Hermeneutics 101 - Truth, Do we have it?

[dragonfly]

Hi Rocky,

Thanks for your reply.

If the destruction of the Temple was the end of the age, then the age of which Jesus was speaking was the age in which death reigned. That ties in with the verse in John 5:28, about the dead hearing. But He does say 'all' that are in the graves. Wouldn't that include non-Jews?

In John 5:25, He says 'the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God'. I think 'hear' means a little more than 'hear the sound of', because He states that they who 'hear' shall live. So, is this about resurrection day? John 5:29

Jesus spoke of this in Matthew 24, when he told his disciples that the temple would be destroyed. They, being Jews, knew that would mean the end of the age for they asked "When shall these things be, the sign of thy coming and the end of the age?" Mat 24:3

You might like to compare the beginning of Genesis 5 with the beginning of Matthew 1, where generation is singular.

The other aspect of the passage in John 5 - or anything which one attempts to limit to 'the Jews', is that the disciples were all Jews of one sort or another, and they were both hearing and believing Him, although with limited understanding, until (as Steve referred to) 'the road'. Even before His ascension, they still had not grasped that the 'Israel' which was going to be 'restored', was not the old Israel of the flesh, but the new Israel of the Spirit.

As Jesus said to Thomas, 'Blessed are those who have not seen, yet believe'. He had also told them one of the reasons they needed the Holy Spirit was because they could not yet 'bear' all that He had to reveal to them.

What is the point in trying to put their subsequent revelation and exposition (through the epistles) back in the box?

Is it just an exercise in trying to grasp how dense not only the disciples, but all the Jews were, at that time? (Before Pentecost.)

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Hi Rocky,

Thanks for your reply.

If the destruction of the Temple was the end of the age, then the age of which Jesus was speaking was the age in which death reigned. That ties in with the verse in John 5:28, about the dead hearing. But He does say 'all' that are in the graves. Wouldn't that include non-Jews?

Hi dragonfly,
It only speaks of the people that God had the covenant with. That would be the descendants of Adam and later with Moses and the children that came out of Egypt. By saying it might mean everyone that had died is like saying today it would include sinners as well as Christians will be saved. We just don't know how God deals with those that never heard of our God.

In John 5:25, He says 'the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God'. I think 'hear' means a little more than 'hear the sound of', because He states that they who 'hear' shall live. So, is this about resurrection day? John 5:29

You might like to compare the beginning of Genesis 5 with the beginning of Matthew 1, where generation is singular.

'hear' means those that were waiting for the resurrection, for those of faith knew that day would come.

Jesus speaks of the dead in the graves and sometimes those that sleep would be the same. In John 5:28 he does not add 'graves' he just said the dead shall hear. Adam is the example, God told him that the day he ate of the tree of knowledge, he would die. That had to be a spiritual death since Adam lived on earth several hundred years afterward. If Adam was dead so were all that came after him. Jesus said the dead shall hear his voice means those that we might call 'the walking dead'.

In Matthew 1 it is dealing only with the generation that Jesus was living, though it does give the genealogy.

The other aspect of the passage in John 5 - or anything which one attempts to limit to 'the Jews', is that the disciples were all Jews of one sort or another, and they were both hearing and believing Him, although with limited understanding, until (as Steve referred to) 'the road'. Even before His ascension, they still had not grasped that the 'Israel' which was going to be 'restored', was not the old Israel of the flesh, but the new Israel of the Spirit.

As Jesus said to Thomas, 'Blessed are those who have not seen, yet believe'. He had also told them one of the reasons they needed the Holy Spirit was because they could not yet 'bear' all that He had to reveal to them.

What is the point in trying to put their subsequent revelation and exposition (through the epistles) back in the box?

While Jesus walked here of earth, he dealt only with the Jews. He was their Messiah and those that heard and believed were saved. They would also understand that it would mean a new covenant was being made that would do away with the 'old age of law'.

In the book of Acts:
Act 1:1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
Act 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
After this 40 days and nights that only ask:
Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth
Jesus still would not give them the date or time of the destruction of the temple, which would signify the end of the old and the beginning of the new.
The epistles were written to the churches and/or the early Christians. They were not written to us.

Is it just an exercise in trying to grasp how dense not only the disciples, but all the Jews were, at that time? (Before Pentecost.)

I hope this has helped and that you continue to study and ask questions. I do recommend that you take a look at the bible studies that Pastor David Curtis has on his web site also. He has some real in depth studies on this very subject, and they are free.
http://www.bereanbiblechurch.org/home.php

Have a good day!