How many former Catholics are here?

[Big Boy Johnson]

I do not believe that is an appropriate statement.

Well you believe wrong. Only those led by the Holy Spirit are the sons of God (Romans 8:14)

The Real Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ does not led people to follow traditions of religious men, and extra biblical sources that are not inspired by the Holy Spirit

So praying to Mary and other dead saints is idolatry among other teachings the catholics embrace that are not of God.

If catholics actually knew the Lord they would pray directly to the Father (talking about God, not your catholic priest dudes) in Jesus' Name which are the instructions Jesus gave. What Jesus said to do isn't good enough for the catholics because they don't know Him and refuse to be led of the Lord Jesus

I have known Christians that murmured nonsense believing they were speaking tongues.

You should see what the Lord said in His Word about this so you could speak intelligently on this topic

1 Corinthians 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh NOT unto men, but unto God: for NO MAN UNDERSTANDS HIM howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

It's not mean for you to understand what another person is saying when speaking in tongues unless it's in a public service and there is an interpreter present.

Does the Holy Spirit convict you on theology?

He convicts people that false doctrine such as catholicism is not of God.

Those refusing to accept His correction are turned over to a reprobate mind.

That is incoherent nonsense.

Only to those who don't know the Lord and who do not have the Holy Spirit such as the catholics

 

[Debp]

How is one in fellowship with the Lord? Christians generally state they are in fellowship with other Christians, not with God. In every moment, God makes existence possible. Fellowship is a collection or collaboration.

2the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— 3that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 4And these things we write to you that your joy may be full.
1 John 1:2-4

5This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
1 John 1:5-6

 

[Apples]

If some belief or practice can not be found in scripture it is by definition unscriptural. But not all disagreements between denominations come down to something being unscriptural.

It is a word that is hypocritically and maliciously used by particular groups. I do not say that lightly.

Group A follows the bible and happens to like1, 2, and 3.
Group B follows the bible and happens to like 4, 5, and 6.

1-6 can be anything. Please no one read into thus. It can be a church carnival to raise money. Easter hats. A mother's day celebration. A TV broadcast. I know, know some people are salivating at the mouth. They want to educate stupid me with the bible. Well technically they did not have TV, but...

Jesus never instructed you to generate Sunday worship services on TV.
And I know, I know, I know, there are three or more convoluted ways to argue what is done is okay.
BUT PASTOR JEFF ALWAYS WEARS A PINK SUIT.

Where is that in scripture. But... but.... it is not against scripture.

Group B does not say 1, 2, 3 are ***AGAINST*** scripture.
Group B has noy even the slightest concept of what is AGAINST scripture and what is not mentioned in scripture.
Group B does not get the above sentence. At all.

Group B gets up on their high and mighty horse and declares to all of Christiandom -Where is that in the bible. A-HA!
There are people, right now, that believe that is a justified question without understanding if you pull one hour of their Sunday services you have 3 blathering minutes of it that could be argued to be "scriptural" about how that is "of that bible."

For me it has nothing to do with the ice cream social, or what your pastor wears, or the fact you do this that and the other. It is a problem when people are so brainwashed and uneducated by their groups that think 1, 2, 3 is okay by Jesus, but 4 5 and 6 is not of us and not found explicitly beating me over the head in scripture

Most of the time people choose to believe some scriptures but will ignore others.

People believe in what their group understands as "biblical" and they are all for it until they need a divorce.
The did not search the scriptures. They search for mental excuses.

For example we are to love our neighbors as ourselves. But we are also commanded to correct, rebuke, and encourage. One might think that confronting sin would make these two verses contradict. That however is not the case

If we look to other scriptures such as Proverbs 27:5-6 we can see there is no conflict. As a friend's rebuke is shown to be an act of love.

5"Better is open rebuke
than hidden love.

6 Wounds from a friend can be trusted,
but an enemy multiplies kisses."

Oh look, the prot trump card. This is what happens when you are indoctrinated at Sunday service by pastor I went to seminary for one year and the Holy Spirit did the rest. No one has any idea of what I am talking about.

I pointed out those terms and no one knows.
What I know is that the Holy Spirit gives you extra special magic and it is only through this extra special magic that I can understand terms that cannot be define.
Well, that is how you know it is of the LORD.


1) Points do not need to necessarily be logical
2) Points must conclude with a bible verse unrelated because even if it does apply, you cannot argue with the bible. If you argue with me, you are arguing with God.

 

[Apples]

Well you believe wrong. Only those led by the Holy Spirit are the sons of God (Romans 8:14)

[/QUOTE]

You know this guy knows the bible because he quoted Romans. I cannot disagree with him.

-bible quote alert-

You do not explain how that verse is relevant to your point. You are so used to this game you have some 50 verses highlight in your bible to throw down.

The Real Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ does not led people to follow traditions of religious men, and extra biblical sources that are not inspired by the Holy Spirit

I did not know that there was a Real Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ.

I think the Real Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ might be a touch bit not in the bible and contradiction to all notions of the Trinity.

So praying to Mary and other dead saints is idolatry among other teachings the catholics embrace that are not of God.

Did you notice there were prayer requests on this forum? So, you can ask a person who is going to die to pray for you, but you should not ask a person who has eternal life?

I believe in the Resurrection.

If catholics actually knew the Lord they would pray directly to the Father (talking about God, not your catholic priest dudes) in Jesus' Name which are the instructions Jesus gave. What Jesus said to do isn't good enough for the catholics because they don't know Him and refuse to be led of the Lord Jesus

If Catholics actually knew that Lord-
They would understand your isms and idioms. From the fountain of random empty statements.

You should see what the Lord said in His Word about this so you could speak intelligently on this topic

1 Corinthians 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh NOT unto men, but unto God: for NO MAN UNDERSTANDS HIM howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

You did not with a random quote that should force me to accept however illogical your statements were.

It's not mean for you to understand what another person is saying when speaking in tongues unless it's in a public service and there is an interpreter present.

There is a thing called science. Disproven in snake shaker church.

He convicts people that false doctrine such as catholicism is not of God.

Those refusing to accept His correction are turned over to a reprobate mind.

If I ignore all of Christian history and find myself in a frenzy, I will follow Joseph Smith, plant my seed money,, and drink Flavor-Aid?

Only to those who don't know the Lord and who do not have the Holy Spirit such as the catholics

So you can determine who "has the Holy Spirit?

 

[lforrest]

It is a word that is hypocritically and maliciously used by particular groups. I do not say that lightly.

Group A follows the bible and happens to like1, 2, and 3.
Group B follows the bible and happens to like 4, 5, and 6.

1-6 can be anything. Please no one read into thus. It can be a church carnival to raise money. Easter hats. A mother's day celebration. A TV broadcast. I know, know some people are salivating at the mouth. They want to educate stupid me with the bible. Well technically they did not have TV, but...

Jesus never instructed you to generate Sunday worship services on TV.
And I know, I know, I know, there are three or more convoluted ways to argue what is done is okay.
BUT PASTOR JEFF ALWAYS WEARS A PINK SUIT.

Where is that in scripture. But... but.... it is not against scripture.

Group B does not say 1, 2, 3 are ***AGAINST*** scripture.
Group B has noy even the slightest concept of what is AGAINST scripture and what is not mentioned in scripture.
Group B does not get the above sentence. At all.

Group B gets up on their high and mighty horse and declares to all of Christiandom -Where is that in the bible. A-HA!
There are people, right now, that believe that is a justified question without understanding if you pull one hour of their Sunday services you have 3 blathering minutes of it that could be argued to be "scriptural" about how that is "of that bible."

For me it has nothing to do with the ice cream social, or what your pastor wears, or the fact you do this that and the other. It is a problem when people are so brainwashed and uneducated by their groups that think 1, 2, 3 is okay by Jesus, but 4 5 and 6 is not of us and not found explicitly beating me over the head in scripture


People believe in what their group understands as "biblical" and they are all for it until they need a divorce.
The did not search the scriptures. They search for mental excuses.




Oh look, the prot trump card. This is what happens when you are indoctrinated at Sunday service by pastor I went to seminary for one year and the Holy Spirit did the rest. No one has any idea of what I am talking about.

I pointed out those terms and no one knows.
What I know is that the Holy Spirit gives you extra special magic and it is only through this extra special magic that I can understand terms that cannot be define.
Well, that is how you know it is of the LORD.


1) Points do not need to necessarily be logical
2) Points must conclude with a bible verse unrelated because even if it does apply, you cannot argue with the bible. If you argue with me, you are arguing with God.

It is written, "Let God be true and every man a Liar."
So it doesn't matter to me what Groups 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 or 10 say. And I don't have to answer to them anyways. But everyone will have to answer to God.

 

[bdavidc]

I do not believe that is an appropriate statement. If non-Catholics did not make things up they'd all be in agreement.

Agreement does not come from everyone “making things up.” It comes from submitting to what God has already said. Scripture says the faith was once delivered to the saints ~Jude 1:3 and warns against adding to it ~Galatians 1:8–9. Disagreement exists because many choose tradition, philosophy, or selective reading over the whole counsel of God ~Matthew 15:9, ~2 Timothy 4:3–4. Truth is not decided by consensus. It is decided by Scripture.

 

[bdavidc]

I have known Christians who claimed they got saved and were born again. They claims that for a while. I have known Christians that murmured nonsense believing they were speaking tongues.

You are judging Christianity by watching people, not by listening to God. Scripture already warns that not everyone who claims to be saved truly is ~Matthew 7:21–23. Some will profess faith for a time and then fall away because there was no root ~Luke 8:13. That does not expose Christianity as false, it exposes false converts.

The Bible also warns that many will speak falsely and misuse spiritual gifts ~1 Corinthians 14:23, ~2 Timothy 3:5. False teaching and counterfeit behavior do not come from obedience to God. They come from disobedience.

Scripture is clear. Those who do not abide in Christ and do not obey His teaching are not His ~John 8:31, ~1 John 2:3–4. That is where your confusion comes from. You are looking at people who claim Christ while rejecting His Word and then calling that Christianity.

True Christianity is defined by Scripture, not by what men say or how they behave. If someone teaches falsely and does not obey the truth of God, the Bible does not call them Christians ~Titus 1:16. Place your eyes on what God has spoken, not on the failures of men.

 

[bdavidc]

They do things differently, which means they are wrong, because obviously you are not.

How is one in fellowship with the Lord? Christians generally state they are in fellowship with other Christians, not with God. In every moment, God makes existence possible. Fellowship is a collection or collaboration.

You are redefining words rather than letting the Bible speak for itself. Scripture clearly says believers have fellowship with God ~1 John 1:3 and are called into fellowship with His Son ~1 Corinthians 1:9. That is not philosophy. That is Bible.

Catholic practices are not just “different.” They contradict Scripture. The Bible says there is one mediator, Jesus Christ ~1 Timothy 2:5. We confess sins to God ~1 John 1:9. Scripture never teaches prayer to saints or priest-assigned penance.

 

[bdavidc]

Does the Holy Spirit convict you on theology? Or does the Holy Spirit only share something with you if it feels right?

You keep looking at the smoke rather than the fire. You watch people, institutions, history, and poor examples and then blame Christianity for the mess. Scripture says not to do that. God says, “Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils” ~Isaiah 2:22. Christianity is not determined by who wears a pink suit, who went to seminary, or who abused a gift. It is determined by obedience to Christ.

The Holy Spirit is not an independent source of new truth. He does not invent doctrine or add revelations. Scripture says the Spirit “will guide you into all truth” and “will not speak of himself” but will take what belongs to Christ and make it known ~John 16:13–14. The truth already exists. The Spirit reveals and applies what God has already spoken. If a teaching contradicts Scripture, the Spirit is not behind it, no matter how old it is or how many people believe it.

You keep mixing apples and oranges. Asking living believers to pray is biblical ~James 5:16. Praying to the dead is not. God says prayer is directed to Him ~Matthew 6:9 and that there is one mediator, Jesus Christ ~1 Timothy 2:5. That is not semantics. That is authority.

You also keep pointing at false teachers and saying, “See?” Scripture already told us they would exist ~Matthew 7:15, ~2 Peter 2:1. Counterfeits prove the real thing exists. They don’t disprove it.

Jesus said not everyone who claims Him belongs to Him ~Matthew 7:21–23. Real Christianity is not tradition plus time. It is truth plus obedience. If someone does not abide in Christ’s Word, Scripture says they are not His ~John 8:31, ~1 John 2:3–4.

So here’s the truth. Stop measuring Christianity by men and start measuring men by Scripture. When God speaks, the debate is over.

 

[Apples]

So it doesn't matter to me what Groups 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 or 10 say. And I don't have to answer to them anyways. But everyone will have to answer to God.

You are the one that used a malicious and hypocritical word.

For fake example only:
Every year the Greek Orthodox church downtown has "GreekFest" full of Greek food and culture and brings in many people and raises tons of money. The folks next door at First Baptist get jealous and ask, "Where is that in scripture?"
Greekfest is not in the bible, but it is not against the bible. One could argue that there is a lot written in support of such an event.
When First Baptist is asked where their famous Easter hat Sunday, they are in the same boat.

Calling something unscriptural is malicious and deliberate. Hypocrites love to go around throwing mud and declaring Where is that in the bible without bothering to ask that about their own group. They are so full of themselves.

 

[David in NJ]

Calling something unscriptural is malicious and deliberate. Hypocrites love to go around throwing mud and declaring Where is that in the bible without bothering to ask that about their own group. They are so full of themselves.

a.) The Lord Jesus Christ was a hypocrite?

b.) The Apostles were hypocrites?

c.) The Holy Spirit is hypocritical?

d.) all of the above is true

e.) none of the above is true

 

[Apples]

Agreement does not come from everyone “making things up.” It comes from submitting to what God has already said. Scripture says the faith was once delivered to the saints ~Jude 1:3 and warns against adding to it ~Galatians 1:8–9. Disagreement exists because many choose tradition, philosophy, or selective reading over the whole counsel of God ~Matthew 15:9, ~2 Timothy 4:3–4. Truth is not decided by consensus. It is decided by Scripture.

You are just incoherently babbling.

 

[Apples]

You are judging Christianity by watching people, not by listening to God. <more incoherent babbling>

No, I am judging Christians who are being malicious and hypocritical. If you want to address that, please do so. I do not play the bible game where you have 50 verses memorized and try to force it into a religious discussion.

I realize in your religious tradition it makes it seem like you know the bible. Most people just turn off from addressing people playing that game.

 

[David in NJ]

No, I am judging Christians who are being malicious and hypocritical. If you want to address that, please do so. I do not play the bible game where you have 50 verses memorized and try to force it into a religious discussion.

I realize in your religious tradition it makes it seem like you know the bible. Most people just turn off from addressing people playing that game.

a.) The Lord Jesus Christ was playing a scripture game?

b.) The Apostles were playing scripture games?

c.) The Holy Spirit developed scripture game wars?

d.) all of the above is true

e.) none of the above is true

 

[Apples]

You are redefining words rather than letting the Bible speak for itself.

Please. just stop.
The bible does not speak for itself.

Catholic practices are not just “different.” They contradict Scripture. [...]. Scripture never teaches prayer to saints or priest-assigned penance.

That is not a contradiction to even your interpretation of scripture.
What you wrote does not contradict scripture.
"Scripture never teaches" This is my exact point.

That is not a contradiction. A contradiction would be to go against scripture.

If I go to a store and steal, that is a violation of the law. That is against the law. That is a contradiction of the law.

The law can require me to do things, like pay taxes.
If there is no law, there is no contradiction.

The law does not address <insert here> so I am not in contradiction with the law on <insert here>.

In this case the bible actually recommends confessing your sins. Penance is also well known in the bible.

 

[Apples]

You keep looking at the smoke rather than the fire. You watch people, institutions, history, and poor examples and then blame Christianity for the mess. Scripture says not to do that. [...]Christianity is not determined by who wears a pink suit, who went to seminary, or who abused a gift. It is determined by obedience to Christ.

I am not blaming Christians for anything. Please drop the fifty verses act.

Really, it is annoying. I know the game and it is played in churches where reading the bible is an accomplishment. You learn 50 verses and can force them into any conversation and I am to be impressed that you know the bible. It impresses all the old ladies who know phrases from Olsteen and Meyers.


You have certain Christians that never studied, who one day got Jesus, and went around blabbering about things that could not define or express. When they got caught with their pants down as the frauds they were, they said it was a matter of the spirit!!! They wave around a bible and act emotional.

The Holy Spirit is not an independent source of new truth.

Okay - let us examine that statement. What do you mean by "new truth?" I have no idea what you are saying. I think you are repeating something someone blathered out and it seemed like a profound statement.

He does not invent doctrine or add revelations. [...] The truth already exists.

That is correct. The truth is eternal and is revealed over time.

The Spirit reveals and applies what God has already spoken. If a teaching contradicts Scripture, the Spirit is not behind it, no matter how old it is or how many people believe it.

The problem is that you do not seem to understand the word contradict.

You keep mixing apples and oranges. Asking living believers to pray is biblical ~James 5:16. Praying to the dead is not. God says prayer is directed to Him ~Matthew 6:9 and that there is one mediator, Jesus Christ ~1 Timothy 2:5. That is not semantics. That is authority.

You are waving your bible and wiping your forehead.

Christians of the ancient churches do not pray to the dead. They pray to God, in whom they are glorified.

I believe in the Resurrected.

You also keep pointing at false teachers and saying, “See?” Scripture already told us they would exist ~Matthew 7:15, ~2 Peter 2:1. Counterfeits prove the real thing exists. They don’t disprove it.

They don't disprove what?

Jesus said not everyone who claims Him belongs to Him ~Matthew 7:21–23. Real Christianity is not tradition plus time. It is truth plus obedience. If someone does not abide in Christ’s Word, Scripture says they are not His ~John 8:31, ~1 John 2:3–4.

So here’s the truth. Stop measuring Christianity by men and start measuring men by Scripture. When God speaks, the debate is over.

What you mean is that when you quote one or more of your fifty verses you have dropped the microphone and if a person disagrees with what you stated prior to your fifty verses, they are arguing with God.

 

[Apples]

a.) The Lord Jesus Christ was a hypocrite?

That would be impossible, as He is God. You are so deep into the strawman game.

b.) The Apostles were hypocrites?

c.) The Holy Spirit is hypocritical?

d.) all of the above is true

e.) none of the above is true

You are not making a point. You are playing the strawman game. You are asking questions that you know I cannot disagree with and that I never brought into question. You will then put a gold star on your forehead and think that you made a point.

 

[Grailhunter]

Salvation began in Genesis

The OT saints were saved by the Holy Spirit the same way we are today = Faith in the WORD that was GOD

To be Born-Again means that GOD has brought you to Saving Faith in His WORD = This is called the Circumcision of the heart

The Circumcision of the heart is the Work of the Holy Spirit in revealing the need of Salvation via faith in the Word of God.

The OT saints were not given nor could they receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as Christ had not yet Come and fulfilled the Law.

The more I hear from you the more I realize that you have some weird beliefs......but interesting.
Happy New Year!

 

[amigo de christo]

It is written, "Let God be true and every man a Liar."
So it doesn't matter to me what Groups 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 or 10 say. And I don't have to answer to them anyways. But everyone will have to answer to God.

Yes indeed my friend .
My Words shall be His judge .
We darn sure wont be standing before the doctrines of men .
MY as in JESUS OWN WORDS will be the judge .
Let us stay glued in the holy scriptures . let G OD be true and every man a liar .

 

[amigo de christo]

a.) The Lord Jesus Christ was playing a scripture game?

b.) The Apostles were playing scripture games?

c.) The Holy Spirit developed scripture game wars?

d.) all of the above is true

e.) none of the above is true

Verily verily i type unto thee
WHY is it ye beleive that apples wrote as he did .
The TRUTH cannot be overcome david .
So when folks bring said truth in the scripture , ITS always the same response . Some kind of card gets pulled .
Like the RELI GIOUS card , or hater card , judger card .
SCRIPTURE IS T RUTH and INSPIRED BY HE WHO IS THE TRUTH .
Many had rather heed cards rather than scripture . cause cards justify their fleshly desires , WHILE as scripture
EXPOSES IT . those who cling to the H oly scriptures
are often accused of legalism and any other ism they can invent . Just a friendly reminder to us all .