Help with John 12:32

[David Lamb]

A Calvinist looks at the New Testament, and sees "Calvinism".

A Chrisitan who is not a TULIP person, looks at the bible, and does not SEE Calvinism.

And here is something to consider.

A Christian leads people to Christ.

A Calvinist tries to lead people (Christian or not) To CALVINISM.

That is not of God, as God never called anyone to Identify themselves as a "Calvinist", and God never called anyone to try to bring people into the doctrines of Calvin and TULIP and Hyper Calvinism.

God is not a Calvinist.
Jesus is not a Calvinist.
The Holy Spirit is not a Calvinist.
Paul is not a Calvinist.
The NT does not Teach "TULIP"........as this is the INVENTION of a person, and His DISCIPLES... who created this "doctrine of devils" that says that The Cross of Christ is not for "the world", as John 3:16 teaches, but its just for the "predestined elect"...which is CALVIN's doctrine that was evolved as the "5 Points".

When I first became a Christian, I had never heard of John Calvin or Calvinism. When I read the bible, I didn't see "Calvinism" because I had never heard of it. I did see that salvation is by God's grace, His undeserved favour, and not of our works. I saw too, that by nature, I was a sinner who had been dead in trespasses and sins. It was only much later that I discovered that such things are called the Doctrines of Grace, or as some call them, Calvinism.

"TULIP" is not Calvinism. It is merely a way of remembering Calvin's 5 Points. (And of course it only works in English. Calvin himself spoke French. He didn't invent the acronym). Those 5 Points were made in answer to the 5 Points of Arminius, and were never intended to be a complete summary of Calvin's theology. So of course the NT doesn't teach TULIP, because the NT was written hundreds of years before Arminius came up with his 5 Points, to which Calvin answered with 5 points of his own.

The bible does not teach that Christ died for everybody in the whole world but for His sheep:


“"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.” (Joh 10:11 NKJV)

The sheep cannot be everybody, because later in the same chapter Jesus said to some of His hearers:

“"But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.” (Joh 10:26 NKJV)

You say that John 3:16 says otherwise, but it says:

“"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” (Joh 3:16 NKJV)

Yes, it's those who believe in Him, not everybody without exception.

Calvinists do not seek to lead sinners to Calvinism, but to Christ.

 

[Grailhunter]

Universalism is gaining popularity and a pivotal verse is John 12:32.

ESV
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.

Can folks suggest what was meant by John in this verse please.

My thoughts are that He was prophesied to be the ultimate stumbling stone - one from whom no one could hide.

Judgement therefore amounts to Him weighing every mans response, in this life, to Himself (Jesus) witnessed to all men through the Gospel and/or through creation itself.

This is done through the work of the Holy Spirit who convicts the WORLD of sin, righteousness and judgement.

Your thoughts appreciated.

Call in the scripture detectives!
What can a scripture mean?
What can a scripture not mean?

If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. Luke 14:26
Should we hate our father and mother?
There is another meaning here.

Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
Are all wealthy people destined for Hell? By their standards most of us today are wealthy.
There is another meaning here.

 

[Behold]

When I first became a Christian,

Correct.
No one is a Calvinist when they first become a Christian.
You have to be led into it, same as a deceived person has been led into any other cult theology.

No one starts out "venerating Mary", or "believing that the book of Mormon is BIBLE".

Paul teaches this being led into cultic deception as....."WHO>.. has bewitched you" so that you no longer obey the Truth".....

"TULIP" is not Calvinism. It is merely a way of remembering Calvin's 5 Points.

TULIP, and Cavinism, are a Calvinist.

Hyper-Calvinists, are worse because they over-emphasize the "5-points".

The bible does not teach that Christ died for everybody in the whole world but for His sheep:

David...that is what Calvinism says........and you being a Calvinist, repeat HIS theology.

“"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.” (Joh 10:11 NKJV)

All the born again are "the Sheep"., just like all the born again are "Heirs of God" who will be conformed into the Image of Christ, because they became A Christian, and are now IN Christ.

“"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” (Joh 3:16 NKJV)

Notice John 3:16 says...>>>"WHOSOEVER believes"..

"Whosoever, is : ANY, ALL, Everyone". = MAY Believe In Jesus.

Now, Calvinism, TULIP< changes this from "Whosoever" into only : "predestined elect".

So, that is denying that The Cross is for "WHOSOVER".....which is "THE WORLD">......as explained by John's Verse.

The Cross of Christ is offered to the "WORLD"........everyone.

This is why Jesus said......>>"""I came into the world to save SINNERS"""......as "ALL have sinned, there is none righteous, no not one".

Calvinism..... "the 5 points"......denies that Jesus came to and for the WORLD of SINNERs, and claims and teaches that Jesus only came for the "Predestined " "elect".

 

[Behold]

Call in the scripture detectives!

I appreciate that you have an attention seeking daily "prayer" Thread, as that is the one place on the forum that your theology isn't wrong, or backwards, or heretical, or just plain New Testament ignorant.

See you there ...

 

[David Lamb]

Correct.
No one is a Calvinist when they first become a Christian.
You have to be led into it, same as a deceived person has been led into any other cult theology.

Nobody led me to believe the doctrines of Grace/Calvinism. I believed them before I even knew they had those names, because I read the doctrines in the bible.

No one starts out "venerating Mary", or "believing that the book of Mormon is BIBLE".

I would agree with that.

Paul teaches this being led into cultic deception as....."WHO>.. has bewitched you" so that you no longer obey the Truth".....



TULIP, and Cavinism, are a Calvinist.

Hyper-Calvinists, are worse because they over-emphasize the "5-points".




David...that is what Calvinism says........and you being a Calvinist, repeat HIS theology.

Christ dying for His sheep is what Jesus Himself said. Some of His hearers not being His sheep was what Jesus Himself said too.

All the born again are "the Sheep"., just like all the born again are "Heirs of God" who will be conformed into the Image of Christ, because they became A Christian, and are now IN Christ.

No that is not what Jesus said. He didn't say, "You are not of my sheep because you do not believe," but "You do not believe because you are not my sheep."

Notice John 3:16 says...>>>"WHOSOEVER believes"..

Yes, that is what I said. Whoever believes, not everybody.

"Whosoever, is : ANY, ALL, Everyone". = MAY Believe In Jesus.

Now, Calvinism, TULIP< changes this from "Whosoever" into only : "predestined elect".

No, it says that when a sinner believes, that shows that they are of the elect. You seem to have got the idea that Calvinists ignore belief in the Lord Jesus Christ - they don't.

So, that is denying that The Cross is for "WHOSOVER".....which is "THE WORLD">......as explained by John's Verse.

No, the whoever is those who believe.

The Cross of Christ is offered to the "WORLD"........everyone.

This is why Jesus said......>>"""I came into the world to save SINNERS"""......as "ALL have sinned, there is none righteous, no not one".

Calvinism..... "the 5 points"......denies that Jesus came to and for the WORLD of SINNERs, and claims and teaches that Jesus only came for the "Predestined " "elect".

No Calvinism does no such thing. It repeats biblical doctrine that Christians are saved sinners were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, as Ephesians says.

 

[shepherdsword]

The bible does not teach that Christ died for everybody in the whole world but for His sheep:

That's just plain ignorance. The bible teaches it all over the place.

Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Ti 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

2 Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Ro 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

 

[Grailhunter]

I appreciate that you have an attention seeking daily "prayer" Thread, as that is the one place on the forum that your theology isn't wrong, or backwards, or heretical, or just plain New Testament ignorant.

See you there ...

LOL

 

[Behold]

Nobody led me to believe the doctrines of Grace/Calvinism. I believed them before I even knew they had those names, because I read the doctrines in the bible.

You can't open a bible and suddenly NT doctrine says..>>>"Here, im a doctrine".

But you can be led into Calvinism, by his demonic filtering of specific doctrine's of Paul.....into his "doctrines of Devils".

Christ dying for His sheep is what Jesus Himself said. Some of His hearers not being His sheep was what Jesus Himself said too.

All Christians become God's Born again, ........because they are Born again.

So, God "foreknew" who is going to Trust in Christ before you are born....., and so the NT will talk about those who God knows will trust in Christ.....but the NT does not teach that God only chooses SOME, and refuses Others... = "Limited Atonement".

So, what Calvin did.....is very simple....>>He changed the definition of """God's fore-knowing""" everything.....into..>>"""God predestined it all"""

See that?

So, God knowing everything, before it happens next.... is God's Fore-knowledge, or "knowlede of everything that wil happen NEXT".

So, Calvin twist that "knowing".....into "predestining" and then created "pre-destined theology" by redefining "God's Foreknowledge" as.. "God predestining it all".

AND THEN the deceived disciples of Calvin just ran with it, and "pre-destined it all".

"Pre-destined to believe".
"Predestined to go to hell"......

They Predestined everything.......and to make this theological junk seem to work....they teach that you have no "FREE WILL".. so that this Falste teaching tries to PROVE that everything is GOD Predestined.

"Faith"
"Salvation"
"Going to Hell".

Calvinism and Tulip, is one of the 3 greatest CULT Teaching ever created by : Satan

The other 2 are "Marian Devotion" and "Islam".

No that is not what Jesus said. He didn't say, "You are not of my sheep because you do not believe," but "You do not believe because you are not my sheep."

And that is John 10 you posted.

And so, that is talking to JEWS...... vs........AFter The Cross of Christ..... where we find .. "ALL who will believe in Jesus shall be saved".

So, that one is a NT New Covenant "SHEEP">.....as this is created by The Cross of Christ.......and in Jh 10, there is no Cross of Christ, so, no "Christian Sheep".
Just disciples.

Yes, that is what I said. Whoever believes, not everybody.

And if the Theology teaches that the "whosoever" is = everyone may believe......vs.. "only the predestined" then the theology is not a cult teaching, because it agrees with John 3:16 and Paul's Gospel, and the Grace of God.

No, it says that when a sinner believes, that shows that they are of the elect. You seem to have got the idea that Calvinists ignore belief in the Lord Jesus Christ - they don't.

Its the "LIMITED Atonement" that is the Satanic Issue, most of all, as that is Limiting The Cross, by teaching that Not everyone is ALLOWED to Trust in Christ.........but only those whom God chooses (Predesteined) to believe.

= That's the Cross Denying "doctrine of Devils".......worst aspect of TULIP.

 

[Behold]

No Calvinism does no such thing.

Let look at this.... Reader...

"election according to Grace".

Here is how that works..

1.) "God's Amazing Grace is Jesus on The Cross, and if you give God your faith in Christ, then you are elected as.. "Grace through Faith".


Now....Here is the False version...

2.) "You are too depraved to give God your faith, as you dont have any...... so, IF God has predestined you to believe, .....then God gives you faith in Christ, as the """ Election of Grace'""

So, we see that #2, is a false doctrine, because we know that God requires OUR Faith, not His, and we know that we are the BELIEVER, so that proves we are not too depraved to believe..... and in fact have FREE WILL to do it.

So, if God is only choosing Some (the predestined)....., and wont allow everyone the choice to believe in Jesus , then John 3:16 is being denied.......so then we are dealing with : "Limited atonement, total depravity" ... Hebrews 13:9 = "Doctrines of Devils".

 

[complete]

'And I, if I be lifted up from the earth,
will draw all men unto Me.'
(Joh 12:32)

Hello there, @Carl Emerson,

The word, 'All', here means, 'all without distinction'. not, 'all without exception', for fact and experience prove otherwise. There is a figure of speech here, by which the genus is put for the species, called 'Synecdoche', or 'Transfer', the exchange of one idea for another associated idea; and 'all' means people of all sorts and conditions and nations and tongues, as distinguished from the one nation:- Israel, which had up until the time of speaking, been the partaker of all Divine favour. The same is true of 1 Tim. 2:4, 'Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. Here the 'all 'is the same as in verse 1, 'I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men'; in verse two, some of them are named, 'For kings, and for all that are in authority. This is in contradiction to the former dispensation when salvation was confined to the Jews (John 4:22); but now it is extended to people out of all tongues, and nations, and peoples. (ref: 'Figures of Speech used in the Bible')

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Behold]

'And I, if I be lifted up from the earth,
will draw all men unto Me.'
(Joh 12:32)

Hello there, @Carl Emerson,

The word, 'All', here means, 'all without distinction'. not, 'all without exception', for fact and experience prove otherwise. There is a figure of speech here, by which the genus is put for the species, called 'Synecdoche', or 'Transfer', the exchange of one idea for another associated idea; and 'all' means people of all sorts and conditions and nations and tongues, as distinguished from the one nation:- Israel, which had up until the time of speaking, been the partaker of all Divine favour. The same is true of 1 Tim. 2:4, 'Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. Here the 'all 'is the same as in verse 1, 'I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men'; in verse two, some of them are named, 'For kings, and for all that are in authority. This is in contradiction to the former dispensation when salvation was confined to the Jews (John 4:22); but now it is extended to people out of all tongues, and nations, and peoples. (ref: 'Figures of Speech used in the Bible')

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yes.

"All" means "All", no matter if you define it in Websters on in the NT.

It means.......everyone, whosoever, anyone...

Jesus died on The Cross for these..

= "Jesus came into the world to save SINNERS"..

Who are the sinners?

A.) "all, everyone, anyone"....because "ALL have sinned, there is none righteous, no not one".

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Universalism is gaining popularity and a pivotal verse is John 12:32.

ESV
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.

Can folks suggest what was meant by John in this verse please.

My thoughts are that He was prophesied to be the ultimate stumbling stone - one from whom no one could hide.

Judgement therefore amounts to Him weighing every mans response, in this life, to Himself (Jesus) witnessed to all men through the Gospel and/or through creation itself.

This is done through the work of the Holy Spirit who convicts the WORLD of sin, righteousness and judgement.

Your thoughts appreciated.

In context, the chapter begins with Jesus visiting Mary and Lazarus. Certainly many were drawn to Him after He resurrected Lazarus. With His entrance into Jerusalem, many were drawn to Him, but not all.
Even with all the miracles, many did not believe.
“For a little while longer the Light is among you. Walk while you have the Light, so that darkness will not overtake you; he who walks in the darkness does not know where he goes. While you have the Light, believe in the Light, so that you may become sons of Light.”
These things Jesus spoke, and He went away and hid Himself from them. But though He had performed so many signs before them, yet they were not believing in Him." John 12:36-37

He makes a point that when He is lifted up, raised from the dead, all will be drawn to Him. Obviously miracles can persuade many, but the resurrection was the ultimate miracle that we all count on. If He did not rise, neither will we defeat death and gain eternal life. That is the gospel, that He died for our sins, was buried and rose from the dead after 3 days. We are drawn to that. All the other miracles of healing are temporal. Temporal physical healings we ask for, but forgiveness of our sins and eternal life is what draws us to Christ.
During the 40 days after His resurrection ( of which we count ten appearances), it seems He revealed Himself to His sheep only. More than 500 saw Him ascend, but they were all His sheep.
Was Pontious Pilate or Caiaphas there watching too? No
When the Pharisees and all the doubters heard of His resurrection, where they drawn to Him? "JESUS rose from the dead? Really, that's a lie ... I must see this fo myself!" Did they? The Bible doesn't say that, otherwise they all would believe, wouldn't they. Even if we were to take his statement and apply it to the entire world for all time following His death and resurrection, to be fair, was every person alive on earth throughout the last 2000 years ALL drawn to Jesus? No. So, did the Father draw all men to Jesus? No. Did He draw all His sheep? Yes.
John 6:44 says "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent me draws them."
Jesus identified those who were not His sheep! Obviously they were not drawn by the Father. There would not be such a thing as a tare among the wheat. If all were sheep, all would be harvested and there would not be tares. There would not be all these false religions: billions who died without Christ.
John 10 26-30 says, "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep. My sheep listen to My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”

What can we conclude?
Not all are His sheep, not all are drawn by the Father to Jesus, therefore not all come and believe.
Later on in the chapter He states that some will reject him and they will be judged on the last day.
The one who rejects Me and does not accept My teachings has one who judges him: the word which I spoke. That will judge him on the last day. (vs. 48)

MANY WILL BE JUDGED FOR REJECTING JESUS and be cast into the Lake of Fire.

 

[Behold]

What can we conclude?
Not all are His sheep, not all are drawn by the Father to Jesus, therefore not all come and believe.
Later on in the chapter He states that some will reject him and they will be judged on the last day.
The one who rejects Me and does not accept My teachings has one who judges him: the word which I spoke. That will judge him on the last day. (vs. 48)

MANY WILL BE JUDGED FOR REJECTING JESUS.

You just posted that God will Judge Christ Rejectors into HELL...., yet You just explained this as God not allowing them to Believe in Jesus.

So, that God, according to that theological insanity, is a cosmic Psychopath.........who sends Christ Rejectors to Hell, who are not allowed to Believe In Jesus.
So that "GOD" wont allow you to trust in Christ and then blames you for your unbelief and damns you for it.

= That is CRAZY theology, that is so Cross Rejecting and Grace denying = that only Satan could have created such a Twisted LIE that is : Hyper=Calvinism.

 

[complete]

'Now is the judgment of this world:
now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
And I, I be lifted up from the earth,
will draw all men unto Me.'
(Joh 12:31-32)

'And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in Him should not perish,
but have eternal life.'
(Joh 3:14-15)

And the LORD said unto Moses,
Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole:
and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten,
when he looketh upon it, shall live.
And Moses made a serpent of brass,
and put it upon a pole,
and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man,
when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.'
(Num 21:8-9)

Praise God!

 

[complete]

In context, the chapter begins with Jesus visiting Mary and Lazarus. Certainly many were drawn to Him after He resurrected Lazarus. With His entrance into Jerusalem, many were drawn to Him, but not all.
Even with all the miracles, many did not believe.
“For a little while longer the Light is among you. Walk while you have the Light, so that darkness will not overtake you; he who walks in the darkness does not know where he goes. While you have the Light, believe in the Light, so that you may become sons of Light.”
These things Jesus spoke, and He went away and hid Himself from them. But though He had performed so many signs before them, yet they were not believing in Him." John 12:36-37

He makes a point that when He is lifted up, raised from the dead, all will be drawn to Him. Obviously miracles can persuade many, but the resurrection was the ultimate miracle that we all count on. If He did not rise, neither will we defeat death and gain eternal life. That is the gospel, that He died for our sins, was buried and rose from the dead after 3 days. We are drawn to that. All the other miracles of healing are temporal. Temporal physical healings we ask for, but forgiveness of our sins and eternal life is what draws us to Christ.
During the 40 days after His resurrection ( of which we count ten appearances), it seems He revealed Himself to His sheep only. More than 500 saw Him ascend, but they were all His sheep.
Was Pontious Pilate or Caiaphas there watching too? No
When the Pharisees and all the doubters heard of His resurrection, where they drawn to Him? "JESUS rose from the dead? Really, that's a lie ... I must see this fo myself!" Did they? The Bible doesn't say that, otherwise they all would believe, wouldn't they. Even if we were to take his statement and apply it to the entire world for all time following His death and resurrection, to be fair, was every person alive on earth throughout the last 2000 years ALL drawn to Jesus? No. So, did the Father draw all men to Jesus? No. Did He draw all His sheep? Yes.
John 6:44 says "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent me draws them."
Jesus identified those who were not His sheep! Obviously they were not drawn by the Father. There would not be such a thing as a tare among the wheat. If all were sheep, all would be harvested and there would not be tares. There would not be all these false religions: billions who died without Christ.
John 10 26-30 says, "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep. My sheep listen to My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”

What can we conclude?
Not all are His sheep, not all are drawn by the Father to Jesus, therefore not all come and believe.
Later on in the chapter He states that some will reject him and they will be judged on the last day.
The one who rejects Me and does not accept My teachings has one who judges him: the word which I spoke. That will judge him on the last day. (vs. 48)

MANY WILL BE JUDGED FOR REJECTING JESUS and be cast into the Lake of Fire.

'Even so then at this present time also
there is a remnant
according to the election of grace.'
(Rom 11:5)

Hello @Ronald David Bruno,

The Lord Jesus Christ came unto 'the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel': it was to them that He directed His words; and one day they will ALL believe. During His first advent, as Paul explains in Romans 11, only a believing remnant would be saved. Those whom God would call, but the day will come when all Israel shall be saved. All of Israel will be drawn to Him.
At His coming again, His second advent (Romans 11:26): they will see the marks in His body, caused by His humiliation and ill treatment prior to the cross, and by the crucifixion itself, and will mourn for Him, and repent as a nation.

'For I would not, brethren,
that ye should be ignorant of this mystery,
lest ye should be wise in your own conceits;
that blindness in part is happened to Israel,
until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,
There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer,
and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
For this is My covenant unto them,
when I shall take away their sins.'
(Rom 11:25-27)

'And I will pour upon the house of David,
and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem,
the spirit of grace and of supplications:
and they shall look upon Me Whom they have pierced,
and they shall mourn for Him,
as one mourneth for his only son,
and shall be in bitterness for Him,
as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.'
(Zec 12:10)

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[CadyandZoe]

Universalism is gaining popularity and a pivotal verse is John 12:32.

ESV
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.

Can folks suggest what was meant by John in this verse please.

My thoughts are that He was prophesied to be the ultimate stumbling stone - one from whom no one could hide.

Judgement therefore amounts to Him weighing every mans response, in this life, to Himself (Jesus) witnessed to all men through the Gospel and/or through creation itself.

This is done through the work of the Holy Spirit who convicts the WORLD of sin, righteousness and judgement.

Your thoughts appreciated.

I agree with your perspective. I believe that Jesus is indicating he will draw "all kinds of people" to himself. There will be a wide diversity of individuals in terms of personality, background, experiences, and social status. As Paul mentioned, there will be both rich and poor, male and female, as well as slave and free.

Jesus addressed a mixed crowd of both sinners and Pharisees. The Pharisees taught that God would only justify those who adopted their strict practices. In contrast to this teaching, Jesus proclaimed that all people—not just the Pharisees—are welcome to seek God's favor through him.

Every day experience proves that not every individual is drawn to Jesus.

 

[Behold]

Every day experience proves that not every individual is drawn to Jesus.

Jesus said "if i be lifted up, i will Draw.....ALL people to me".......this is John 3:16......as "the WORLD"....

So, we note that The Cross of Christ that is 2000 yrs ago... is where Sinners in 2025 and 2045, go to become a Christian, by receiving God's Salvation as "The Gift of Salvation".

So, the "world" .. is always being called by Jesus to "come and believe".....but not everyone in the world, is going to do it.

That is FREE WILL, and God accepts our Free will to trust or not to trust in Christ now, and after we die.

 

[GracePeace]

Universalism is gaining popularity and a pivotal verse is John 12:32.

ESV
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.

Can folks suggest what was meant by John in this verse please.

My thoughts are that He was prophesied to be the ultimate stumbling stone - one from whom no one could hide.

Judgement therefore amounts to Him weighing every mans response, in this life, to Himself (Jesus) witnessed to all men through the Gospel and/or through creation itself.

This is done through the work of the Holy Spirit who convicts the WORLD of sin, righteousness and judgement.

Your thoughts appreciated.

People here are incapable of staying on topic; if it bothers you, I understand.