) (Rev. 13:1,) and (Rev. 13:18.) Some of the above apply to his future role as Antichrist.

[SIZE=14pt]IN SUMMARY, the "little horn," Antichrist emerges from the 4th beast (Confederacy) as its leader. Initially magnanimous to Israel, there is a 3½ year period of peace for them. After the first 3½ years, he breaks the agreement with Israel and they enter persecution (Jer. 30:7,) known in prophecy as "Jacob's Trouble," for 3½ years. However, this is the stage of the dramatic re-entry of the Christ of Jehovah onto the world stage for the first time in Power[/SIZE] (Dan. 2:34-35, 44 and 45,) (Isa.) (Zech.) (Ezk.) etc. (As opposed to His first Advent as the Son of Man, and the Sacrificial Lamb.) Simultaneously much is happening to the nations of the world, which is not of Satan, but the "wrath of God," (Rev. 16:1.)

[SIZE=14pt]There are some who claim that there is no such entity as "Antichrist," because the word is not used explicitly.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]This is not so, and is intended to deceive and unsettle those people that want the Truth regarding the future, from the Word of God. 1John 2:18 refers to the Antichrist in both singular and plural, the singular to the person, as embodied in the above text, and the plural in the general attitude and conviction in people against the person and Salvation work of Christ. The references in 2Thess. 2:3-9, is specific to the person, and descriptive of his actions in the last 3[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]½[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] years of time, prior to Christ's 2nd Advent![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Any who try to argue against these truths, are identifying themselves as "antichrist" in the plural![/SIZE]
From Brakelight:


How do you know that you are not already deceived and will soon be among the majority who worship in the counterfeit system? What is the difference between you and faithful Sunday-go-to-church-mid-week Bible student-witnessing Joey Bloggspot next door ?
Not saying you are, but how do you know you are not?


From Floyd:

The Sabbath as we all know is Jewish. It is based on the Law given to Moses, and Genesis; and God's statement of rest.
Its application is basically Jewish (prior to John the Baptist), but is observed by Orthodox Jews (Pharisees) on Saturday.
The formation of the Roman Church eventually changed the observance for "Christians" to Sunday (ancient day of the sun; pagan worship).
The Protestants have followed suit, despite much argument and debate.
Recently, one Sunday, a Christian locally was seen on his roof doing repairs to his chimney. A neighbour shout to him, "why aren't you at church".
He replied, "Sunday is every day with me and my ilk, as also is Christmas day, it's inside me"!
A very interesting comment; as only God Almighty know the heart of us all!
The reply is true to "spiritual fact" and Truth of the Almighty's knowledge of His true people, but, does not satisfy the unsaved around us.
So; despite the irrelevance of the day known as "the Sabbath", as an act of witness (and ridicule) we attend church (or goup) on Sunday at present, to continue to "conform" to the mould imposed by Constantine!
It has its results; as did/does the corrupt Roman Church for 1400 years; despite its Babylonian teaching.
The Holy Spirit cannot be quenched in this Age, despite the best efforts of Satan (who some people believe is now bound)!!!
Floyd.



From Brakelight:


How do you know that you are not already deceived and will soon be among the majority who worship in the counterfeit system? What is the difference between you and faithful Sunday-go-to-church-mid-week Bible student-witnessing Joey Bloggspot next door ?
Not saying you are, but how do you know you are not?


From Floyd:

The Sabbath as we all know is Jewish. It is based on the Law given to Moses, and Genesis; and God's statement of rest.
Its application is basically Jewish (prior to John the Baptist), but is observed by Orthodox Jews (Pharisees) on Saturday.
The formation of the Roman Church eventually changed the observance for "Christians" to Sunday (ancient day of the sun; pagan worship).
The Protestants have followed suit, despite much argument and debate.
Recently, one Sunday, a Christian locally was seen on his roof doing repairs to his chimney. A neighbour shout to him, "why aren't you at church".
He replied, "Sunday is every day with me and my ilk, as also is Christmas day, it's inside me"!
A very interesting comment; as only God Almighty know the heart of us all!
The reply is true to "spiritual fact" and Truth of the Almighty's knowledge of His true people, but, does not satisfy the unsaved around us.
So; despite the irrelevance of the day known as "the Sabbath", as an act of witness (and ridicule) we attend church (or goup) on Sunday at present, to continue to "conform" to the mould imposed by Constantine!
It has its results; as did/does the corrupt Roman Church for 1400 years; despite its Babylonian teaching.
The Holy Spirit cannot be quenched in this Age, despite the best efforts of Satan (who some people believe is now bound)!!!
Floyd.

 

[Raeneske]

The Sabbath as we all know is Jewish. It is based on the Law given to Moses, and Genesis; and God's statement of rest.
Its application is basically Jewish (prior to John the Baptist), but is observed by Orthodox Jews (Pharisees) on Saturday.
The formation of the Roman Church eventually changed the observance for "Christians" to Sunday (ancient day of the sun; pagan worship).
The Protestants have followed suit, despite much argument and debate.
Recently, one Sunday, a Christian locally was seen on his roof doing repairs to his chimney. A neighbour shout to him, "why aren't you at church".
He replied, "Sunday is every day with me and my ilk, as also is Christmas day, it's inside me"!
A very interesting comment; as only God Almighty know the heart of us all!
The reply is true to "spiritual fact" and Truth of the Almighty's knowledge of His true people, but, does not satisfy the unsaved around us.
So; despite the irrelevance of the day known as "the Sabbath", as an act of witness (and ridicule) we attend church (or goup) on Sunday at present, to continue to "conform" to the mould imposed by Constantine!
It has its results; as did/does the corrupt Roman Church for 1400 years; despite its Babylonian teaching.
The Holy Spirit cannot be quenched in this Age, despite the best efforts of Satan (who some people believe is now bound)!!!

Floyd,

I disagree with your premise, declaring that "we all know" that the Sabbath is Jewish. According to the Scriptures, the Sabbath was made for man. It was not only for the Israelite, but also for the stranger.

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

How can the application of the one of the 10 commandments be "Jewish"? Can you explain this more please?

The Sabbath is not based on the Law given to Moses (Do you mean the 10 Commandments, or the Law of Moses?), but is based upon Genesis. God did not only rest upon the 7th Day in creation week, but He also set it apart for holy use.

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The Sabbath commandment had it's origin in Eden, not in the 10 Commandments.

The fourth commandment is not a suggestion, and then the others are commandments. If one is a suggestion, then all are suggestions. If one is a commandment, then all are commandments. It is the commandment of God that we are to keep holy the 7th Day Sabbath, set apart in Genesis.

God, being all knowing, wonderfully had the word "Remember" printed within the 4th Commandment, and it, being so plain, cannot be taken to mean "forget it" as many Christians tend to do with His Sabbath.

 

[RANDOR]

Here's a great book........TRUE STORY www.ChristAwaits.com

 

[Floyd]

Floyd,

I disagree with your premise, declaring that "we all know" that the Sabbath is Jewish. According to the Scriptures, the Sabbath was made for man. It was not only for the Israelite, but also for the stranger.

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

How can the application of the one of the 10 commandments be "Jewish"? Can you explain this more please?

The Sabbath is not based on the Law given to Moses (Do you mean the 10 Commandments, or the Law of Moses?), but is based upon Genesis. God did not only rest upon the 7th Day in creation week, but He also set it apart for holy use.

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The Sabbath commandment had it's origin in Eden, not in the 10 Commandments.

The fourth commandment is not a suggestion, and then the others are commandments. If one is a suggestion, then all are suggestions. If one is a commandment, then all are commandments. It is the commandment of God that we are to keep holy the 7th Day Sabbath, set apart in Genesis.

God, being all knowing, wonderfully had the word "Remember" printed within the 4th Commandment, and it, being so plain, cannot be taken to mean "forget it" as many Christians tend to do with His Sabbath.

Yes of course, your comments are right; however mine were concentrated on Constantine's change, and the point of "witness"; as opposed to reality of the inward man.
Floyd.

 

[James Forthwright]

How do you know that you are not already deceived and will soon be among the majority who worship in the counterfeit system? What is the difference between you and faithful Sunday-go-to-church-mid-week Bible student-witnessing Joey Bloggspot next door ?
Not saying you are, but how do you know you are not?

A very poignant question, Brakelight! It is rather curious that it's always "the other guys doctrine" that is errant. The Christians that disagree with us are spreading 'doctrines of demons' but our own personal interpretations and doctrinal stance are unequivocally synonymous with all that is true, righteous and spirit-filled.

Could it be we all have a tendency to be too quick to condemn and could mutually benefit from some careful personal introspection on many of our per-conceived doctrinal opinions?

What continues to baffle me is how so many Christians in this generation have so whole-heartedly embraced the modern state of Israel (and practically all things Jewish) even though many of their policies are ill-guided (to put it mildly) and they as a spiritually rebellious people/nation continue to reject Jesus Christ as the only one true Messiah?

It appears that the "Reformation" that is most needed at this time is a reformation of Protestantism itself!

 

[Floyd]

A very poignant question, Brakelight! It is rather curious that it's always "the other guys doctrine" that is errant. The Christians that disagree with us are spreading 'doctrines of demons' but our own personal interpretations and doctrinal stance are unequivocally synonymous with all that is true, righteous and spirit-filled.

Could it be we all have a tendency to be too quick to condemn and could mutually benefit from some careful personal introspection on many of our per-conceived doctrinal opinions?

What continues to baffle me is how so many Christians in this generation have so whole-heartedly embraced the modern state of Israel (and practically all things Jewish) even though many of their policies are ill-guided (to put it mildly) and they as a spiritually rebellious people/nation continue to reject Jesus Christ as the only one true Messiah?

It appears that the "Reformation" that is most needed at this time is a reformation of Protestantism itself!

Are you against Israel?
However; I agree that much is in need of change in Israel and Protestantism. this will happen when the events of the "Tribulation" are over; and IMO, not before!
There are many variations of belief in Christendom which divide us, but one is essential; the belief in the Deity of Christ Jesus; and His salvation offered to all mankind, which binds us together!

Floyd.





Floyd.