How do you do bible study?

[Jim B]

Have you not every heard the Christian song that goes "I walk with Him and I talk with Him, and He tells me I am His own"??

Amazingly you missed it because with all my telling you to listen to Him you thought it was about sitting!!

It is about listening!!

Do you not even know what the foremost commandment is??

It is not found in the Law, it is found in the relationship, but Moses spoke it clearly!

The greatest commandment is the one commandment that is truly necessary!!
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It is "Hear, O Israel"

You do not understand what I am saying, because you do not understand that I am saying the same thing as those like Moses!

Deaut 6:4 “Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!

Mark 12: 28,29 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;

Is 1:2 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; For the LORD speaks,
“Sons I have reared and brought up, But they have revolted against Me.

Is 30: 9 For this is a rebellious people, false sons, Sons who refuse to listen To the instruction of the LORD;

If you in deed, would have read the Bible and done what it told you, then you would have sought the Lord and fulfilled the foremost commandment, which has always been about hearing Him, and by that command you fulfill all the commandments in the Law!

If you in deed love the Lord your God with all your heart... , then you would be listening to Him because He is always with you! Therefore your not listening to Him and thus being upset with someone saying we all need to listen to Him, shows you are not fulfilling the Law handed down by Him through Moses, nor the foremost commandment Moses and others including Jesus Christ also explained.

It if for that reason that He went to the cross, because you kill the Word of God by not listening to Him!! Yet even then He forgives you and is standing there knocking with His voice, so that if anyone - including you - were to open up to Him and hear what He has to say to you personally, then He will come into you and eat with you and you with Him. If you want to eat standing up, that is ok. If you want to eat while walking with Him, that is ok. But perhaps it might be easier if you simply start by sitting down in a nice quiet place with Him?

So in deed - do stop writing me until you start talking to Him! Please - I have only ever been advising you to listen to Him - so do it!

So all anyone has to do in your opinion is sit around and claim that they are listening to God? There is no need to actively live out one's Christian faith?

Try reading the parable of the good Samaritan!!! The pious Jews, coming down the hill from Jerusalem -- the location of God's temple -- passed by the injured man. They were probably wholly absorbed in listening to God. And in the process, cut Matthew 7:12 out of your Bible: “In everything do to others as you would have them do to you, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

And don't tell me I'm not listening to God!!! How arrogant can you be???

 

[Triumph1300]

In response to the first post on this thread:

I am doing my daily devotions reading Charles Spurgeon's "Morning and Evening". (By dates)
Plus reading the quoted scriptures. I also read from a Bible App on my laptop.

 

[Truther]

"Arrogant" is a judgement and your judgment. It is not His judgement, because trying to get people to talk to Him is not arrogant - trying to get people to turn people to us would be, but trying to get people to turn to Him and listen to Him is humility!!! - It is the idea that is it not us but Him (God) who we all need to listen to. So you do indeed need to listen to Him!!

And it is like Jesus told Martha = only one thing is necessary - which is listening to Him!!

But that is not your message, is it? It should be.

If a person listens to Jesus Christ our Lord and God, and believe that He is God, then they will do things based upon what He tells them. Not all the time of course, because we get busy, we become forgetful, we even get rebellious - still He is forgiving and patent, and you will start doing some of the things He tells you. You might even want to do other things for Him, like getting baptized in water as a sign that you do listen to Him.

A believer might not always seek the Lord for how to study their Bible, but a real believer in Him will certainly seek Him and listen to what He says concerning the Bible and how to study it. But that Pharisees did not listen to Him but only pretended obedience to Him. So they made it about religious acts (acts based upon their understanding of God instead of listen to God for His understanding). So why again are you so concerned about "baptism", as opposed to actually seeking His voice? Why do you not understand that turning people to Him is not the same thing as turning people to water baptism? Why do you not understand why only one thing is truely needed, just like Jesus said and is recorded in the Bible??? Why do you not understand what He said in the Bible, about only one thing being necessary, which was listening to Him like Mary was doing?

Jesus explained to those religious people back then, and there is nothing new under the sun.

Jn 8: 43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.

If indeed a person does hear from Him know that happens only when they figure out that they need to repent of their ways, because their religion (their understanding of God) does not get it done. They have to figure out that only His ways are good, and to figure out His ways they have to listen to Him!!

Being a man like any other man, I too often don't seek Him and made decisions based on my understanding. However, being a believer In the Great I Am who is also the Word of God, who is also Jesus Christ, who is also The Wonderful Counselor, who is also The Teacher; I do remember to turn back to Him everyday, and usually about a dozen times a day. That is not from pride and arrogance that I turn back to Him, it is from the fact that I realize (at least at times) that I need Him in my life. That is humility, and the more humble a man is the more often they do indeed, and I do mean in deed, turn back to Him and listen to Him.


It is written as you judge, so shall you be judged, and also that the word of God can be found in our mouth. So have you not put it together; that by calling me "arrogant" because I am telling you that listening to Him is the only thing really needed just like He said also, means that you are judged as being arrogant and that you are not seeking Him because you do repent. The water baptism that John did was design to address that very issue in people, that they are arrogant and lean on their own understanding instead of seeking Jesus Christ. But if after being dunked in water as a sign that you are planning to repent and thus seek Jesus Christ, you did not do that, then the water baptism did no good for you!!!

Now I would recommend that you go back, remembering that the water baptism is supposed to get you to repent and turn to Jesus Christ for instructions, and get baptized in water again. Still, you don't need to listen to Me. Just start talking to Him and listening to Him, but that is going to mean repenting of your ways else you won't turn to Him for His instructions. Thus if you do start seeking Him and listening to Him, then you would have already accomplished the purpose of water baptism! Thus your getting baptized again would just be a sign that you did repent and are not turning to Him - which is what water baptism was always meant to be!!

Did Jesus say "he that hears my voice shall be saved" or "he that believes and is baptized shall be saved"?

 

[Karl Peters]

So all anyone has to do in your opinion is sit around and claim that they are listening to God? There is no need to actively live out one's Christian faith?

Try reading the parable of the good Samaritan!!! The pious Jews, coming down the hill from Jerusalem -- the location of God's temple -- passed by the injured man. They were probably wholly absorbed in listening to God. And in the process, cut Matthew 7:12 out of your Bible: “In everything do to others as you would have them do to you, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

And don't tell me I'm not listening to God!!! How arrogant can you be???

In Jesus's opinion There is only one thing that is truly necessary!!!!!!!!!!


Or you not believe Him???

What I find sad is that so many don't know Him, and it shows by what they write. They write they believe the Bible, but then they attribute a verse as to being a person other than the person of Jesus Christ who is The Word of God!

It shows they don't hear His voice, because He does indeed line up with what He spoke.

He spoke, and it is recorded in your Bible:

Luke 10: 41,42 But the Lord answered and said to her, “Martha, Martha, you are worried and bothered about so many things; but only one thing is necessary, for Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her.”

That is not my opinion, but I understand it. That is what Jesus said as recorded in the Bible, but you don't understand it!!!

Why did you not understand that when Jesus speaks He always speaks the truth?? Why did you not understand that the Bible is actually correct?

Could it be that you did not understand because you are more like Martha than Mary?? Could it be that you run around trying to do things for Jesus Christ but never sit down to listen to Him??? It that is the case it would explain your confusion.

Prov 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.

If a person does not sit down and listen to the words of God that come from His mouth, then they are not going to find the wisdom which the LORD gives, and thus are not going to have knowledge and understanding.

Which is why when we study the Bible we must sit down and listen to the Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is why this topic on this thread is soo important! Look at what people are writing on this thread --- not many write anything about actually hearing the Lord, sitting down with Him, studying the Bible in a way the our Lord Jesus Christ told them to, but most seem to just be doing whatever they think might be best, and almost none attribute their actions to instructions gotten from the Lord.

So instead of advising other to seek the Lord and listen to Him, they make it about good works, as we can read in Jim B post!! He thinks the good Samaritan was not listening to the Lord, instead of that possibility that the good Samaritan might actually have been the good Samaritan because He was getting His instructions from the Lord?

And Jim B misses that possibility in all he write as can be seen in how he also misinterpreted Matthew 7:12

“In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

Jim B thinks he is capable, by his own understanding, to be able to know how to treat others as he himself wants to be treated, so he believes in himself and his thinking and has not repented of his ways.

Jesus, our example, on the other hand explained that He does and says only what the Father tells Him - So Jesus is a "Good Samaritan" because God is love and only God is good, so Jesus is One with God and is God. However, of people Jesus said, "if you being evil.."

So if indeed the "Good" Samatitan was indeed "Good" he was "Good" because He was listening to God and doing what He was told!!!

And if Jim B had been spending time sitting and listening to the Lord He would have gotten the wisdom to understand that the only way to fulfill the Law is by listening to the Lord our God Jesus Christ, because only God is good!!

Jim B - failed to understand that only God is good, and that it is God who is love - so he didn't understand that the "Good" Samaritan was listening to God - specifically to Jesus Christ whose name is called "The Word of God"

There for, unlike the prophets, Jim B is under the impression that he can fulfill the Law by leaning on His own understanding instead of taking the time to actually seek the Lord!

That is exactly what Martha was doing!! She was doing "good works" as she saw it, based upon her understanding, instead of sitting down and listening to the Lord!! So how does Jim B study his bible? Is it not also done by leaning on His own understanding instead of sitting down with Jesus Christ, who again is the Word of God, and actually listening to the Lord for understanding??

Yet Jim B is not alone. Sadly many are trying to go throw the big gate called "Religion", instead of the narrow gate with is Jesus Christ!

Indeed, when we read the verse that Jim B referred to in context, what do we find?

Mat 7:12 -18 “In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets. “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. “You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? “So, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. “A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.

So if a person is doing something wrong, like not seeking the Lord our God for instructions as to what is good and loving - what do we want for them???

Do we not want them saved? Don't we want them to find the narrow gate which is Jesus Christ, The Word of God??

Therefore, the very best thing I can do for someone who is into religion (religion is man's understanding of God) is to turn them to Jesus Christ and get them listening to Him, (who is God's salvation)

I want salvation, and the Christ is called Jesus because that means "God's Salvation". So I want them to know that the ONE THING NEEDED is indeed listening to Jesus Christ (The Word of God) for instruction as to what to do, what to know, for your understanding...

That is what Jesus explained in the Bible!!! That is not my opinion!!! "ONLY ONE THING IS NECESSARY" !!! THAT IS WHAT JESUS SAID AND HE DID NOT LIE!!

Is 30:1 “Woe to the rebellious children,” declares the LORD, “Who execute a plan, but not Mine,
And make an alliance, but not of My Spirit, In order to add sin to sin;

If you are going to execute His "good: plan - you have to take the time to sit with Jesus Christ and hear what that plan is!!! So do you still not understand why the "Good" Samaritan was indeed "Good" when only God is good? Even that "Samaritan" had been listening to the Word of God (Jesus Christ) in his quite time, where as the Jews who were given the Law and the testimony of the prophets did not listen to God! They put the Word of God do death on the cross outside that city on the hill.

Is 30:9 For this is a rebellious people, false sons, Sons who refuse to listen To the instruction of the LORD;

That is what the prophets of Old told them - They refuse to listen to the instruction of the Lord!!

They didn't do the ONE THING THAT IS NECESSARY!!

IF THEY HAD THEY WOULD HAVE UNDERSTOOD THAT ISAIAH AND THE OTHER PROPHETS WERE NOT JUST GIVING THEM THEIR OPINION!! THEY WERE HEARING AND DOING WHAT THE LORD ASKED OF THEM!!

 

[Karl Peters]

Did Jesus say "he that hears my voice shall be saved" or "he that believes and is baptized shall be saved"?

The correct answer to the above questions are yes!!!!

However, it seems that Truther does not understand that both deserve to be answered "Yes" - because he wrote "or" in the middle of the two questions

I believe there is a reason Truther does not understand that both deserve to be answered "Yes", and that reason is most likely because he does not hear His voice. That would explain the confusion.

Now he could have come to the correct conclusion just by reading the Bible, but the Bible was written in ways (like parables and saying) that are supposed to lead us back to the Lord and hearing from Him. The true believer will believe in Jesus Christ and turn to Him for His understanding, but the pretender will not.

So first I will advise Truther, to actually seek Jesus Christ for the Truth. Jesus is the way and the truth!

Next I will use the Bible to point out a few Scriptures, to help Him turn to the Lord.

Jn 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

In the above verse we find that only belief in Jesus give us eternal life. In a logical formula it might be written J = E where J is believing in Jesus and E is eternal life. So below we can show that baptism is of NO or zero importance by simply adding B for baptism to the equation of logic

Therefore in an logical equation if J = E and J + B = E, then B = 0 So B is of no importance for Eternal life.

Yet to get to Jesus which means salvation to us, something might be needed. That is to says we can not get to Jesus, (and Jesus means God's salvation) unless we first get something else, like say Baptism or possible 'Belief", because jn 3:16 doesn't just say Jesus but whoever believes in Him. And it turns out that in the Bible we find a few things that seem to be needed to believe in Jesus Christ.

For example, Rom 10: 15, 16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

From the above verses we find that faith (believing) requires hearing a word from the Christ, who is Jesus and whose name is called "The Word of God because His sheep do actually hear His voice. Indeed, we actually hear His words through the Holy Spirit and those are life to us. Thus Jesus also spoke the following words which were recorded in the Bible.

Jn 6:63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

So if we put the above together we find that to believe in Jesus Christ we must "hear His voice" and that means the answer to the first question: "Did Jesus say "he that hears my voice shall be saved" is Yes!!

Jesus explained that His sheep hear His voice and that His words are from the Holy Spirit and are life to us - so absolutely we need to hear from Him to have enteral life because comes from hearing His words!! And so while we put "J" for Jesus, it was actually for believing in Jesus and that comes from hearing Him!

So why the verse about baptism and belief:

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

For the Bible to be right, all verse must be right! So both Jn 3:16, Rom 10:15,16, and Mar 16:16 are all correct. If we don't understand, then it is our understanding that is wrong! Prov 2:6 tells us that understand comes from His mouth, not from our understanding. So those who believe hear His voice, and those who believe in Him are saved, so what about this "baptism" issue. We proved that if we believe we are saved, and that belief comes from hearing, so what is now the problem.?

Well, the answer is the Holy Spirit!! Remember we also showed that His words which are life to us come via the Holy Spirit!!

So we have to be in the Spirit!!! We do not hear from Him except through His Holy Spirit speaking His words to our spirit!! Therefore to hear Him by faith means we are immersed in the Holy Spirit!!

It is not John's Baptism, which was made in H2O water, but rather the Baptism in the Holy Spirit which makes is possible to hear His words which give us belief that Jesus Christ is there for us to hear from!! Therefore Mar 16:16 refers to the Baptism in the Holy Spirit!!! Not water baptism as some suggests, but only the baptism in the Holy Spirit!!

So why "water baptism"?

It is not actually the water baptism that was important, but what is represents! It is supposed to represent a desire to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. It kind of goes back to you have not because you have not asked! (James 4:2) It turns out that we don't ask for the Holy Spirit and the words of our Lord Jesus Christ that He brings to us, because we don't ask!!

James 4:2 You lust and do not have; so you commit murder. You are envious and cannot obtain; so you fight and quarrel. You do not have because you do not ask.

Our lusts tend to cause us to not seek the voice of the Lord, and thus the Holy Spirit!! This is important for us to understand about ourselves!!

So, John's baptism in water was a baptism of repentance; meaning we are recognizing that we need to turn to Jesus Christ for His understanding instead of leaning on our understanding!! We don't actually have to be dunked in water to make that request, but the dunking in water was a symbolic request we can and probably should do to make it clear we want the Holy Spirit and the words He brings to us from our Lord Jesus Christ. It is just a symbolic way to say we are turning form our ways are are going to start listening to His voice for understanding!! It is not needed, but the repentance is needed before we do seek Him and His words, and can be seen in the following verses:

Rev 3:19-22 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. ‘He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”

The above is the good news of eternal life!! But see how He reproves us to make us be zealous and repent, meaning turning from our ways to His! (John's water baptism, but the water is not needed, only the repentance). Then see how His sheep open the door to Him and let Him inside so that they take with Him and Him with them. His sheep hear His voice, but that only when we believe He is there for us! Still, we find that we have to overcome our own desire to not listen to Him! And many got dunked in water but didn't overcome their own desires not to listen to Him! AND PLEASE NOTICE ONE LAST PART IN THE ABOVE VERSES! NOTICE HOW HE INSTRUCTS THE CHURCHES NOT LET THOSE WHO DO HAVE AN EAR HEAR WHAT THE SPIRIT SAYS!!!

All seven churches written to in Revelation had to be told to let those who have an ear to hear, hear what the Spirit says to the churches!!

Religion, and specifically religious spirits, try to prevent others from hearing the Lord!! They don't tell you that, but they do that! So what about "Truther"? Why did he present the question like he did, as if baptism (apparently in water) gets you the Holy Spirit? What spirit is he listening to?

Well - that is not really the question I want to get at! The question I want everyone to consider is what spirit are they listening to!! So yeah, he needs to answer that question, just like we all do. If you have or can hear from the Lord Jesus Christ, you can find out the truth from Him! He will point out all the above I have explain, and better than I do. Where do you think I got the understanding? He asked me to post today, when I did not want to. But I take the time to do what He askes, because I know He does not want anyone to perish!! I know that because I listen to Him.

So again, concerning how we need to study the Bible: We need to study with Him, listen to Him, seek Him, know Him as the Truth and stop thinking we are the Truther!!!

Honest. all you really have to do is open the door to your heart for Him (Jesus Christ) to come in. That is what He wants too!! Do that and you will find that He immersed you in His Holy Spirit, because you will hear His words for you personally! It just takes a little faith that He is there for you!

 

[Truther]

The correct answer to the above questions are yes!!!!

However, it seems that Truther does not understand that both deserve to be answered "Yes" - because he wrote "or" in the middle of the two questions

I believe there is a reason Truther does not understand that both deserve to be answered "Yes", and that reason is most likely because he does not hear His voice. That would explain the confusion.

Now he could have come to the correct conclusion just by reading the Bible, but the Bible was written in ways (like parables and saying) that are supposed to lead us back to the Lord and hearing from Him. The true believer will believe in Jesus Christ and turn to Him for His understanding, but the pretender will not.

So first I will advise Truther, to actually seek Jesus Christ for the Truth. Jesus is the way and the truth!

Next I will use the Bible to point out a few Scriptures, to help Him turn to the Lord.

Jn 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

In the above verse we find that only belief in Jesus give us eternal life. In a logical formula it might be written J = E where J is believing in Jesus and E is eternal life. So below we can show that baptism is of NO or zero importance by simply adding B for baptism to the equation of logic

Therefore in an logical equation if J = E and J + B = E, then B = 0 So B is of no importance for Eternal life.

Yet to get to Jesus which means salvation to us, something might be needed. That is to says we can not get to Jesus, (and Jesus means God's salvation) unless we first get something else, like say Baptism or possible 'Belief", because jn 3:16 doesn't just say Jesus but whoever believes in Him. And it turns out that in the Bible we find a few things that seem to be needed to believe in Jesus Christ.

For example, Rom 10: 15, 16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

From the above verses we find that faith (believing) requires hearing a word from the Christ, who is Jesus and whose name is called "The Word of God because His sheep do actually hear His voice. Indeed, we actually hear His words through the Holy Spirit and those are life to us. Thus Jesus also spoke the following words which were recorded in the Bible.

Jn 6:63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

So if we put the above together we find that to believe in Jesus Christ we must "hear His voice" and that means the answer to the first question: "Did Jesus say "he that hears my voice shall be saved" is Yes!!

Jesus explained that His sheep hear His voice and that His words are from the Holy Spirit and are life to us - so absolutely we need to hear from Him to have enteral life because comes from hearing His words!! And so while we put "J" for Jesus, it was actually for believing in Jesus and that comes from hearing Him!

So why the verse about baptism and belief:

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

For the Bible to be right, all verse must be right! So both Jn 3:16, Rom 10:15,16, and Mar 16:16 are all correct. If we don't understand, then it is our understanding that is wrong! Prov 2:6 tells us that understand comes from His mouth, not from our understanding. So those who believe hear His voice, and those who believe in Him are saved, so what about this "baptism" issue. We proved that if we believe we are saved, and that belief comes from hearing, so what is now the problem.?

Well, the answer is the Holy Spirit!! Remember we also showed that His words which are life to us come via the Holy Spirit!!

So we have to be in the Spirit!!! We do not hear from Him except through His Holy Spirit speaking His words to our spirit!! Therefore to hear Him by faith means we are immersed in the Holy Spirit!!

It is not John's Baptism, which was made in H2O water, but rather the Baptism in the Holy Spirit which makes is possible to hear His words which give us belief that Jesus Christ is there for us to hear from!! Therefore Mar 16:16 refers to the Baptism in the Holy Spirit!!! Not water baptism as some suggests, but only the baptism in the Holy Spirit!!

So why "water baptism"?

It is not actually the water baptism that was important, but what is represents! It is supposed to represent a desire to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. It kind of goes back to you have not because you have not asked! (James 4:2) It turns out that we don't ask for the Holy Spirit and the words of our Lord Jesus Christ that He brings to us, because we don't ask!!

James 4:2 You lust and do not have; so you commit murder. You are envious and cannot obtain; so you fight and quarrel. You do not have because you do not ask.

Our lusts tend to cause us to not seek the voice of the Lord, and thus the Holy Spirit!! This is important for us to understand about ourselves!!

So, John's baptism in water was a baptism of repentance; meaning we are recognizing that we need to turn to Jesus Christ for His understanding instead of leaning on our understanding!! We don't actually have to be dunked in water to make that request, but the dunking in water was a symbolic request we can and probably should do to make it clear we want the Holy Spirit and the words He brings to us from our Lord Jesus Christ. It is just a symbolic way to say we are turning form our ways are are going to start listening to His voice for understanding!! It is not needed, but the repentance is needed before we do seek Him and His words, and can be seen in the following verses:

Rev 3:19-22 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. ‘He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”

The above is the good news of eternal life!! But see how He reproves us to make us be zealous and repent, meaning turning from our ways to His! (John's water baptism, but the water is not needed, only the repentance). Then see how His sheep open the door to Him and let Him inside so that they take with Him and Him with them. His sheep hear His voice, but that only when we believe He is there for us! Still, we find that we have to overcome our own desire to not listen to Him! And many got dunked in water but didn't overcome their own desires not to listen to Him! AND PLEASE NOTICE ONE LAST PART IN THE ABOVE VERSES! NOTICE HOW HE INSTRUCTS THE CHURCHES NOT LET THOSE WHO DO HAVE AN EAR HEAR WHAT THE SPIRIT SAYS!!!

All seven churches written to in Revelation had to be told to let those who have an ear to hear, hear what the Spirit says to the churches!!

Religion, and specifically religious spirits, try to prevent others from hearing the Lord!! They don't tell you that, but they do that! So what about "Truther"? Why did he present the question like he did, as if baptism (apparently in water) gets you the Holy Spirit? What spirit is he listening to?

Well - that is not really the question I want to get at! The question I want everyone to consider is what spirit are they listening to!! So yeah, he needs to answer that question, just like we all do. If you have or can hear from the Lord Jesus Christ, you can find out the truth from Him! He will point out all the above I have explain, and better than I do. Where do you think I got the understanding? He asked me to post today, when I did not want to. But I take the time to do what He askes, because I know He does not want anyone to perish!! I know that because I listen to Him.

So again, concerning how we need to study the Bible: We need to study with Him, listen to Him, seek Him, know Him as the Truth and stop thinking we are the Truther!!!

Honest. all you really have to do is open the door to your heart for Him (Jesus Christ) to come in. That is what He wants too!! Do that and you will find that He immersed you in His Holy Spirit, because you will hear His words for you personally! It just takes a little faith that He is there for you!

Did you hear Jesus' voice telling you to ignore baptism in the name of Jesus for the remission of your sins per Acts 2:38? Or, was it the voice of presuppositionists?

 

[Karl Peters]

Did you hear Jesus' voice telling you to ignore baptism in the name of Jesus for the remission of your sins per Acts 2:38? Or, was it the voice of presuppositionists?

Who the heck are presuppositionist?

I don't concern myself much with what men think - and neither would you if you knew the Lord.

And who told you I ignored baptism - that would have been a lying spirit.

I have been baptized in water twice - once when I was 10 when I felt the touch of the Holy Spirit in church exactly when a altar call was made, and again when I was 40 when the Lord came back into my life and I started hearing Him. But it doesn't sound like you hear Him at all??

I have never heard Him use the word "presuppositionist"! In face - while He tend to show how smart he is by not using big words but small words in extremely cleaver saying. He is just like we read about in the Bible. And where in the Bible do we find Him using anything like "presuppositionist".

So it is not me who is 'presupposing' a conclusion before an argument - but that would be you!

And you would understand that if knew Him. His thoughts are not our thoughts, and that is one of the first things you would learn if you actually did listen to Him. He says things like:

YOU DIDN’T MAKE ME AN AWESOME GOD, BUT YOU CAN MAKE ME AN AWESOME GOD.

Small non-pretentious words, which impress you by that way He puts them together and not by Him trying to sound smart. And incase you don't know, and it seems you don't, we make Him out to be an awesome God by our testimonies, and then asking people to seek Him!

 

[Jim B]

In Jesus's opinion There is only one thing that is truly necessary!!!!!!!!!!


Or you not believe Him???

What I find sad is that so many don't know Him, and it shows by what they write. They write they believe the Bible, but then they attribute a verse as to being a person other than the person of Jesus Christ who is The Word of God!

It shows they don't hear His voice, because He does indeed line up with what He spoke.

He spoke, and it is recorded in your Bible:

Luke 10: 41,42 But the Lord answered and said to her, “Martha, Martha, you are worried and bothered about so many things; but only one thing is necessary, for Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her.”

That is not my opinion, but I understand it. That is what Jesus said as recorded in the Bible, but you don't understand it!!!

Why did you not understand that when Jesus speaks He always speaks the truth?? Why did you not understand that the Bible is actually correct?

Could it be that you did not understand because you are more like Martha than Mary?? Could it be that you run around trying to do things for Jesus Christ but never sit down to listen to Him??? It that is the case it would explain your confusion.

Prov 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.

If a person does not sit down and listen to the words of God that come from His mouth, then they are not going to find the wisdom which the LORD gives, and thus are not going to have knowledge and understanding.

Which is why when we study the Bible we must sit down and listen to the Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is why this topic on this thread is soo important! Look at what people are writing on this thread --- not many write anything about actually hearing the Lord, sitting down with Him, studying the Bible in a way the our Lord Jesus Christ told them to, but most seem to just be doing whatever they think might be best, and almost none attribute their actions to instructions gotten from the Lord.

So instead of advising other to seek the Lord and listen to Him, they make it about good works, as we can read in Jim B post!! He thinks the good Samaritan was not listening to the Lord, instead of that possibility that the good Samaritan might actually have been the good Samaritan because He was getting His instructions from the Lord?

And Jim B misses that possibility in all he write as can be seen in how he also misinterpreted Matthew 7:12

“In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

Jim B thinks he is capable, by his own understanding, to be able to know how to treat others as he himself wants to be treated, so he believes in himself and his thinking and has not repented of his ways.

Jesus, our example, on the other hand explained that He does and says only what the Father tells Him - So Jesus is a "Good Samaritan" because God is love and only God is good, so Jesus is One with God and is God. However, of people Jesus said, "if you being evil.."

So if indeed the "Good" Samatitan was indeed "Good" he was "Good" because He was listening to God and doing what He was told!!!

And if Jim B had been spending time sitting and listening to the Lord He would have gotten the wisdom to understand that the only way to fulfill the Law is by listening to the Lord our God Jesus Christ, because only God is good!!

Jim B - failed to understand that only God is good, and that it is God who is love - so he didn't understand that the "Good" Samaritan was listening to God - specifically to Jesus Christ whose name is called "The Word of God"

There for, unlike the prophets, Jim B is under the impression that he can fulfill the Law by leaning on His own understanding instead of taking the time to actually seek the Lord!

That is exactly what Martha was doing!! She was doing "good works" as she saw it, based upon her understanding, instead of sitting down and listening to the Lord!! So how does Jim B study his bible? Is it not also done by leaning on His own understanding instead of sitting down with Jesus Christ, who again is the Word of God, and actually listening to the Lord for understanding??

Yet Jim B is not alone. Sadly many are trying to go throw the big gate called "Religion", instead of the narrow gate with is Jesus Christ!

Indeed, when we read the verse that Jim B referred to in context, what do we find?

Mat 7:12 -18 “In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets. “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. “You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? “So, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. “A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.

So if a person is doing something wrong, like not seeking the Lord our God for instructions as to what is good and loving - what do we want for them???

Do we not want them saved? Don't we want them to find the narrow gate which is Jesus Christ, The Word of God??

Therefore, the very best thing I can do for someone who is into religion (religion is man's understanding of God) is to turn them to Jesus Christ and get them listening to Him, (who is God's salvation)

I want salvation, and the Christ is called Jesus because that means "God's Salvation". So I want them to know that the ONE THING NEEDED is indeed listening to Jesus Christ (The Word of God) for instruction as to what to do, what to know, for your understanding...

That is what Jesus explained in the Bible!!! That is not my opinion!!! "ONLY ONE THING IS NECESSARY" !!! THAT IS WHAT JESUS SAID AND HE DID NOT LIE!!

Is 30:1 “Woe to the rebellious children,” declares the LORD, “Who execute a plan, but not Mine,
And make an alliance, but not of My Spirit, In order to add sin to sin;

If you are going to execute His "good: plan - you have to take the time to sit with Jesus Christ and hear what that plan is!!! So do you still not understand why the "Good" Samaritan was indeed "Good" when only God is good? Even that "Samaritan" had been listening to the Word of God (Jesus Christ) in his quite time, where as the Jews who were given the Law and the testimony of the prophets did not listen to God! They put the Word of God do death on the cross outside that city on the hill.

Is 30:9 For this is a rebellious people, false sons, Sons who refuse to listen To the instruction of the LORD;

That is what the prophets of Old told them - They refuse to listen to the instruction of the Lord!!

They didn't do the ONE THING THAT IS NECESSARY!!

IF THEY HAD THEY WOULD HAVE UNDERSTOOD THAT ISAIAH AND THE OTHER PROPHETS WERE NOT JUST GIVING THEM THEIR OPINION!! THEY WERE HEARING AND DOING WHAT THE LORD ASKED OF THEM!!

No, I don't believe you, or more specifically, your interpretation of Scripture. Writing insulting stuff like "Could it be that you did not understand because you are more like Martha than Mary?? Could it be that you run around trying to do things for Jesus Christ but never sit down to listen to Him??? It that is the case it would explain your confusion" ends this discussion. Your self-righteousness, like every Pharisee, blinds you to the truth. You refuse to listen to the instruction of the Lord!!

 

[Johann]

Yup, a question, and so many different opinions.
J.

 

[Truther]

Who the heck are presuppositionist?

I don't concern myself much with what men think - and neither would you if you knew the Lord.

And who told you I ignored baptism - that would have been a lying spirit.

I have been baptized in water twice - once when I was 10 when I felt the touch of the Holy Spirit in church exactly when a altar call was made, and again when I was 40 when the Lord came back into my life and I started hearing Him. But it doesn't sound like you hear Him at all??

I have never heard Him use the word "presuppositionist"! In face - while He tend to show how smart he is by not using big words but small words in extremely cleaver saying. He is just like we read about in the Bible. And where in the Bible do we find Him using anything like "presuppositionist".

So it is not me who is 'presupposing' a conclusion before an argument - but that would be you!

And you would understand that if knew Him. His thoughts are not our thoughts, and that is one of the first things you would learn if you actually did listen to Him. He says things like:

YOU DIDN’T MAKE ME AN AWESOME GOD, BUT YOU CAN MAKE ME AN AWESOME GOD.

Small non-pretentious words, which impress you by that way He puts them together and not by Him trying to sound smart. And incase you don't know, and it seems you don't, we make Him out to be an awesome God by our testimonies, and then asking people to seek Him!

You can be baptized in water a hundred times but if the name of Jesus was not verbally spoken as you were baptized, you just got wet and no remission of sins.

Also, a presuppositionist is someone that has an unchangeable opinion of how he or she thinks something should be without obeying the actual directions that are written.

There is no difference between a person that puts a piece of furniture or a motor together wrong(not reading the instructions) as the man or woman who skips Acts 2:38, leaving that essential "piece" out.

 

[Karl Peters]

No, I don't believe you, or more specifically, your interpretation of Scripture. Writing insulting stuff like "Could it be that you did not understand because you are more like Martha than Mary?? Could it be that you run around trying to do things for Jesus Christ but never sit down to listen to Him??? It that is the case it would explain your confusion" ends this discussion. Your self-righteousness, like every Pharisee, blinds you to the truth. You refuse to listen to the instruction of the Lord!!

I am not asking you or anyone to believe me - I am asking you and them to actually believe in Him - and that means actually seeking Jesus Christ and hearing from Him via His Holy Spirit!!

Yet so you might know the Lord once asked me to open my Bible to Ezekiel 3

Now you don't have to believe me, but I am telling you that He spoke to me asking me to read that section and then He spoke to me via that small voice of His and He told me in somewhat similar but not the exact same words I read. He was telling me that He was sending me to a people who should listen to Him but would not listen to me because they would not listen to Him!!

So from those and other instructions from Him to me, I tell people "Christians" who should be listening to Him, but apparently are not, because they don't believe Me telling them that He is there to be heard from! That means they do not listen to Him.

Now concerning the possibility, which it is obvious that you want to believe, that I do not hear from Him. Well, I will be glade to give you testimonies as to what I hear, as I just did and have done many times! For example the first words I heard from Him were, "Read Your Bible" which I had never done before those words. My bible was something my mom gave me and should have been packed away in a box, but He gave me a vision of my bible behind my time clock. It should never have been there and was not there as far as I knew, but I looked and there is was.

Now, if that was not Jesus Christ, it was certainly not me and was not a physical person speaking to me, but a voice speaking to me and from a being able to move my Bible from whatever box it should have been in to behind my Bible.

And I have hundreds, and probably some thousands of incredible miraculous such testimonies, all of which do actually match up with the Bible, just like Him speaking to me about what He told Ezekiel.

You should actually start believing in the Great I Am whose name is called 'The Word of God' who we call Jesus the Christ because He is the Christ, and He is God's salvation.

But you don't want to believe in Him, nor that anyone might be hearing from Him today, so where is the problem? His sheep hear His voice and we are told to listen to Him on those days called "Today".

Now you have not actually confronted me with anything I said, but only with the fact that you don't believe I hear Him. Is that not specifically because you don't hear from Him? That would be the logical conclusion.

Also - self-righteousness would mean I would be pointing people to my thinking, but I point people to Him, unlike you!

Is this not why you are upset with me pointing people to Mary, and her sitting down listening to Jesus Christ?

Is this not why you did not want to believe what Jesus said, as recorded in the Bible, which was that only one thing was necessary and that was what Mary was doing, which was sitting and listening to Him?

It is not up to my "interpretation of Scripture", like you want to believe, but it is rather exactly what is written in the Scriptures which you don't want to except!! Do you need me to post that Scripture again?

Luke 10: 41,42 But the Lord answered and said to her, “Martha, Martha, you are worried and bothered about so many things; but only one thing is necessary, for Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her.”

Look at it again!! According to Jesus, as is written in the Bible, "only one thing is necessary" Mary had chosen that thing and she was sitting listening to Jesus Christ!!

I will tell you that many Christians understand this. His sheep do hear His voice! And that is what I have been telling you and that is what you don't want to believe!

So it is not a question of whether you believe me and my testimonies about hearing Him, but it is a question of why you don't believe enough in Jesus Christ that you don't sit at His feet and listen to Him!

That was the problem the Pharisees had. They did not hear His words!! They tended to search the Scriptures thinking that was going to give them eternal life, as opposed to listening to Him.

Still, He said that He stands at the door and knocks and if anyone hears His voice and opens the door, He will come into them and eat with them and them with Him. (Rev 3:20)

Note closely that it reads "ANYONE", which would even include the Pharisees! There are people still like that "Today", that day we are supposed to hear from Him. He wishes that none should perish, but faith comes from hearing and we hear Him by faith! So, a person has to believe to hear Him and hearing Him gives us the faith to believe He is there. Yet it only takes a small amount of faith to move that mountain of unbelief!!

I hear Him, and I believe it. It was not always that way for me. The first 40 years of my life I didn't hear a word from Him, and only once did I even feel His present. Yet for the last 20 plus years it has been that way, and I hear from Him about a dozen times a day!! And for the last 20 years since I started hearing from Him and can give you so many testimonies of miracles

 

[Karl Peters]

You can be baptized in water a hundred times but if the name of Jesus was not verbally spoken as you were baptized, you just got wet and no remission of sins.

Also, a presuppositionist is someone that has an unchangeable opinion of how he or she thinks something should be without obeying the actual directions that are written.

There is no difference between a person that puts a piece of furniture or a motor together wrong(not reading the instructions) as the man or woman who skips Acts 2:38, leaving that essential "piece" out.

So who is the "presuppositionist", the person who does not seek the Lord or the person who does actually seek the Lord?

What you still fail to understand is that Jesus Christ is indeed there to be heard from, and so call others "presuppositionist" because it is you who can not change your supposition!

I changed mind supposition, that Christ was not there to hear from, when He spoke to me the very first time! And I have to change my presuppositions almost every time I hear from Him - and don't think I didn't understand what was happening with your prior post.

When I asked:

Who the heck are presuppositionist?

It was to get you to think about what spirit you are hearing from!! I did not need the answer, but you need to realize what spirits are speaking to you!!

So I asked you a question you needed to answer for yourself.

And that should have been clear because I followed with:

And who told you I ignored baptism - that would have been a lying spirit.

I never said to ignore baptism, so someone told you a lie! In fact, I have made it clear on this thread that I personally got baptized twice - once when I was ten and again after I was 40 and the Lord had come back into my life so I heard from Him daily. I have been hearing from Jesus Christ every day for over 20 years not.

So your "presupposition" about me was wrong and is a lie! And you need to understand what spirit is lying to you!

You need to start getting the truth, and Jesus Christ is the way and the Truth! So you need to start seeking Him and what He has to say to you!!

I am for baptism and have been since I was baptized in water the first time. It turned out to not have helped me find Jesus Christ and His words to me personally at that time. Yet that had not actually changed my mind as to it having been a good thing. The reason was that I had felt the presence of the Holy Spirit at that time when I was 10, and so the Holy Spirit had gotten me to go and get baptized. I believed that all along, but as quick as it came it seem to go away, and that even before I was baptized in water. So, the water baptism didn't do me any good, but the presence of the Holy Spirit had impressed me. Never-the-less, I still would have advised someone to get baptized in water, because the Holy Spirit had advised to!

So your "presupposition" is way off!! And more so when I consider that the Holy Spirit came back into my life when I was just over 40 by hooking me up with my Lord Jesus Christ. Maybe He came back because I accepted His invitation to be baptized when I was 10, maybe not. He never told me that. Yet I started talking back and forth with Him daily, and I testify about that. So I decided to honor the Lord again by getting baptized again, as a sign, signal, or statement to Him (Jesus Christ) that I was intended to listen to Him and follow Him as opposed to leaning on my understanding. I was not going to 'presuppose' I knew what He wanted of me, but rather I was going to listen to Him!

And He asked me to ask others to do the same, which is what He calls preaching the Word of God, meaning He is The Word of God that we are preaching!

So it is not me who is "presupposing" but you who are "presupposing" - just like it is written that as you judge so shall you be judged!

I am telling people to listen to Him, and I will gladly testify that His thoughts are not our thoughts!! That is one of the very first things you learn with listening to Him!!!

Is 1: 18 “Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the LORD,
“Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool.

Just like Isaiah quoted and knew that His thoughts are not our thoughts, even in the first chapter we find that out, and so it is that listening to Him means you find out His reasons because you do reason with Him, and thus you figure out quickly not to "presuppose" anything. Yet after 20 years of reasoning with Him and getting corrected, you do figure out a few things. Like He is right; even when it comes to finding the word of God in our mouths, so that as we judge we are judged in that same way!

If someone calls me arrogant, it means they are arrogant and have been judge so by God, so that judgement about themselves comes out their own mouth! That is the word of God we are preaching. So if a person writes that I am presupposing, I know instantly that is the word of God to them, so that they might consider that they are ""presuppositionist".

So to help them understand I have learned that Jesus often asked "Who told you...", to get them to think about what was actually happening in the spirit realm around them. Around us are evil spirit and also the Spirit of God. So, there is a battle we are in, and our battle is not with flesh and blood, but against the dark spiritual forces of this world!

We each have our battles, so we need to pay attention, because the Lord is trying to help us understand. Still, we first need to understand that Jesus Christ is there with His Holy Spirit trying to help us personally!!! We find His words in our heart and mouth, but His spirit is not he only spirit around. The devil is a liar! If you were presupposing that I am not for water baptism you were lied to!! My point is that we are not saved by "water baptism" but by talking with The Word of God (Jesus Christ), via His Holy Spirit! So the water baptism is not the important baptism and it alone does you no good, but the baptism of the Holy Spirit (the Spirit that brings you the truthful words of Jesus Christ) is the important baptism!! And it is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, who sends and thus baptized us in His Holy Spirit. That happens when we seek Him and what He has to say to us!!

And the only reason for a person to not understand this is that they don't or have not been listening to the Lord Jesus Christ who teaches us, long enough, often enough, or just have not listened to Him, so that they have been taught that by Him who is the Truth!!

Still, He has patience. So much so that I have trouble not being upset that He would tell me sooooooooo often to explain what all Christians you already know - and that is that we must seek Him and His instruction to us personally!! We must hear from Him! We must believe that He is there to help us, instruct us, to give us the truth, and yes - to immerse us in His Holy Spirt who brings His words to us personally!!

Therefore I ask you again:

Who the heck are presuppositionist?

and

And who told you I ignored baptism - that would have been a lying spirit.

Do you still not understand? You need to seek our Lord Jesus Christ, because you need Him and His Holy Spirit to help you understand what the truth is!!!

 

[Karl Peters]

How do we study the Bible? That is a great question!

Do we study the Bible as He wants each of us to do???

He is the Great I AM - so He is always with us!
He is the Word of God - so He is always with us to talk to us!
He is the Teacher - so He is always with us to talk to us about what we need to know!
He is the Wonderful Counselor - so He is always with us to talk to what we need to know and advise us on how to use !
He is our Lord - so He is always with us to talk to us about what we need to know, and advise us on how to use it, and He gives us instructions that need to be followed concerning when and where to use what He has talked to us about!!
He is love - so He is always with us to talk to us about what we need to know, and advise us on how to use it, and He gives us instructions that need to be followed concerning when and where to use it because He loves people!!!

Therefore is anyone is not seeking Him they are seriously lacking understanding.

He once told me, "Karl - Understanding is understanding that I AM Understanding!"

Prov 7:4 Say to wisdom, “You are my sister,” And call understanding your intimate friend.

This morning in my bathroom He was talking to me. He was telling me that He intended to cause our friendship to be closer!

Would you not all want a closer relationship with God. You get it by listening to Him, talking with Him, and that includes all the above.

 

[Jim B]

Regarding the OP...

I "do Bible study" by reading the Bible daily. in several translations. I let the Holy Spirit guide me to want He wants me to read, and I read slowly and carefully. I resist trying to prove doctrine, but try to stay spiritually open and ware of what God wants me to understand.

I have been an avid reader for more than seventy years and I can state unequivocally that there is no "book" like the Bible (which is actually a collection of separate writings).

 

[Truther]

So who is the "presuppositionist", the person who does not seek the Lord or the person who does actually seek the Lord?

What you still fail to understand is that Jesus Christ is indeed there to be heard from, and so call others "presuppositionist" because it is you who can not change your supposition!

I changed mind supposition, that Christ was not there to hear from, when He spoke to me the very first time! And I have to change my presuppositions almost every time I hear from Him - and don't think I didn't understand what was happening with your prior post.

When I asked:



It was to get you to think about what spirit you are hearing from!! I did not need the answer, but you need to realize what spirits are speaking to you!!

So I asked you a question you needed to answer for yourself.

And that should have been clear because I followed with:



I never said to ignore baptism, so someone told you a lie! In fact, I have made it clear on this thread that I personally got baptized twice - once when I was ten and again after I was 40 and the Lord had come back into my life so I heard from Him daily. I have been hearing from Jesus Christ every day for over 20 years not.

So your "presupposition" about me was wrong and is a lie! And you need to understand what spirit is lying to you!

You need to start getting the truth, and Jesus Christ is the way and the Truth! So you need to start seeking Him and what He has to say to you!!

I am for baptism and have been since I was baptized in water the first time. It turned out to not have helped me find Jesus Christ and His words to me personally at that time. Yet that had not actually changed my mind as to it having been a good thing. The reason was that I had felt the presence of the Holy Spirit at that time when I was 10, and so the Holy Spirit had gotten me to go and get baptized. I believed that all along, but as quick as it came it seem to go away, and that even before I was baptized in water. So, the water baptism didn't do me any good, but the presence of the Holy Spirit had impressed me. Never-the-less, I still would have advised someone to get baptized in water, because the Holy Spirit had advised to!

So your "presupposition" is way off!! And more so when I consider that the Holy Spirit came back into my life when I was just over 40 by hooking me up with my Lord Jesus Christ. Maybe He came back because I accepted His invitation to be baptized when I was 10, maybe not. He never told me that. Yet I started talking back and forth with Him daily, and I testify about that. So I decided to honor the Lord again by getting baptized again, as a sign, signal, or statement to Him (Jesus Christ) that I was intended to listen to Him and follow Him as opposed to leaning on my understanding. I was not going to 'presuppose' I knew what He wanted of me, but rather I was going to listen to Him!

And He asked me to ask others to do the same, which is what He calls preaching the Word of God, meaning He is The Word of God that we are preaching!

So it is not me who is "presupposing" but you who are "presupposing" - just like it is written that as you judge so shall you be judged!

I am telling people to listen to Him, and I will gladly testify that His thoughts are not our thoughts!! That is one of the very first things you learn with listening to Him!!!

Is 1: 18 “Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the LORD,
“Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool.

Just like Isaiah quoted and knew that His thoughts are not our thoughts, even in the first chapter we find that out, and so it is that listening to Him means you find out His reasons because you do reason with Him, and thus you figure out quickly not to "presuppose" anything. Yet after 20 years of reasoning with Him and getting corrected, you do figure out a few things. Like He is right; even when it comes to finding the word of God in our mouths, so that as we judge we are judged in that same way!

If someone calls me arrogant, it means they are arrogant and have been judge so by God, so that judgement about themselves comes out their own mouth! That is the word of God we are preaching. So if a person writes that I am presupposing, I know instantly that is the word of God to them, so that they might consider that they are ""presuppositionist".

So to help them understand I have learned that Jesus often asked "Who told you...", to get them to think about what was actually happening in the spirit realm around them. Around us are evil spirit and also the Spirit of God. So, there is a battle we are in, and our battle is not with flesh and blood, but against the dark spiritual forces of this world!

We each have our battles, so we need to pay attention, because the Lord is trying to help us understand. Still, we first need to understand that Jesus Christ is there with His Holy Spirit trying to help us personally!!! We find His words in our heart and mouth, but His spirit is not he only spirit around. The devil is a liar! If you were presupposing that I am not for water baptism you were lied to!! My point is that we are not saved by "water baptism" but by talking with The Word of God (Jesus Christ), via His Holy Spirit! So the water baptism is not the important baptism and it alone does you no good, but the baptism of the Holy Spirit (the Spirit that brings you the truthful words of Jesus Christ) is the important baptism!! And it is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, who sends and thus baptized us in His Holy Spirit. That happens when we seek Him and what He has to say to us!!

And the only reason for a person to not understand this is that they don't or have not been listening to the Lord Jesus Christ who teaches us, long enough, often enough, or just have not listened to Him, so that they have been taught that by Him who is the Truth!!

Still, He has patience. So much so that I have trouble not being upset that He would tell me sooooooooo often to explain what all Christians you already know - and that is that we must seek Him and His instruction to us personally!! We must hear from Him! We must believe that He is there to help us, instruct us, to give us the truth, and yes - to immerse us in His Holy Spirt who brings His words to us personally!!

Therefore I ask you again:


and


Do you still not understand? You need to seek our Lord Jesus Christ, because you need Him and His Holy Spirit to help you understand what the truth is!!!

Admittedly, you did not have the name of Jesus invoked over you in baptism as per Acts 2:38 so you only bathed, and were not baptized.

The presuppose-er duped you, as he did it per RCC instructions...twice.

 

[Karl Peters]

Regarding the OP...

I "do Bible study" by reading the Bible daily. in several translations. I let the Holy Spirit guide me to want He wants me to read, and I read slowly and carefully. I resist trying to prove doctrine, but try to stay spiritually open and ware of what God wants me to understand.

I have been an avid reader for more than seventy years and I can state unequivocally that there is no "book" like the Bible (which is actually a collection of separate writings).

I like the above post. We need to read the Bible and there is, of course, no other book like it. Also, we do indeed need to let the Holy Spirit guide us when reading the Bible. And that means being open to what the Lord Jesus Christ wants to say to us via His Holy Spirit.

Yet what is the Holy Spirit guiding us supposed to be like, according to the Bible? Are we not supposed to be picking up instructions and teachings from the Holy Spirit in "Words"? That is not exactly what the above post seems to say. Perhaps it is, but "guide me" does not exactly say we are hearing the Lord in words. Nor does "and are of". It could be, but honestly it seems to be someone who is dull of hearing, and that we also read about in the Bible.

I mean - did not those who wrote the Bible hear the Lord, via His Holy spirit, in words which they wrote down? So, are we really being guided by every word that comes out of the mouth of God?

Or could it be that we are just not hearing with our spiritual ears like we should? And might that be improved if we practiced using our spiritual senses more?

Paul explained in the Bible that he took all thoughts captive to Jesus Christ, not just his thoughts on the Scriptures, but obviously those would also have been included. And what was with Jesus talking about his disciples having 'little faith'. We read about that too in the Bible when we studied it, right?

Now as for me, I will pick up the Holy Spirit communicating with me in words, from my Lord Jesus Christ. Not just that way, because He is not limited to just communicating in words. For example, I was talking to my Lord right before going to bed last night. He told me that He was going to give me a dream. That is not of a great surprise, because we also read about the Lord giving people dreams. Still, most nights I don't remember getting a dream, though I admit to getting them more now that I know Him. And so it was that I woke up this morning with a strange dream. The dream was not about the Bible, it was about life - both my life and life in general.

I used to surf, even in contests, because I surfed a lot and live 4 blocks from the beach. And the dream started with me surfing in nice waves, but I got out. And I am a businessman with my own little business now. And in the dream, I got out of the surf to run a business. And in the dream the wind began blowing, like it sometimes does in the afternoon at the beach. And the waves got what we call "choppy'. And then the business got worse and harder to run. The people I dealt with got stranger and more perverted. And at the end of the dream I wanted to go our surfing again to relax and get some peace, but the wind had turned the whole thing into a mess. The sea was just all turned up. So I stood there looking at the sea wondering how it (life in this world) all got so messed up.

My friends, the answer is that we, as a group and that means especially as a group of Christian people, did not listen to the Lord, so we didn't get our peace because we didn't listen to the Lord like we should! When that happens, as is explained in the Bible: the word of God to us becomes the line upon line of text in the Bible, which was written by a number of people who did listen to the Lord so it comes across as order on order, and it becomes a little hear and a little there because we study the Bible a little hear and there,

It is all explained in the Bible, which we claim to have studied:

Is 28: 12,13 He who said to them, “Here is rest, give rest to the weary,” And, “Here is repose,” but they would not listen.
So the word of the LORD to them will be, “Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there,”
That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.

Mat 13: 15 FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL, WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR,
AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES, OTHERWISE THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES,
HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN,
AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.'

Heb 5: 11,12 Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

Heb 5: 13,14 For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

From a new Christian, who has not spent years walking and talking with our Lord Jesus Christ, it is a wonderful thing to read about how they felt the Holy Spirit guiding them through the Bible. But for someone who says they have been reading the Bible for seventy years to not understand that the Bible was written to get them to seek the voice of the Lord for all areas of their life, that is a sad story!

The fact is that any surfer can tell you that in the morning the surf is usually calm and nice for surfing. But later the on shore winds blow and the surf get poor and is what surfers call, 'blown out'. Still, with luck and on a nice day, before the sun sets the sea will calm down again and the sea again might get what surfers call, glassy.

My friends, Jesus calms the seas!! We read that, right? So we need to actually turn back to Him and listen. We need to practice listening to Him. We need to do that so we will hear Him in words!!

Jn 6:63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

Isn't He supposed to guide us with the "words" that come out of His mouth? So, is that what was meant in the attached post?

 

[Karl Peters]

Admittedly, you did not have the name of Jesus invoked over you in baptism as per Acts 2:38 so you only bathed, and were not baptized.

The presuppose-er duped you, as he did it per RCC instructions...twice.

Do you know what "White Magic" is?

I already explain that I was not concerned what was being said that the people who dunked me in the water, but I would be surprised to find out that they didn't say "In the name of Jesus", because on was the main pastor in a large baptism church which was part of a large denomination of Baptist churches. It was a First Baptist church. Do they said, "In the name of Jesus"? Like mentioned already to you and over and over, I'm sure they do. And the other church too. The problem in clearly your understanding, not theirs!


Now I don't usually talk about "White Magic" but concept behind it should be understood. The concept behind "White Magic" is that people can to things referencing God but those things are not done in accordance with God but only by His name! We read about this in a couple of places in the Bible. Some more obvious than others.

Perhaps the most obvious is in the account of Simon.

Acts 8:9 Now there was a man named Simon, who formerly was practicing magic in the city and astonishing the people of Samaria, claiming to be someone great;

So the disciples found someone practicing magic, and claiming to be great. So he was not a humble man.

Acts 8: 12,13 But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike. Even Simon himself believed; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip, and as he observed signs and great miracles taking place, he was constantly amazed.

So, and interesting thing happens, even this Simon who liked magic decided to get baptized and He continued on with a disciple of the Lord.

Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John,

Even Peter and John go to where Simon happens to be.

Acts 8:15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

And we instantly read in the account of Simon the magician, that the people with Philip had been baptized in water, and "in the name of Jesus Christ" - which you are excessively concerned about, but not in the Holy Spirit. So we know that being baptized in water in the name of Jesus, according to what is actually written in the Bible and not your thinking, does not mean a person has been baptized in the Holy Spirit, as you seem to claim! Even a person practicing the dark art of magic, can be baptized in water in the name of the Lord Jesus, and not be baptized in the Holy Spirit. Which is opposite of your implications.

Acts 8:16 Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8: 17 -21 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money, saying, “Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” But Peter said to him, “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! “You have no part or portion in this matter, for your heart is not right before God.

This magician wanted the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but it was not given to him, even though he had been baptized in water and in the name of Jesus!!!

That is one of the obvious stories in the Bible about "the name of Jesus" not meaning you have part in the ministry of Jesus Christ! Which is opposite of your conclusion you came up with, and it seems you are saying you studied the Bible.

The following to me, is a more important and better explanation of the problem with your conclusions.

Mat 7:21-24 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’ “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.

In the above verse we find that "MANY" will try to tell the Lord that they were doing things, "in His name", but He told them He 'NEVER' knew them, and they got a final judgement!. Those people were not hearing those words of His and acting on them!!!

So take that time to actually look and read what I have been saying!!! I have been telling you to listen to the words of the Lord that He has for you, but you write back over and over about whether those people who baptized me in water actually used the name of Jesus! I am making it about actually getting to know Jesus Christ and you are making it about some phrase of words!

That is what "White Magic" is. It is trying to use a religious phrase like in the name of God, or in the name of Jesus, to get what you want. It does not require a relationship with Jesus Christ, but only a pretense. It does not require actually knowing Jesus Christ, hearing His words, and doing what He asks, but just is saying something is in His name.

His sheep hear His voice, so what part of that do you have - since you have made it about just saying, "In the name of Jesus"?


There was one other thing that need to be mention about the account of Simon the magician.

Acts 8: 22 “Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you.

On this forum I do not want to be so bold as Peter, but I want to point this out, because if anyone has been making it about just saying, "in the name of Jesus", but they have not actually come to know Him, then they need to repent of that wickedness and get to personally know our Lord Jesus Christ! They do not want to hear the final judgement from Him that they never knew Him!!

It is for that reason that He has asked me personally to preach the Word of God and that to mean Him, and that He wants us to listen to Him and His words for us personally!!

IT IS NOT ABOUT SAYING "IN THE NAME OF JESUS", IT IS ABOUT LISTENING TO THE LORD SO THAT WHAT YOU DO IN DONE IS DONE BECAUSE HE TOLD YOU TO DO IT. THAT IS WHAT IS ACTUALLY MEANT BY DOING SOMETHING IN THE NAME OF JESUS! IT IS NOT A PHRASE, IT IS A TRUE MEANING FOR THOSE WHO ACTUALLY DO KNOW HIM AND LISTEN TO HIM.

 

[Truther]

Do you know what "White Magic" is?

I already explain that I was not concerned what was being said that the people who dunked me in the water, but I would be surprised to find out that they didn't say "In the name of Jesus", because on was the main pastor in a large baptism church which was part of a large denomination of Baptist churches. It was a First Baptist church. Do they said, "In the name of Jesus"? Like mentioned already to you and over and over, I'm sure they do. And the other church too. The problem in clearly your understanding, not theirs!


Now I don't usually talk about "White Magic" but concept behind it should be understood. The concept behind "White Magic" is that people can to things referencing God but those things are not done in accordance with God but only by His name! We read about this in a couple of places in the Bible. Some more obvious than others.

Perhaps the most obvious is in the account of Simon.

Acts 8:9 Now there was a man named Simon, who formerly was practicing magic in the city and astonishing the people of Samaria, claiming to be someone great;

So the disciples found someone practicing magic, and claiming to be great. So he was not a humble man.

Acts 8: 12,13 But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike. Even Simon himself believed; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip, and as he observed signs and great miracles taking place, he was constantly amazed.

So, and interesting thing happens, even this Simon who liked magic decided to get baptized and He continued on with a disciple of the Lord.

Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John,

Even Peter and John go to where Simon happens to be.

Acts 8:15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

And we instantly read in the account of Simon the magician, that the people with Philip had been baptized in water, and "in the name of Jesus Christ" - which you are excessively concerned about, but not in the Holy Spirit. So we know that being baptized in water in the name of Jesus, according to what is actually written in the Bible and not your thinking, does not mean a person has been baptized in the Holy Spirit, as you seem to claim! Even a person practicing the dark art of magic, can be baptized in water in the name of the Lord Jesus, and not be baptized in the Holy Spirit. Which is opposite of your implications.

Acts 8:16 Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8: 17 -21 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money, saying, “Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” But Peter said to him, “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! “You have no part or portion in this matter, for your heart is not right before God.

This magician wanted the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but it was not given to him, even though he had been baptized in water and in the name of Jesus!!!

That is one of the obvious stories in the Bible about "the name of Jesus" not meaning you have part in the ministry of Jesus Christ! Which is opposite of your conclusion you came up with, and it seems you are saying you studied the Bible.

The following to me, is a more important and better explanation of the problem with your conclusions.

Mat 7:21-24 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’ “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.

In the above verse we find that "MANY" will try to tell the Lord that they were doing things, "in His name", but He told them He 'NEVER' knew them, and they got a final judgement!. Those people were not hearing those words of His and acting on them!!!

So take that time to actually look and read what I have been saying!!! I have been telling you to listen to the words of the Lord that He has for you, but you write back over and over about whether those people who baptized me in water actually used the name of Jesus! I am making it about actually getting to know Jesus Christ and you are making it about some phrase of words!

That is what "White Magic" is. It is trying to use a religious phrase like in the name of God, or in the name of Jesus, to get what you want. It does not require a relationship with Jesus Christ, but only a pretense. It does not require actually knowing Jesus Christ, hearing His words, and doing what He asks, but just is saying something is in His name.

His sheep hear His voice, so what part of that do you have - since you have made it about just saying, "In the name of Jesus"?


There was one other thing that need to be mention about the account of Simon the magician.

Acts 8: 22 “Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you.

On this forum I do not want to be so bold as Peter, but I want to point this out, because if anyone has been making it about just saying, "in the name of Jesus", but they have not actually come to know Him, then they need to repent of that wickedness and get to personally know our Lord Jesus Christ! They do not want to hear the final judgement from Him that they never knew Him!!

It is for that reason that He has asked me personally to preach the Word of God and that to mean Him, and that He wants us to listen to Him and His words for us personally!!

IT IS NOT ABOUT SAYING "IN THE NAME OF JESUS", IT IS ABOUT LISTENING TO THE LORD SO THAT WHAT YOU DO IN DONE IS DONE BECAUSE HE TOLD YOU TO DO IT. THAT IS WHAT IS ACTUALLY MEANT BY DOING SOMETHING IN THE NAME OF JESUS! IT IS NOT A PHRASE, IT IS A TRUE MEANING FOR THOSE WHO ACTUALLY DO KNOW HIM AND LISTEN TO HIM.

Obeying Peter per Acts 2:38 is considered "white magic"?

Is that what you folks teach now?

Peter was a sorcerer?

 

[Karl Peters]

Obeying Peter per Acts 2:38 is considered "white magic"?

Is that what you folks teach now?

Peter was a sorcerer?

We are not "obeying Peter"!!

We are obeying our Lord Jesus Christ!!!

And not doing that but pretending to do that results in "White Magic"!!

Peter was not a sorcerer, because Pete did look to and listened to our Lord Jesus Christ - but what about the person who thinks it is about looking to someone like Peter, instead of looking to our Lord and listening to Him??? They are not like Peter at all! They missed the meaning of what those like Peter were telling them; making them like Simon the sorcerer!!

That is obvious to believers in Jesus Christ, who understand full well that we are looking to and listening to Jesus Christ and not seeking someone like Peter!

Are you not making the same mistake as king Saul did, when he sought Samuel through a witch instead of seeking the Lord for himself??

You keep saying "in the name of Jesus Christ", but give no indication that you actually know Him! So what is going to be told you on that day when His final judgement comes down on you, except the truth. Still, He will speak the truth and so you better make sure the Truth doesn't tell you that He never knew you, like He is going to tell many who were claiming to do things in His name.

This is serious!! You better get to know Him, and that comes from listening to Him personally!!

 

[Truther]

We are not "obeying Peter"!!

We are obeying our Lord Jesus Christ!!!

And not doing that but pretending to do that results in "White Magic"!!

Peter was not a sorcerer, because Pete did look to and listened to our Lord Jesus Christ - but what about the person who thinks it is about looking to someone like Peter, instead of looking to our Lord and listening to Him??? They are not like Peter at all! They missed the meaning of what those like Peter were telling them; making them like Simon the sorcerer!!

That is obvious to believers in Jesus Christ, who understand full well that we are looking to and listening to Jesus Christ and not seeking someone like Peter!

Are you not making the same mistake as king Saul did, when he sought Samuel through a witch instead of seeking the Lord for himself??

You keep saying "in the name of Jesus Christ", but give no indication that you actually know Him! So what is going to be told you on that day when His final judgement comes down on you, except the truth. Still, He will speak the truth and so you better make sure the Truth doesn't tell you that He never knew you, like He is going to tell many who were claiming to do things in His name.

This is serious!! You better get to know Him, and that comes from listening to Him personally!!

So, when Peter said to the 3000 at Pentecost to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, he was disobeying Jesus per Matt 28:19?

Meaning, Peter should have said the name of the son per Matt 28:19 is really "son" and not "Jesus"?

He should have told the 3000 this...


38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name, SON for the remission of sins, ...

Instead of this?....

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, ....