Hell as the default for humankind?

[St. SteVen]

The Plan?
- Create humankind in your own image.
- Give them free-will to choose.
- Pay their sin debt.
- Send them to Hell for not accepting a free gift.

What's wrong with this picture?

[

 

[Bob]

Thanks for the provocative posting.

Perhaps the logical conclusions are (a) nothing wrong at all, and (b) good Christians should be preaching the gospel whenever an opportunity presents itself, in order to save as many souls as possible from Hell.

Blessings.

 

[MatthewG]

Hell is over with according to the bible.

Many people continue to promote that it is still there, but according to the Bible, there is an outside of the Kingdom, and inside of the Kingdom of God.

Faithful, or remain faithless, you'll end up in one place or the other.

 

[Bob]

Thank you for your post.

Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

Matthew 5:29
If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.

Etc. Also references in Mark and Luke.

Not seeing any references to inside and outside the Kingdom.

Peace.

 

[Lambano]

What's wrong with this picture?

The part about creating humankind. Big mistake.

5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” Genesis 6:5-7

 

[St. SteVen]

Not seeing any references to inside and outside the Kingdom.

The Kingdom is not limited to this world.

[

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Plan?
- Create humankind in your own image.
- Give them free-will to choose.
- Pay their sin debt.
- Send them to Hell for not accepting a free gift.

What's wrong with this picture?

[

Mankind's ego and stubbornness to submit to God!

 

[St. SteVen]

Mankind's ego and stubbornness to submit to God!

How does that look from the POV of the common human?

[

 

[Jericho]

The Plan?
- Create humankind in your own image.
- Give them free-will to choose.
- Pay their sin debt.
- Send them to Hell for not accepting a free gift.

What's wrong with this picture?

Counter-Questions:

Was hell originally created for humans?
Short answer, no. It was created for Satan and his fallen angels.

Was hell the default for humanity before their fall?
No.

Is hell the default for humanity after the fall?
Yes, but God has provided a way out.

Is hell a terrible place because God made it terrible, or is it a terrible place because God is not there?
I think it's the latter. Even this fallen world is not totally devoid of God's goodness. What if you remove God totally from the equation? Can people still be good? Or would they become like demons, devoid of any good and incapable of redemption? I think God is the glue that holds everything together, and without Him, there is no good in us.

Does everyone want to be saved and spend eternity with God?
I don't believe so, and if you forced them into heaven, would our heaven end up being their hell? I think it would. And would God want to spend an eternity with someone who doesn't want to spend an eternity with Him? I know I wouldn't. Also, could those who rejected God coexist peacefully for eternity with those who freely accept God? We can't even coexist peacefully on earth.

What should God do with those who reject Him?
The only solution is to give them their own place. But what if God gave them a heaven of their own? Would it turn into hell without God? What if for those who have rejected God, hell is their heaven? They are given what they want: eternal separation from God and freedom from any restraints. What then if the flames of hell are not (just) a punishment but a means to restrain their evil (against each other)?

Food for thought.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

How does that look from the POV of the common human?

[

Well it is fact, so how the common human views it is kind of an irrelevancy. I am sure most people dislike it very much, but truth is truth whether we like it or not.

 

[Exegesis]

The Plan?
- Create humankind in your own image.
- Give them free-will to choose.
- Pay their sin debt.
- Send them to Hell for not accepting a free gift.

What's wrong with this picture?

[

Nothing is wrong with what you wrote.

 

[Deborah_]

What's wrong with this picture?

- Send them to Hell for not accepting a free gift.

You make it sound as though God is throwing a hissy fit because some people reject His love.

God gave us (mankind) free will to choose - and we (mankind) chose to rebel against Him, trash His creation and murder His Son. This is why people go to Hell - not because God wants to send them there (quite the reverse - He "wants all people to be saved" (I Timothy 2:4)), but because they have chosen to follow the devil and that's where he ends up.

We were heading for Hell before God launched His rescue mission. If we don't want to be helped, how is that God's fault?

 

[St. SteVen]

Nothing is wrong with what you wrote.

--- PARODY ---

Person #1: Receive the free gift of eternal life.
Person #2: No thanks.
Person #1: I said it was free.
Person #2: There must be some strings attached.
Person #1: Well, of course.
Person #2: It's not a free gift then, right?
Person #1: You had better take it... or else!
Person #2: Say what?
Person #1: Otherwise you will be incinerated!
Person #2: What sort of free gift is that?

Indeed.

]

 

[St. SteVen]

You make it sound as though God is throwing a hissy fit because some people reject His love.

How would you describe it?

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Was hell originally created for humans?
Short answer, no. It was created for Satan and his fallen angels.

Why would God send humans there then?

Was hell the default for humanity before their fall?
No.

Did God see the Fall coming. He's omniscient, right?

Is hell the default for humanity after the fall?
Yes, but God has provided a way out.

Not everyone has heard.
Countless billions have gone to the afterlife with no knowledge of it.

Is hell a terrible place because God made it terrible, or is it a terrible place because God is not there?
I think it's the latter. Even this fallen world is not totally devoid of God's goodness. What if you remove God totally from the equation? Can people still be good? Or would they become like demons, devoid of any good and incapable of redemption? I think God is the glue that holds everything together, and without Him, there is no good in us.

I think being thrown into a volcano would be bad whether God was there or not.
It might be worse if He was there.

Does everyone want to be saved and spend eternity with God?
I don't believe so, and if you forced them into heaven, would our heaven end up being their hell? I think it would. And would God want to spend an eternity with someone who doesn't want to spend an eternity with Him? I know I wouldn't. Also, could those who rejected God coexist peacefully for eternity with those who freely accept God? We can't even coexist peacefully on earth.

Anyone who doesn't love God hasn't met Him yet.

What should God do with those who reject Him?
The only solution is to give them their own place. But what if God gave them a heaven of their own? Would it turn into hell without God? What if for those who have rejected God, hell is their heaven? They are given what they want: eternal separation from God and freedom from any restraints. What then if the flames of hell are not (just) a punishment but a means to restrain their evil (against each other)?

Not everyone has rejected Him. Even the Apostle Peter rejected Christ at one time.
He turned out alright. - LOL

[

 

[Hiddenthings]

The Plan?
- Create humankind in your own image.
- Give them free-will to choose.
- Pay their sin debt.
- Send them to Hell for not accepting a free gift.

What's wrong with this picture?

[

I will assume hell to mean the grave.

It's the cost of creation principle.

That cost involved the suffering and death of His Son and then all those who are not called or chosen.

OPs like this one usually result in the author wanting to play God.

 

[Exegesis]

--- PARODY ---

But it's not parody if they're saved in the end right? It's just that one person may spend more time in the crucible than the other?

 

[St. SteVen]

That cost involved the suffering and death of His Son and then all those who are not called or chosen.

Meaning that God predestined those who were not His Elect to hell?

[

 

[St. SteVen]

But it's not parody if they're saved in the end right?

From my POV, yes.
But that's not the standard view. Thus the PARODY.

It's just that one person may spend more time in the crucible than the other?

I don't view it as punishment, but rather as correction and restoration.
The bad stuff burns away. The good stuff earns rewards.

[

 

[Hiddenthings]

Meaning that God predestined those who were not His Elect to hell?

[

This means that, in His foreknowledge, long before He established this age, God knew that many would neither choose Him nor even come to know Him. I understand this can make some uncomfortable, but if He foresees His segulah (treasured) people, who are we to question His omniscience?