Hi. Is this the right forum for me?

[Willie T]

Looks like snoot maybe decided this wasn't the place for him after all?

Maybe it's just as well. Even if he got along with everyone else, I imagine he and I would have butted heads a few times.

 

[Scoot]

Thanks so much to all for the warm welcome! I look forward to having some chats and seeing how I fit in.

Sorry for my delay in getting back - i can be hit and miss for how often I visit forums...

I won't respond to each personally - as there's a lot of welcomes - thanks heaps. But just a couple...

And people from Australia don't fit in any how. Just kidding.

In my original post I did omit that I have a warped sense of humour - and it seems that I've already found a kindred spirit in this area. ;-)

Well, you and I probably won't see eye-to-eye on much. But, right off the bat, I can think of at least a half-dozen people here who could have written the same post you did, almost word-for-word. So, you should feel comfortable and right at home with them.

On just one of your points that I think tends to ruin what Jesus brought us... I do not think the Bibles we read in the English language are "inerrant." This is because I have seen far too many incidents where people who seem to fluently understand those ancient languages in which the manuscripts were originally penned, point out flagrant and prejudicial errors in the translations of the only books I can read.... those in my tongue.

Thanks for your cander Willie! I actually agree - the English translations of the bible have their translation errors - I completely concur. I am talking about the original manuscripts. I believe they are inerrant and divine.

I am aware that they have contradictions - but I believe the contradictions aren't really contradictions, but act almost like a CRC check with computers. When we see a contradiction - it means that we have misunderstood one (or more) of the scriptures and we need to go back and reconsider and restudy, and seek God until we have a revelation where they complement each other, and not contradict.

Just wondering on a few examples on what points you think we may butt heads? :-)

 

[Willie T]

Thanks for your cander Willie! I actually agree - the English translations of the bible have their translation errors - I completely concur. I am talking about the original manuscripts. I believe they are inerrant and divine.

I am aware that they have contradictions - but I believe the contradictions aren't really contradictions, but act almost like a CRC check with computers. When we see a contradiction - it means that we have misunderstood one (or more) of the scriptures and we need to go back and reconsider and restudy, and seek God until we have a revelation where they complement each other, and not contradict.

Just wondering on a few examples on what points you think we may butt heads? :)

Well, since I have never read an original manuscript — and never will — it really doesn't do me much good to assume something totally uncypherable to me actually meant something other than what I gleaned from the pages of the book I bought down at the local Christian supply store.

And "what will we butt heads about?" I guess I could say, "Just name something — anything." I have found that I rarely ever agree with the views of people who self-classify themselves as Fundamentalists.

Unfortunately, "Fundamentalist" is just about synonymous with Westboro Baptist, to me. Although people with less fanatical and extreme views seldom seem to read the same Bible I do... at least, not the same way.

 

[Scoot]

Well, since I have never read an original manuscript — and never will — it really doesn't do me much good to assume something totally uncypherable to me actually meant something other than what I gleaned from the pages of the book I bought down at the local Christian supply store.

And "what will we butt heads about?" I guess I could say, "Just name something — anything." I have found that I rarely ever agree with the views of people who self-classify themselves as Fundamentalists.

Unfortunately, "Fundamentalist" is just about synonymous with Westboro Baptist, to me. Although people with less fanatical and extreme views seldom seem to read the same Bible I do... at least, not the same way.

Hi Willie,

Thanks for your post. OK - Westboro Baptist - I don't know a huge amount about them except for what I've seen online, which appears as though they border on hatred. I remember stumbling across one of their forums, and their views and the way they posted at people came across extremely judgmental with little to know love or concern.

If that's your first impression of me from what I've written - I hope to change that. :-)

In regards to the manuscripts - I hold my faith on them completely as the word of God. When I need clarification I'll go from the English language back to the Greek or Hebrew to get a greater understanding of what is mentioned - because I believe the original manuscripts to be inerrant. That's not to say that I fully trust my interpretation of the scriptures and are open to others interpretation - but I do not believe that the original manuscripts are inerrant - and treat it so to the point that if someone comes to me with a different 'idea' - that can not be supported using the original manuscripts plus goes against what the original manuscripts appear to write - I dismiss it.

Likewise (as mentioned) - if I see two scriptures contradicting each other - I don't believe it's possible and see it as a flag that I am misunderstanding or misinterpreting those scriptures because God's word complements each other - and does not contradict.

But I guess time will tell. Even if we do butt heads - I am more than happy to continue conversing with you if we can do it politely without getting emotional or personal attacks. See you around on the forums. :-)

 

[Willie T]

Good morning, Scoot,
Likewise, it is not the original manuscripts I doubt, but rather the myriad interpretations of those same manuscripts I have seen offered. And that often seems to be where the inherent dogmatism found in Fundamentalism usually gets mired down. ("The bible says it, I believe it, and that settles it!")

 

[Scoot]

Good morning, Scoot,
Likewise, it is not the original manuscripts I doubt, but rather the myriad interpretations of those same manuscripts I have seen offered. And that often seems to be where the inherent dogmatism found in Fundamentalism usually gets mired down. (The bible says it, I believe it, and that settles it!)

Maybe you and I won't lock heads as much as you think. ;-) (Maybe I gave you the wrong impression of me).

I do admit - I am very strong with my convictions, but I also believe myself to be open minded that I can be wrong - just as much as anyone else (or even deceived as well) - and if someone is able to show me evidence that supports where I'm wrong - I actually want to see it and be challenged.

I consider myself a fundamentalist in that if scripture says something that I believe - and people put up an argument against it using mans logic - I have no interest in it. However if they can put up an argument against it using scripture - or showing me how I've misunderstood or misinterpreted scripture - I'm very keen to hear them out.

It's one of the reasons I'm coming out of the Pentecostal movement. When I first heard John McArthur - I respected and appreciated a lot of his sermons. Then, I heard what He said about the majority of Charismatics following something that is not the Holy Spirit. That blew me away, and I almost discredited him - but there was something about it that made me reconsider why he would say such a thing. After seeing American Gospel, and then as I am now working my way through strange fire - I can't agree with everything that he mentions - but there is enough there that has me extremely concerned already that much of what he is saying is correct.

So a fundamentalist yes - but not to my interpretations - to scripture and I'm always open to someone showing me where I'm misunderstanding it. :-)

 

[Willie T]

I spent 12 years in The Church of Christ, and this is the Typical Bible Class I remember:

Instructor: "Brother Jones, will you read Verse 1?"
Brother Jones reads it.
Instructor: "Brother Smith, can you tell us what that verse means?
Brother Smith: "Just what it says!"
All the Class: "AMEN!!!"
Instructor: "Thank you. Now, Brother Brown, will you read verse 2?"

 

[Willie T]

Oh...……… and I don't believe there is going to be any "surprise" Rapture, either. I probably will never understand the warnings to "Be ready, and keep watch, or you won't get to go with the rest of us."

 

[Scoot]

I spent 12 years in The Church of Christ, and this is the Typical Bible Class I remember:

Instructor: "Brother Jones, will you read Verse 1?"
Brother Jones reads it.
Instructor: "Brother Smith, can you tell us what that verse means?
Brother Smith: "Just what it says!"
All the Class: "AMEN!!!"
Instructor: "Thank you. Now, Brother Brown, will you read verse 2?"

I have spent too many years in church where the preacher has a 'good thought', goes to find bible verses that back that thought up, and then reads those bible verses. I was taught many years ago to read before and after to get the context - and the amount of times the verse was out of context (in some cases the complete opposite to what it was saying) - is frightening.

Yes - I believe God says what He means, and means what He says - but do we hear correctly what He's saying.

Oh...……… and I don't believe there is going to be any "surprise" Rapture, either. I probably will never understand the warnings to "Be ready, and keep watch, or you won't get to go with the rest of us."

I hope you're wrong - however I suspect that you may be right. In the past - God's people seemed to rarely understood prophecies correctly in advance - and more see it correctly when reflecting backwards after it's occurred. Yes - Daniel was right, and so were the Magi - but the majority from what I gather seemed to misunderstand. I can't help but wonder why we think that we're so much better that we will get it right this time.

I so look forward to a surprise rapture - but I have been having doubts whether that doctrine is the correct understanding indeed.

 

[Willie T]

It is approaching nighttime dog walking time, and then a shower here. I will pursue this on the 'morrow. OK?

 

[Nancy]

Maybe you and I won't lock heads as much as you think. ;-) (Maybe I gave you the wrong impression of me).

I do admit - I am very strong with my convictions, but I also believe myself to be open minded that I can be wrong - just as much as anyone else (or even deceived as well) - and if someone is able to show me evidence that supports where I'm wrong - I actually want to see it and be challenged.

I consider myself a fundamentalist in that if scripture says something that I believe - and people put up an argument against it using mans logic - I have no interest in it. However if they can put up an argument against it using scripture - or showing me how I've misunderstood or misinterpreted scripture - I'm very keen to hear them out.

It's one of the reasons I'm coming out of the Pentecostal movement. When I first heard John McArthur - I respected and appreciated a lot of his sermons. Then, I heard what He said about the majority of Charismatics following something that is not the Holy Spirit. That blew me away, and I almost discredited him - but there was something about it that made me reconsider why he would say such a thing. After seeing American Gospel, and then as I am now working my way through strange fire - I can't agree with everything that he mentions - but there is enough there that has me extremely concerned already that much of what he is saying is correct.

So a fundamentalist yes - but not to my interpretations - to scripture and I'm always open to someone showing me where I'm misunderstanding it. :)

Hi Scoot,
The Strange Fire panels were very informative. The spirit they speak of is called the Kundalini spirit. I have seen some of that persona, every Sunday for a bit over a year feeling both creeped out and unsaved, lol. So happy The Lord had different plans.

 

[theophilus]

Unfortunately, "Fundamentalist" is just about synonymous with Westboro Baptist, to me.

The existence of Westboro Baptist Church just proves that knowing the truth is not enough. We must also have love.

 

[Willie T]

I have spent too many years in church where the preacher has a 'good thought', goes to find bible verses that back that thought up, and then reads those bible verses. I was taught many years ago to read before and after to get the context - and the amount of times the verse was out of context (in some cases the complete opposite to what it was saying) - is frightening.

Yes - I believe God says what He means, and means what He says - but do we hear correctly what He's saying.

I hope you're wrong - however I suspect that you may be right. In the past - God's people seemed to rarely understood prophecies correctly in advance - and more see it correctly when reflecting backwards after it's occurred. Yes - Daniel was right, and so were the Magi - but the majority from what I gather seemed to misunderstand. I can't help but wonder why we think that we're so much better that we will get it right this time.

I so look forward to a surprise rapture - but I have been having doubts whether that doctrine is the correct understanding indeed.

Don't get me wrong. I also would love to be expecting to have no more troubles, and to get pulled out of here, leaving all this worldly hassle behind. I would also be thrilled if I could just believe for a brand new car, and, "poof" it would magically appear in my driveway. The childhood fantasy of a Santa Claus for adults or a magic lamp to rub still lives within me, the same as you.

 

[Enoch111]

Unfortunately, "Fundamentalist" is just about synonymous with Westboro Baptist, to me.

That's like making one rotten apple representative of a whole batch of good apples. Evidently you are not clear on the meaning of Fundamentalist. When theological liberalism mounted an attack on the Bible (and fundamental Bible doctrines) the fundamentalists opposed the liberals, and showed Christians that modernism was totally false. And that is still the case.

As to all this talk about manuscripts, Christians should be perfectly confident that the MAJORITY of Hebrew and Greek manuscripts in existence support the Reformation Bibles (of which the King James Bible is one). Furthermore, the large number of manuscripts which are in accord represent the original manuscripts (which do not exist). The Bible presents us with both the doctrine of divine inspiration, as well as the doctrine of divine preservation of the Scriptures. Inspiration without preservation is meaningless, but modern rationalistic critics attacked this doctrine and manufactured a false scenario about the Bible.

 

[Joseph77]

It's one of the reasons I'm coming out of the Pentecostal movement. When I first heard John McArthur - I respected and appreciated a lot of his sermons. Then, I heard what He said about the majority of Charismatics following something that is not the Holy Spirit. That blew me away, and I almost discredited him - but there was something about it that made me reconsider why he would say such a thing. After seeing American Gospel, and then as I am now working my way through strange fire - I can't agree with everything that he mentions - but there is enough there that has me extremely concerned already that much of what he is saying is correct.

(for future ...... ) a lot of what many false teachers say is true.
Who in the Garden tricked the most perfect people on earth with a partial truth ?
He still does that today, to billions of souls....

 

[Joseph77]

The existence of Westboro Baptist Church just proves that knowing the truth is not enough. We must also have love.

Perhaps those who denied the truth, did not deny it in love nor with love, nor with obedience ?

Sure, God scourges everyone who is His son, and there is not one who is not scourged who is His son...,
and God is perfect in knowing what love is , and what it isn't....
and God does what then - Reveals the Truth, or hides it ?
If wbc "knows the truth", and others reject the truth , for any reason, then who knows the truth ?
If knowing the truth is not enough, wbc needs something else then?
And what about others who reject the truth ? What do they need then ?

 

[farouk]

I have a couple of Spurgeons daily notes and sermons on prayer on my e reader.

@Rita I do love Spurgeon; his exposition of Scripture is always heart-warming.

 

[JPPT1974]

Praying it will be for you. God bless you! Hope you enjoy on here.

 

[stredaleve]

and you did fit in great