How Confidant Are You Being Saved?

[marks]

Rather than try to make this personal, answer my question first.

Naturally you won't want to answer his question.

The answer to yours:

Galatians 5:16-17 KJV
16) This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17) For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Romans 7:21-23 KJV
21) I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

The conflict against the flesh continues.

But you know about this, right? You aren't trying to tell us you no longer sin, are you?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Here's the line that I draw; I am certain God can save me. While I believe I am saved, humility prevents me from claiming I am certain of my individual fate.

Robert Rogers was on his death bed and asked his wife if he was a sheep or a goat. Mrs. Rogers said you are a sheep if there has ever been a sheep. If Mr. Rogers questioned his fate, had the humility to question his fate, there is no way I am going to claim I have been as much of a sheep as he.

1 John 5:13 KJV
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

God makes His intent clear, that we can KNOW we have eternal life. Rejecting this in favor of some notion of humility is a false humility. If you lack confidence, wouldn't it be better to settle the matter now . . . before it's too late?

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Rather than try to make this personal, answer my question first.

I am not trying to make it personal

what about them, Is anyone sinless? 1 John 1: 8 answers this

if they are not. then everyone sins correct?

so you tell me. what about them? Are they saved or lost?

ie. your question is prety much invalid. all have sined, are sinning and will sin, and fall short of the glory of God

the wage of sin is death. the gift of God is life.

so what about a person who accepted the gift of life.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

a question: then after your saved can you rob banks, murder the gaurds, spend the cash on drunken revelry with whores and still be saved, die and go directly to heaven?

why do legalistic believers always act like pharisees and try to point the finger at certain sins?

Do you still sin? That what makes you any different than any of those people?

A child of God can not live in sin.

But they can still sin.

worry about your own sin, and not the sin of others.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Here's the line that I draw; I am certain God can save me. While I believe I am saved, humility prevents me from claiming I am certain of my individual fate.

Not sure how me being confident (faith) in the promises of God is a lack of humility.

Robert Rogers was on his death bed and asked his wife if he was a sheep or a goat. Mrs. Rogers said you are a sheep if there has ever been a sheep. If Mr. Rogers questioned his fate, had the humility to question his fate, there is no way I am going to claim I have been as much of a sheep as he.

If he questioned his fate. I would question his faith. what was his faith in?

Is our faith in God

or in ourselves.

If My faith is in self. Your right, I could never be certain of my eternity. because I am a sinner.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

and if you don't abide in Him?

thks

I will not produce fruit. I will not reap the reward of those who produce fruit. and I will be chastened by God. Who is my father and will discipline me in love

 

[marks]

why do legalistic believers always act like pharisees and try to point the finger at certain sins?

Do you still sin? That what makes you any different than any of those people?

A child of God can not live in sin.

But they can still sin.

worry about your own sin, and not the sin of others.

To anyone who poses such a question, I ask them, are these things you want to do?? If you don't want to do them, what is your point?

They hypothesize some person who being regenerate isn't changed, a straw man at best, a contradiction at it's heart. A manipulative ploy to sidetrack a discussion, is how I see it.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Not sure how me being confident (faith) in the promises of God is a lack of humility.

And just how does humility equate to not trusting God? To me it seems artificial at best.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

Oh I am sure. We can doubt God in areas of our life

But do we doubt God about our eternity?

Here's the line that I draw; I am certain God can save me. While I believe I am saved, humility prevents me from claiming I am certain of my individual fate.

Robert Rogers was on his death bed and asked his wife if he was a sheep or a goat. Mrs. Rogers said you are a sheep if there has ever been a sheep. If Mr. Rogers questioned his fate, had the humility to question his fate, there is no way I am going to claim I have been as much of a sheep as he.

 

[Wrangler]

To anyone who poses such a question, I ask them, are these things you want to do??

Avoiding answering questions shows the sincerity of your search for truth.

 

[marks]

Avoiding answering questions shows the sincerity of your search for truth.

Seems so pat, doesn't it?

Hypotheticals never really do work, though, because you can make up anything you want, and change it any way you want.

Disparaging my sincerity shows what's in your heart. Your words reveal you.

BTW . . . I've noticed several questions you've avoided answering. According to your assessment, what should we conclude concerning yourself?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Avoiding answering questions shows the sincerity of your search for truth.

Encouraging someone to shift their thinking from fictitious hypotheticals to real-life seems to me to be well suited towards pursuing truth.

Many people I've come across seem to prefer to argue concerning the fictitious rather than the real, preferring to not be bound by facts. I think discussions of God's Word should be based in fact and truth, not hypotheticals designed for an end.

Much love!

 

[faithhopecharity]

What do you mean by "this"? A Christian confidently knowing that they are saved because of the completed work of Christ? If that is what you meant, I would say now, not after death and judgment. John wrote to his Christian readers:

(1Jn 5:13 NKJV) These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

A sinner cannot have eternal life if they are not saved.

what is eternal life and how is it different than eternal salvation?

thks

 

[Wrangler]

God makes His intent clear, that we can KNOW we have eternal life.

There’s the milk and then when you mature, the meat. You also preach a false, half gospel, willfully ignorant of verses that clearly make the divine promise conditional on our doing are part.

As @faithhopecharity put it, and when we don’t abide in Christ?

 

[Wrangler]

Not sure how me being confident (faith) in the promises of God is a lack of humility.

I’ve already explained this very, very clearly with many Scripture verses. You’re willfully ignorant of verses that make the promise conditional on you individually doing your part: season (or be trampled), produce fruit (or be thrown in the fire), do God’s will (so that you may receive God’s promise. No response Hebrews 10:36.

 

[bdavidc]

sorry for the confusion
justification is a gratuitous gift of God, no works of ours

this is the initial or first grace we receive

receiving the grace of justification we have union with God & His saints in the communion of saints thru Christ, by grace, with the power of His life, grace, merits & the Holy Spirit.

Our good works after we receive the grace of justification are transformed by grace and performed in grace united with Christ and given life of the spirit because of God's grace operating in us!

You have not corrected the contradiction. You have only hidden works behind the word “grace.” You say justification is free, but only “initial,” then claim it must be preserved through obedience and can be lost through sin. Scripture never teaches temporary justification or justification maintained by good works.

Paul says, “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God” ~Romans 5:1. He also says, “Being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him” ~Romans 5:9. The believer’s standing rests upon Christ’s blood, not upon whether he performs enough grace-enabled works afterward.

Galatians 5:4 does not teach that believers lose grace by committing a so-called “deadly sin.” Paul identifies those who have fallen from grace: “Whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.” The warning is against seeking justification through works, which is exactly where your argument leads.

Romans 2:7 does not prove that eternal life is earned by patient continuance in good works. Paul’s conclusion is that no one meets God’s righteous standard: “By the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight” ~Romans 3:20. That is why sinners must be “justified freely by his grace” ~Romans 3:24.

You say believers do not have eternal salvation, but Jesus says, “He that believeth on me hath everlasting life” ~John 6:47. He also says the believer “hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation” ~John 5:24, and, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” ~John 10:28.

Good works are the evidence of salvation, not the means of preserving justification. Calling works “grace-enabled” does not make them part of the gospel, because Paul says, “If by grace, then is it no more of works” ~Romans 11:6. Christ does not begin salvation and wait for man to finish it. “He is able also to save them to the uttermost” ~Hebrews 7:25.

 

[Wrangler]

BTW . . . I've noticed several questions you've avoided answering. According to your assessment, what should we conclude concerning yourself?

So many of your posts reveal an immaturity, a snarky gotcha that is not worth dignifying with a response. Rather than simply answer a question, you deflect with one of your own intertwined with a personal jab.

 

[Wrangler]

Encouraging someone to shift their thinking from fictitious hypotheticals to real-life seems to me to be well suited towards pursuing truth.

Many people I've come across seem to prefer to argue concerning the fictitious rather than the real, preferring to not be bound by facts. I think discussions of God's Word should be based in fact and truth, not hypotheticals designed for an end.

Much love!

No love at all, really. Pretending to speak for the masses is just a deflection of what is really a confession of the confinement you put yourself in the expanse of consideration.

In talking with you, you reveal the only intellectual tool you have is a hammer, forcing every problem to be a nail. Hypotheticals are beyond your intellectual acumen. Gotcha!

 

[bdavidc]

Not answering my question does not answer it; Is Paul your Lord and Savior? The Messiah said IF we remain in him, he'll remain in us. This destroys your theology of OSAS and false justification no matter what we do.

Although there should be no doubt, Hebrews 10:26 makes explicit the folly of your position - IF we deliberately continue to sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins. Do you see that "IF" word again? It doesn't mean unconditional.

That question is a dishonest diversion. No, Paul is not my Lord and Savior. Jesus Christ is. But the words of Paul are inspired Scripture, and you do not honor Christ by pitting His words against the apostle He appointed. Peter called Paul’s writings “scriptures” and warned that the unstable twist them “unto their own destruction” ~2 Peter 3:15-16.

You still have not answered Romans 4:5: “To him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” Mocking Paul, changing the subject, and shouting “IF” do not erase what God plainly said.

You also misrepresented my position. I never said believers are justified “no matter what we do.” Scripture teaches that those truly born of God follow Christ and bear fruit. The issue is whether obedience is the evidence of salvation or the price paid to keep it. Jesus said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” ~John 10:28. He did not say His sheep repeatedly save themselves by remaining worthy.

John 15 does not teach that works preserve justification. Branches bear fruit because they abide in the vine. Fruit proves life; it does not create or purchase life. Apart from Christ we can do nothing, but that does not mean Christ does half the saving while man completes the rest.

Hebrews 10:26 is not teaching that every deliberate sin cancels Christ’s justification. The context concerns those who reject Christ’s one sacrifice and turn away from the truth. There remains no other sacrifice because Christ is the only sacrifice. The same chapter says, “By one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified” ~Hebrews 10:14.

You are not refuting eternal security. You are attacking a straw man while refusing to face the verses that say believers have eternal life, shall not come into condemnation, and shall never perish ~John 5:24; 10:28. Stop twisting warning passages into a gospel of temporary justification. “If by grace, then is it no more of works” ~Romans 11:6.

 

[Wrangler]

But the words of Paul are inspired Scripture, and you do not honor Christ by pitting His words against the apostle He appointed.

Compared to you, ignoring Christ’s words on the point.