Hey, I'm not to good to ask for help! The Way to Salvation. Me versus my brother (who is a pastor)

[Waiting on him]

Blessings in Christ Jesus! " Believe on The Lord Jesus and you shall be saved" This same answer you have within you. If you have faith to believe, then The Lord will give you all you need, when you have to witness, or give account. The thief was saved because he believed. (Believed on The Lord Jesus). Even though it was during the old, the way He was saved was from the new.

Jesus’s answer to Him was today you shall be with me in paradise, but I feel this was the same as being safe, at the same time lacking reconciliation.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

View attachment 7507 I know where my brother was going with this statement...... "Want you to have the whole counsel of the word of God and not just the faith only doctrine that ignores so much of what the bible actually teaches." He was referring to the BAPTISM part. We debated this many years ago, he knows I have changed my belief in thinking that baptism saves. This is what I was taught growing up and like I just said, I no longer believe baptism saves, but it is just an outward sign of faith in Jesus Christ and symbolizes the purity of your faith, like in a ritual. My brother still believes that it takes faith and baptism to be saved. Kinda disheartening.

Hi, jshili, the baptism that saves is our baptism into Jesus Christ when we first believe in Him. The moment we believe, we are placed into Him. Water baptism is an outer expression of the inner baptism into Him. I had to grapple with this truth as a baby Christian when I was proselytized by a friend's roommate who was staunchly Church of Christ.

I believe that if water baptism were required for salvation, then EVERY scripture that mentions salvation would mention this as a requirement--believe AND be baptized, but not ALL do. What ALL of the scriptures pertaining to salvation stress is belief in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ--His crucifixion and resurrection.

Baptism is important. We are commanded to be baptized, but if a dying person turns to Jesus Christ for salvation in the last moments of life, will God prevent their entrance to heaven because they were not baptized in water? This is hypothetical and doesn't prove anything, but I have heard accounts of people receiving Jesus Christ as their Savior as they were dying. I believe that both my mother and my late husband's father received Him on their deathbeds.

I'm not sure that what I've shared helps you in your discussion with your brother. I would say that first, you need to be firm in what you believe, but you and your brother may end up having to agree to disagree. I don't see this as a reason to break fellowship with another Christian.

 

[GTW27]

Jesus’s answer to Him was today you shall be with me in paradise, but I feel this was the same as being safe, at the same time lacking reconciliation.

If a thief stood(hung next to) in The Presence of true Holiness, how would they feel? Would they feel sorry for their own wretchedness? Would not their heart be pricked? Would not the thief truly know that the messiah hung right beside him? And if per chance, all of these things be so, where would that man be today?

 

[lforrest]

If a thief stood(hung next to) in The Presence of true Holiness, how would they feel? Would they feel sorry for their own wretchedness? Would not their heart be pricked? Would not the thief truly know that the messiah hung right beside him? And if per chance, all of these things be so, where would that man be today?

There was the thief on the other side who was not repentant. Perhaps it was this way to demonstrate the sheep and goat parable.

 

[Doug]

I am not gonna tell you my brother's denomination, but no offense Catholics, but it ain't you guys. This is the dialogue this afternoon between my brother and I. I need expert help from Christian experts on how to respond to my brother. Maybe he is right? Maybe we are both wrong? I was debating with him today via text on primary doctrine and the way to salvation.. My responses are in Green his are the other. I told him I would respond tomorrow. It will be a response of love no less. Not gonna sacrifice the love for my brother over this. I just need help in knowing if he is correct or I'm correct.....and I may be totally off myself. Been a bad day. I'll humble myself and admit to my brother he is correct if he is.


So Is he correct on How and When a person is saved? He wants me to have the whole counsel of the Word of God and not just the "Faith only Doctrine, that ignores so much of what the Bible Teaches." I like my faith answer? I need a short answer to respond to him.....ha, maybe there is no short answer

The book of Acts is about the diminishing of Israel and the start of the church today the body of Christ with the conversion of Paul in Acts 9.
Jesus and the twelve preached the gospel of the kingdom (Matthew 4:23).....Christ would confirm the promises of the fathers and establish the kingdom on earth and Israel would reign with him.
The gospel preached included believing on the name of Jesus (John 20:31) as Messiah, the Son of God. There is nothing of the cross yet in this gospel.
Jesus and the apostles commanded baptism for the remission of sins and receiving the Holy Ghost for the new testament (Ezekiel 36:24-28) to enable them to be righteous to enter the kingdom.
Paul was given full revelation and preached the cross , the gospel of the grace of God and forgiveness by faith in his blood.

 

[lforrest]

Also consider that the sacrifice of bulls and goats does not save. So what was the point of them?

 

[Nondenom40]

I hate saying this, but I was brought up to believe you had to be baptised also to be saved. I no longer believe baptism is "primary doctrine". However, my brother believes baptism by water is "primary doctrine." I really didn't want to introduce this, because I'm worried it may take away from what I'm really trying to share with my brother and this post. But just thought I would add

If thats a stumbling block for him then discuss the verses he thinks refer to water baptism being necessary for salvation. Probably verses like; John 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21 and maybe the end of Mark 16. None of these suggest water baptism saves anyone. Salvation is a free gift of God, not a work we do to be saved. Baptism comes after one is saved, not before.

 

[bbyrd009]

Ritual baptism anyway; Right after the ritual salvation that you are espousing I guess

I like what you say, but my brother is a Pastor. He will want scripture

No offense but I’m sure your brother is looking for an a or B, yes or no, fact, that he can put a nail in or something, and I don’t think it works like that?

 

[bbyrd009]

I hate saying this, but I was brought up to believe you had to be baptised also to be saved. I no longer believe baptism is "primary doctrine". However, my brother believes baptism by water is "primary doctrine." I really didn't want to introduce this, because I'm worried it may take away from what I'm really trying to share with my brother and this post. But just thought I would add

See, that your brother believes ritual baptism and is necessary for salvation pretty much tells you all you need to know I think.