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How sure to be saved?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by David323, Feb 28, 2008.

  1. David323

    David323 New Member

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    This is something I thought I knew about but Satan seems to be trying to confuse me. I'm trying to help another christian lead others to Jesus. He asked me "what if someone is only kind of sure they believe Jesus died for thier sins, are they saved?". I told him faith is not really a 100% sure thing, you just believe it and then when you get what you had faith in, then you KNOW it. So then, what about someone who has just a little faith, but yet still calls on the Lord to save him? I would think he would be saved based on the verses I know.
     
  2. Mikey

    Mikey New Member

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    Satan always try to make me think I am not saved and he does a good job of it [​IMG] get worried and confused a lot. I would like to know too.
     
  3. tim_from_pa

    tim_from_pa New Member

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    (David323;38368)
    This is something I thought I knew about but Satan seems to be trying to confuse me. I'm trying to help another christian lead others to Jesus. He asked me "what if someone is only kind of sure they believe Jesus died for thier sins, are they saved?". I told him faith is not really a 100% sure thing, you just believe it and then when you get what you had faith in, then you KNOW it. So then, what about someone who has just a little faith, but yet still calls on the Lord to save him? I would think he would be saved based on the verses I know.
    Jesus said, "All that the Father gives to me will come to me, and he who comes to me I will no way cast out" .... or to that effect anyway. If one wants to come to Christ, then that presupposes there is faith there and that the Father called him.Now.... once one asks Christ to be their Savior, will He do it?He's one of my favorite verses.....God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? (Numbers 23:19)I think that should erase all doubt right there.
     
  4. Siskim

    Siskim New Member

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    It is kinda tough I think with people who feel this way...my input is this...to ask ourself or someone else Why they asked God to save them...and what He saved them from...There may be a million reasons in Grace to choose God, but the Law provides one...the Law which "perfectly converts the soul"....we are saved because we knew that we were doomed...completely covered in sin with no way to free ourself from it...we knew we were on the march to hell without God...with no hope... the Law completely condemns us...we cannot in any way fully measure up to it....it was given for this purpose...to show man his sin and hopelessness....If we choose God for any other reason, we may be like the seed than fell on stony ground...when the cares of this life or persecution arise we blow away....Someone said there is a no-follow up Salvation....which means...if we really know what we are saved from then we really know that not a thing in this entire world matters more than this Great Salvation...If we realize that we are or were a doomed sinner...and did or do believe that Christ did die for our sins and to reedeem us from the wages of sin...and we did or do ask Him...to save us, to forgive us of all this sin, and give us the life, the Salvation of His promise...if this is our heart...he will in no wise cast out anyone who believes on the Son of God and asks...We know if we really believe we are or were lost...or if we don't...we know if we really believe Christ or not...and we know if our heart has felt any guilt or conviction to turn away from the sin we have been captivated by and turn to Jesus who is our access to God.If this is all very true in our heart and we feel we did really ask Jesus to save us....we do receive by faith...his Word, His promise...this gift of eternal life....His spirit bears witness in us that we are now His...Have we confessed our Salvation to anyone? "with the heart we believe...with the mouth confession is made unto Salvation"....I was told I had to get up in church and confess my Salvation...I don't think I had to do this in church or that work is part of Salvation...but there is something about confession..."If you confess me before men I will confess you before the Father." It does something....But personally I prayed and i mean I had so much conviction that I pleaded with crying...."until" and I say until....I knew! And I knew...while as like Jacob, I would not let go until I knew....a feeling came over me or perhaps I heard very quiet words that said...It's ok..you can get up now (from praying)...and when I got up...all that heavy worry...conviction was gone and I felt the peace that God says is not of this world...complete peace....and I knew.make your election sure...work out our own Salvation with trmbling and fear...the witness we will find is inside our own heart...and we can know...and you bet...satan will come along and try to make us doubt...and he did me, and God spoke softly to my heart...."confusion is not God"....and I departed from the confusion and peace returned...or...I stopped listening to what was confusing me...but clung to the Truth I knew...that we are saved by Grace...through faith...not by any deeds, but by a true surrender to Christ... With hope that we will know the witness of God in our own heart...siskim
     
  5. lastsecman

    lastsecman New Member

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    The question might be....Are God's disciples a group of 'not-sure' and 'can't-make-up-my-mind' peopleOrAre God's disciples a group of assured people
     
  6. stlizzy

    stlizzy New Member

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    (Siskim;38618)
    It is kinda tough I think with people who feel this way...my input is this...to ask ourself or someone else Why they asked God to save them...and what He saved them from...There may be a million reasons in Grace to choose God, but the Law provides one...the Law which "perfectly converts the soul"....we are saved because we knew that we were doomed...completely covered in sin with no way to free ourself from it...we knew we were on the march to hell without God...with no hope... the Law completely condemns us...we cannot in any way fully measure up to it....it was given for this purpose...to show man his sin and hopelessness....If we choose God for any other reason, we may be like the seed than fell on stony ground...when the cares of this life or persecution arise we blow away....Someone said there is a no-follow up Salvation....which means...if we really know what we are saved from then we really know that not a thing in this entire world matters more than this Great Salvation...If we realize that we are or were a doomed sinner...and did or do believe that Christ did die for our sins and to reedeem us from the wages of sin...and we did or do ask Him...to save us, to forgive us of all this sin, and give us the life, the Salvation of His promise...if this is our heart...he will in no wise cast out anyone who believes on the Son of God and asks...We know if we really believe we are or were lost...or if we don't...we know if we really believe Christ or not...and we know if our heart has felt any guilt or conviction to turn away from the sin we have been captivated by and turn to Jesus who is our access to God.If this is all very true in our heart and we feel we did really ask Jesus to save us....we do receive by faith...his Word, His promise...this gift of eternal life....His spirit bears witness in us that we are now His...Have we confessed our Salvation to anyone? "with the heart we believe...with the mouth confession is made unto Salvation"....I was told I had to get up in church and confess my Salvation...I don't think I had to do this in church or that work is part of Salvation...but there is something about confession..."If you confess me before men I will confess you before the Father." It does something....But personally I prayed and i mean I had so much conviction that I pleaded with crying...."until" and I say until....I knew! And I knew...while as like Jacob, I would not let go until I knew....a feeling came over me or perhaps I heard very quiet words that said...It's ok..you can get up now (from praying)...and when I got up...all that heavy worry...conviction was gone and I felt the peace that God says is not of this world...complete peace....and I knew.make your election sure...work out our own Salvation with trmbling and fear...the witness we will find is inside our own heart...and we can know...and you bet...satan will come along and try to make us doubt...and he did me, and God spoke softly to my heart...."confusion is not God"....and I departed from the confusion and peace returned...or...I stopped listening to what was confusing me...but clung to the Truth I knew...that we are saved by Grace...through faith...not by any deeds, but by a true surrender to Christ... With hope that we will know the witness of God in our own heart...siskim
    Yes, you are right. Confusion is not God. He will be my rock and my strength when I doubt. It's He who helps my every step to walk ahead and not fall behind. It is God who is always true to His word and always Just. So we must cling to Truth and not to doubt or wayward feelings that lead us astray. For what is there that can be better than Christ Himself? What can the world or anyone in it offer me that is better than our Holy Father? So I will cry out to God to guide me and keep my humbly at His feet, so that I will know that it is not of my own that I am saved, and that even Faith is a "pearl of great price" from the Father. Oh, how I love the Father and want so much to do His will and please Him- and that's all I have to do- is to walk humbly with Him and He will show me the way! Siskism, good post. God has used you to help me today and I thank God for you.All Praise be to God!
     
  7. Dunamite

    Dunamite New Member

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    Faith is a curious thing. It is simple, yet people complicate it. They want to add to what Jesus has done. They want us to believe that we can make ourselves acceptable to God on our terms.They use a false standard and this only muddies the waters and perhaps endangers their salvation. They think that they have to do something better or in a certain way when in fact it isn't about doing anything and in fact it isn't even about us. Jesus has done all of the work. All we need to do is to receive what he has done.However, just calling ourselves Christian does not make us one. Jesus said,
    Matthew 7: 21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'​
    This appears to add confusion, but if you read the previous passages you will see that Jesus is talking about putting faith into action be loving others and taking care of the poor and needy.Our faith then cannot save us if it is false. We need to not only speak the words, but live them. It isn't the words or the actions that save us. when we genuinely believe then we act differently towards God and others. It is something that just happens. James says a similar thing,
    James 2: 14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. ​
    There is a synergy that exists between faith and action. When we believe we act. If we don't act then we do not truly believe. It isn't the action or deeds that save us. They merely mirror our faith.John sees the same thing when he says,
    1 John 3; 16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. 17 If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? 18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.
    Notice in all three instances the emphasis on action. Love is a verb. It is action. When we love God we act in obedience and we love him and others as God loves us.This is not written to add confusion. John tells us that we can be confident if we have God's love in us. All of 1 John talks about what it means to be an authentic Christian and gives the signs and tells us how to distinguish real from counterfeit. James has a similar theme.What distinguishes Christians is love. Love for God and love for others. It isn't just talking about love but acting loving. Words can lie. People can lie to themselves, but God can't be fooled. That is why Jesus said he will denounce people who call him Lord. They never really understood the message. Their works were meant to impress and were selfish in nature. Christian love is selfless.We can't know for absolute certain, but we can be confident if we truly love God with all of our hearts and minds and love others more than we love ourselves. These things should not only show themselves in our words, but they should be mirrored in every aspect of our lives.There is faith that is insufficient. It is superficial and self centered. It is based on the lie of "what is in it for me?" We don't become Christians out of fear of what will happen if we don't believe or because there is reward in it. We become Christian because we love God and it is this simple truth that makes all else possible. It puts God first, others second and us last. It is the way God designed the universe.The truth is so simple and so wonderful that it escapes many people. For most people Christianity is just an extension of their busy lives, an add-on, a mere blip and then they go on as before, unchanged and unimpacted. They are in for a rude awakening. God does not want to share the spotlight with anyone else or anything else. For the authentic Christian, knowing God changes everything. It sets everything to right. It puts things in the right perspective and we cannot help but change. It is a life altering experience to be in a relationship with the great majestic God who made the universe. He becomes glorified in everything we say or do. He is our reason for being. Nothing else matters to us and so God never has to share the spotlight.When you look at society at large or even the church, you have to be worried for people. They may say they have God, but he is shared so many ways. He is just a small part of their existence. They cannot be Christian or they would not want to him to compete for their attention.
     
  8. Catholic Crusader

    Catholic Crusader New Member

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    Some people promote a very attractive idea: All true Christians, regardless of how they live, have an absolute assurance of salvation, once they accept Jesus into their hearts as "their personal Lord and Savior." The problem is that this belief is contrary to the Bible & constant Christian teaching. Recall this Scripture: "If we have died with him [in baptism; see Rom. 6:3-4] we shall also live with him; if we persevere we shall also reign with him" (2 Tim. 2:11-12). So, ff we do NOT persevere, we shall NOT reign with him. In other words, Christians can forfeit heaven. Jesus tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31-46). Ergo, if you do not endure to the end, well........The Bible makes it clear that Christians have a moral assurance of salvation (God will be true to his word and will grant salvation to those who have faith in Christ and are obedient to him [1 John 3:19-24]), but the Bible does NOT teach that Christians have a guarantee of heaven. There can be no absolute assurance of salvation. The Bible says, "See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness, otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22-23; Matt. 18:21-35, 1 Cor. 15:1-2, 2 Pet. 2:20-21). Note that this includes an important condition: "provided you remain in his kindness." It is saying that Christians can lose their salvation by throwing it away. He warns, "Whoever thinks he is standing secure should take care not to fall" (1 Cor. 10:11-12). , Paul admitted that even he could fall away: "I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:27). In saying this he points out that even he cannot be infallibly sure of his own present state or of his future salvation.As a Catholic, when someone asks me if I have been "saved," I answer: "I am redeemed by the blood of Christ, I trust in him alone for my salvation, and, as the Bible teaches, I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), knowing that it is God's gift of grace that is working in me."
     
  9. thisistheendtimes

    thisistheendtimes New Member

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    What Jesus did on the cross was completely sufficient that every person on earth have salvation available to them (Luke 3:6), but not all flesh is alike (1 Corinthians 15:39). Some people will simply come to The Lord out of hunger, but not drink of His spirit (Revelation 7:16). There are better things that belong to salvation (Hebrews 6:9) such as a purified conscience when learning from God's eternal spirit (Hebrews 9:14) and being able to hear His voice (John 10:27) so that you can "live by" His true word (Ephesians 6:17) and He can be everything to you (1 Corinthians 15:28) so that you have a truly personal relationship with Him (1 Corinthians 15:28, with all of your idiosyncracies, habits, etc.) so that your love is made perfect (1 John 4:18). The fear of God is only the beginning of wisdom (unbelievers should fear not having God in their life) and is a teaching of MAN (Isaiah 29:13). Scripture is the introductory doctrine of Jesus (Hebrews 6:1) and the "word of truth" (Ephesians 1:13, 2 Timothy 2:15, John 14:6) that all "babes in Christ" must learn for self discipline, etc. because they still think in fleshly ways, but we must mature in Christ to learn the "depths of God (1 Corinthians 2:10).All verses are from the RSV (some may be more difficult to understand in KJV).All verses are from the RSV (some will be difficult to understand in KJV).Many people will say "I don't know if I would have the faith to do what Job did", but true Godly Christianity is not about faith, the book of Job is a LOVE story, that's how he stayed true to God after all he endured. Faith can falter, but love never fails. I have faith in the laws of physics also, but I don't love them. TRUE Christianity is a LOVE ("the GREATEST OF THESE", 1 Corinthians 13:13), God is LOVE. We should not walk by faith, we should "walk by the spirit" (Galatians 5:16 and 25) and live under the law of liberty (James 1:25 and 2:12) because the law of Ten Commandments and the law of ordinances ('commands' in the N.T.) were abolished on the cross (and without those 'laws of sin', sin lies dead (Romans 7:8).There should be NO self abasement (Colossians 2:18 and 23) so that you can have a PERSONal relationship and SELF discipline to establish a CONSCIENCE "in my inmost SELF" (Romans 7:22). Self abasement is a very bad teaching that the god of confusion has inflicted on humanity and it causes 'The identity crisis of Christianity and a strong delusion (2 Thessalonians chap. 2 and Ezekiel 14:4-8). Being saddened (low of spirit) by all of the corruption, hatred/resentment, cheating, suffering of this world, the PRESENT heaven should be in a Christian's heart (Matthew 5:3) along with the "rivers of living water" (John 7:38) that were mixed with Christ's blood at the cross (drink of them). The strong delusion has always existed along with the stumbling block of one's own heart. Keep your humility genuine, it is the requirement and maintenance of wisdom.God bless you.
     
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