How are we saved from sin?

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Episkopos

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1. We are saved from past sins and then empowered to not sin through grace?

2. We are positionally saved from sin in advance since no one can ever stop sinning while in the present bodies? Sin is no longer an issue?

3. We must try really hard to stop sinning by our own efforts?

Which option best explains the truth?
 

aspen

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None of them do. All the options you put forth are mechanical. God does this, we get this and then this happens - it is void of intimacy and love. Instead, our salvation is a love story. The Holy Spirit seduces us like Song of Songs; we are seduced. Jesus justifies us; we respond by giving Him all of ourselves, including our faults and commit ourselves to Him, by leaving our old pleasures behind like rags. God (Father/Son/Holy Spirit) works for our sanctification and redemption - teaching us how to love completely and fully as we were created to do. Even when we are unfaithful to our Spouse, God searches for us like the Good Shepherd, woes us. and brings us back under His Wing. AMEN
 

veteran

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1. We are saved from past sins and then empowered to not sin through grace?

2. We are positionally saved from sin in advance since no one can ever stop sinning while in the present bodies? Sin is no longer an issue?

3. We must try really hard to stop sinning by our own efforts?

Which option best explains the truth?


Any one of those 3 choices by theirself is not the answer.

Rev 3:17-19
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of Me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
(KJV)

The shame and nakedness idea is about appearing in Heaven with a lack of the white raiment, the clothing of the righteous. Per Rev.14, our works follow us to Heaven. I assume our works in Christ Jesus is what will make up our white raiment in Heaven, according to the above passage.


1 Pet 4:8
8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
(KJV)

James 5:19-20
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
(KJV)
 

RichardBurger

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God covers us with His righteousness:

Isaiah 61:10
10 I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, My soul shall be joyful in my God; For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation, He has covered me with the robe of righteousness, As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments, And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.
NKJV

It is God that covers sinful men/women with His righteousness when we trust in Him.
 

Prentis

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1. We are saved from past sins and then empowered to not sin through grace?

2. We are positionally saved from sin in advance since no one can ever stop sinning while in the present bodies? Sin is no longer an issue?

3. We must try really hard to stop sinning by our own efforts?

Which option best explains the truth?

Number 1!

God is mighty to save... He doesn't need a scheme whereby he can justify us without changing us as though he himself were somehow powerless to do so!

What we must ultimately find out is who we end up being in the story of the 12 spies, or David and Goliath.

Are we the unbelieving spies? Or are we Joshua and Caleb, believing God above our eyes? Are we the brothers of David, mocking the faith displayed as though it were pride or madness? Or are we David, believing that indeed God can deliver us?

When we find out, we need to either make the necessary changes... Or keep going in the right direction... But let us all realize that the majority goes the first way. 10 did not believe, while 2 did. And David was alone, with 7 older brothers not believing. May we have the faith of the few!
 

aspen

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And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world. 1John2:2

Jiggy,

I am finding myself wanting to bring up universal salvation with you every time I read your posts - I think it is because universal salvation is so attractive! Perhaps, I am hoping to find a way to accept it. Anyway, back to the topic,
 

Yies1

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How are we saved from sin?


By loving God, each other, and our enemies.

By loving, I mean the love one has for those dearest to them. Be it their spouse, parents, siblings or friends. Not just a worshipful 'love', but true genuine Love.

God loves mankind with this 'True Love'. We break Gods heart all the time, because we don't yet really understand the love of God. God's Love is that of a parent to their child. Sin will end, when we mature our love to that of a parents love for ALL mankind.

Ideal Parent's have no enemies within their family, they love their children whatever.

They can do this because God made us in His image. Bad Parents are not 'bad', they just don't understand love.

Sin is the missuse of our own immature love.

The first step to removing sin, is to understand that we are ALL "one family under God". Even our enemies are part of our and God's family.
 

Episkopos

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How are we saved from sin?


By loving God, each other, and our enemies.

By loving, I mean the love one has for those dearest to them. Be it their spouse, parents, siblings or friends. Not just a worshipful 'love', but true genuine Love.

God loves mankind with this 'True Love'. We break Gods heart all the time, because we don't yet really understand the love of God. God's Love is that of a parent to their child. Sin will end, when we mature our love to that of a parents love for ALL mankind.

Ideal Parent's have no enemies within their family, they love their children whatever.

They can do this because God made us in His image. Bad Parents are not 'bad', they just don't understand love.

Sin is the missuse of our own immature love.

The first step to removing sin, is to understand that we are ALL "one family under God". Even our enemies are part of our and God's family.

There is an aspect of truth in this. Of course, taken in and of itself we are left with humanism and the "up with people" syndrome.

We must realize that love is the answer when we see love that comes from God...from above. Sometimes love has to rebuke! Sometimes love has to separate from things. Friendship with the world makes one an enemy of God after all. Love brings a sword and a purifying fire.

To walk in the Spirit is to walk in love. But the more we approach this love the less we will be liked by well meaning people. So we can't just use human inspired love as an ideal.
 

jiggyfly

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Jiggy,

I am finding myself wanting to bring up universal salvation with you every time I read your posts - I think it is because universal salvation is so attractive! Perhaps, I am hoping to find a way to accept it. Anyway, back to the topic,

Maybe God is revealing a new facet of His limitless Love to you. :)
 
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prism

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How are we saved from sin?


Christ and Him crucified/risen.
 

Episkopos

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The is a great difference between biblical faith and certainty. If we are convinced of something, does that make it true?

If faith was based on being absolutely convinced...then a man who was hypnotized to believe he could walk on water would then be able to do so.

Certainty is akin to a stubborn holding to the perception that you either adhere to or were conditioned to accept.

faith, on the other hand, is through doubt...doubt must not be thrown away....just overcome by faith in the one declaring the truth.

A brave man is not one who doesn't fear...but one who goes beyond his fear to do great things. He masters his fear. Somebody who has no fear at all, is simply foolish and a dare-devil.
 

jiggyfly

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The is a great difference between biblical faith and certainty. If we are convinced of something, does that make it true?

If faith was based on being absolutely convinced...then a man who was hypnotized to believe he could walk on water would then be able to do so.

Certainty is akin to a stubborn holding to the perception that you either adhere to or were conditioned to accept.

faith, on the other hand, is through doubt...doubt must not be thrown away....just overcome by faith in the one declaring the truth.

A brave man is not one who doesn't fear...but one who goes beyond his fear to do great things. He masters his fear. Somebody who has no fear at all, is simply foolish and a dare-devil.

I have to disagree with your last line E, John said perfect love casts out all fear, meaning fear is thrown out and evicted by perfect Love. He goes on to tell us that if there is any fear left in us it is only because God's love has not matured within us yet. 1John 4 is a good read and it compliments what Paul said in Eph. 3, "May you experience the love of Christ, though it is too great to understand fully. Then you will be made complete with all the fullness of life and power that comes from God."
Eph 3:19 (NLT)
 

Episkopos

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I have to disagree with your last line E, John said perfect love casts out all fear, meaning fear is thrown out and evicted by perfect Love. He goes on to tell us that if there is any fear left in us it is only because God's love has not matured within us yet. 1John 4 is a good read and it compliments what Paul said in Eph. 3, "May you experience the love of Christ, though it is too great to understand fully. Then you will be made complete with all the fullness of life and power that comes from God."
Eph 3:19 (NLT)

Does this mean you agree with the difference between faith and certainty?
 

RichardBurger

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I have to disagree with your last line E, John said perfect love casts out all fear, meaning fear is thrown out and evicted by perfect Love. He goes on to tell us that if there is any fear left in us it is only because God's love has not matured within us yet. 1John 4 is a good read and it compliments what Paul said in Eph. 3, "May you experience the love of Christ, though it is too great to understand fully. Then you will be made complete with all the fullness of life and power that comes from God."
Eph 3:19 (NLT)

I hope you don't mind but I would like to say what I feel about it. It is not our love that case out all fear, it is our faith in Jesus' love.

When a person truely has a matured faith in Jesus there is no room left for fear. I have no fear, not because I am sinless but because Jesus loved me (and all men) enough to hang on a cross while His blood poured out as a ransom to purchase me/us. If anyone truely believes in what Jesus did for them on the cross, without doubting, there is no room for fear.
 

Vashti

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When a person truely has a matured faith in Jesus there is no room left for fear. I have no fear, not because I am sinless but because Jesus loved me (and all men) enough to hang on a cross while His blood poured out as a ransom to purchase me/us. If anyone truely believes in what Jesus did for them on the cross, without doubting, there is no room for fear.

About what fear you say? Do you have someone so matured faith or perfect love that can say that he has no fear?

Mt 26:37-38 esv "(37) And taking with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, he began to be sorrowful and troubled. (38) Then he said to them, "My soul is very sorrowful, even to death; remain here, and watch with me.""

Łk 22:44 esv "(44) And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly; and his sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground."


Ap 1:17 esv "(17) When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, "Fear not, I am the first and the last,"


I understand the easily write the has no fear, when it is sitting in the warm home surrounded by loving family ...
 

Episkopos

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Perfect love casts out fear meaning that our love overcomes the fear in us. A brave man still fears...but his bravery is stronger than his fear.

A child cries when hurt. An adult still feels the pain, but doesn't cry because his ability to endure is stronger than the pain.
 

Episkopos

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Here is a question...

Is the requirement of the law fulfilled in Christ...or in us?
 

jiggyfly

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Perfect love casts out fear meaning that our love overcomes the fear in us. A brave man still fears...but his bravery is stronger than his fear.

A child cries when hurt. An adult still feels the pain, but doesn't cry because his ability to endure is stronger than the pain.

That's not what it means, it says love casts or throws out all fear, meaning that all fear is gone. Your little analogy about pain is not a good one when it comes to this subject. Maybe if you look at the Greek words used in the original text you will get a clearer understanding.