How The Devil/Satan Deceiveth The Whole World

[bro.tan]

Dear bro.tan,

The blood of Christ covers all our sins. To stay covered by Christ's blood, we only have to remain faithful - and to remain faithful, Christ must convert us into a child of God. It is His spiritual work which converts us. We contribute nothing. We are His workmanship. After we are converted, we will enter into the rest of Christ and will never fall from grace again.

Also, faith is believing and trusting what Christ has said He will do in scripture.

If you contribute nothing, then how do you expect to get something. It’s starts off with repentance, that’s one of the first thing Jesus says when he got started in his ministry, Jesus says in Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


Now, Paul concerning the unchangeable Royal Law of God. In (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. And you thought love was kissing and hugging and rolling around in bed. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor. If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. This is God’s definition of love and it is perfect in its ways. So if you say that you know God, but you don’t keep his commandments, let's see what the Lord had specially written for you. (See exodus 20: 1-17). (1John 2:3-4) (v.3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (v.4) he that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Do you believe these verses below?

Yes.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1Cor 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection from the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

2Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, that will he do.

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Do you believe that Christ will have His desire of saving 100% of mankind?

The Bible talks about a lake of Fire in (Rev. 20:12-13) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Who are you allowing to teach you that you need not work to serve the Lord of this bible? (v.13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and dead and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Don’t allow anyone to deceive you! You will be judged according to your works.

Not looking good for all of mankind.

If you don't believe these verses, your faith is lacking and you are not converted. You are still under the Law and not under Grace. It is not your fault to be lacking because mankind has no ability to remain faithful until AFTER Christ converts us. We don't even have the ability to decide when we will be saved. It is all up to Christ. Christ is the Savior and He is the ONLY one who can do the work of saving us.

As for keeping the commandants of God, we will do so only after we are converted. Conversion includes having our carnality completely destroyed by judgment so that we can walk by the Spirit. After we are converted, we will love God and love our neighbors. By doing this, we are keeping the commandants of God.

Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

The remainder of the Law, which is not fulfilled by love, was fulfilled by the work of Christ at the cross. These commands of the Law are no longer necessary for us to follow.

Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

When a believer thinks that they must do "works" (even just one) to earn their salvation or to maintain their salvation, they have fallen from grace and have become a debtor to keeping the whole Law which they will not be able to do. They will then die in their sins.

You said:
Again Paul says in (Heb. 3:14) For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end; You must believe in what you are doing that’s what faith is, you most be confident unto the end. You must keep God’s law until death or until the coming of the Lord, if you expect salvation.

Paul is talking about holding steadfast in our faith of trusting and believing Christ. When we do, we are "in Christ" (partakers of Christ) and are covered by His blood for any and all sins that we may ever do in this life. This will only happen after Christ converts us. Then, as we are judged, Christ will "increase" within us and our Old Man will "decrease".

John the Baptist is a "type" for the Old Man and he made this statement:

John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

When you say that we must keep God's Law to expect salvation, you are wrong. We can only keep God's Law after we have salvation and have been converted. Only then can we keep God's Law in the way Paul said: "love is the fulfilling of the law".

With your beliefs, you have no certainty of salvation because your salvation is dependent upon your own efforts of keeping the Law. You have fallen from grace and remain under the Law.

For a believer who has come under the New Covenant, they have complete certainty of salvation because they know that their salvation is only dependent upon the works of Christ who cannot fail. When a believer has this type of faith, they have entered into Christ's rest.

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

If you contribute nothing, then how do you expect to get something. It’s starts off with repentance, that’s one of the first thing Jesus says when he got started in his ministry, Jesus says in Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Not looking good for all of mankind.

Dear bro.tan,
You said:
If you contribute nothing, then how do you expect to get something. It’s starts off with repentance, that’s one of the first thing Jesus says when he got started in his ministry, Jesus says in Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

If we contribute anything, it is a "work" which will bring a believer back under the Law of the Old Covenant. Also, our salvation is a FREE GIFT from God. We do not have to earn it. If we have to do anything to receive it, it would not be free.

Your beliefs in "works" is what mankind's carnal nature prefers. It believes the Old Wine is better than the New Wine:

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, the old is better.

The Old Wine represents the Old Covenant of Law which is based on the works of man. Since no man can keep the Law, the Law will condemn them. But because mankind's carnal nature believes that we can contribute to our own salvation, mankind will mix their own works with faith. This is what you are doing and this is what Christ meant when He said you can't serve two masters. Satan is the master of the crooked way of works. Christ is the master of the straight way of faith. When a believer mixes works with faith, they fall from grace and lose their salvation.

You said:
And you thought love was kissing and hugging and rolling around in bed. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

I have never said any such thing about "love". A person cannot be loving their neighbor if they are stealing from him or coveting their neighbor's wife.

After a believer is converted, they will start being led by the Spirit more and more (John 3:30 He must increase and I must decrease) until the day comes when Christ has finished His work and the person will never sin again. Conversion changes a person from being led by their carnal nature to being lead by the new spiritual nature the Holy Spirit gives them. It is mankind's carnal spiritual nature which is the cause of our sinfulness. For that reason, Christ will destroy mankind's carnal spiritual nature by His judgment. He will then replace it with a new spiritual nature which will not sin.

This is what this verse is teaching:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

When a believer is led by the Spirit, following these commandments of love will come naturally. This is how Christ causes a believer to keep God's commandments. It is Christ's work to accomplish within a person and not our own. For that reason, Christ will convert all mankind from the old carnal vessel which sins frequently into a new spiritually perfect vessel which will never sin. And Christ will do His spiritual work without mankind asking Him to do it and without mankind's permission.

Christ is mankind's God and creator and He will do as He pleases within the hearts and minds of mankind.

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, that will he do.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Christ is always in control of mankind. He reigns supreme within mankind spiritually. Nothing in this creation happens by chance or by mankind's supposed "free will". Christ is always directing and guiding mankind to comply with God's "will", plan and purpose for us.

This truth is what these verses below teach:

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Because Christ is always in full control of each and every person, He could save every person today if He chose to do it. He could give everyone the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit and destroy their carnality. However, in this present age, He is only converting those people who were chosen by God from the foundation of the earth. They were chosen solely because it suited God's plan and purpose for this creation. These people are considered to be blessed by God and are called the Elect.

Do you think that God loves the rest of mankind any less than He loves the Elect?

Christ loves all mankind equally and He will make us all into a new vessel at the time of His choosing.

The rest of mankind will be resurrected from the grave and cast into the Lake of Fire to be judged by the Law. The Law says that every soul who has sinned must die. The Elect died in the Lake of Fire (Revelation chapter 19) and so will the rest of mankind. However, before anyone perishes from their judgment, Christ will have mercy upon them:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law; justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Christ's will never omit the weightier matters of the law which includes justice, mercy and faith. Before a person perishes by the Law, He will pour out the Holy Spirit upon the person (it is a free gift) and give them a new birth. The new child of God will then be gathered to heaven with Christ. The old vessel will continue its judgment in the Lake of Fire until it is destroyed. This satisfies the law and provides justice.

Then verses like these (which you do not believe will ever happen) will be testified to be true:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

By the end of the final age, all mankind will be made into a child of God. It happens not because of mankind's "will" or because of mankind's ability to follow the Law, it happens solely because of the "will" and works" of Christ which will make it happen.

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1Cor 13:8 Love never fails;

Do really believe that Christ will fail in the mission His Father gave Him to save the world? If you do, you do not know Christ or His power to accomplish all that He has said He will do. Where is your faith to believe God's Word?

You said:
Not looking good for all of mankind.

Mankind could not be in better hands that those of Christ.

The scriptures I presented above teach the true Good News of Christ which you should be proclaiming to the world.

However, you are proclaiming Satan's "another gospel" to the world. That gospel blasphemes the name of Christ and makes Him out to be mankind's worst nightmare. This is not the Christ I know and love.

Note: I will be travelling over the next couple of days and won't be able to post on the forum until I get back.

Joe

 

[bro.tan]

Dear bro.tan,
You said:
If you contribute nothing, then how do you expect to get something. It’s starts off with repentance, that’s one of the first thing Jesus says when he got started in his ministry, Jesus says in Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

If we contribute anything, it is a "work" which will bring a believer back under the Law of the Old Covenant. Also, our salvation is a FREE GIFT from God. We do not have to earn it. If we have to do anything to receive it, it would not be free.

Your beliefs in "works" is what mankind's carnal nature prefers. It believes the Old Wine is better than the New Wine:

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, the old is better.

That verse is a parable talking about fasting, it have nothing to do with not keeping the commandments of God. The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).

The Old Wine represents the Old Covenant of Law which is based on the works of man. Since no man can keep the Law, the Law will condemn them. But because mankind's carnal nature believes that we can contribute to our own salvation, mankind will mix their own works with faith. This is what you are doing and this is what Christ meant when He said you can't serve two masters. Satan is the master of the crooked way of works. Christ is the master of the straight way of faith. When a believer mixes works with faith, they fall from grace and lose their salvation.

You said:
And you thought love was kissing and hugging and rolling around in bed. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

I have never said any such thing about "love". A person cannot be loving their neighbor if they are stealing from him or coveting their neighbor's wife.

After a believer is converted, they will start being led by the Spirit more and more (John 3:30 He must increase and I must decrease) until the day comes when Christ has finished His work and the person will never sin again. Conversion changes a person from being led by their carnal nature to being lead by the new spiritual nature the Holy Spirit gives them. It is mankind's carnal spiritual nature which is the cause of our sinfulness. For that reason, Christ will destroy mankind's carnal spiritual nature by His judgment. He will then replace it with a new spiritual nature which will not sin.

Paul says in (Heb. 6:4-6) (v.4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (v.5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, (v.6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. You mean that you can be enlightened, be partakers of the Holy Ghost, taste the good word of God and still it’s possible for you to fall away. Just as you choose to serve God of you own free will you can by that same free will decide to stop serving God. You are what is called a free agent, the choice is yours.

This is what this verse is teaching:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

When a believer is led by the Spirit, following these commandments of love will come naturally. This is how Christ causes a believer to keep God's commandments. It is Christ's work to accomplish within a person and not our own. For that reason, Christ will convert all mankind from the old carnal vessel which sins frequently into a new spiritually perfect vessel which will never sin. And Christ will do His spiritual work without mankind asking Him to do it and without mankind's permission.

Christ is mankind's God and creator and He will do as He pleases within the hearts and minds of mankind.

Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, that will he do.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Christ is always in control of mankind. He reigns supreme within mankind spiritually. Nothing in this creation happens by chance or by mankind's supposed "free will". Christ is always directing and guiding mankind to comply with God's "will", plan and purpose for us.

This truth is what these verses below teach:
Do you think that God loves the rest of mankind any less than He loves the Elect?
Christ loves all mankind equally and He will make us all into a new vessel at the time of His choosing.

The rest of mankind will be resurrected from the grave and cast into the Lake of Fire to be judged by the Law. The Law says that every soul who has sinned must die. The Elect died in the Lake of Fire (Revelation chapter 19) and so will the rest of mankind. However, before anyone perishes from their judgment, Christ will have mercy upon them:

Let's go into Matthew 24: 21 for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. I'm not sure what book you reading from, but it doesn't look like the Bible, the elect is the ones saving the rest of the people.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law; justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Christ's will never omit the weightier matters of the law which includes justice, mercy and faith. Before a person perishes by the Law, He will pour out the Holy Spirit upon the person (it is a free gift) and give them a new birth. The new child of God will then be gathered to heaven with Christ. The old vessel will continue its judgment in the Lake of Fire until it is destroyed. This satisfies the law and provides justice.

Then verses like these (which you do not believe will ever happen) will be testified to be true:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

By the end of the final age, all mankind will be made into a child of God. It happens not because of mankind's "will" or because of mankind's ability to follow the Law, it happens solely because of the "will" and works" of Christ which will make it happen.

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1Cor 13:8 Love never fails;

Do really believe that Christ will fail in the mission His Father gave Him to save the world? If you do, you do not know Christ or His power to accomplish all that He has said He will do. Where is your faith to believe God's Word?

You said:
Not looking good for all of mankind.

Mankind could not be in better hands that those of Christ.

The scriptures I presented above teach the true Good News of Christ which you should be proclaiming to the world.

However, you are proclaiming Satan's "another gospel" to the world. That gospel blasphemes the name of Christ and makes Him out to be mankind's worst nightmare. This is not the Christ I know and love.

Naw, I'm proclaiming Jesus, and this is what I do here so I know him in (1John 2:3-4) (v.3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (v.4) he that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him. Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord.

 

[bro.tan]

The sun was the main god of the heathen even back as far as ancient Babylon. Since they worshiped the sun on Sunday, the compromising church leaders could see that if they changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, it would accomplish several things. Number one - it would separate them from the Jews who were hated by many of the Romans and who, along with Jesus, And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. (Luke 4:16), had been worshiping on Saturday from the beginning (and still do today). Number two - it would make it much easier for the pagans to come into the church if the Christians met on the same day that the pagan world did.

It worked well. Pagans flocked in by the thousands. Satan's plan of compromise was doing its baleful work. The change was attempted gradually but many of the true hearted, loyal Christians were alarmed. They came to the leaders and wanted to know why they had dared tamper with the law of Almighty God! The church leaders knew this would happen - and they had an answer ready. It's a masterpiece. If a person doesn't know the bible well it sounds good.

The people were told that they were worshiping on Sunday now because Jesus rose from the dead on that day.

There's not even one verse in the Bible that tells us to do this, but that's what they were told. Isn't it amazing! Maybe you've even heard that yourself!

When Emperor Constantine became a Christian, Christianity became the state religion you remember. As thousands of sun-worshipers flocked into the church, it wasn't long before they had a dominating influence. Most of his top officials had been sun-worshipers. Because the Roman government was getting shaky, Constantine consulted with his aides and with the church officials in Rome.

"What shall we do? How can we unite and stabilize the government?"

The counsel of the church leaders was timely.

"Pass a Sunday law. Force everyone to cease work and honor Sunday."

That was it! It would satisfy the sun-worshiping pagans, and unite pagans, Christians, and the Roman empire as never before.

The year is 321 A.D. Constantine, yielding to the suggestion of church leaders passes the first Sunday law! Here it is, straight out of the record:

"Let all the judges and town people, and the occupation of all trades rest on the venerable day of the sun" Edict of March 7, 321 A.D. Corpus Juris Civilis Cod., lib. 3, tit. 12, Lex. 3.

The Christians who would not compromise and dishonor God found themselves in a dilemma. Satan had worked things around so that you were forced to honor the pagan "day of the sun" or pay the penalty. Even after the Emperor's Sunday law, many Christians continued to honor and keep holy the seventh-day Sabbath that their Saviour had kept. God knew what was going on and had predicted that the man of sin would "think to change times and laws." Satan was about to pull off a world-wide hoax.

Bibles were forbidden by the priests. As the years went by, the new generations (without Bibles) would forget all about the Sabbath of the Lord.

Not only that - from time to time, great church councils were held. In nearly every one, the Sabbath which God had given as a memorial of His creation of the world was pressed down and Sunday was exalted. The pagan festival finally came to be regarded as the "Lord's day" (by Pope Sylvester, 314-337 A.D.) and the church leaders pronounced the Bible Sabbath a relic of the Jews, and those who honored it, in obedience to the fourth commandment of God, were pronounced to be "accursed."

To rip out the commandment right in the center, put in Sun- day worship as a counterfeit, take the Bibles away, and command the whole world to accept it - this was the king of all swindles!

 

[FaithWillDo]

To rip out the commandment right in the center, put in Sun- day worship as a counterfeit, take the Bibles away, and command the whole world to accept it - this was the king of all swindles!

Dear bro.tan,
I have explained with scripture over and over again the truth of Christ and His New Covenant but yet you still believe in mankind's "free will" and mankind's need to contribute their own "works" for salvation. Your beliefs come from a carnal and works based belief system that will be destroyed by Christ someday within all mankind. He will do His saving work at a time of His own choosing and only then will the person go from being carnal to being spiritual.

Your beliefs are founded upon the Old Covenant of Law and they will keep a believer in bondage to sin. Mankind's salvation comes solely by faith in Christ. That faith rests in the knowledge that Christ will do all the work necessary for a person's salvation. A New Covenant believer has no works to perform for their salvation. After a person is saved, Christ will cause the new child of God to have works of faith. These works of faith are the evidence of the person's salvation. These works do not save them nor do they help maintain their salvation.

As for your comments on Saturday/Sunday worship, scripture says that we should worship in Spirit and in truth. This is type of worship happens every day and every minute of the day.

When a person is converted, they enter into the rest of Christ and the Sabbath Day is spiritually fulfilled within them. The Sabbath Day was a law which "foreshadowed" the spiritual reality of what Christ will do within a person. Once a believer is converted, they will rest from their own works.

Under the New Covenant, the physical observance of the Sabbath Day is no longer required. In fact, if a person observes the Sabbath Day, it shows that they are still carnal and under the Law. When a person is under the Law, they become a debtor to keeping the whole Law which cannot be done.

Rom 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

Gal 5:4 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

These verses could just as easily be talking about the Sabbath Day observance rather than circumcision. There is no difference between the two. Both were commanded under the Old Covenant and both have been spiritually fulfilled within a converted believer under the New Covenant. No longer does a believer under the New Covenant have to be physically circumcised or physically keep the Sabbath Day. They are both being spiritually "kept" continuously by the believer after they are converted.

Show me one New Testament scripture that says the Apostles or their Gentile churches ever kept the physical Sabbath Day. There are none.

Consider what this scripture teaches. It is quite profound and applies circumcision - but it also equally applies to physically keeping the Sabbath Day.

Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. 2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. 3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren. 4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Under the New Covenant, the physical observance of the Law of Moses as pertaining to circumcision and Sabbath Day keeping was ended. Those laws were fulfilled by Christ and they are fulfilled within us when we come under the New Covenant.

Your beliefs in free will and works are making Christ's sacrifice on the cross to be of no effect.

Consider what this warning teaches:

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works (works of repentance); or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Like all carnally minded unconverted believers, after first tasting the New Wine of the New Covenant, they will say that the Old Wine is better and they will return to it.

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

This verse describes what happens to all called out believers after they enter the church. They quickly turn to works because their carnal nature prefers works over faith alone. To be under the New Covenant, a believer must receive the Latter Rain and be converted. To be converted, the believer's carnal nature must be destroyed and replaced by the new spiritual nature the Holy Spirit gives them. Only then will be believer be "born again" and be saved.

You need to repent from your works and begin trusting Christ for your salvation. You need the Latter Rain and conversion.

Christ said that His Father is the giver of "good gifts" if you pray for them (Luke 11:9-13). I encourage you to pray for understanding and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Without those gifts, you will remain under the Old Covenant of Law.

Bro.tan, I see no need to keep restating the difference between "works" of the Law and "works" of faith under the New Covenant. The only solution is for you to repent of your works and pray for the Holy Spirit. Until you are converted, anything I may say to you will keep falling on deaf ears. Now would probably be a good time to end this discussion.

Joe

 

[bro.tan]

Dear bro.tan,
I have explained with scripture over and over again the truth of Christ and His New Covenant but yet you still believe in mankind's "free will" and mankind's need to contribute their own "works" for salvation. Your beliefs come from a carnal and works based belief system that will be destroyed by Christ someday within all mankind. He will do His saving work at a time of His own choosing and only then will the person go from being carnal to being spiritual.

Your beliefs are founded upon the Old Covenant of Law and they will keep a believer in bondage to sin. Mankind's salvation comes solely by faith in Christ. That faith rests in the knowledge that Christ will do all the work necessary for a person's salvation. A New Covenant believer has no works to perform for their salvation. After a person is saved, Christ will cause the new child of God to have works of faith. These works of faith are the evidence of the person's salvation. These works do not save them nor do they help maintain their salvation.

Paul told you to in (2Tim. 2:15) Study to shew thyself approved unto God, (not man) a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. You must rightfully divide the word of God, you must find out where every thing fits because fit it does.

As for your comments on Saturday/Sunday worship, scripture says that we should worship in Spirit and in truth. This is type of worship happens every day and every minute of the day.

When a person is converted, they enter into the rest of Christ and the Sabbath Day is spiritually fulfilled within them. The Sabbath Day was a law which "foreshadowed" the spiritual reality of what Christ will do within a person. Once a believer is converted, they will rest from their own works.

Under the New Covenant, the physical observance of the Sabbath Day is no longer required. In fact, if a person observes the Sabbath Day, it shows that they are still carnal and under the Law. When a person is under the Law, they become a debtor to keeping the whole Law which cannot be done.

Rom 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

Gal 5:4 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

These verses could just as easily be talking about the Sabbath Day observance rather than circumcision. There is no difference between the two. Both were commanded under the Old Covenant and both have been spiritually fulfilled within a converted believer under the New Covenant. No longer does a believer under the New Covenant have to be physically circumcised or physically keep the Sabbath Day. They are both being spiritually "kept" continuously by the believer after they are converted.

Show me one New Testament scripture that says the Apostles or their Gentile churches ever kept the physical Sabbath Day. There are none.

Consider what this scripture teaches. It is quite profound and applies circumcision - but it also equally applies to physically keeping the Sabbath Day.

Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. 2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. 3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren. 4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Under the New Covenant, the physical observance of the Law of Moses as pertaining to circumcision and Sabbath Day keeping was ended. Those laws were fulfilled by Christ and they are fulfilled within us when we come under the New Covenant.

Your beliefs in free will and works are making Christ's sacrifice on the cross to be of no effect.

Consider what this warning teaches:

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works (works of repentance); or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Like all carnally minded unconverted believers, after first tasting the New Wine of the New Covenant, they will say that the Old Wine is better and they will return to it.

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

This verse describes what happens to all called out believers after they enter the church. They quickly turn to works because their carnal nature prefers works over faith alone. To be under the New Covenant, a believer must receive the Latter Rain and be converted. To be converted, the believer's carnal nature must be destroyed and replaced by the new spiritual nature the Holy Spirit gives them. Only then will be believer be "born again" and be saved.

You need to repent from your works and begin trusting Christ for your salvation. You need the Latter Rain and conversion.

Paul said in (Gal. 6 (v.3) For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. (v.4) But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. The book says let every man prove his own work, and if your work is good then you will rejoice in it. (v.5) For every man shall bear his own burden. That’s right; every man must bear his own burden. You mean you thought that all you had to do was confess the name of Jesus and that was it? Brothers and sisters you must work to get salvation. (v.7) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. God is not to be played with. Whatsoever you plant, that’s what you are going to reap. Be it good works unto eternal life, or evil works unto eternal damnation. The choice is yours, and your works belong to you.

Christ said that His Father is the giver of "good gifts" if you pray for them (Luke 11:9-13). I encourage you to pray for understanding and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Without those gifts, you will remain under the Old Covenant of Law.

Bro.tan, I see no need to keep restating the difference between "works" of the Law and "works" of faith under the New Covenant. The only solution is for you to repent of your works and pray for the Holy Spirit. Until you are converted, anything I may say to you will keep falling on deaf ears. Now would probably be a good time to end this discussion.

Joe

 

[bro.tan]

Keep in mind that our God is kind and fair. Those who are keeping Sunday and breaking God's fourth commandment ignorantly are not under condemnation. It's only those who know what God commands and willfully disobey who are committing sin. God's enemy knows that to break one of God's commandments is a sin which hurts our Saviour and robs us of eternal life with Him if not repented of.

Satan laid this plot so deep that even many ministers are not aware of it. Many religious leaders are putting forth desperate efforts to keep the facts on this subject away from the people. Shocking but true, many ministers have not learned at school anything different than their teachers have learned before them. Then they teach their congregations what they learned from their teachers. It is perpetuated for generations. This is why even your own parents or grandparents may not have understood what God's word teaches about His seventh-day Sabbath. But when people honestly study the Bible for themselves - their eyes are opened. Many people take the preacher's word and just don't study God's word for themselves.

The Biblical Sabbath, however, is and has always been on the seventh day of the week, or Saturday. Despite the prevalence of Sunday worship in Christendom, we must look to the Bible as our authority and keep the seventh day Sabbath ordained by God. Now go into your history books and prove me wrong, I challenge you to do so.

So sisters and brothers read your bible for yourself and pray for understanding. Don’t let some unlearned or false preacher deceive you. The Sabbath of the Lord has, and will always be the seventh day of the week (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday) and has not been changed.

Remember Paul said; (Acts 24:14) “But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:” And it says clearly in the law (Ex:20) to remember the sabbath, to keep it holy.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Keep in mind that our God is kind and fair. Those who are keeping Sunday and breaking God's fourth commandment ignorantly are not under condemnation. It's only those who know what God commands and willfully disobey who are committing sin. God's enemy knows that to break one of God's commandments is a sin which hurts our Saviour and robs us of eternal life with Him if not repented of.

Satan laid this plot so deep that even many ministers are not aware of it. Many religious leaders are putting forth desperate efforts to keep the facts on this subject away from the people. Shocking but true, many ministers have not learned at school anything different than their teachers have learned before them. Then they teach their congregations what they learned from their teachers. It is perpetuated for generations. This is why even your own parents or grandparents may not have understood what God's word teaches about His seventh-day Sabbath. But when people honestly study the Bible for themselves - their eyes are opened. Many people take the preacher's word and just don't study God's word for themselves.

The Biblical Sabbath, however, is and has always been on the seventh day of the week, or Saturday. Despite the prevalence of Sunday worship in Christendom, we must look to the Bible as our authority and keep the seventh day Sabbath ordained by God. Now go into your history books and prove me wrong, I challenge you to do so.

So sisters and brothers read your bible for yourself and pray for understanding. Don’t let some unlearned or false preacher deceive you. The Sabbath of the Lord has, and will always be the seventh day of the week (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday) and has not been changed.

Remember Paul said; (Acts 24:14) “But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:” And it says clearly in the law (Ex:20) to remember the sabbath, to keep it holy.

Dear bro.tan,
A converted believer keeps the Sabbath Day holy when they enter into the "rest" of Christ.

These verses below are teaching about the spiritual fulfillment of the Sabbath Day:

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

You have not entered into the "rest" of Christ. Your beliefs on how to honor the Sabbath Day are physical and carnal. These beliefs are keeping you captive to sin and under the Law.

But we who are "in Christ" honor the Sabbath Day by resting from our labors just "as God did from His".

I have already responded many times to your arguments and you have rejected my responses. There really is no sense in continuing this discussion.

Joe

 

[bro.tan]

Dear bro.tan,
A converted believer keeps the Sabbath Day holy when they enter into the "rest" of Christ.

These verses below are teaching about the spiritual fulfillment of the Sabbath Day:

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

This is rest is talking about the future, and you get in this rest by actually keeping the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week. But this is a lesson for another time.

You have not entered into the "rest" of Christ. Your beliefs on how to honor the Sabbath Day are physical and carnal. These beliefs are keeping you captive to sin and under the Law.

But we who are "in Christ" honor the Sabbath Day by resting from our labors just "as God did from His".

I have already responded many times to your arguments and you have rejected my responses. There really is no sense in continuing this discussion.

Joe

Jesus made it clear that the seventh day was made for mankind. (Mark 2:27-28) (v.27) And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: Do we understand that, the Sabbath was made for us, not us for the Sabbath. (v.28) Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath. The Son of man (Jesus) is the Lord God of the seventh day Sabbath (Saturday). In (Ex.31:16-17) (v.16) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. (v.17) It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

You see that the Sabbath day is a sign between God and His people forever. Israel was and still His people then and whoever chooses to obey Him now are His people. God intended for the weekly Sabbath (this word means rest in Hebrew) to be a refreshing blessing for mankind. God knew that human beings would need periodic rest and change from work. But the purpose for keeping God's Sabbath goes far beyond simply resting on that day.

Let’s take a look and see what Jesus did when he came in the flesh, And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. (Luke 4:14-16)

The Apostle Paul understood this he knew and kept Gods law including the seventh day sabbath.
Now lets take a look at; (Acts 13:13-15, 42, 44) (v.13) Now when Paul and his company loosed from Pa’-phus, they came to Per’-ga in Pam-phyl’-I-a: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem. (v.14) But when they departed from Per’-ga, they came to An’-ti-och in Pi-sid’-I-a, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. Paul went into the church (synagogue) on the sabbath day the seventh day not the first day (Sunday). (v.15) And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. (v.42) And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

You see how the word of God is consistence from Old to New Testament. The Gentiles didn’t asked Paul to come preach us something different next Sunday. They wanted Paul to preach to them the same thing that he taught the Jews, the next sabbath. Even the Gentiles knew that if they were going to serve the same God that Paul and the Jews (Israelites) served that they would have to serve him on the day that God had set up. (v.42) And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. Not the next Sunday but the next sabbath.

 

[FaithWillDo]

This is rest is talking about the future, and you get in this rest by actually keeping the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week. But this is a lesson for another time.



Jesus made it clear that the seventh day was made for mankind. (Mark 2:27-28) (v.27) And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: Do we understand that, the Sabbath was made for us, not us for the Sabbath. (v.28) Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath. The Son of man (Jesus) is the Lord God of the seventh day Sabbath (Saturday). In (Ex.31:16-17) (v.16) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. (v.17) It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

You see that the Sabbath day is a sign between God and His people forever. Israel was and still His people then and whoever chooses to obey Him now are His people. God intended for the weekly Sabbath (this word means rest in Hebrew) to be a refreshing blessing for mankind. God knew that human beings would need periodic rest and change from work. But the purpose for keeping God's Sabbath goes far beyond simply resting on that day.

Let’s take a look and see what Jesus did when he came in the flesh, And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. (Luke 4:14-16)

The Apostle Paul understood this he knew and kept Gods law including the seventh day sabbath.
Now lets take a look at; (Acts 13:13-15, 42, 44) (v.13) Now when Paul and his company loosed from Pa’-phus, they came to Per’-ga in Pam-phyl’-I-a: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem. (v.14) But when they departed from Per’-ga, they came to An’-ti-och in Pi-sid’-I-a, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. Paul went into the church (synagogue) on the sabbath day the seventh day not the first day (Sunday). (v.15) And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. (v.42) And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

You see how the word of God is consistence from Old to New Testament. The Gentiles didn’t asked Paul to come preach us something different next Sunday. They wanted Paul to preach to them the same thing that he taught the Jews, the next sabbath. Even the Gentiles knew that if they were going to serve the same God that Paul and the Jews (Israelites) served that they would have to serve him on the day that God had set up. (v.42) And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. Not the next Sunday but the next sabbath.

Dear bro.tan,

Yes, the Sabbath Day was made for mankind but once a person has been "born again', they are no longer a part of mankind. They are a NEW creation and have become a child of God who dwells in heaven. Like I have been saying, once a person is "converted", they enter into the rest of Christ and the Sabbath Day is spiritually fulfilled.

And yes, the Sabbath Day is a sign between God and physical Israel under the Old Covenant but it is only for the ages (not forever). After physical Israel has been saved at the end of the ages, they will become a new creation and will keep the Sabbath Day spiritually just as the converted Elect are doing in this age.

As for the verses you quoted from Acts, it is not teaching that the church should physically keep the Sabbath Day. No where in scripture does Paul ever say that he and the churches are physically keeping the Sabbath Day as the Jews do.

If physically keeping the Sabbath Day is vital to following the commandments of Christ, why did Paul NEVER command his churches to keep it?

But Paul did explain how the Sabbath Day is kept under the New Covenant. He taught it in Hebrews chapter 6 which I quoted in my last post. A converted believer keeps the Sabbath Day when they enter into the rest of Christ. Physically keeping the Sabbath Day is no longer necessary. In fact, if a believer practices physically keeping the Sabbath Day, they will remain under the Law and will become a debtor to keeping the whole Law. In other words, they are NOT under the New Covenant. When this believer is resurrected from the grave, they will be cast into the Lake of Fire to be judged by the Law that they couldn't help but break. This is the destination for everyone who is not under the New Covenant.

To be under the New Covenant, Christ must convert us. Only then will we no longer be under the Law because the Law was fulfilled by Christ:

Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Since the Law of the Old Covenant was not abolished by Christ, it still applies to mankind. And because it does, mankind will be judged by the Law. Under the Law, the penalty for sin is DEATH (not the false teaching of hell). Since all mankind has sinned, all mankind is "already condemned" (John 3:18). The only hope for mankind is to be made into a new creation and become a child of God who has never sinned. The new child of God is not under the Law but under grace. The child of God fulfills the requirements of the Law simply by loving God and by loving their neighbor.

Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Can you see how "conversion" changes everything for mankind?

All mankind is under the Law and is going to perish by the Law. But after a person becomes a child of God, they are a new creation and are not under the Law. Everyone will make this transition because it happens by the "will" and work of Christ. Mankind cannot contribute anything toward their own salvation (conversion). When we try, we will fall from the grace of the New Covenant and will go back to being under the Law. This is where you are at in your walk - along with all the other churches in the world. Falling away happens to everyone shortly after they are called into the church. It is a part of the pathway to salvation which the Elect will travel.

To be converted, Christ must come to a person TWO TIMES. Christ will come to a person the first time when He gives them the Early Rain and calls them out from the world. This is when they enter the church. If the believer is also "chosen", Christ will come to them a second time with the Latter Rain. This is when a person is converted. If Christ does not come both times to an individual, they will be resurrected to judgement under the Law with the unbelievers. They will be cast into the Lake of Fire to perish. But before they perish, Christ will have mercy upon them and will convert them like He did for the Elect. After the last person is saved, Christ's reign will come to an end and God will be "all in all" (1Cor 15:20-28). This is God's purpose of creating mankind; to create new children. And He is not going to lose a single one.

God sent Christ to do the work of making it all happen.

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

It will take Christ two ages of time to draw all mankind to Him. Then it will be testified to be true that Christ is the Savior of the world.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Joe

 

[bro.tan]

Dear bro.tan,

Yes, the Sabbath Day was made for mankind but once a person has been "born again', they are no longer a part of mankind. They are a NEW creation and have become a child of God who dwells in heaven. Like I have been saying, once a person is "converted", they enter into the rest of Christ and the Sabbath Day is spiritually fulfilled.

And yes, the Sabbath Day is a sign between God and physical Israel under the Old Covenant but it is only for the ages (not forever). After physical Israel has been saved at the end of the ages, they will become a new creation and will keep the Sabbath Day spiritually just as the converted Elect are doing in this age.

As for the verses you quoted from Acts, it is not teaching that the church should physically keep the Sabbath Day. No where in scripture does Paul ever say that he and the churches are physically keeping the Sabbath Day as the Jews do.

If physically keeping the Sabbath Day is vital to following the commandments of Christ, why did Paul NEVER command his churches to keep it?

But Paul did explain how the Sabbath Day is kept under the New Covenant. He taught it in Hebrews chapter 6 which I quoted in my last post. A converted believer keeps the Sabbath Day when they enter into the rest of Christ. Physically keeping the Sabbath Day is no longer necessary. In fact, if a believer practices physically keeping the Sabbath Day, they will remain under the Law and will become a debtor to keeping the whole Law. In other words, they are NOT under the New Covenant. When this believer is resurrected from the grave, they will be cast into the Lake of Fire to be judged by the Law that they couldn't help but break. This is the destination for everyone who is not under the New Covenant.

To be under the New Covenant, Christ must convert us. Only then will we no longer be under the Law because the Law was fulfilled by Christ:

Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Since the Law of the Old Covenant was not abolished by Christ, it still applies to mankind. And because it does, mankind will be judged by the Law. Under the Law, the penalty for sin is DEATH (not the false teaching of hell). Since all mankind has sinned, all mankind is "already condemned" (John 3:18). The only hope for mankind is to be made into a new creation and become a child of God who has never sinned. The new child of God is not under the Law but under grace. The child of God fulfills the requirements of the Law simply by loving God and by loving their neighbor.

Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Can you see how "conversion" changes everything for mankind?

All mankind is under the Law and is going to perish by the Law. But after a person becomes a child of God, they are a new creation and are not under the Law. Everyone will make this transition because it happens by the "will" and work of Christ. Mankind cannot contribute anything toward their own salvation (conversion). When we try, we will fall from the grace of the New Covenant and will go back to being under the Law. This is where you are at in your walk - along with all the other churches in the world. Falling away happens to everyone shortly after they are called into the church. It is a part of the pathway to salvation which the Elect will travel.

To be converted, Christ must come to a person TWO TIMES. Christ will come to a person the first time when He gives them the Early Rain and calls them out from the world. This is when they enter the church. If the believer is also "chosen", Christ will come to them a second time with the Latter Rain. This is when a person is converted. If Christ does not come both times to an individual, they will be resurrected to judgement under the Law with the unbelievers. They will be cast into the Lake of Fire to perish. But before they perish, Christ will have mercy upon them and will convert them like He did for the Elect. After the last person is saved, Christ's reign will come to an end and God will be "all in all" (1Cor 15:20-28). This is God's purpose of creating mankind; to create new children. And He is not going to lose a single one.

God sent Christ to do the work of making it all happen.

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

It will take Christ two ages of time to draw all mankind to Him. Then it will be testified to be true that Christ is the Savior of the world.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Joe

You cherry pick the Bible, because there's no way you can ignore all I written, but you have. Are we to believe that God’s holy commandments are no longer to be kept in this world of modern Christianity? One of the most often quoted verses to try and do away with God’s Royal law comes from the writing of the Apostle Paul; (Rom. 6:14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace.

Now people will take this one verse and run with it, ignoring the writings of the others apostles and the prophets and the statements of even Jesus himself. Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5: 12) But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him. Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord. People are being taught that once you are quote “saved” that you can never fall to the spiritually lost condition. This is not true and totally unbiblical; this teaching is a damnable heresy brought in by man. To teach someone that all they have to do is believe on Christ and you are saved is a doctrine of the devil. Many who teach eternal security teach that once a man is saved no matter how wicked he becomes he is still saved.

 

[FaithWillDo]

You cherry pick the Bible.

Dear bro.tan,
You said:
You cherry pick the Bible, because there's no way you can ignore all I written, but you have.

This is one of the keys on how to study scripture:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Psa 119:160 The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures forever.

The truth is presented in scripture as "here a little, and there a little". Those pieces must be assembled to understand the whole truth of a subject. Then those pieces must start at the Milk of the Word and build up the truth from there. Scripture is very difficult to understand and it was written that way on purpose. One of the reasons is so that "called out" believers (who have only received the Early Rain and remain carnally minded) will not be able to understand the truth of God. When they cannot understand it, Satan will come and deceive the new believers so that they will "fall backward and be broken, and snared and taken".

For a believer to be able to understand what scripture teaches, they must have their spiritual blindness healed by Christ. Christ will do this when He gives an Elect believer the Latter Rain (Baptism of the Spirit). But even with "eyes that can see", a converted Elect believer must search and pray for the truth of God to be revealed to them. It takes a great amount of effort:

Prov 2:1 My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, 2 making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; 3 yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, 4 if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, 5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

Mat 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

To find the treasure of God, a believer must "sell" all that he has. This means that a believer must rid themselves of ALL their carnal understanding of God's Word. Only then will they be able to "buy" (receive) the treasure of God.

You asked:
Are we to believe that God’s holy commandments are no longer to be kept in this world of modern Christianity?

Most of the commandments of the Law are fulfilled by loving God and by loving your neighbor. The remaining commandments of the Law which include things like Sabbath Day keeping, tithing, circumcision, animal sacrifices & offerings and all the various punishments of the Law are fulfilled when an Elect believer is converted and is "in Christ". Because they are fulfilled, these commandments should no longer be performed. In other words, the converted believer has entered into the "rest" of Christ and therefore, they no longer have any "works" to perform for their salvation. Christ will perform all the necessary "works".

Note: The physical commandments of the New Covenant of water baptism and communion are given to all newly called out believers to "foreshadow" their spiritual fulfillment which will happen when the believer is converted. Water baptism is fulfilled when a believer is given the spiritual baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain). Physical communion is fulfilled when a believer is converted and they spiritually consume the New Wine (New Covenant) and the bread of Christ (truth).

Believers who try to keep the physical commandments of the Law do so because their carnal nature has a preference for the Old Wine (Old Covenant of "works"). And when this preference is coupled with their carnal understanding of scripture (and with Satan's deceptions), the believer will fall from the grace of the New Covenant and will come under the authority of the Old Covenant of Law again.

Paul said that when a believer tries to keep even just one commandment, they become a debtor to keeping the whole Law which cannot be done. Because it cannot be done, Christ said that these believers are working lawlessness because they remain under the Law and are breaking the Law. Because they are, Christ will reject them upon their resurrection from the grave.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work lawlessness.

So who are these "many"? The "many" are the same many who were called out from the world but were not chosen:

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

The "few" who are "chosen" are the Elect and they will be given both the Early and Latter Rains before they die.

The "many" called out believers are only given the Early Rain before they die. This leaves them carnal, unconverted and under the Law. This happens to a person solely because of the "will" and purposes of God and not because of anything the person has ever done in their life. They simply were not blessed to be converted during their lifetime and to be included in the early portion of Christ's harvest of mankind.

No man can choose when Christ will save them and no man has the ability to save themselves. WE MUST WAIT ON THE LORD TO COME TO US AND GIVE US THE FREE GIFT OF SALVATION WHICH HE PROMISED TO GIVE US ALL. Most of mankind (probably over 99.9999%) will not be saved in this age. They will be saved at the end of the final age when Christ and His Bride bring in the great harvest of mankind. This great harvest is "typed" by the Feast of Tabernacles.

The Feast of Weeks (First Fruits) "types" the harvest of the Elect in this age. They are a very small group of blessed individuals. But in the end, all mankind will receive the free gift of salvation and will enter eternity in the Kingdom of Heaven. This is the Good News of the Gospel of Christ.

The "another gospel" (which is taught by the apostate church) mixes works with faith. It teaches that people who do not do certain "works" (varies by denomination) will be condemned to hell for all eternity; or as some teach, the person will be annihilated in the Lake of Fire.

You said:
Now people will take this one verse and run with it, ignoring the writings of the others apostles and the prophets and the statements of even Jesus himself. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5: 12).

Yes, all mankind is "already condemned" because death was passed down to us all from Adam.

You said:
But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

When a believer is converted and under the New Covenant, they will continue to sin until Christ completes His judgment of their carnal mind. After their carnal mind is destroyed, it will be replaced by the Mind of Christ.

John the Baptist, who is a "type" for the Old Man (carnal mind) said this:

John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

As Christ judges a converted believer, the Old Man will decrease as Christ within them increases. Paul calls this judgment "chastisement".

Until the believer completely stops sinning, their sins are covered by the blood of Christ under the New Covenant. And since the believer is not under the Law, their sins are not a transgression of the Law. It really is that simple.

You quoted 1John 3:4 but you failed to include verses 5 & 6:

1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

When a believer is converted, they are "in Christ" and they have no sin (even if they sin) because Christ's sacrifice covers their sin.

Look what John said in chapter 2:

1John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

We keep His commandments by loving God and our neighbor and when we do, the love of God is perfected in us. This matches exactly with what Paul said.

CONTINUED ON THE NEXT POST...

 

[FaithWillDo]

You cherry pick the Bible, because there's no way you can ignore all I written, but you have. Are we to believe that God’s holy commandments are no longer to be kept in this world of modern Christianity? One of the most often quoted verses to try and do away with God’s Royal law comes from the writing of the Apostle Paul; (Rom. 6:14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace.

Now people will take this one verse and run with it, ignoring the writings of the others apostles and the prophets and the statements of even Jesus himself. Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5: 12) But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him. Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord. People are being taught that once you are quote “saved” that you can never fall to the spiritually lost condition. This is not true and totally unbiblical; this teaching is a damnable heresy brought in by man. To teach someone that all they have to do is believe on Christ and you are saved is a doctrine of the devil. Many who teach eternal security teach that once a man is saved no matter how wicked he becomes he is still saved.

CONTINUED FROM THE PREVIOUS POST...

You said:
Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him.

No man can "freely" accept Jesus. The only way we accept Jesus is for Christ to come to us and give us the Early Rain:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Only AFTER Christ gives us the Spirit, will we call Him "Lord". And after He gives us the Spirit, we can no longer reject Him (call Him accursed).

This verse below is how a person makes the confession of faith:

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Christ prepares our heart with the Holy Spirit and from the indwelling of the Spirit, we make the confession of faith. It is the only decision we will make.

Mankind's supposed "free will" is a lie from Satan and is completely contradicted by scripture.

Also, no man can "choose" to stop serving sin. If we could, the Old Covenant of Law would have been all that was necessary to save us. Christ is the only one who has the power to not sin. He has that ability because He has the FULL measure of the Holy Spirit which NEVER allowed Him to become carnally minded. In contrast, mankind was created with a "marred" spirit (Jer 18:4). Its flaw is that it is WEAK. Because it is weak, our flesh controls us and causes us to be carnally minded. It is our carnal mind that causes us to sin. In that carnal condition, mankind has NO ABILITY to stop sinning. The only way it is possible for us to stop sinning is for Christ to convert us and give us a new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit. With the Spirit governing us, our carnal mind will slowly become the Mind of Christ. When it does, we will no longer sin.

You said:
Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord.

Once a believer is converted by receiving the Latter Rain, they cannot ever fall away again. They are the ones who will remain "faithful" until the end of their lives.

However, a believer who has only received the Early Rain is not converted and will remain carnally minded. And because the believer remains carnally minded, they cannot understand the truth of God. Satan will then come to them and deceive them. His deceptions will cause them to "fall away" and lose their salvation. It happens to everyone who is "called out". For that reason, the Latter Rain is necessary to restore a believer's salvation. With the Latter Rain, the believer's spiritual blindness is healed and they will come out from Satan's deceptions. Then the "Man of Sin" (who they are) is revealed to them and they will see the Abomination of Desolation which occurred in God's temple (themselves).

Here is a portion of scripture where Christ taught this truth of what happens to a believer after they receive the Early Rain:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit (the Holy Spirit of Promise, Eph 1:13-14), they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

Also, the Second Coming of Christ is a reoccurring spiritual event when Christ comes to His Elect a second time to give them the Latter Rain and salvation.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

After a fallen away Elect believer repents of their works (like the Jewish Elect did), the pathway will be straight for Christ to come to them a second time. The Jewish Elect "typed" the period of waiting when they waited in the upper room for Christ to "come again". The Second Coming of Christ is NOT a one-time event which happens at the end of the literal age. If Christ does not come a second time to a person before they die, they will not be saved.

You said:
People are being taught that once you are quote “saved” that you can never fall to the spiritually lost condition. This is not true and totally unbiblical; this teaching is a damnable heresy brought in by man. To teach someone that all they have to do is believe on Christ and you are saved is a doctrine of the devil. Many who teach eternal security teach that once a man is saved no matter how wicked he becomes he is still saved.

I explained this concept above but I wanted to add a little more to my comments.

It is true that all called out believers will "fall away" and will not remain faithful. "Falling away" is what happens when a believer starts mixing "works" with faith. When a believer does this, they are no longer "faithful" and are no longer covered by the New Covenant of Grace THROUGH FAITH.

When a believer "falls away" from faith alone, they have committed the sin that leads to death. This is the only sin that a believer can commit that will cause them to lose their salvation and return them to being under the Law. It happens to all called out believers, including the Elect. However, the Elect will later be given the Latter Rain for their conversion & salvation. Once converted, they can never fall away again. They are the only ones who will remain faithful "until the end".

Joe

 

[bro.tan]

CONTINUED FROM THE PREVIOUS POST...

You said:
Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him.

No man can "freely" accept Jesus. The only way we accept Jesus is for Christ to come to us and give us the Early Rain:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Only AFTER Christ gives us the Spirit, will we call Him "Lord". And after He gives us the Spirit, we can no longer reject Him (call Him accursed).

This verse below is how a person makes the confession of faith:

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Christ prepares our heart with the Holy Spirit and from the indwelling of the Spirit, we make the confession of faith. It is the only decision we will make.

Mankind's supposed "free will" is a lie from Satan and is completely contradicted by scripture.

Also, no man can "choose" to stop serving sin. If we could, the Old Covenant of Law would have been all that was necessary to save us. Christ is the only one who has the power to not sin. He has that ability because He has the FULL measure of the Holy Spirit which NEVER allowed Him to become carnally minded. In contrast, mankind was created with a "marred" spirit (Jer 18:4). Its flaw is that it is WEAK. Because it is weak, our flesh controls us and causes us to be carnally minded. It is our carnal mind that causes us to sin. In that carnal condition, mankind has NO ABILITY to stop sinning. The only way it is possible for us to stop sinning is for Christ to convert us and give us a new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit. With the Spirit governing us, our carnal mind will slowly become the Mind of Christ. When it does, we will no longer sin.

You said:
Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord.

Once a believer is converted by receiving the Latter Rain, they cannot ever fall away again. They are the ones who will remain "faithful" until the end of their lives.

However, a believer who has only received the Early Rain is not converted and will remain carnally minded. And because the believer remains carnally minded, they cannot understand the truth of God. Satan will then come to them and deceive them. His deceptions will cause them to "fall away" and lose their salvation. It happens to everyone who is "called out". For that reason, the Latter Rain is necessary to restore a believer's salvation. With the Latter Rain, the believer's spiritual blindness is healed and they will come out from Satan's deceptions. Then the "Man of Sin" (who they are) is revealed to them and they will see the Abomination of Desolation which occurred in God's temple (themselves).

Here is a portion of scripture where Christ taught this truth of what happens to a believer after they receive the Early Rain:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit (the Holy Spirit of Promise, Eph 1:13-14), they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

Also, the Second Coming of Christ is a reoccurring spiritual event when Christ comes to His Elect a second time to give them the Latter Rain and salvation.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

After a fallen away Elect believer repents of their works (like the Jewish Elect did), the pathway will be straight for Christ to come to them a second time. The Jewish Elect "typed" the period of waiting when they waited in the upper room for Christ to "come again". The Second Coming of Christ is NOT a one-time event which happens at the end of the literal age. If Christ does not come a second time to a person before they die, they will not be saved.

You said:
People are being taught that once you are quote “saved” that you can never fall to the spiritually lost condition. This is not true and totally unbiblical; this teaching is a damnable heresy brought in by man. To teach someone that all they have to do is believe on Christ and you are saved is a doctrine of the devil. Many who teach eternal security teach that once a man is saved no matter how wicked he becomes he is still saved.

I explained this concept above but I wanted to add a little more to my comments.

It is true that all called out believers will "fall away" and will not remain faithful. "Falling away" is what happens when a believer starts mixing "works" with faith. When a believer does this, they are no longer "faithful" and are no longer covered by the New Covenant of Grace THROUGH FAITH.

When a believer "falls away" from faith alone, they have committed the sin that leads to death. This is the only sin that a believer can commit that will cause them to lose their salvation and return them to being under the Law. It happens to all called out believers, including the Elect. However, the Elect will later be given the Latter Rain for their conversion & salvation. Once converted, they can never fall away again. They are the only ones who will remain faithful "until the end".

Joe

That's not true, because Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation (Hebrews 10:26-27) 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Let us avoid this at all costs, seeking a better reward. Jesus will return real soon And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12).

Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14). After this we find only seven more verses in the bible, and none of them does away with God's commandments.

 

[bro.tan]

The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his.

This is true love, and if obeyed how much better would our world be? This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today.

 

[FaithWillDo]

That's not true, because Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation (Hebrews 10:26-27) 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Let us avoid this at all costs, seeking a better reward. Jesus will return real soon And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12).

Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14). After this we find only seven more verses in the bible, and none of them does away with God's commandments.

Dear bro.tan,
In Heb 10:26, Paul is talking about the sin of falling back to works rather than remaining steadfast in faith and trusting that Christ's sacrifice on the cross is sufficient to cover all sins.

Look at what Paul says to begin his teaching in chapter 10:

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Paul is teaching about the difference of the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. If we remain steadfast in faith, all our sins are covered by the blood of Christ. If we turn back to works, it diminishes the sacrifice of Christ and as a result "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins".

Now look at what Paul says to finish this teaching:

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back (return to works), my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

The sin of returning to works rather than remaining steadfast in faith is the ONE AND ONLY SIN that causes a believer to lose their salvation. Paul is NOT teaching that if we break any of the commandments of the Law, we will lose our salvation.

Earlier in Hebrews, Paul said this:

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

The works of the Law are "dead works". When we trust Christ only by faith, we are serving the living God. The only Law to follow is to love God and our neighbor. There is nothing more to follow when a person is under the faith of the New Covenant. Christ's sacrifice covers all our sins when we remain "faithful". Understanding this concept is vital to a person's salvation.

Look at this verse in Colossians:

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The ordinances of the Law have been nailed to the cross. Under the New Covenant, they are fulfilled by the blood of Christ. The ordinances which Paul is talking about are the ones like Sabbath Day keeping, circumcision, tithing, feast days, animal sacrifices, etc.

Even John taught about the "sin that leads to death":

1John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Turning back to works is the sin that leads to death. For all other sins, we have the sacrifice of Christ which atones for them:

1John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

You should read Galatians chapter 3 where Paul discusses faith vs. works of the Law. It is a reoccurring theme in most of His letters because it is so important.

You said:
Jesus will return real soon And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12).

The reward Christ brings with Him when He returns is eternal salvation. Salvation is given to a person when Christ comes a second time to pour out the Latter Rain. Christ must come "real soon" to each of the Elect before they die because without His coming, they will not be saved.

If Christ's second coming is a one-time event that is still yet future, how can you believe that 1900 years and counting is "quickly"?

Revelation teaches that to be "blessed", a person must "keep" the sayings of the prophecy of the book. John is even told NOT seal the prophecy because the time for them is "at hand". The prophecy teaches the pathway to salvation the Elect must travel to be save during each of their lifetimes. For that reason, the Second Coming of Christ is said to be "is, was and will be coming".

You said:
The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3).

John is referring to the commandments of not bearing false witness, stealing, fornication/adultery, etc. which are fulfilled by loving God and loving our neighbor. John is not talking about the ordinances of the Law which Christ's sacrifice on the cross fulfilled or our conversion fulfilled.

The ordinances of the Law are not only hard to keep, they are impossible to keep.

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

The Law was given to lead us to Christ - it is our schoolmaster:

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Joe

 

[amigo de christo]

DOUBT=Satn's oldest deception= Did God really say????

Did GOD really say . exactly .
DID JESUS really say unto those who believed not on him , IT WILL BE WORSE for you than even for SODOM on the day of judgment .
NAY nay says the serpent , GOD IS LOVE , all paths and all religoins HE will accept if one has love .
THE DEVIL IS A LIAR GYMSY .
DID GOD really say man with man and woman with woman is an abomination
Did paul really write and say its unseemingly
Did the same paul write and say that CHARITY behaveth not itself unseemingly .
NAY any sayeth the serpent , GOD IS LOVE , the bible is outdated , we now know so much more about it than they did back then .
THE DEVIL is a LIAR gymsy .
So my question to us all is this . WHY do so many follow his version of love and of god .

 

[amigo de christo]

Did JESUS really say beware of covetousness
and not to heap and steap up your treasures upon this earth .
NAY , nay sayeth the serpent BLAB IT AND GRAB IT , YOU A KINGS KID .

 

[bro.tan]

Dear bro.tan,
In Heb 10:26, Paul is talking about the sin of falling back to works rather than remaining steadfast in faith and trusting that Christ's sacrifice on the cross is sufficient to cover all sins.

Look at what Paul says to begin his teaching in chapter 10:

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Paul is teaching about the difference of the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. If we remain steadfast in faith, all our sins are covered by the blood of Christ. If we turn back to works, it diminishes the sacrifice of Christ and as a result "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins".

Now look at what Paul says to finish this teaching:

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back (return to works), my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

That's not what Paul is saying in that verse. Paul says in Heb 10: 38 Now the just shall live by faith: But if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Paul is talking about sin, drawing back to your sinful ways from repentance, but you if continue mis leading people and adding to the verses, this is what coming to you. Let's go to Rev 22: 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

The sin of returning to works rather than remaining steadfast in faith is the ONE AND ONLY SIN that causes a believer to lose their salvation. Paul is NOT teaching that if we break any of the commandments of the Law, we will lose our salvation.

Earlier in Hebrews, Paul said this:

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

The works of the Law are "dead works". When we trust Christ only by faith, we are serving the living God. The only Law to follow is to love God and our neighbor. There is nothing more to follow when a person is under the faith of the New Covenant. Christ's sacrifice covers all our sins when we remain "faithful". Understanding this concept is vital to a person's salvation.

Look at this verse in Colossians:

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The ordinances of the Law have been nailed to the cross. Under the New Covenant, they are fulfilled by the blood of Christ. The ordinances which Paul is talking about are the ones like Sabbath Day keeping, circumcision, tithing, feast days, animal sacrifices, etc.

Even John taught about the "sin that leads to death":

1John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Turning back to works is the sin that leads to death. For all other sins, we have the sacrifice of Christ which atones for them:

1John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

You should read Galatians chapter 3 where Paul discusses faith vs. works of the Law. It is a reoccurring theme in most of His letters because it is so important.

You said:
Jesus will return real soon And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12).

The reward Christ brings with Him when He returns is eternal salvation. Salvation is given to a person when Christ comes a second time to pour out the Latter Rain. Christ must come "real soon" to each of the Elect before they die because without His coming, they will not be saved.

If Christ's second coming is a one-time event that is still yet future, how can you believe that 1900 years and counting is "quickly"?

Revelation teaches that to be "blessed", a person must "keep" the sayings of the prophecy of the book. John is even told NOT seal the prophecy because the time for them is "at hand". The prophecy teaches the pathway to salvation the Elect must travel to be save during each of their lifetimes. For that reason, the Second Coming of Christ is said to be "is, was and will be coming".

You said:
The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3).

John is referring to the commandments of not bearing false witness, stealing, fornication/adultery, etc. which are fulfilled by loving God and loving our neighbor. John is not talking about the ordinances of the Law which Christ's sacrifice on the cross fulfilled or our conversion fulfilled.

The ordinances of the Law are not only hard to keep, they are impossible to keep.

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

The Law was given to lead us to Christ - it is our schoolmaster:

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Joe

A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12).

 

[FaithWillDo]

That's not what Paul is saying in that verse. Paul says in Heb 10: 38

Dear bro.tan,
The repentance that Paul is speaking of is a repentance from "dead works".

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Christ also said:

Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

This is where the apostate church makes a grievous error because they do not understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ. They teach a gospel of "works" mixed with faith. This is the crooked way and is the "another gospel" of Satan. But with the Gospel of Christ, it is free from the works of man because it is 100% the works of Christ.

Under the New Covenant, Christ will come to every man who has ever lived and give them the free gift of the Holy Spirit. After they receive this free gift, their spiritual blindness will be healed so that they can see "spiritually". Christ will then feed them His truth. Once they have received Christ's spiritual nourishment, the Day of the Lord will come to them. This is Christ's judgment which will destroy the carnality of the believer. This process of salvation is called conversion and it all happens solely by the work of Christ. And because it does, the Sabbath Day is fulfilled within the believer because they have rested from their own attempts to make themselves righteous before God.

Consider what Christ said in the verses below. It is recorded in three of the Gospels so it is a very important teaching.

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the Sabbath Day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungered, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungered, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 For the Son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath Day.

We must remember that Christ teaches us in scripture through spiritual symbols, types and parables.

Actual events which happen are types. When the events are fictional, they are parables.

These types and parables also include the usage of spiritual symbols.

The message the types and parables teach is a foreshadowing of something that will be spiritually fulfilled under the New Covenant.

The teaching of Mat 12:1-7 comes from an actual event which took place so it is a "type".

So what is this "type" in the verses above teaching us?

Verse 1 says that the disciples "hungered". Hungering is a symbol for the desire to understand the truth of God's Word (who is Christ). Consuming the wheat corn is a symbol for receiving and understanding the truth of God's Word.

Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

In verse 1, the disciples were "hungered" and were picking and eating the wheat corn. This is said to have happened on the Sabbath Day.

The Sabbath Day is a physical law which foreshadows the time when a believer has entered into the "rest" of Christ. In other words, the believer has ceased from the works of the Law and has entered into the New Covenant of Grace through Faith. The faith of the New Covenant is trusting in Christ to do all the necessary works of salvation.

To enter into the New Covenant, Christ will come to a believer and give them the Latter Rain which will heal the believer's spiritual blindness. With their blindness healed, the truth of God's Word will open up to them as they are fed "truth" (bread) from Christ.

In the marriage analogy, this event of being fed the truth of God's Word is represented by the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. The Lord's Supper is also a "type" which foreshadows the same spiritual event.

In verse 3, Christ responds to the complaint of the Pharisees by telling them that David (who is a type for the Elect) entered into the temple and ate the shewbread which is only lawful for the priests to eat. By telling the Pharisees this, we know that this OT story is related to what Christ was presently teaching.

This verse applies:

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The Elect will be the priests of Christ during the final age. For them, it is lawful to eat the shewbread on the Sabbath Day. So when Christ mentions this story of David eating the shewbread, Christ is saying that it represents the same truth which the disciples were typing.

Christ continues His response to the Pharisees by also mentioning that when a priest enters the temple on the Sabbath Day and profanes the Sabbath Day, they are blameless. This also applies to what the disciples were doing on the Sabbath Day. The disciples were profaning the physical observance of the Sabbath Day but they, too, were blameless because they had entered into the "rest" of Christ. A converted believer, who has become a priest of Christ, is blameless when they no longer keep the physical Sabbath Day. A converted believer honors the Sabbath Day by entering into the "rest" of Christ - and when they do, they rest from all their labors every day of the week.

After a believer has repented of their works and has make the pathway straight for Christ to come to them a second time, the believer will enter into the New Covenant by "faith" alone. Judgment will then follow and rid the believer of their carnality. With their carnality destroyed, they are a "new creation" and will never "fall away" from faith again. They have permanently rested from their works.

Christ ends His response to the Pharisees by saying that He (the Son of Man) is the Lord of the Sabbath Day. In other words, He is the one who decides who and when a person enters His "rest" (salvation).

In the verses below, Paul teaches this truth by the "type" the Nation of Israel presented by wandering in the wilderness for forty years:

Heb 3:16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

This scripture is referring to the story of the 12 spies who Moses sent into the Promised Land. Ten spies came back in fear of the "giants" who dwelt there. They gave a "bad report" which was based on their own abilities (works) to take the land. However, two of spies came back with a "good report" which was based on "faith". They believed that the land could be taken because God would do the work of making it happen.

The Nation of Israel believed the bad report and committed the sin of "unbelief" which is Paul's way of saying that they had no faith. Only Joshua and Caleb (who are types of the Elect) had the faith necessary to enter the Promised Land (salvation). Those who don't have faith will never be allowed to enter the Promised Land and that is why everyone who believed the "bad report" died in the wilderness during the forty years of wandering. Only Joshua and Caleb lived through that time of tribulation to cross the Jordan River (types the Latter Rain) and enter the Promised Land. Joshua and Caleb entered by faith. The others who died in the wilderness only trusted in their own works which is the crooked way and will not save a person.

CONTINUED ON THE NEXT POST...