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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
I have, and you and the RCC are wrong about amillennianism. But you can confirm them if you like.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
The proof is your not being able to find one verse in the gospels or epistles that presents the kingdom as physical. It is always spiritual.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Revelation 20 and 21 say differently. It is both, not just spiritual, but physical also and can be measured
If you make the kingdom physical in Revelation 20, after Jesus says repeatedly that it is not, but that it is spiritual instead, you add to the book.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Find one passage in the gospels and epistles that says the kingdom is physical and you will not add to Revelation. Here's a list I collected, it's not complete but I add to it whenever I stumble across another kingdom passage.
“And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) (KJV 1900)
“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12) (KJV 1900)
“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28) (KJV 1900)
“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” (1 Corinthians 15:50)
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (KJV 1900)
“Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5)
“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36) (KJV 1900)
“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:” (Luke 17:20) (KJV 1900)
“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)
“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)
“because we are not looking at what can be seen but at what cannot be seen. For what can be seen is temporary, but what cannot be seen is eternal.” (2 Corinthians 4:18)
“Now when the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus performed, they began to say to one another, “This is certainly the Prophet who is to come into the world.” Then Jesus, because he knew they were going to come and seize him by force to make him king, withdrew again up the mountainside alone.” (John 6:14–15)
“He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves,” (Colossians 1:13)
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Why would anyone confuse the New Jerusalem (a heavenly city) with the New Heavens and the New Earth (the universe)? And then to add insult to injury, claim that this is all symbolic?
Do you see the ABSURDITY of Preterism? If everything is symbolic, then you could make that claim for yourself. Tell the tax man that you are symbolic, and see what he has to say.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Revelation speaks in pictures describing spiritual realities? Do you believe you will see any red dragons or green horses trotting around anytime soon?
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I'm Amillennial, not Preterist. Revelation is a series of pictures denoting spiritual realities. You don't believe you will see red dragons or green horses do you?
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
It is a mixture, and it takes prophecy knowledge to understand what reality pictures are. In the case of Revelation, it also requires studying it at the same time you study Daniel.
The problem is whan people look for the symbol (picture) to become real, instead of what the symbol represents. You can see the mark of the beast today if you look for what the 666 in the hand or forehead represents, instead of waiting for someone to begin tattooing morons who would comply with such a thing if literal.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
“Then I looked, and here was the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him were one hundred and forty-four thousand, who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.” (Revelation 14:1) (NET)
Obviously the name on the forehead represents worship and allegiance. And so it is with the mark of the beast in the preceding chapter.
666 is the number of man, not of any man in particular. And people wear it whenever they obey man's wicked laws instead of God's laws.
Recently we saw this in America. The Obama administration passed sinful laws that people could not buy or sell unless they complied with them. Since the laws only affected a small segment, Christian businesses that catered to weddings and the like, people took little notice. But the Christian bakers and wedding host could not operate unless they complied. So in this case, those favoring the laws received the mark. And those who resisted them did not.
But this is the case throughout history, ever since Nero and the Papacy, Christians suffered and died from not receiving the mark.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
I agree to a large extent. But more specifically, I see it as having to do with Islam. I don't know for sure, but regard Obama as an Islam plant, set to destroy America. In the last month of his presidency after his candidate, HC, didn't win, he approved 160,000,000,000 dollars to Iran, our enemy, specifically for their Nuclear weapons development! He is a traitor!
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