Hey, I'm not to good to ask for help! The Way to Salvation. Me versus my brother (who is a pastor)

[jshiii]

I am not gonna tell you my brother's denomination, but no offense Catholics, but it ain't you guys. This is the dialogue this afternoon between my brother and I. I need expert help from Christian experts on how to respond to my brother. Maybe he is right? Maybe we are both wrong? I was debating with him today via text on primary doctrine and the way to salvation.. My responses are in Green his are the other. I told him I would respond tomorrow. It will be a response of love no less. Not gonna sacrifice the love for my brother over this. I just need help in knowing if he is correct or I'm correct.....and I may be totally off myself. Been a bad day. I'll humble myself and admit to my brother he is correct if he is.


So Is he correct on How and When a person is saved? He wants me to have the whole counsel of the Word of God and not just the "Faith only Doctrine, that ignores so much of what the Bible Teaches." I like my faith answer? I need a short answer to respond to him.....ha, maybe there is no short answer

 

[reformed1689]

The fact that he thinks people were saved differently in the Old Covenant is all you need to know. That is utterly false. Everyone is saved by looking to Christ. In the Old Covenant they were looking forward to the Messiah, now we look back to the Messiah. All of us have to place faith in the Messiah.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I am not gonna tell you my brother's denomination, but no offense Catholics, but it ain't you guys. This is the dialogue this afternoon between my brother and I. I need expert help from Christian experts on how to respond to my brother. Maybe he is right? Maybe we are both wrong? I was debating with him today via text on primary doctrine and the way to salvation.. My responses are in Green his are the other. I told him I would respond tomorrow. It will be a response of love no less. Not gonna sacrifice the love for my brother over this. I just need help in knowing if he is correct or I'm correct.....and I may be totally off myself. Been a bad day. I'll humble myself and admit to my brother he is correct if he is.


So Is he correct on How and When a person is saved? I like my faith answer! I need a short answer to respond to him.....ha, maybe there is no short answer

All are saved by grace, no matter their contemporaneous existence. Note Jesus schooled Nicodemus in John 3 that he should have known that a person had to be born again, born from above, by the OT Scriptures. Your brother's mistake is based on his ignorance of the rudimentary teachings of the Gospel.

 

[marks]

Everyone is saved by looking to Christ. In the Old Covenant they were looking forward to the Messiah, now we look back to the Messiah.

Scripture, please.

Was Jephthah saved by knowing Jesus was coming?

Where do we read this?

Are you thinking the terms of the Covenant made with Israel at Horeb, and the New Covenant are the same?

Much love!

 

[jshiii]

Keep it going! Let's hash this out! I DO NOT WORSHIP A GOD OF CONFUSION!!! I will struggle with Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Father tonight over this! My prayer "I do not worship a God of confusion!", "Please give me answers."

 

[Waiting on him]

I am not gonna tell you my brother's denomination, but no offense Catholics, but it ain't you guys. This is the dialogue this afternoon between my brother and I. I need expert help from Christian experts on how to respond to my brother. Maybe he is right? Maybe we are both wrong? I was debating with him today via text on primary doctrine and the way to salvation.. My responses are in Green his are the other. I told him I would respond tomorrow. It will be a response of love no less. Not gonna sacrifice the love for my brother over this. I just need help in knowing if he is correct or I'm correct.....and I may be totally off myself. Been a bad day. I'll humble myself and admit to my brother he is correct if he is.


So Is he correct on How and When a person is saved? I like my faith answer? I need a short answer to respond to him.....ha, maybe there is no short answer

The only faith that saves men is faith gifted by the Holy Spirit.

 

[jshiii]

The only faith that saves men is faith gifted by the Holy Spirit.

I like what you say, but my brother is a Pastor. He will want scripture

 

[Waiting on him]

I like what you say, but my brother is a Pastor. He will want scripture

Galatians 5:22 KJV
[22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,


Tecarta Bible

 

[Waiting on him]

It’s very clear to me at Pentecost men that previously only had man mustered faith are suddenly emboldened God is walking in them now. These same men disciples of his witnessing God had no saving faith 3 1/2 years, if it were in man it would have happened prior to the gifting of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Waiting on him]

John 7:39 KJV
[39] (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given ; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)


Tecarta Bible

 

[Waiting on him]

1 Corinthians 12:3 KJV
[3] Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Cant even confess Him as Lord without the Holy Ghost, and confession is too salvation
Tecarta Bible

 

[jshiii]

1 Corinthians 12:3 KJV
[3] Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Cant even confess Him as Lord without the Holy Ghost, and confession is too salvation
Tecarta Bible

I hate saying this, but I was brought up to believe you had to be baptised also to be saved. I no longer believe baptism is "primary doctrine". However, my brother believes baptism by water is "primary doctrine." I really didn't want to introduce this, because I'm worried it may take away from what I'm really trying to share with my brother and this post. But just thought I would add

 

[Waiting on him]

I hate saying this, but I was brought up to believe you had to be baptised also to be saved. I no longer believe baptism is "primary doctrine". However, my brother believes baptism by water is "primary doctrine." I really didn't want to introduce this, because I'm worried it may take away from what I'm really trying to share with my brother and this post. But just thought I would add

Jesus baptizes with fire

 

[ScottA]

I am not gonna tell you my brother's denomination, but no offense Catholics, but it ain't you guys. This is the dialogue this afternoon between my brother and I. I need expert help from Christian experts on how to respond to my brother. Maybe he is right? Maybe we are both wrong? I was debating with him today via text on primary doctrine and the way to salvation.. My responses are in Green his are the other. I told him I would respond tomorrow. It will be a response of love no less. Not gonna sacrifice the love for my brother over this. I just need help in knowing if he is correct or I'm correct.....and I may be totally off myself. Been a bad day. I'll humble myself and admit to my brother he is correct if he is.


So Is he correct on How and When a person is saved? He wants me to have the whole counsel of the Word of God and not just the "Faith only Doctrine, that ignores so much of what the Bible Teaches." I like my faith answer? I need a short answer to respond to him.....ha, maybe there is no short answer

All salvation(s) regardless of Old or New Covenant, can be marked by either of two different points in time:

(1) The cross, where salvation occurred for all ("today"...Jesus was correct); or
(2) at the moment of faith in God.

But it is at the cross that is most correct, as time (our different times of coming to salvation) is an illusion.

 

[lforrest]

I'm sure your bro the pastor has this all worked out, be it correct or incorrect. Your faith answer isn't going to change his mind. Since this isn't about him it seems you don't want to look foolish in his eyes.

Discuss it openly with him without shame, knowing you may have to wait patiently on the Lord for an answer. Or you can just google it and miss out.

I agree with David Taylor and Scott. I couldn't find the verse I was looking for, but this one should work to show new covenant blood being applied to people alive before the cross.

Zechariah 9:11
11 As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

 

[GTW27]

I am not gonna tell you my brother's denomination, but no offense Catholics, but it ain't you guys. This is the dialogue this afternoon between my brother and I. I need expert help from Christian experts on how to respond to my brother. Maybe he is right? Maybe we are both wrong? I was debating with him today via text on primary doctrine and the way to salvation.. My responses are in Green his are the other. I told him I would respond tomorrow. It will be a response of love no less. Not gonna sacrifice the love for my brother over this. I just need help in knowing if he is correct or I'm correct.....and I may be totally off myself. Been a bad day. I'll humble myself and admit to my brother he is correct if he is.


So Is he correct on How and When a person is saved? He wants me to have the whole counsel of the Word of God and not just the "Faith only Doctrine, that ignores so much of what the Bible Teaches." I like my faith answer? I need a short answer to respond to him.....ha, maybe there is no short answer

Blessings in Christ Jesus! " Believe on The Lord Jesus and you shall be saved" This same answer you have within you. If you have faith to believe, then The Lord will give you all you need, when you have to witness, or give account. The thief was saved because he believed. (Believed on The Lord Jesus). Even though it was during the old, the way He was saved was from the new.

 

[jshiii]

I know where my brother was going with this statement...... "Want you to have the whole counsel of the word of God and not just the faith only doctrine that ignores so much of what the bible actually teaches." He was referring to the BAPTISM part. We debated this many years ago, he knows I have changed my belief in thinking that baptism saves. This is what I was taught growing up and like I just said, I no longer believe baptism saves, but it is just an outward sign of faith in Jesus Christ and symbolizes the purity of your faith, like in a ritual. My brother still believes that it takes faith and baptism to be saved. Kinda disheartening.

 

[JohnPaul]

Jesus baptizes with fire

What is this Baptism by fire? I have heard of it.

 

[Waiting on him]

What is this Baptism by fire? I have heard of it.

In my opinion it is the refiners fire.

 

[Waiting on him]

What is this Baptism by fire? I have heard of it.

Matthew 3:11 KJV
[11] I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:


Tecarta Bible