How can there be life after death?

[marks]

and understand that it cannot be taken at face value.

That's the issue. You think it cannot be believed, even though it is very plainly stated. You have all kinds of reasons, but they are the reasons why you reject God's Word.

Doesn't it cause one to wonder . . . how many other places have you worked out your reasons to deny their truth?

Much love!

 

[Adventageous]

In a plain narrative passage God informs us it was in fact Samuel, and you either believe the Bible to be true, or you do not, and clearly you do not. You've posted a list of reasons for which we should disbelieve God. Bravo!

What else will you not believe?

Much love!

In plain narrative passage The Holy Spirit informs us it was in fact a 'familiar spirit' proclaming itself to be the deceased prophet "Samuel"; that Saul had grieved away the Holy Ghost, and an "evil spirit" was always around him, and inspired him to seek the council of a witch (necromancer) in enemy territory outside of Canaan, under the cover of darkness, and a under the cover of a lie, pretending to be someone else, with human guards for protection, rather than JEHOVAH Elohiym.

1Sa_28:7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.​

​

1Sa_28:8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.​

​

1Ch_10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;​

The real prophet Samuel was dead, buried in Ramah in Canaan.

1Sa 28:3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city. And Saul had put away those that had familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land.​

Either you believe the Bible to be true, or you do not. Clearly you desire to believe something that the Bible does not sanction, being 'immortal soul / spirit' theology, through which lens / glasses you read the text.

I have posted the valid contextual scriptural reasons that the "familiar spirit" is not the actual prophet "Samuel", including that the entity that works through the witch at Endor, lies, and does not speak the whole truth, as already pointed out. So the reasons given, from the context, are why we should believe God's words over a doctrine of devils, who said in Gen. 3:4, "not surely die", being "immortal soul / spirit theology", a doctrine of the heathen / pagan nations that surrounded God's people, which is why they practiced such things as 'necromancy', had 'familiar spirits', &c.

So, I do, indeed, believe the whole Bible, as demonstrated. I have provided valid scriptural reasons. What have you provided in return? You have simply provided 'you', and the 6 places which uses the word "Samuel" (1 Sam. 28:11,12,14,15,16,20 KJB), but not in proper connection with the words "familiar spirit/s" (1 Sam. 28:3,7,8,9; 1 Chr. 10:13), or the fact that Saul "enquired" of the "woman", through whom the "familiar spirit" spake through (1 Chr. 10;13; Isa. 29:4 KJB).

Perhaps you can explain how a witch, in enemy territory (Endor), could "bring ... up" the dead and buried (in Ramah) "Samuel"?​

​

Perhaps you can explain why this "Samuel" would lie to, and deceive, Saul, by the information provided, in a hopeless message?​

​

Perhaps you can explain why the LORD (JEHOVAH), in 1 Sam. 28:6,15 KJB refused to answer Saul by any method approved of by the LORD, such as, dreams (personal), Urim (High priest), or prophets (messengers from God, as Samuel had been in life)?​

​

Perhaps you can explain why the text says that for Saul to do such a thing as he did, in enquiring of the woman, and her "familiar spirit", was under a death penalty (1 Sam. 28:3,10; 1 Chr. 10:13)?​

​

Perhaps you can explain why the context is exclusive (as you believe) of the devil pretending to be a deceased person, and speaking in their stead, just as is done at modern seances, and ancient necromancy rituals? -

What else will you not believe? I can tell you, because you hold the doctrine of 'immortal soul / spirit theology', you cannot believe the Everlasting Gospel, as you must also believe that the 'old man of sin' also does not die, but lives forever, as natural & spiritual are connected, and so cannot ever have victory over sin - ever. You must also believe in 'ETC", or eternal conscious torment, which makes JEHOVAH Elohiym, not only sadisitic, and unjust, but also the sustainer of prolongation of sin, and sinners in an ever increasing capacity.

My love to you is my responses of evidences from the text and the warning therein.

 

[Aunty Jane]

@Aunty Jane I simply don't have the time to respond to every point, it would take way too long.

I understand Jericho....but sometimes things need an explanation so that the truth has a chance to be heard...how can people make reasonable decisions about what is Bible truth and what is not?

Look at what people have to wade through with all the differing beliefs of Christendom? How can they tell who is right and who is wrong, if the truth is buried under a mound of satanic lies?

This is a time for decisions to be made about what is Bible truth and what is masquerading as such.
God will “draw” individuals who are sincerely seeking perhaps an inconvenient truth...rather than accepting popular lies.(John 6:44;65)

Even atheists and non-believers have had NDEs. So, it’s not faith dependent. The fact that they have a common theme should be telling. The most simple explanation is because they're true.

Or the other most common factor they have in common is that satan has a counterfeit “Christianity” that he has promoted for centuries, and most people have accepted it as truth......it’s the majority who have taken the bait as Jesus warned...the “many” are on the wrong road, whereas the “few” have taken the exit. (Matt 7:13-14)

I would agree only to a certain point. I don’t believe we become ghosts as in ethereal disembodied spirits. Even demons have a body; they’re just not made of the same physical substance we are. So, if you can believe demons and angels exist as non-physical beings, I don’t know why it’s such a stretch to extend that concept to humans, who were created but a little lower than angels.

I go strictly by what the Bible says....not cherry picked bits of it that seem to suggest what the majority believe...but in its entirety.....it is one book, with one story, and one author. We have to know what it teaches, and how the audience to whom it was directed, accepted and understood it.

So what does the Bible tell us about angels and their appearance? Those who have been seen only in visions are a far cry from what is depicted in personal visitations recorded in the Bible.
Angels appeared to God’s earthly servants as men...in human form...so human in fact that they ate and drank what was offered to them, and as Jesus did after his resurrection. Was their human form a materialisation? Was Jesus human form after his resurrection, the same? Spirit beings apparently have that ability. When the messengers had delivered their message, they simply dematerialized and went back to their spirit form to return to heaven. On one occasion, Jesus was dining with his disciples unrecognised and when he broke the bread in his particular way, they knew it was him, and he simply disappeared before their eyes.

There is so much more to this than most people realise. Jesus was resurrected as a spirit, not a man of flesh. He sacrificed that body for mankind and did not take it back.
The wound marks that the ‘doubting Thomas’ wanted to see, were provide for him, but at other times Jesus had no evidence of the torture he had suffered before his death.

If God’s son healed the sick and disabled with God’s power, why would his Father raise his son with the wounds of his torture? Have you never wondered?
Many times his disciples did not recognise him....he appeared to be a stranger.

Even if that were possible, and we don’t know that it is, it still would not invalidate all NDE experiences. Also, it would not make sense for Satan to deceive a believer in this way because nothing would be gained. If he showed them an afterlife that didn't exist, so what? A believer would still be resurrected all the same.

I don’t think you have thought this through....satan was going to produce a counterfeit “Christianity”...the “weeds” of Jesus’ parable....we all know what weeds do if left unchecked and removed from a garden. They take over and steal the goodness from the soil that the genuine plants need for growth....choking them out or impeding their progression to maturity.

The “weed” used in Jesus parable is said to be “bearded darnell” which is a common poisonous weed in the Middle East...the blight of wheat farmers, as it is said to be “wheat’s evil twin”.
It looks just like wheat in its early growth, so not until the plant is well established can you tell the difference, but by that stage the root systems of both are so intertwined that removal would mean uprooting the wheat with the weeds....the farmer had no choice but to allow both to grow to the harvest time when separation would allow the reapers to take out all the weeds and burn them....leaving a reduced harvest for the farmers storehouse. Think about what that means when reading Jesus parable. (Matt 13:24-30, 36-42)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Continued....

It should be apparent from the New Testament that they did if you don’t allegorize it away. It may be more obscure in the Old Testament, but then so is the resurrection. It can’t be presumed that all was revealed to them and they knew everything. There was clearly more revelation given to the New Testament saints than to the Old Testament saints.

If Jesus and his apostles raised the dead, then there was a personal demonstration of the resurrection. Elijah had raised a widow’s child back to life....they knew exactly what a resurrection meant....according to Jewish belief.....and the condition of the dead from their own Scripture. It was like an awakening from sleep.

Belief in life after death is held by all false religion.....the Jews did not hold such a belief because it is a satanic lie, meant to promote the very thing he told the woman in Eden...”you surely will not die”....it’s as plain as day if you haven’t swallowed the same lie under a different religious system.

I would say he was in Abraham’s bosom. I think it’s interesting that there is also a Lazarus in Jesus’ parable who was clearly dead but conscious. I don't know if they're the same person, and it wouldn’t matter if they weren't, but the concept of Abraham’s bosom is a biblical one.

Do you know what the “bosom” meant in Jewish belief?
In the case of the rich man and Lazarus, the beggar got to be in “the bosom of Abraham”...not the bosom of God. The Pharisees held that position until Christ came and exposed them as frauds and hypocrites.
The “bosom” was a position of favour with God, which was held by the Jews as proof of their divine choosing as God’s chosen nation....all, as descendants of Abraham were God’s possession from birth.

But with the coming of the Messiah the beggar who pictured the lost sheep to whom Jesus was sent, gained what the Pharisees lost....the position of God’s favour as his people. Their deaths were a change of status from God’s perspective....they changed places, causing great torment to the rich man.

You have to understand that Jesus was Jewish with an exclusively Jewish audience who understood his teachings through a Jewish lens.....not the lens provided by the misled multitudes in Christendom.

We know they are not omniscient like God. They can try and guess the future, but they can’t make it happen.

Job is proof of their capabilities. It wasn’t God who afflicted Job. They can do whatever God permits them to do....why else are we living in this wicked world?

On that point, you say that the only ones who inhabit the spirit realm are spirits. But look at Jesus in his resurrected body. He could be seen and touched; he could eat and drink. But he also ascended to heaven in his resurrected body. Clearly then, a resurrected body is capable of operating in both the physical and spiritual realms. If Jesus is the firstfruits (1 Cor 15:20), and we will be like Him (1 Jo 3:2), then what is true of Him is destined for us.

You are speaking of God’s elect...not all are elected which word means “chosen”. These are chosen by God, so we know that they will rule with Christ in his Kingdom as God already knows they will...it’s why he chose them. (Rev 20:6)

There are two resurrections...one to heaven for the elect, and the other to a restoration of life on earth.

“The meek will inherit the earth”....not heaven.
The coming of the Kingdom will mean that God’s will can be “done on earth as it is in heaven”....who will do the will of God on earth but human beings?...many of whom come back in the foretold resurrection. (John 5:28-29)

We will reign on earth (Rev 5:9–10), but we will also be seated in heavenly places (Eph 2:6). Our future destination then is not restricted to earth but all of God’s creation will be accessible to us. A physical body can't operate in the heavenly realm, and a heavenly body can't operate in this physical realm. One body is made for earth; the other is made for heaven. But a resurrected body is made for the day when both realms are fully united.

I believe you have that all messed up. Who is “we” in your scenario there?
God designed spirts to live in the spirit realm, and humans to live in an earthly material realm.
In order to take his elect to heaven, God gives them a spirit body when they are resurrected. This what it means to be “born again”...they are reborn as spirits.

Those not elected to heaven will enjoy the best rulership humans have ever had with Christ and his elect bringing redeemed mankind back into reconciliation with their Creator.
God’s first purpose for the earth and mankind upon it, will be restored. (Isa 55:11)

Ancient Israel certainly did borrow ideas from their pagan Mesopotamian neighbors from the start. The Nephesh, for instance, is almost identical to the Akkadian napīštu. And the concept of Sheol is very similar to Kur (Sumerian) and Irkalla (Akkadian). Not all things were revealed to ancient Israel by God. They didn't know, for example, that the Messiah would be born of a virgin, though hints were given. Nor did they foresee the church age or the inclusion of the gentiles. Such things would have been foreign to them. Therefore, their knowledge and understanding of things were incomplete.

That is correct to a degree....but Isaiah had told them that their Messiah would be born of a virgin in the small town of Bethlehem.
As for the inclusion of of gentiles, God’s promise to Abraham already included them.

“I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and as the sand that is on the seashore. And your offspring shall possess the gate of his enemies, and in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed my voice.” (Gen 22:17-18 ESV)

The blessings would come through God’s chosen ones as Abraham’s offspring, but “all the nations” were going to be blessed through them. God tolerated so much from them as he waited patiently to bring his Messiah into the world. When they rejected Jesus, God rejected them....and chose a new “Israel”. (Gal 6:16)

Obviously, how you interpret “fallen asleep” is different than how I do. “Falling asleep” to me is a euphemism, as someone dead has the appearance of someone asleep.

The Bible writers use “fallen asleep” to describe death...period.
Even as Jesus did when talking about his friend Lazarus. (John 11:11-14)
Even Paul tells us that those who have “fallen asleep” would not be resurrected before the other members of the elect.
He said....
“But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope.”
So he is clearly speaking about those who are dead.....who have the hope of the resurrection.

“For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.”
Those who were ‘sleeping’ in death were about to be awakened....to join their Lord.

“For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.”

The dead were not to precede the living in their resurrection, but were to await the “cry of command” where all the dead in Christ will rise first.....together at Christ’s return.

“For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.” (1 Thess 4:13-17 ESV)

There is a sequence of events described here....one that does not fit in with your beliefs about life after death. None of “the dead in Christ” (the elect) were to be resurrected prior to Christ’s return.

 

[marks]

In plain narrative passage The Holy Spirit informs us it was in fact a 'familiar spirit' proclaming itself to be the deceased prophet "Samuel";

Not so. Read the verses you posted. We are told that Saul sought someone with a familiar spirit, but does not say that spirit impersonated Samuel. And in fact the Bible is very specific, that Samuel himself spoke to Saul.

Either you believe the Bible to be true, or you do not. Clearly you desire to believe something that the Bible does not sanction,

You too! Declaring me to be intellectually dishonest. Remember . . . your words don't reveal me, they reveal you.

The fact is . . . Saul wanted someone with a familiar spirit, but it was Samuel who answered him. Surprise!!

It turns out that the Bible says something particular, that Samuel spoke to Saul. I happen to believe it, you happen to not. Let's all just own our stances, shall we? And not declare others to be liars, and lovers of lies. OK?

Much love!

 

[Aunty Jane]

That's the issue. You think it cannot be believed, even though it is very plainly stated. You have all kinds of reasons, but they are the reasons why you reject God's Word.

The reasons are stated in other Scripture....necromancy was forbidden in Israel. Saul broke God’s law to consult a spirit medium when God had commanded him to remove them from the land.

Jews were not taught about immortal souls...they adopted that notion later, along with Christendom from pagan Greek ideas.
You are free to believe them, but it shows that you are not familiar with the Bible on this subject...only on Christendom’s theology.

Doesn't it cause one to wonder . . . how many other places have you worked out your reasons to deny their truth

Actually, it’s what caused me to test out Christendom’s doctrines for myself, by a study of the whole Bible, not cherry picked bits of it that seem to suggest what the scriptures never stated.

Life after death is one of those beliefs....and it was very personal to me because I lost my father in death at a young age and I wanted to know where he was.....as he was not a church goer, and my church taught that those who did not worship God were destined for a very unpleasant future.
He was a good man who had had his faith shattered by a family tragedy. The church he sent us to never once offered any spiritual assistance to him, but accepted his money every week in the collection plate.

Some weeks after his death, two ladies from that church showed up at our door to collect the money we owed them....needless to say we sent them off and never went back to that church again.

But my desire for answers never went away. I tried other denominations but found them to be exactly the same under a different banner. No one could answer my questions from the Bible, and I had no time for those who said “I think” the Bible means this or that....so I undertook a study of the Bible alone...without theology getting in the way.....it was an eye opener, just allowing the Bible to speak for itself....the average church goer has no idea what the whole Bible really teaches.

 

[Adventageous]

Not so.

Indeed so. See how that works? You make a statement, backed by 'you'. I provided the context on several occasions:

- How can there be life after death?
- How can there be life after death?

Read the verses you posted.

It goes without saying, that I "Read the verses (I) posted", otherwise, logically, how could I post them? I have to go look them up, in their context, select the entire verses, and copy them, then paste them, then double check my post before I hit "post reply".

We are told that Saul sought someone with a familiar spirit,

Yep.

but does not say that spirit impersonated Samuel.

Yes it does. Saul spoke to the witch. The witch was asked, by Saul, to speak with and divine by a "familiar spirit" whom he (Saul) called "Samuel". She sees "gods" (elohiym; plurality, not singularity, mighty ones, not nevi-im; prophets). Saul sees nothing. The woman speaks on behalf of the "familiar spirit" whom is from the time Saul speaks the name "Samuel", as "Samuel", and even mimicked being "covered with a mantle". That is deception.

1Sa 28:6 And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.​

1Sa 28:7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.​

1Sa 28:8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.​

​

1Sa 28:11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.​

1Sa 28:12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.​

1Sa 28:13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.​

1Sa 28:14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.​

Notice, Saul is speaking always to the woman. The woman is relaying what she 'sees'. When the 'familiar spirit', by which the woman is diving "by" speaks, it is not directly to Saul, for Saul sees and hears nothing except through the woman before him. This is how all mediums / witches work. The devils speak through the medium, as the devil did through the serpent to Eve in Gen. (btw; a 'spirit' needs clothing? "covered with a mantle"), what is being clothed? See 2 Cor. 5:3, the state in death, 'naked'.)

Of course the devil knows how to appear as a "messenger [angel] of light" (2 Cor. 11:14 KJB), and mimick the appearance of the deceased Samuel.

1Sa 28:3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city. And Saul had put away those that had familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land.​

And in fact the Bible is very specific, that Samuel himself spoke to Saul.

Yes, the Bible is very specific, in that it clearly shows that the named "Samuel" of the witch of Endor was simply the "familiar spirit" by which the woman was divining by, and not the actual dead prophet Samuel, buried in another city in a differing country. I also noticed you avoided all of my questions. How does a necromancing witch have any authority over God's prophets to call them in such a manner? How is it that God was no longer speaking to Saul by prophets, and suddenly here is a witch doing so?

You too! Declaring me to be intellectually dishonest.

Something about a shoe fitting goes here.

Remember . . . your words don't reveal me, they reveal you.

Remember the 4th commandment. Those who do not reveal themselves.

The fact is . . .

The Bible is the facts, so I do not need your redefinition of that word. Thank you.

Saul wanted someone with a familiar spirit,

Yep, and got what he asked for.

but it was Samuel who answered him. Surprise!!

That is not what the text states at all. It states, clearly that Samuel the prophet was dead and buried in another city in another country. That Saul had to go outside of God's people, to a practicing necromancer / witch, to divine by a "familiar spirit", and pretend to be someone he was not to do so, since God was no longer speaking to him by any legitimate means, which included "prophets".

No, Saul asks for the woman to "divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee. "

Saul, the one forsaken of God's Holy Spirit, named the name "Samuel". The Bible simply records the conversation under that aspect, treating the "familiar spirit" as if it were "Samuel" to Saul. The devil, "familiar spirit", even played the part, appearing to the woman, as if it were "Samuel". Then this "familiar spirit" speaks to Saul through the voice of the woman. This is how all such mediums / spiritists / necromancers work today.

It turns out that the Bible says something particular,

It surely does. Just re-read what I underlined above from the text itself.

that Samuel spoke to Saul.

Actually, no. The "familiar spirit" under the name that Saul named, "Samuel" spoke to Saul through / by the witch, which had the "familiar spirit". I already cited those texts.

I happen to believe it

No, you happen to be arguing in a circle, merely citing 'you' in evidence. This means you are simply believing what you already wanted to believe.

, you happen to not.

I have demonstrated, going on ad nauseum that I, indeed, do. :)

Let's all just own our stances, shall we?

I have. I am awaiting for you to do so.

And not declare others to be liars, and lovers of lies. OK?

I didn't say you were a liar, even once. Therefore, whom is making such accusation here?

Much love!

Much love!

Love is defined by scripture (1 Jhn. 4:8,16 KJB), and yet making such earlier statements as you have about "declare others to be liars", when such never did, is not love at all. It is delusional.

 

[Taken]

How can there be life after death?

How IS via Gods Power.
How IS via Gods Offering.
WHY IS Gods Offering via Gods Pleasure.

God Creates A mans (natural) Body (vessel)
God Makes that Body Alive.
God Takes A mans Natural Life Away.
God Offers A man, A new (Spiritual) Body, with a new Life, that will Never Die).
Man can Freely TAKE or REJECT Gods Offering.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[marks]

Something about a shoe fitting goes here.

Doubling down on this, so childish!

Based on what you've written, maybe a refresher on logical fallacies is in order, including the meaning of "intellectual dishonesty".

This discussion, like so many on this forum, sinks once again to the ad hominems, as you forget that it's you that is revealed by your words, not me.

More's the pity!

 

[marks]

How can there be life after death?

How IS via Gods Power.
How IS via Gods Offering.
WHY IS Gods Offering via Gods Pleasure.

God Creates A mans (natural) Body (vessel)
God Makes that Body Alive.
God Takes A mans Natural Life Away.
God Offers A man, A new (Spiritual) Body, with a new Life, that will Never Die).
Man can Freely TAKE or REJECT Gods Offering.

Glory to God,
Taken

They can believe God gives life, but cannot believe God continues to give life?

Can you receive what you don't believe to be real? There's a question!

Much love!

 

[Taken]

They can believe God gives life, but cannot believe God continues to give life?

Can you receive what you don't believe to be real? There's a question!

Much love!

I would say the Creation… Body forming
IS ONE ACT.

AND… conjunction…”something Additionally”…

The MAKING of that Creation.
Ie. MAKING that creation “naturally” ALIVE.
iS ANOTHER ACT.

The Spiritual (phenomena)
From our Spiritual Spirit God.
A “continual… and, and, and…MAKING”
is Gods GIFT Offering…
For the Freely Willing …
To TAKE
Or
Not.

Gen 2:
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

John 1:
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

A mankind creation receiving (natural) LIFE… is the MAKING, of a temporary LIFE.

A mankind creation receiving (spiritual) LIFE
Is the MAKING, of a permanent LIFE.

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[marks]

I would say the Creation… Body forming
IS ONE ACT.

AND… conjunction…”something Additionally”…

The MAKING of that Creation.
Ie. MAKING that creation “naturally” ALIVE.
iS ANOTHER ACT.

The Spiritual (phenomena)
From our Spiritual Spirit God.
A “continual… and, and, and…MAKING”
is Gods GIFT Offering…
For the Freely Willing …
To TAKE
Or
Not.

Gen 2:
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

John 1:
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

A mankind creation receiving (natural) LIFE… is the MAKING, of a temporary LIFE.

A mankind creation receiving (spiritual) LIFE
Is the MAKING, of a permanent LIFE.

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

Well said!

I'm reminded also of Romans 8,

Romans 8:10-11 KJV
10) And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Not only does God sustain our spirit life, He also sustains our physical life.

Much love!

 

[Aunty Jane]

They can believe God gives life, but cannot believe God continues to give life?

You are mistaken….the Bible says that God resurrects the dead to “continue life”….it doesn’t say that we have an immortal soul that continues to live in the spirit realm immediately after death. Nothing leaves the body except the last breath. (spirit)

I would ask you to furnish one single verse that has the words “immortal soul” in any Bible passage.
There is no such thing…..it was satan who gave humans the notion of an immortal soul to perpetuate his first lie….”you surely will not die”…..it taps into man’s desire to keep living as we have no ‘program’ for death. It wasn’t supposed to happen. (Eccl 3:11) The death of a loved one is an unnatural event that causes us extreme distress. If they have all gone to a better place why do we grieve?

God told Adam that he would “die and return to dust”…so who was the liar? (Gen 3:19)
“The tree of life“ in the garden would allow humans to live forever in mortal flesh, but only if they were obedient.

Gen 3:22-24..
The Lord God said, “The man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. And now, he might reach out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. He drove the man out, and at the east of the garden of Eden He placed the cherubim and a flaming sword which turned in every direction, to guard the way to the tree of life.”(MEV)

Do you understand why it was there with the other tree? One life giving…the other death dealing?

With no access to “the tree of life”, death would overtake them…and the far reaching effects of sin would make their shortened lives miserable.

If the first humans had not succumbed to the devil’s temptations, everlasting life, right here on earth, would have been their eternal future…..no aging, no pain, sickness or death….they would still be here with us enjoying the fruits of their labors with all their progeny.

Earth was never meant to be a training ground for heaven….and only the “chosen ones” (elect) will ever experience a rebirth to spirit life in heaven. They were chosen for that specific purpose.
The apostle Paul clearly stated that this “first resurrection” would not take place until Christ’s return.
1 Thess 4: 13-17….read it for yourself.

This is reiterated in Rev 20:6 where this “first resurrection” is mentioned again.

A resurrection is a return to life….not a continuation of it.
Those who receive the “first resurrection” will become ‘rulers and priests’ in the Kingdom with Jesus…..but who are their subjects?

Many of them will come back to life in the resurrection that Jesus spoke about, when he will call all the dead from their graves. (John 5:28-29) This is the other resurrection….a second, general restoration of life….here on earth, where God put us in the first place.
If he had wanted us in heaven, he would have created us there, like he did the angels….

The life humans were given in Eden was never supposed to end, but sin was introduced into man’s life through disobedience, and death came as the stated penalty.
Jesus came to pay that penalty for us, and redeem the now flawed human race…..and his Kingdom will “come” and restore all that we lost due to the rebellion that took place back then. (1 John 3:8)

Not all Christians are chosen for a role in heaven….and it is God who chooses them. We don’t get granted life in heaven just for being a Christian. “Saved” doesn’t mean heaven…it means everlasting life…..restored.

Heaven was already heavily populated when God created the Universe…..material creation was something new….with a different population…lower creatures, in mortal bodies.

Can you receive what you don't believe to be real? There's a question!

That’s really a dumb question based on very flawed theology.

Life is real, but a little more study is needed for the word “spirit”….it has many meanings and context dictates what “spirit“ is intended.

“Spirit” is not another word for “soul”.
“God is a spirit”…(John 4:24) and so are all his angels.
Please do some research….and get your “spirits” sorted.

 

[Taken]

Well said!

I'm reminded also of Romans 8,

Romans 8:10-11 KJV
10) And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Amen.

Body MUST DIE…
* God Requires all natural body’s to Die.
Gen 9:5
* no “spiritual Rebirth” can Occur UNTIL the Body is “MADE” ( accounted DEAD )
( believer crucified with Jesus…
( or believers physical mortal death…
1 Cor 15:36

Spirit MADE ( quickened, born again, via Gods SEED, forever MADE alive)


The SOUL is Gods.
Ezek 18:4
The SOULS LIFE is GODS BREATH
The SOUL given MAKES our “communication” / Senses Functional.
Eyes, see; Nose, Smell; Mouth, utters Sounds; Tongue, Tastes; Flesh, Feels.
* IN or OUT of the Body, a SOUL maintains its functions… AS Long as Gods LIFE remains in the Soul.

All souls in a Natural Body, become Corrupt.
God can, ( for the Freely Willing ), MAKE a Soul “Restored”…. Back to “Good”, as it was when God gave it.
Pss 23:3

Not only does God sustain our spirit life, He also sustains our physical life.

Yes.
The Body is Created and Made out of its “habitat” Earth.
The “Earth” has all the minerals, to “replenish” and “sustain” the minerals IN the Body, to “maintain” the body’s Life…
Plants, Fruit, Animals, draw the minerals out of the Earth, transfers those minerals to the man who consumes them.

( Sad, man busy’s himself with “corrupting” Gods natural “sustaining” provisions. )
Greed, Control, ignorance.

Gods Grace, for a Believers Inner Peace.
God is not Finished… MAKING

Much love!

Ditto.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[marks]

I would ask you to furnish one single verse that has the words “immortal soul” in any Bible passage.

I would ask you to furnish just one verse that says "Jesus is Michael", and you see the silliness of dictating what you require be worded in some certain way.

And it's not a dumb question, that's just you being demeaning. I understand, you have no real argument except to say, "The Bible says this, but means that", and what kind of answer is that?

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth, this is a declarative statement in a narrative passage. If you believe this, why do you have such a difficulty believing "Samuel spoke to Saul" when the Bible says it in just the same way?

So you say I ask a dumb question, but James answers in the affirmative, yes, this is also addressed in Scripture,

James 1:6-7 KJV
6) But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7) For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

Much love!

 

[Adventageous]

I would ask you to furnish just one verse that says "Jesus is Michael"

That is the logical fallacy I like to call "Show me "Potato Salad!"" fallacy.

It goes like this:

"Another way to look at this. Consider a common Islamic Muslim Dawah ‘challenge’: “Show me,” says the zealous Muslim, “just one place in the entire Bible where Jesus says exactly, “I am God, worship me!”” The challenge is a complete fraud, and so is the devil who came up with it and passed it along to his worshippers. The person is not looking for truth about Jesus, or what Jesus or others said about Him. They are simply looking to have a cheap and empty victory, since the ‘question’ or ‘challenge’ (a vain ‘gotcha’) is designed to have no answer. It is the same to those who say, “Show me one place in the Bible (or even out of the SoP / ToJ) where the exact phrase “God the Son”, or “God the Holy Ghost / Spirit” appears.” They will wait forever, and never will they be shown such a place, and they already know it, before they ask it. It is not a genuine question or challenge.​

​

Maybe if it is presented in a humorous way it will ‘stick’ a bit better. There was an old game show on television (still around, but re-vamped a little), called “Family Feud” (terrible name). In this show, the contestants would have to guess words up on the board that were hidden from view that were related to a main word or key phrase. The participants would have to guess at those words or phrases based only on the starting word or phrase. If the game-player guessed incorrectly, and their guess-word did not appear on the board, they would receive an “[X]” or a strike. 3 “[X]’s”, or strikes, and their “Family” would lose the round. What if the starting phrase was, “Something at a family picnic.” The persons on the show might guess all manner of things, however, for this example, the guess by contestant Mr. ‘P. G. Sr.’ will be “Potato Salad”. He says to the Host boldly, while simultaneously pointing fiercely with his right arm thrust out and index finger ram-rod straight towards the open air, “Show me ‘Potato Salad!’”​

​

Lo, and behold, the exact words “Potato Salad” do not appear on the board, and he is about to receive a nasty red “[X]” with deep crimson-faced shame. Ah, how sad for Mr. ‘P. G. Sr.’. And how sad for all those ‘contestants’ who play the silly game of ‘Show me the EXACT phrase of such and such in the Bible.’ However, the Host, who knows better, and with more grace than some religionists, turns over a board piece, and it reads, “Salad made out of Potatoes.” Grace upon grace, the Host turns over another board piece just after the first, and it reads, “Cold salted spuds in a creamy white sauce and mixed veggies”. And, finally, for the “pièce de résistance”, the Host, with overflowing charity and a broad knowing gregarious and infectious smile, and with a bit of elegant flair, flips over the final winning piece, that reads, “Tater-salad.”​

​

Did “Potato Salad” appear on the board, yes or no? Yes and no. Likewise, just because the exact words of letters arranged in a specific order do not appear in the Bible does not automatically mean that like phrases do not exist, or that entire ideas exist in phrases stated after another fashion."​

​

The scriptures teach that Michael is simply another name for the Son of God, just like Emmanuel, Jesus, &c., are. See this work - Michael The Archangel Who Is Like Unto God The Highest Messenger (BOOK) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

All of Christianity from the first 1st century have taught this, including nearly the entire Reformation / Reformers.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I would ask you to furnish just one verse that says "Jesus is Michael", and you see the silliness of dictating what you require be worded in some certain way.

Do you know the difference between a belief and a doctrine, Marks?
We believe that Jesus and Micheal are one and the same person in different roles because when Jesus had completed his earthly assignment, he received a new name…..God has only one name, (Yahweh) but Jesus has a few different ones, mentioned in Scripture.
Phil 2:9 speaks of a new name and Rev 3:12 also mentions it, but it is not revealed…..

It is also true that both are called Princes (Daniel 10:13; 12:1…)and that both are said to command the angelic forces. (Rev 12:7-8)

Because there is no trinity in the Bible, there is no impediment to Jesus the man, having been Michael the Archangel in heaven before his human birth. It is a belief we hold but because there is no clear statement about it, it is not a doctrine.
And since there is no clear statement as to Jesus and his Father being part of a triune god, Christendom has made their unsubstantiated belief into a doctrine, with no clear evidence that it’s true. Inference isn’t fact.

So is the pot calling the kettle black here?

And it's not a dumb question, that's just you being demeaning. I understand, you have no real argument except to say, "The Bible says this, but means that", and what kind of answer is that?

After over 50 years of intense Bible study, I will defend the truth of the Bible over Christendom’s confusing rabble any day. Having studied the whole Bible and not just Christendom’s theology….I can tell you that the cherry picked verses used to support the trinity, are shot down very quickly.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth, this is a declarative statement in a narrative passage. If you believe this, why do you have such a difficulty believing "Samuel spoke to Saul" when the Bible says it in just the same way?

I believe that the demon who impersonated Samuel spoke to the woman who conjured him up.
This is what spirit mediums do…they are the channel for these spirits to speak. It is why God forbade Israel to “enquire of the dead”….it was an offense punishable by death. (Deut 18:9-12)
And Saul was the one who banished them. What excuse could he have to gain counsel from a faithful prophet who was no longer in the land of the living.
You are allowing your beliefs to dictate Scripture rather than the other way around.

Does God allow his dead prophets to break his law?
Because of his disobedience, the living prophets would not speak to Saul.
Understand what you are reading in its context….or your quotes will make a fool of you.

So you say I ask a dumb question, but James answers in the affirmative, yes, this is also addressed in Scripture,

James 1:6-7 KJV
6) But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7) For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

Seriously, you think this is what James was referring to?
He was talking about the doubters…the indecisive ones who switch back and forth because they can’t make up their minds about what to believe….

Perhaps a more modern and accurate translation is in order…?

“If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him. But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. For that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.” (James 1: 5-7 ESV)

Now does it make sense? Not really applicable in this context, is it…?

 

[2bme]

Do you think I should write another love poem to my daughter. I can feel her prompting me for one, but I'm frazzled and can't write anything. I want to but I've got writer's block.

 

[2bme]

You remember when Jesus said that in order to follow him you must hate your own life in comparison. I'm so lazy when it comes to finding that verse. Alright I'll get that verse, fuuuuuuuudge! I hate having to source bible information for you people, because you don't respect or follow your own beliefs anyway.

John 12:25
Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

 

[2bme]

Alright then. I don't disagree with you. I should die.