Born_Again
Well-Known Member
You're not paying attention.Stranger said:
It says "In relation to the OP" No one said anything about Jesus.
How many years ago did Dinosaurs last walk the earth?
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It says "In relation to the OP" No one said anything about Jesus.
(Luke 24:27) " And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself."Born_Again said:
(Luke 24:44) " And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me."
Stranger
Wormwood
Chaps
Stranger said:
I didnt say the Scriptures wouldn't have made sense to the original audience. I was saying if the hermeneutical method or interpretation would not have made sense to the original audience then it probably isn't right. I highly doubt the ancient Israelites were pondering the exact age of the earth or attempting to use the Genesis narrative to determine if dinosaurs and human beings coexisted...just as 1st century Christians were not reading Revelation and envisioning helicopters, tanks or nuclear wars. The text made sense to the original audience and to interpret it in a way that makes it completely foreign to their way of thinking is a misuse of the inspired author's intent....in my opinion anyway.
Yes, you did say that. Because what you are saying is that to interpret certain passages or books of Scripture, as looking forward to the future or looking back to the past, would not have made sense to the original audience. One doesn't have to have helicopters or nuclear wars to understand that these things spoken of are end time events. One doesn't have to have fossils dated to understand that what is being spoken of pertained to a time in a distant past.Wormwood said:
And, as I mentioned before, concerning (1Peter 1:10-12) God wasn't always concerned that everyone understood everything about a prophecy or revelation He gave. In these verses the prophets who were given the revelation didn't understand the time they spoke of. Yet they searched the Scriptures to try and find out. So, whether it makes sense to the generation to which the revelation is given is really immaterial.
And, God specifically sealed the book of Daniel so that the generation in which it was given would not understand it. (Dan. 12:4,9) But it was for understanding the time of the end. Contrast that with the book of Revelation in which a blessing is given to those who read and hear the things in it. (Rev.1:3) Why? Because as (1:3) says, "for the time is at hand". Therefore, a revelation given by God could have meaning to the audience it was originally given and have meaning for future audiences and pertain to future things. Or, a revelation given by God may not be intended for the generation in which it was given. It could be just for a future generation and pertain to future things.
Now, understand that God does give understanding of future or past events through the revelation He has given. (Heb.11:24-26) "By faith Moses....Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches...." How could Moses esteem the reproach of Christ when Christ was some 1500 years future?
How could Enoch speak of the Second coming of Christ, (Jude 14-15) when he was the seventh son of Adam?
Stranger
Born_Again
Well-Known Member
Oh my gosh!! HAHA!! What are you going on about? Re-read the title of the post... We were talking about dinosaurs... You've gone off on your own thing now. Steer it back around or I'll shut this thread down due to your hijacking it for your own platform.Stranger said:
What I said was in response to your post #19. No one is hijacking anything. Go ahead, shut it down. That's easier than answering the questions or staying in the debate. Maybe moderators shouldn't be allowed to participate in any debate. Because when they can't hold their positiion, they shut it down.Born_Again said:
Go ahead. This ain't the only forum. You ain't the only rodeo.
Stranger
Wormwood
Chaps
Well that is your faulty interpretation of what I am saying, but I think I know my own mind and what I am saying and what I am not saying. Again, if a 21st century person is drawing conclusions or trying to answer questions that would have been foreign to the thinking of the early writer or reader, then the fault is with the interpretive method, not the writing. Yes, the Bible speaks of the beginning of creation as well as the end times. However, it speaks of these things in ways that made sense and communicated theological truths to their intended audiences. They were not trying to talk about Russia, the United States, nuclear bombs or helicopters. They were not trying to reconcile fossil records or create apologetics against evolutionary worldviews. To use these texts in these ways would completely be outside the realm of the purpose of the text. Its like trying to use a bathroom scale to measure the length of a table. It wasn't created for that purpose and so any effort to use the text that way is only going to take the Bible in directions it was never intended to go.Stranger said:
Well, you and I have a very different understanding of Daniel or Revelation that is probably a much longer conversation intended for a different forum, so I will leave that alone.
I also think you are misunderstanding Jude.
The point is simple. Jude's audience understood what Jude was talking about. Yes, some authors spoke of future judgments or the future coming of Christ. The point is, the readers clearly understood what this meant for them as well as for the world. A first century person could read Revelation and say, "I understand this. It makes sense to me and I recognize I need to live my life differently as a result." If we fill it with tanks, bombs, Russia, etc...then it becomes wholly unrecognizable to the audience for which it was intended originally. Personally, it looks to me like 21st century hermeneutical arrogance to say, "Ok, this is written only for me and my generation and all previous generations were ignored because I am in the last days and they were not." To me that is just silly.
Wormwood
Is it silly that God told Daniel to seal up the revelation He gave him because it was for another time? (Dan.12:4,9)
As I said before, some futuristic revelation God gave was for every generation to know, such as the book of Revelation. But, as they would read it they would know it spoke to future things.
Thus my point concerning the gap theory which takes us back to the Dinosaurs. Just as we can recognize Scripture that speaks to a future day, so can we recognize Scripture that speaks to a past day. And every generation that has the Scripture can do so depending on how much Scripture they have.
Stranger
Is it silly that God told Daniel to seal up the revelation He gave him because it was for another time? (Dan.12:4,9)
As I said before, some futuristic revelation God gave was for every generation to know, such as the book of Revelation. But, as they would read it they would know it spoke to future things.
Thus my point concerning the gap theory which takes us back to the Dinosaurs. Just as we can recognize Scripture that speaks to a future day, so can we recognize Scripture that speaks to a past day. And every generation that has the Scripture can do so depending on how much Scripture they have.
Stranger
Born_Again
Well-Known Member
Please note post #19 is where YOU took it down a different road. I can hold my position just fine. You lead it somewhere else for some unknown reason, Which is why I emphasized you needed to bring it back around to the OP and stop derailing.Stranger said:
Well, what I responded to was in post #19. There was no derailing. You made a statement about all is just a theory cause we weren't there. That just as silly as saying we don't really know if what is said about Jesus Christ is true, cause we weren't there.Born_Again said:
So, you see, my comment was not derailing. It was there to show how ludicrous your statement was.
Stranger
Born_Again
Well-Known Member
Even more so. You knew my point. And look at the road you traveled down the rest of the thread. How long did it take you get back around to the OP? This is not uncommon for you on most threads.Stranger said:
I never left the OP. All I said was in response to the OP.Born_Again said:
I'm sure at times I have drifted away from the OP. Like everyone does. It is only natural if one wants to respond to everything being said by others. Yourself included.
Stranger
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All these creation theories rest upon a few verses. Jesus' existence is shown clearly in half the bible and prophesied in the other half. The absurdity of comparing the two in Post #19 is a giant straw man.Stranger said:
It is not the amount of verses that is important. It is that it is written in the Bible that makes it important.lforrest said:
This is one of the reasons we study the Bible; to learn what we don't know; to have God show us something that we didn't know before. In other words, to say we were not there so we cannot know is a defeatist attitude. One may as well say we can't know for sure about Christ because we were not there.
Stranger
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If it weren't for the apostles who were there we wouldn't know about Jesus. But good news for us, God deemed the subject important enough to give us many details.Stranger said:
When it comes to doctrine we should have a humble attitude, or as you call it defeatist, so we don't go off on a tangent from the truth revealed in scripture and make up our own story around it. How does the saying go, "the best lies contain an element of truth."
Doctrine should be anchored in scripture firmly. Sure a theory could be right if it doesn't contradict scripture, but there is no guarantee that it is right.
I didn't call a humble attitude defeatist. I called the one who wants to say that we cant know because we were not there defeatist. Such manipulation. Your Roman brothers should be proud.lforrest said:
So, are you saying the best lies of Romanist doctrine contains an 'element of truth'? I doiubt it.
What a stupid statement you made. You are equating doctrine that is firmly equated in Scripture, with a 'no guarantee that is is right'.
Stranger
Here is something i sent on telegram messenger to a friend, I will paste it here and leave it for you guys to think about, it may even stun some people, I've just given a lot of reasons why I believe God's creation as we know it, is only a few thousand years old.
My theory is Israelites, they have been around for ages, and the Hebrew calendar is only up to year 5777, so earth couldn't be much older, then we can only back track to a few thousand bc of definite history, and what i mean by that is major events that were recorded that definitely happened, and we are only up to 2017 AD, that also suggests that earth is only a few thousand years old, then the Bible talks about birds and beasts of the field in many parts in many parts of it, could not some of them been dinosaurs and mammoths. Then there is David and "Goliath" the giant, if their were giants back in Davids day, there's no reason why they couldn't have had dinosaurs, then there's dinosaur bones discovered in Egyptian pyramids, Egyptian drawings with dinosaurs, Egyptians must have lived amoung dinosaurs a few thousand years ago, so i don't believe dinosaurs were extinct "millions of years ago" then there is you look through the biblical geneaology and timeline, there is not millions of years in human history or the history of the earth the way God formed it, there was no 2 ages because the Earth was void and filled with darkness in Genesis 1:2, which also answers another question, why was Satan kicked out of heaven down to earth? Why not outer space? If the earth was a dark, empty, lonely place back then, it would have been great reason to cast Satan down to earth. it would have been worst than a prison for Satan. Then there is other reasons, the earth would have been heavily populated in the days of Noah, but it wasn't that populated, if the earth was millions of years old, by the time it got to Noah's day there would have been billions of people, maybe even more than there is today, there could have been, but highly unlikely, there just is not enough ancient ruins, ancient buildings and stuff in the world, to have accomodated billions and billions of people back then. And how do all these geologists and scientists really know how old the earth is? After all they were not there way back in the day of Adam. But when you look at the Bible and all other history, how many generations can you count between Adam and now? probably only a few hundred, which would mean God's creation as we know it, is probably no more than 7000 years. So i actually believe the earth is quite young, with all the numbers and figures the Bible gives us, and the few remains of ancient civilizations we see today. So how can people stretch out earths short history over millions and millions of years? When all of it happened so close together. Therefore for very many reasons I believe the earth is only a few thousand years old, it may not be 6000, but it wouldn't be far off from it.
My theory is Israelites, they have been around for ages, and the Hebrew calendar is only up to year 5777, so earth couldn't be much older, then we can only back track to a few thousand bc of definite history, and what i mean by that is major events that were recorded that definitely happened, and we are only up to 2017 AD, that also suggests that earth is only a few thousand years old, then the Bible talks about birds and beasts of the field in many parts in many parts of it, could not some of them been dinosaurs and mammoths. Then there is David and "Goliath" the giant, if their were giants back in Davids day, there's no reason why they couldn't have had dinosaurs, then there's dinosaur bones discovered in Egyptian pyramids, Egyptian drawings with dinosaurs, Egyptians must have lived amoung dinosaurs a few thousand years ago, so i don't believe dinosaurs were extinct "millions of years ago" then there is you look through the biblical geneaology and timeline, there is not millions of years in human history or the history of the earth the way God formed it, there was no 2 ages because the Earth was void and filled with darkness in Genesis 1:2, which also answers another question, why was Satan kicked out of heaven down to earth? Why not outer space? If the earth was a dark, empty, lonely place back then, it would have been great reason to cast Satan down to earth. it would have been worst than a prison for Satan. Then there is other reasons, the earth would have been heavily populated in the days of Noah, but it wasn't that populated, if the earth was millions of years old, by the time it got to Noah's day there would have been billions of people, maybe even more than there is today, there could have been, but highly unlikely, there just is not enough ancient ruins, ancient buildings and stuff in the world, to have accomodated billions and billions of people back then. And how do all these geologists and scientists really know how old the earth is? After all they were not there way back in the day of Adam. But when you look at the Bible and all other history, how many generations can you count between Adam and now? probably only a few hundred, which would mean God's creation as we know it, is probably no more than 7000 years. So i actually believe the earth is quite young, with all the numbers and figures the Bible gives us, and the few remains of ancient civilizations we see today. So how can people stretch out earths short history over millions and millions of years? When all of it happened so close together. Therefore for very many reasons I believe the earth is only a few thousand years old, it may not be 6000, but it wouldn't be far off from it.
Dinos walked the earth with man up until the flood. Created on day four five was it. Cant mind. There was no gap between man and dinos. They walked together. Think the earth is 5776 years old to date. Jewish calander.
Ps mind this is adams flood I am talking about not satans the ferrets flood. Note the small "s" and give him no place or capital
Ps mind this is adams flood I am talking about not satans the ferrets flood. Note the small "s" and give him no place or capital
If you are reading you bible to the bible your going to come up short. If you are reading to proof someone wrong thats also a zero.Stranger said:
If you are reading you bible to become like Him, to live like Him, and get to know Him. Now your on it.
So I am guessing this is the "other reasons" So hard not to print them here. Actully worth more than the whole thread. Its a relationship, Woohoo. Its like the flower petal thing. He loves me. He loves me. He loves me. and where ever you stop He loves me
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