"He who practices righteousness is righteous" (1 John 3:7)

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
I would have to say that the contexts will show that Paul was not talking of his salvation. Even the figure he used to make his point speaks of competing for a prize. And that is not even close to what he preached about salvation and eternal life.

Tong
R2830
↑
What is the point of Paul that he was making in giving them the figure of one who runs to compete in a race in v.24-25? It’s not to be saved, for sure. He said he runs thus. And he does so obviously to get the reward, the prize. Is that referring to salvation as the prize? No.

To both of these I say, ***wishful thinking***

Now that was some refutation you have there.

Tong2020 said: ↑
So, you acknowledge there are so called Christians and there are true Christians. That’s good. Now perhaps you can address my question, which you haven’t done so:

”Will a true Christian reject Jesus Christ, Him whom he said he had sincerely and truly received, accepted, and believed in his heart? If one does reject Jesus after accepting him, what does that make him out to be? A liar? A hypocrite? A false believer? What?”

The point I would make about this is that there are those who believe that they are true Christians, and eternally secure, who do not have a living and saving faith in Jesus Christ.

So, the question is, how can we address their situation so that they will not place their trust in eternal security and so that they can be saved for that their false hope is taken away (so that they can replace it with a true and living hope?)

Well, I am not talking about any other so called Christians, but about true Christians. If you just honestly answer the simple questions I raised concerning true Christians then you would get the point and the truth regarding their salvation.

<<<So, the question is, how can we address their situation so that they will not place their trust in eternal security and so that they can be saved for that their false hope is taken away (so that they can replace it with a true and living hope?)>>>

We just have to do what we are supposed to do, preach the gospel of grace and Jesus Christ, in words and deeds. Show them the love of God. It is the Holy Spirit who convicts and converts.

Tong
R2839

 

[justbyfaith]

Now that was some refutation you have there.

I know it.

Well, I am not talking about any other so called Christians, but about true Christians. If you just honestly answer the simple questions I raised concerning true Christians then you would get the point and the truth regarding their salvation.

No one is disputing that true Christians who have a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14) can lose their salvation. They are sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5).

The point that I am making is that there are those who believe themselves to be true Christians who do not in fact have such a genuine faith.

Therefore, if you believe yourself to have genuine faith, and believe that you are a recipient of eternal security, I will say that your belief in that doctrine in no way makes you a recipient of the benefits of that doctrine.

This is why it is important that we never cease to give diligence to make our calling and election sure (2 Peter 1:10, Philippians 2:12, 2 Corinthians 13:5).

Because if your faith is merely nominal, lukewarm, or shallow, you can fall away in a time of temptation (Luke 8:13) or be "cut off" for not continuing in the goodness of the Lord (Romans 11:20-22).

And if your faith is of this latter kind, you may actually believe that it is of the former kind; and you just might think that you are eternally secure when in fact you are not as secure as you think you are.

 

[HIM]

Do you see anything about getting save there? I see none. What is there to see os Paul’s doing about the work that Jesus Christ had commanded him to do, that is, preach the gospel.

What is the point of Paul that he was making in giving them the figure of one who runs to compete in a race in v.24-25? It’s not to be saved, for sure. He said he runs thus. And he does so obviously to get the reward, the prize. Is that referring to salvation as the prize? No. For he was not taking about salvation there but about his preaching the gospel.

Some confuse the fear of disqualification in v27 with the fear of damnation. Paul had no fear that he would lose his salvation (Read what Paul had written in Rom. 8:1, 29-39). In the context, what he could lose would be an imperishable reward, but not his salvation.

Tong
R2832

Yes verse 23, He says he does the things mentioned before for the Gospel's sake that he might be a partaker, a sharer, a co-participant with them. In speaking about being a co-participate he begins to parallel it with running a race in vs.24 Then in vs. 25 he says run all, give it everything you got that ye might obtain. Obtain what? The prize.
What Prize?
The context brings us back to verse 23 where Paul wrote that He does what He does for the Gospel's sake, that He might be a partaker with them. Interesting enough the words "with you" are not in the Greek text. Just the Greek word that mean co participate.

The prize would be the partaking that he will do as a partaker. This partaking is the incorruptible Crown that He mentions in Vs 25. In vs 26 and 27 he says that he fights in his running not as one who beats the air, as if doing nothing. But he brings himself in subjection lest by any means when he has preached to others he himself should a castaway, rejected, unapproved, not be a partaker, not receive the incorruptible Crown.

1Cor 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
1Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1Cor 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Cor 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Well, I am not talking about any other so called Christians, but about true Christians. If you just honestly answer the simple questions I raised concerning true Christians then you would get the point and the truth regarding their salvation.

No one is disputing that true Christians who have a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14) can lose their salvation. They are sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5).

The point that I am making is that there are those who believe themselves to be true Christians who do not in fact have such a genuine faith.

Therefore, if you believe yourself to have genuine faith, and believe that you are a recipient of eternal security, I will say that your belief in that doctrine in no way makes you a recipient of the benefits of that doctrine.

This is why it is important that we never cease to give diligence to make our calling and election sure (2 Peter 1:10, Philippians 2:12, 2 Corinthians 13:5).

Because if your faith is merely nominal, lukewarm, or shallow, you can fall away in a time of temptation (Luke 8:13) or be "cut off" for not continuing in the goodness of the Lord (Romans 11:20-22).

And if your faith is of this latter kind, you may actually believe that it is of the former kind; and you just might think that you are eternally secure when in fact you are not as secure as you think you are.

<<<No one is disputing that true Christians who have a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14) can lose their salvation. They are sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5).>>>

And so my point and argument stands. True Christians’ salvation is sure and certain. They have assurance of salvation.

<<<The point that I am making is that there are those who believe themselves to be true Christians who do not in fact have such a genuine faith.>>>

Yes, there are.

<<<Therefore, if you believe yourself to have genuine faith, and believe that you are a recipient of eternal security, I will say that your belief in that doctrine in no way makes you a recipient of the benefits of that doctrine.>>>

I agree.

<<<This is why it is important that we never cease to give diligence to make our calling and election sure.>>>

Yes. It is good and is a gesture of affection and love, which supports and encourages and strengthens one who is passing through difficult times, experiencing sufferings and persecutions for the name of Christ.

And while there are exhortations and encouragement and reminder such as those, that does not take away the truth that the true Christians have assurance and security of salvation. For the true Christians naturally continues and endures everyday of their faithful life to the end.

Tong
R2841

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Do you see anything about getting save there? I see none. What is there to see os Paul’s doing about the work that Jesus Christ had commanded him to do, that is, preach the gospel.

What is the point of Paul that he was making in giving them the figure of one who runs to compete in a race in v.24-25? It’s not to be saved, for sure. He said he runs thus. And he does so obviously to get the reward, the prize. Is that referring to salvation as the prize? No. For he was not taking about salvation there but about his preaching the gospel.

Some confuse the fear of disqualification in v27 with the fear of damnation. Paul had no fear that he would lose his salvation (Read what Paul had written in Rom. 8:1, 29-39). In the context, what he could lose would be an imperishable reward, but not his salvation.

Yes verse 23, He says he does the things mentioned before for the Gospel's sake that he might be a partaker, a sharer, a co-participant with them. In speaking about being a co-participate he begins to parallel it with running a race in vs.24 Then in vs. 25 he says run all, give it everything you got that ye might obtain. Obtain what? The prize.
What Prize?
The context brings us back to verse 23 where Paul wrote that He does what He does for the Gospel's sake, that He might be a partaker with them. Interesting enough the words "with you" are not in the Greek text. Just the Greek word that mean co participate.

The prize would be the partaking that he will do as a partaker. This partaking is the incorruptible Crown that He mentions in Vs 25. In vs 26 and 27 he says that he fights in his running not as one who beats the air, as if doing nothing. But he brings himself in subjection lest by any means when he has preached to others he himself should a castaway, rejected, unapproved, not be a partaker, not receive the incorruptible Crown.

1Cor 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
1Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1Cor 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Cor 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

<<<Yes verse 23, He says he does the things mentioned before for the Gospel's sake that he might be a partaker, a sharer, a co-participant with them.>>>

23Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you.

It’s not that Paul might be a partaker, for Paul is already much of a partaker. But that he did those things for the gospel’s sake for he wants them to be partakers as well. Paul wants to share his partaking with them, that he did the things he mentioned in v. 19-22.

In the rest of your post, you seem to make salvation and eternal life as the prize, even while Scriptures tell us that salvation isn’t some kind of a reward or wage, but is a gift.

Tong
R2842

 

[justbyfaith]

<<<No one is disputing that true Christians who have a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14) can lose their salvation. They are sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5).>>>

And so my point and argument stands. True Christians’ salvation is sure and certain. They have assurance of salvation.

<<<The point that I am making is that there are those who believe themselves to be true Christians who do not in fact have such a genuine faith.>>>

Yes, there are.

<<<Therefore, if you believe yourself to have genuine faith, and believe that you are a recipient of eternal security, I will say that your belief in that doctrine in no way makes you a recipient of the benefits of that doctrine.>>>

I agree.

<<<This is why it is important that we never cease to give diligence to make our calling and election sure.>>>

Yes. It is good and is a gesture of affection and love, which supports and encourages and strengthens one who is passing through difficult times, experiencing sufferings and persecutions for the name of Christ.

And while there are exhortations and encouragement and reminder such as those, that does not take away the truth that the true Christians have assurance and security of salvation. For the true Christians naturally continues and endures everyday of their faithful life to the end.

Tong
R2841

We appear then to be in agreement; at least on this issue.

 

[HIM]

In verse 23, He says he does the things mentioned before for the Gospel's sake that he might be a partaker, a sharer, a co-participant with them. In speaking about being a co-participate he begins to parallel it with running a race in vs.24 Then in vs. 25 he says run all, give it everything you got that ye might obtain. Obtain what? The prize.
What Prize?
The context brings us back to verse 23 where Paul wrote that He does what He does for the Gospel's sake, that He might be a partaker with them. Interesting enough the words "with you" are not in the Greek text. Just the Greek word that mean co participate.

The prize would be the partaking that he will do as a partaker. This partaking is the incorruptible Crown that He mentions in Vs 25. In vs 26 and 27 he says that he fights in his running not as one who beats the air, as if doing nothing. But he brings himself in subjection lest by any means when he has preached to others he himself should a castaway, rejected, unapproved, not be a partaker, not receive the incorruptible Crown.

1Cor 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
1Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1Cor 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Cor 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

<<<Yes verse 23, He says he does the things mentioned before for the Gospel's sake that he might be a partaker, a sharer, a co-participant with them.>>>

23Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you.

It’s not that Paul might be a partaker, for Paul is already much of a partaker.

All of verse 23 is being spoken in the first person singular in the Greek text. Paul is speaking strictly about himself being a participant. As was said in the post you quoted, " the words "with you" are not in the Greek text. Just the Greek word that mean co participate." Couple that with the FACT that the text in the Greek is only being spoken in the first person one would have to twist the text to say what you are trying to make it say. Because It literally reads
1Cor 9:23 AND I DO THIS FOR SAKE OF THE GOOD NEWS SO THAT I MIGHT BECOME FELLOW PARTICIPANT OF IT

Please re-read what was shared with you above my friend and also consider the fact that the context of this discourse that Paul is given continues in Chapter ten. We know this because it begins with the word "therefore". So with what Paul shares here in chapter 9 he states,

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Cor 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Why give a admonition, a warning which included examples of people being destroyed for not living according to God's plan through Christ if it did not matter?

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<No one is disputing that true Christians who have a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14) can lose their salvation. They are sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5).>>>

And so my point and argument stands. True Christians’ salvation is sure and certain. They have assurance of salvation.

<<<The point that I am making is that there are those who believe themselves to be true Christians who do not in fact have such a genuine faith.>>>

Yes, there are.

<<<Therefore, if you believe yourself to have genuine faith, and believe that you are a recipient of eternal security, I will say that your belief in that doctrine in no way makes you a recipient of the benefits of that doctrine.>>>

I agree.

<<<This is why it is important that we never cease to give diligence to make our calling and election sure.>>>

Yes. It is good and is a gesture of affection and love, which supports and encourages and strengthens one who is passing through difficult times, experiencing sufferings and persecutions for the name of Christ.

And while there are exhortations and encouragement and reminder such as those, that does not take away the truth that the true Christians have assurance and security of salvation. For the true Christians naturally continues and endures everyday of their faithful life to the end.

We appear then to be in agreement; at least on this issue.

Glory and thanks be to God!
Tong
R2845

 

[Tong2020]

All of verse 23 is being spoken in the first person singular in the Greek text. Paul is speaking strictly about himself being a participant. As was said in the post you quoted, " the words "with you" are not in the Greek text. Just the Greek word that mean co participate." Couple that with the FACT that the text in the Greek is only being spoken in the first person one would have to twist the text to say what you are trying to make it say. Because It literally reads
1Cor 9:23 AND I DO THIS FOR SAKE OF THE GOOD NEWS SO THAT I MIGHT BECOME FELLOW PARTICIPANT OF IT

Please re-read what was shared with you above my friend and also consider the fact that the context of this discourse that Paul is given continues in Chapter ten. We know this because it begins with the word "therefore". So with what Paul shares here in chapter 9 he states,

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Cor 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Why give a admonition, a warning which included examples of people being destroyed for not living according to God's plan through Christ if it did not matter?

Just think about it for a moment. Before Paul did what He said he did for the gospel, was he already a partaker or not? Was he already saved or not?

Take that fact in your reading of that part of scriptures and try to consider what Paul was wanting to point of to them. There is an issue that Paul was trying to address there, and it’s not his salvation. It has to do with his being a worker of God, his being an apostle, his work of preaching the gospel. His doing about his ministry even in the manner he just told them in that passage, is not so he would be a fellow partaker (for so he is already a partaker, even an apostle) but so to win many for Christ and that he may have fellowship with those he wins over to Christ, in their case, them.

Also, as I pointed out, the prize Paul was after was not his salvation, for he already have that. And that salvation is no wage or reward or prize that one could earn or work for or run as in a race to win it. It is a gift. Besides, in the metaphor of the games (running a race), there is only one among many runners who win the prize.

Tong
R2846

 

[HIM]

Just think about it for a moment. Before Paul did what He said he did for the gospel, was he already a partaker or not? Was he already saved or not?

Take that fact in your reading of that part of scriptures and try to consider what Paul was wanting to point of to them. There is an issue that Paul was trying to address there, and it’s not his salvation. It has to do with his being a worker of God, his being an apostle, his work of preaching the gospel. His doing about his ministry even in the manner he just told them in that passage, is not so he would be a fellow partaker (for so he is already a partaker, even an apostle) but so to win many for Christ and that he may have fellowship with those he wins over to Christ, in their case, them.

Also, as I pointed out, the prize Paul was after was not his salvation, for he already have that. And that salvation is no wage or reward or prize that one could earn or work for or run as in a race to win it. It is a gift. Besides, in the metaphor of the games (running a race), there is only one among many runners who win the prize.

Tong
R2846

The thing is what is being shown to you here is what the verses say when the grammar and context is considered as a whole, So regardless of any preconceived notion or idea in respect to DOCTRINE we must take the text to mean what it says. These are facts being shown to you not conjecture. He is using prize allegorically in respect to salvation. Salvation starts with Christ through which God's commandment are in the heart and mind, His word in our hearts and mouths. We are a New Creation in Christ through Christ. If we are not moving according to His working in us to will and do His good pleasure we are not experiencing salvation now and will not experience it in Heaven. So please re-read the following because what you are doing is posting what you think because of what you already thought and are not proving your point within the context and grammar of the passage.

"In verse 23, He says he does the things mentioned before for the Gospel's sake that he might be a partaker, a sharer, a co-participant with them. In speaking about being a co-participate he begins to parallel it with running a race in vs.24 Then in vs. 25 he says run all, give it everything you got that ye might obtain. Obtain what? The prize.
What Prize?
The context brings us back to verse 23 where Paul wrote that He does what He does for the Gospel's sake, that He might be a partaker with them. Interesting enough the words "with you" are not in the Greek text. Just the Greek word that mean co participate.

The prize would be the partaking that he will do as a partaker. This partaking is the incorruptible Crown that He mentions in Vs 25. In vs 26 and 27 he says that he fights in his running not as one who beats the air, as if doing nothing. But he brings himself in subjection lest by any means when he has preached to others he himself should a castaway, rejected, unapproved, not be a partaker, not receive the incorruptible Crown.

1Cor 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
1Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1Cor 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Cor 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. All of verse 23 is being spoken in the first person singular in the Greek text. Paul is speaking strictly about himself being a participant. As was said in the post you quoted, " the words "with you" are not in the Greek text. Just the Greek word that mean co participate." Couple that with the FACT that the text in the Greek is only being spoken in the first person one would have to twist the text to say what you are trying to make it say. Because It literally reads
1Cor 9:23 AND I DO THIS FOR SAKE OF THE GOOD NEWS SO THAT I MIGHT BECOME FELLOW PARTICIPANT OF IT

Also consider the fact that the context of this discourse that Paul is given continues in Chapter ten. We know this because it begins with the word "therefore". So with what Paul shares here in chapter 9 he states,

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Cor 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Why give a admonition, a warning which included examples of people being destroyed for not living according to God's plan through Christ if it did not matter?"

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Just think about it for a moment. Before Paul did what He said he did for the gospel, was he already a partaker or not? Was he already saved or not?

Take that fact in your reading of that part of scriptures and try to consider what Paul was wanting to point of to them. There is an issue that Paul was trying to address there, and it’s not his salvation. It has to do with his being a worker of God, his being an apostle, his work of preaching the gospel. His doing about his ministry even in the manner he just told them in that passage, is not so he would be a fellow partaker (for so he is already a partaker, even an apostle) but so to win many for Christ and that he may have fellowship with those he wins over to Christ, in their case, them.

Also, as I pointed out, the prize Paul was after was not his salvation, for he already have that. And that salvation is no wage or reward or prize that one could earn or work for or run as in a race to win it. It is a gift. Besides, in the metaphor of the games (running a race), there is only one among many runners who win the prize.

The thing is what is being shown to you here is what the verses say when the grammar and context is considered as a whole, So regardless of any preconceived notion or idea in respect to DOCTRINE we must take the text to mean what it says. These are facts being shown to you not conjecture. He is using prize allegorically in respect to salvation. Salvation starts with Christ through which God's commandment are in the heart and mind, His word in our hearts and mouths. We are a New Creation in Christ through Christ. If we are not moving according to His working in us to will and do His good pleasure we are not experiencing salvation now and will not experience it in Heaven. So please re-read the following because what you are doing is posting what you think because of what you already thought and are not proving your point within the context and grammar of the passage.

"In verse 23, He says he does the things mentioned before for the Gospel's sake that he might be a partaker, a sharer, a co-participant with them. In speaking about being a co-participate he begins to parallel it with running a race in vs.24 Then in vs. 25 he says run all, give it everything you got that ye might obtain. Obtain what? The prize.
What Prize?
The context brings us back to verse 23 where Paul wrote that He does what He does for the Gospel's sake, that He might be a partaker with them. Interesting enough the words "with you" are not in the Greek text. Just the Greek word that mean co participate.

The prize would be the partaking that he will do as a partaker. This partaking is the incorruptible Crown that He mentions in Vs 25. In vs 26 and 27 he says that he fights in his running not as one who beats the air, as if doing nothing. But he brings himself in subjection lest by any means when he has preached to others he himself should a castaway, rejected, unapproved, not be a partaker, not receive the incorruptible Crown.

1Cor 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
1Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1Cor 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Cor 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. All of verse 23 is being spoken in the first person singular in the Greek text. Paul is speaking strictly about himself being a participant. As was said in the post you quoted, " the words "with you" are not in the Greek text. Just the Greek word that mean co participate." Couple that with the FACT that the text in the Greek is only being spoken in the first person one would have to twist the text to say what you are trying to make it say. Because It literally reads
1Cor 9:23 AND I DO THIS FOR SAKE OF THE GOOD NEWS SO THAT I MIGHT BECOME FELLOW PARTICIPANT OF IT

Also consider the fact that the context of this discourse that Paul is given continues in Chapter ten. We know this because it begins with the word "therefore". So with what Paul shares here in chapter 9 he states,

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Cor 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Why give a admonition, a warning which included examples of people being destroyed for not living according to God's plan through Christ if it did not matter?"

I said what my reading is. And I did not read in a preconceived idea as you think. I told you what mu reading was.

I guess we let the Holy Spirit work in us in the coming days. For now, you believe that you have to run like in a race to attain your prize of salvation. While I on the other hand have attained it through faith in Jesus Christ and I will go on strive to do all things for the glory of God.

Tong
R2851

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ron, the verse in Hebrews is like people being saved, it is not progressive. It is becoming a Christian, as opposed to a nonbeliever.

You are simply wring! Grammatically, linguistically and most important, biblically.

Being sinless is not being perfect.

WOW ! changing definitions is unbecoming of you!

I'm not perfect, but I'm closer than I was 44 years ago. LOL But I never do anything against my conscience, so I do enjoy sinlessness and I do receive everything God tells me to pray for, so 100% of my prayers are answered.

Every believer has 100% of their prayers answered! I am not perfect, and I am closer than I was 46 years ago as well. Maybe parts of your conscience has been seared by a hot iron then. You claim sinlessness for 44 years.

My God demands righteousness, but gives us all the tools and also His Spirit to accomplish it. That is love. A god like you are describing, demands holiness, but leaves you desiring sin. That is not my God.

Bearing false witness against my words is sin- you just blew your streak! If this is your definition of righteousness is: then you do not know what Christian righteousness is.

So you never are tempted even a teensy weensy bit? OUr flesh will always desire sin! that is SCripture. Well your god doesn't align with the biblical description of God so I wonder. Anyone who teaches that if a Christian willfully sins after they have been born again loses their salvation as you have explicitly declared, is preaching another gospel from another Jesus!

Let me explain something further. There are two types of sin. 1 John 5:16-17. One makes you an unsaved sinner. The other a saved child of God can commit, but we are instructed to forgive others for that same type of sin against us.

Sins unto death = willful sins of lawlessness (1 John 3:4)
Sins not unto death - trespasses (Matthew 5:23-25; Matthew 6:14-15; 1 John 2:1; 1 John 1:7)

You willful sins of lawlessness is you adding to the Scripture. Scripture does declare all sins are lawlessness and Scripture also declared Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to them that believe.

And if you weren't so busy crowing about how sinless you are, you would realize that trespasses ans 1 JOhn 3:4 are the exact same words in the Greek, but that would require extra effort on your part.

No, God gives me the overwhelming desire to be like Jesus. Jesus was sinless, and was the firstborn of many brethren. I'm so sorry if I gave you any impression that God was a tyrant. Don't you know it is for our own good to do righteousness, than to fornicate and end up pregnant or with an STD? If you think a loving parent doesn't want to save you from misery, that is abuse.

As he gives me the same desire as He does with all His children. But you have an unforgiving tyrannical God who will tolerate sins in the oT and let those people still be saved, but Once He has wooed, called, translated a person from the kingdom of darkness to His kingdom, if they commit a lawless sin (all sins are lawless) you declare He kicks them out! That is not the god of the Bible.

Yes I hate sin. I hate being tempted, I hate doint the very things that Jesus already died and paid for. I burn to live righteously!

You have Jesus not forgiving all sins, just some sins and that is blasphemy!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Personally, I know that I don't have to be perfect to be accepted in the Beloved. My sins are covered by the blood of Jesus Christ. However, as one who has lived a Romans 7:14-25 lifestyle as a Christian, I have become discontented with living such a lifestyle (Romans 7:24) and therefore the doctrine of entire sanctification strikes me as being "good news" because when I do sin, I become afflicted in my conscience.

But because I walk in the light as He is in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses me of all sin as I confess my sins. When the Holy Spirit pinpoints sin to my awareness, I do not deny that it is sin (1 John 1:8). But I also know that the moment I confess it, I am cleansed from that unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).

See all this I agree with. what is the lie is that you said you commit no "known" sins, but all your sins are "oops" I didn't know that was sin.

But we all walk in the light! You just believe in an unmerciful god who will kick you out for one willful sin. That means according to you that Jesus did not die for all your sins, just some of them. For one willful sin after saved according to your gospel, and a believer is no longer a believer! that is an unmerciful, mean spirited, tyrant that is not the god of the bible.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Every believer has 100% of their prayers answered!

"No" is not receiving what you prayed for. I receive the truth of the actual meaning of scripture, not human reasoning.

WOW ! changing definitions is unbecoming of you!

Knowing what perfection is is not changing a definition. It seems you believe it is sinlessness. I don't teach that because Jesus makes us sinless when He justified us at the beginning from all unrighteousness done in the past. We are no longer bound to sin, and are free to chose. Why anyone would want to chose Satan and sin again is ludicrous. Perfection is when you no longer stumble because of immature fruit of the Spirit. Look at 2 Peter 1:5-7. After coming to Jesus by faith is virtue! That is sinlessness given to us by Jesus when He gives us His Spirit. Then if you know the fruit of the Spirit the rest are the maturing of them, and the last fruit to be perfected is love.

Bearing false witness against my words is sin- you just blew your streak! If this is your definition of righteousness is: then you do not know what Christian righteousness is.

No I didn't. What you described is not the God of the Bible.

You willful sins of lawlessness is you adding to the Scripture. Scripture does declare all sins are lawlessness and Scripture also declared Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to them that believe.

And if you weren't so busy crowing about how sinless you are, you would realize that trespasses ans 1 JOhn 3:4 are the exact same words in the Greek, but that would require extra effort on your part.

This is really getting funny, if ignorance can be called funny.

Lawlessness has to do with the laws of God. Break those and it is not only willful and rebellious, it is worthy of death. Numbers 15:30-36; 1 John 5:16-17. Trespasses are also sins, Leviticus 5:15, thus the same word in Greek you were crowing about, but does not mean it is breaking any written law that we KNOW. God is perfect. So any imperfection from the greatest to the least is falling short of God's perfection. The Spirit makes it impossible to us to commit murder, or bear false witness, or steal, or commit adultery without us first quenching the Spirit. That is why we are commanded to not quench the Spirit. We still have free will, but we can choose to walk in the Spirit continuously, and not quench the Spirit when temptations come our way. God always gives us a way of escape.

As he gives me the same desire as He does with all His children. But you have an unforgiving tyrannical God who will tolerate sins in the oT and let those people still be saved, but Once He has wooed, called, translated a person from the kingdom of darkness to His kingdom, if they commit a lawless sin (all sins are lawless) you declare He kicks them out! That is not the god of the Bible.

Yes I hate sin. I hate being tempted, I hate doint the very things that Jesus already died and paid for. I burn to live righteously!

You have Jesus not forgiving all sins, just some sins and that is blasphemy!

I'm glad you hate sin. But I do find it mind boggling that you cannot agree that God is Holy, and before Jesus, overlooked the sins committed in the past by those Jews who were imperfectly, but trying, to keep His laws with their unchanged carnal nature. Romans 3:25. The difference in the two covenants is the POWER of Jesus to take away our sin by giving us a new nature filled with His Spirit that hates sin, and not just covers sin up like in the Old Covenant by the blood of bulls and goats.

Don't you know that because God has given us His Spirit, much more is demanded of us to keep His laws in the present and future. With the power given us in the Law of Liberty, we have no excuse to fail when we don't have to. You now have power over the old nature to not yield to it. You can always choose the new nature's leading to righteousness, and live a free from sin life.

Ron, you may hate me, but like Paul and his boasting of what God did for him, I too boast in the Lord. I'm amazed at His power to change me from the horrid woman I used to be. I'm not proud of her, but I am proud that God is now my Father, and my Husband. It has nothing to do with any virtue inherent in me that I was born with, but NOW I love who I became through Him. And I praise Him for the power to finally be clean after 30 years of being in church and hating myself before becoming born again and filled with the Spirit.

 

[Daniel Veler]

The righteous practices righteousness.

Who are the righteous? They are those born of God.

Tong
R2771

The question was asked concerning the righteousness of God. In John it is written


8 "When he comes, he will show that the world is wrong about sin, about righteousness and about judgment -- 9 about sin, in that people don't put their trust in me; 10 about righteousness, in that I am going to the Father and you will no longer see me; 11 about judgment, in that the ruler of this world has been judged.


Romans 1:17 For in it is revealed how God makes people righteous in his sight; and from beginning to end it is through trust - as the Tanakh puts it, "But the person who is righteous will live his life by trust."

 

[Ronald Nolette]

"No" is not receiving what you prayed for. I receive the truth of the actual meaning of scripture, not human reasoning.

Well many times we receive a no for we pray amiss or we pray for something ultimately harmful. I know you don't get everything you pray for. You know that as well.

Knowing what perfection is is not changing a definition. It seems you believe it is sinlessness. I don't teach that because Jesus makes us sinless when He justified us at the beginning from all unrighteousness done in the past. We are no longer bound to sin, and are free to chose. Why anyone would want to chose Satan and sin again is ludicrous. Perfection is when you no longer stumble because of immature fruit of the Spirit. Look at 2 Peter 1:5-7. After coming to Jesus by faith is virtue! That is sinlessness given to us by Jesus when He gives us His Spirit. Then if you know the fruit of the Spirit the rest are the maturing of them, and the last fruit to be perfected is love.

Well you believe in sinlessness and not perfection while the bible teaches we are perfected but not sinless. The flesh is always the flesh and will never change and human beings who are saved sometimes choose the flesh. It is not choosing Satan- that thought is what is ludicrous.

Jesus makes us perfect, not sinless. Believers then can choose dailyi to remain in that state. If they fail they still have full forgiveness from a loving Father- not the threat you declare of being kicked out of the kingdom- that is choosing Satan to believe that lie!

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

"Immature fruit" is a misnomer. We are to add these things which some are fruits of the Spirit and some are growth things. when we live in the new man or the spirit- we manifest all these.

You promote a God who will forgive all sins of the pat but screw up once and you are lost forever--that is not the God of the bible.

Lawlessness has to do with the laws of God. Break those and it is not only willful and rebellious, it is worthy of death. Numbers 15:30-36; 1 John 5:16-17. Trespasses are also sins, Leviticus 5:15, thus the same word in Greek you were crowing about, but does not mean it is breaking any written law that we KNOW. God is perfect. So any imperfection from the greatest to the least is falling short of God's perfection. The Spirit makes it impossible to us to commit murder, or bear false witness, or steal, or commit adultery without us first quenching the Spirit. That is why we are commanded to not quench the Spirit. We still have free will, but we can choose to walk in the Spirit continuously, and not quench the Spirit when temptations come our way. God always gives us a way of escape.

And you refuse to accept the Word of God as written for some cock eyed false definition! lawlessness and trespasses from the verses you quote are both the exact same word in the inspired original language! Maybe you can convince the unlearned, but I have spent 436 years ion Gods Word so I know what you peddle is a lie.

All sin is lawless for sin is a transgression of the law! And Christ is the end of the law for those who believe and where there is no law, there is no sin! God does not see sin in the lives of His children- He put all of them past, present and future on Jesus and punished Him on our behalf! this is what gods' Inspired word teaches. You are ignorant of the fact that within you- that is your human nature lies no good thing. You ignore all the verses of the much more care of God now that we are justified and perfected!

Any harm we experience from sin is not because god is mad at us, but God is allowing us to experience the consequence of sin to teach us! Sorry about your god and His unforgiving nature you believe He holds to those whom He saved and sealed with the Spirit.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Well many times we receive a no for we pray amiss or we pray for something ultimately harmful. I know you don't get everything you pray for. You know that as well.

When God hears "His will" He answers. When God doesn't hear "His will" He isn't listening.

 

[CharismaticLady]

It is not choosing Satan- that thought is what is ludicrous.

Romans 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

1 John 3:8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Romans 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

1 John 3:8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Now understand that these verses do not mean succumbing to weakness or giving into temptation.

I am sorry but you serve a very unmerciful, unforgiving, cruel caricature of the one true god who hates sin but is merciful to His Children. In this age of grace and holiness and mercy, you have God far less forgiving than He was in the OT.

Truly saddened for yourwarped view of who God really is. You say He will love until you screw up willingly once- then you are fried! This is not God but a Satanic hallucination of god.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

When God hears "His will" He answers. When God doesn't hear "His will" He isn't listening.

Well maybe according to teh Word of charismatic lady, but not according to the Word of God! God hears and listens to all and He does answer no. Either because it is a good thing but not for you or because one asks amiss.

To say you always get your prayers answered is hubris and arrogance. Course you can't [prove it so it is easy to say so you can hold your lofty opinion of yourself.