How the New Word Translation Contradicts Itself: The Word was a god

[Angel Faith]

As I said. You people have abundance of scholarship that is good for nothing.

Nothing in all of these multitude of words, does anything to correct the fact that the NWT contradicts itself.

It has nothing to do with what other translators say.

It shows that making the Word a god is not only bogus Greek, but cannot be sustained with the rest of Scripture.

If you say the Word was a god, then other Scripture says that god is no god at all.

The NWT says both, and so contradicts itself.

That's not a very kind way of putting it, is it?
Why the anger?

 

[Wrangler]

The NWT contradicts itself by translating John 1:1 as the Word was a god, because it does accurately translate several other Scripture, that declare there is no such thing as any god, really being a god:

This seems like a strawman argument. How come you do not reference these other verses specifically?

 

[Wrangler]

Being gods or as gods is a lie, because Scripture condemns all gods as being no gods at all.

Again no specific verse cited.

I can assure you that Scripture references dozens of lords, which Jesus is one; it references many REAL-lowercase gods as well. None of these are the Creator, YHWH, capital-LORD of Heaven's Armies, Jesus God, our Father. See the difference?

 

[Angel Faith]

Again no specific verse cited.

I can assure you that Scripture references dozens of lords, which Jesus is one; it references many REAL-lowercase gods as well. None of these are the Creator, YHWH, capital-LORD of Heaven's Armies, Jesus God, our Father. See the difference

Maybe consider that verse is in the Jehovah Witness New World Translation, NWT, of the Bible.

 

[Robert Gwin]

And you answered by what you know. (How is is possible to answer what you do not know?)

When Jesus said "it is written" He was clearly referring to the Torah. Deuteronomy 8:3, "He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your ancestors had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord."

You are very correct, but that was what he quoted in verse 4. We were discussing verse 10, where was that written Jim? This time however post the verse from a version that translates it without altering God's name, unless of course you believe Jesus would alter the verse he was quoting.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Seriously?

Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.

Scripture is not saying either Jesus nor Paul was a god, but that the simple pagans thought so. The same with the Ephesians calling the apostles Jupiter and Mars.

What's the matter with you people? I once again try to engage you, because you bring up something, without including everyone else in it, and you descend into this kind of foolishness?

First you say nothing to object to NWT contradicting itself, and then you grasp at insults to intelligence.

You completely ignored the point Rob, we were discussing inconsistency in translation. Theos/theon is properly translated a god if not used in conjunction with a definite article. Ho theos found in Jn 1:1 was properly translated God earlier in the verse but the translators of your selected version rendered theos as God as well. The New World Translation did not. So there is no contradiction sir, because the truth is, Jesus is not God, rather a god as is satan.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Once again, this is meaningless.

The truth remains, that the NWT, or any other translation, contradicts itself, by saying the Word was a god, while also confirming that all such made gods are not really gods at all.

We strove for accuracy with our translation Rob. I personally would like to see it even more accurate, for instance, the NWT changed believes to exercise faith at Jn 3:16, I understand why they did it, but would rather them use what was there, they also at times add torture to stake, which it should simply be rendered stake as that is what a stauros is.

 

[robert derrick]

Just my guess. Maybe they were thinking it fits given Eloheim is plural.
Therefore, in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was [a] God is a unique identifier for the only El.

No, they teach a created christ, that was deified as a god for good works as a man.

It's basically the same paganism that defied Gilgamesh and Herakles.

They teach a god from their translation, that also teaches no such gods made by man are gods at all.

Can a man make gods for himself, When they are not really gods?

And in their effort not to be contradicting themselves, they teach there be many gods, that are gods. And that also contradicts their own translation elsewhere too:

Nevertheless, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those who are not really gods.

For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.

And so, on the one hand they say Jesus Christ was a god, and then on the other hand they agree there are no such gods, but only God the Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Anyone that believes in a god or gods, are pagans rejecting the truth of the one true God, who only is God.

The point is that any translation of John 1:1, that the Word was a god, will contradict itself, if they correctly translate these other Scriptures, that say there are no such gods, but are only vain imaginations of rebellious angels and men.

The first lie that Lucifer is the father of, that he passes on to men, is that any created living being are gods, or can ever become gods in their own right.

 

[Wrangler]

Anyone that believes in a god or gods, are pagans rejecting the truth of the one true God, who only is God.

Guess you did not read my thread on REAL-lowercase gods in Scripture.

There are different senses of words. In Scripture, there are dozens of lowercase-lords, of which Jesus is one.

There are REAL lowercase gods in Scripture also, which is synonymous with lowercase lord. If you are referring to a particular one, rather than rely on somewhat arbitrary capitalization, it’s best to call the Supreme Being by name. If you are referring to the Creator, the capital LORD of Heaven’s Armies, Jesus’ God, the God of Israel, Jacob and Abraham; his name is YHWH.

YHWH says this is the name he is to be remembered for all generations.

 

[Wrangler]

The point is that any translation of John 1:1, that the Word was a god, will contradict itself, if they correctly translate these other Scriptures, that say there are no such gods,

What verses are these again?

Discernment is achieved when recognizing there are different senses of words, which clears up apparent contradictions.

 

[robert derrick]

You completely ignored the point Rob, we were discussing inconsistency in translation. Theos/theon is properly translated a god if not used in conjunction with a definite article. Ho theos found in Jn 1:1 was properly translated God earlier in the verse but the translators of your selected version rendered theos as God as well. The New World Translation did not. So there is no contradiction sir, because the truth is, Jesus is not God, rather a god as is satan.

The contradiction is doctrinal in nature, because all translation of Scripture is doctrinal, not just grammatical.

It is impossible to translate the ancient language strictly grammatical, because the ancient Greek was always written in capital letters.

No one is saying that 'god' or 'gods' can't be an accurate doctrinal translation, because any translation of God and Lord, vs god and lord, is always doctrinal.

And so, Any doctrinal translation that says the Word was a god, will contradict itself, when also saying that any such god or gods are no gods at all.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

Nevertheless, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those who are not really gods.

For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.

And so we see that any such translation, that the Word was a god, will contradict itself doctrinally elsewhere, by also saying that making christ a god, is to reject both God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Can a man make gods for himself, When they are not really gods?

Your own doctrinal translation of Jesus being a god, also says that god is not really a god.

This proves what I have learned from you people: you don't really care about whether Jesus is God, or is a god, because you don't even take your own translation seriously.

All you people care about, is doing away with a tormenting hell and lake of fire for souls of wicked men.

All the translation and divinity of Christ arguments, are just sideshows to immerse yourself in pseudo-scholarship.

If there were a translation that has Jesus as Lord and God, and does not teach a hell of torment for wicked souls, then you would promote that.

And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest, those who worship the wild beast and its image and whoever receives the mark of its name.

What you really need to do, is to come up with your own translation, that does away with these verses, because your NWT isn't getting the job done.

Such as:

And the smoke of their torment ascends at all times, day and night, and there is no rest on earth, for those who worship the wild beast and its image and whoever receives the mark of its name.

There. I have done away with tormenting lake of fire forever and ever.

Happy now?

 

[Enoch111]

The NWT contradicts itself by translating John 1:1 as the Word was a god...

That is to be expected. The NWT is a cultic "bible" designed to fool the gullible. It is also based upon the corrupt critical text of Westcott & Hort (Now Nestle-Aland). Many have been fooled into believing the lies of the Jehovah's Witnesses, which is absolutely sad. There is nothing "new world" about this translation, unless it is designed to run parallel with the New World Order.

 

[robert derrick]

Guess you did not read my thread on REAL-lowercase gods in Scripture.

There are different senses of words. In Scripture, there are dozens of lowercase-lords, of which Jesus is one.

There are REAL lowercase gods in Scripture also, which is synonymous with lowercase lord. If you are referring to a particular one, rather than rely on somewhat arbitrary capitalization, it’s best to call the Supreme Being by name. If you are referring to the Creator, the capital LORD of Heaven’s Armies, Jesus’ God, the God of Israel, Jacob and Abraham; his name is YHWH.

YHWH says this is the name he is to be remembered for all generations.

Can a man make gods for himself, When they are not really gods?

For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.

You reject your own translation to believe in REAL gods, that are really gods. Now, you can twist your own bible.

Doctrine of the LORD God in Scripture, is that there are no god with Him, and that all such gods are not REALLY gods. And all who believe there are such REAL gods and lords, reject both God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Your own translation condemns you as a pagan heretic, that preaches there be Real gods, that are really gods.

The problem for your translation, and any other false doctrine, that says the Word was a god, is that it will contradict it's own doctrine elsewhere, when it says there is no such gods, that are really gods, but there is only the true God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

This simply proves that you don't really care about any such doctrines, manuscripts, nor translations, so that you don't take your own translation and doctrine of Christ seriously.

The only teaching you really care about is doing away with eternal torment for any soul of man. And so you make the man Christ Jesus into a mortally created soul, who is another defied god alongside Herakles with a bodily resurrection among the gods of heaven.

Mt Olympus is your great and high mountain, upon with the gods abode in their own eternal city of temples to themselves.

 

[robert derrick]

That is to be expected. The NWT is a cultic "bible" designed to fool the gullible. It is also based upon the corrupt critical text of Westcott & Hort (Now Nestle-Aland). Many have been fooled into believing the lies of the Jehovah's Witnesses, which is absolutely sad. There is nothing "new world" about this translation, unless it is designed to run parallel with the New World Order.

Since JW's like the Jews are so contrary to all men, then the only new world order they intend, is for themselves alone.

I believe all the manuscript, translation, and doctrinal games they play, has nothing really to do with Jesus being God or a god, but is just smokescreen for their real purpose: Doing away with torment of wicked souls in hell and the lake of fire.

I believe their whole translation was for one purpose: to say the Word was a god.

It's like liberals that just want to say the things that ought not be said among sensible moral people. It's just shock-effect.

I don't think they really care one way or the other. If someone would produce a translation without eternal torment, then they'd embrace Jesus Christ is the only true God, and relegate their jehovah to deified god status.

This makes perfect sense to me, which shows why they have no integrity in their arguments. Everything is just words and ideas playtime with them.

Tell them that there is eternal torment for the wicked souls of men, and then they get serious.

 

[Wrangler]

You reject your own translation to believe in REAL gods, that are really gods. Now, you can twist your own bible.

No I don’t. You still have not cited the verse!

FYI, the NWT is not my Bible; I am not JW. Still, you seem determined to pretend there are not different senses of words, including the words ‘god’ and ‘lord.’ Remain willfully ignorant if you want.

 

[Angel Faith]

No, they teach a created christ, that was deified as a god for good works as a man.

It's basically the same paganism that defied Gilgamesh and Herakles.

They teach a god from their translation, that also teaches no such gods made by man are gods at all.

Can a man make gods for himself, When they are not really gods?

And in their effort not to be contradicting themselves, they teach there be many gods, that are gods. And that also contradicts their own translation elsewhere too:

Nevertheless, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those who are not really gods.

For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.

And so, on the one hand they say Jesus Christ was a god, and then on the other hand they agree there are no such gods, but only God the Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Anyone that believes in a god or gods, are pagans rejecting the truth of the one true God, who only is God.

The point is that any translation of John 1:1, that the Word was a god, will contradict itself, if they correctly translate these other Scriptures, that say there are no such gods, but are only vain imaginations of rebellious angels and men.

The first lie that Lucifer is the father of, that he passes on to men, is that any created living being are gods, or can ever become gods in their own right.

''...Have I not told you yet are god's? "

 

[robert derrick]

''...Have I not told you yet are god's? "

Do you believe then that there are gods, that are indeed gods? Do you believe God in Psalms, and Jesus Christ was calling them gods, as an honor? The fact is, that the ones being spoken to as gods, were the rebellious against God:

As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. 5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ.

Scripture concludes that all such gods are idols of men only, and there is only one true God the Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus was not calling His people gods, but rather was exposing the hypocrisy of the unbelievers, that were rejecting Jesus as Son of God on earth, and yet thought of themselves as gods in their own right.

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

This is the first lie, that Lucifer had in his own heart, when he was cast down, and helped put into the heart of man, when Adam also fell by transgression.

The lie is to be as gods, and are no gods, but are only angels and men that rebel against God, and think to be gods unto themselves, with right to do good or evil, according to their own will and pleasure.

What gods was the serpent promising man to be as? The fallen angels.

“They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.”

And so, why does Scripture agree that His people had become as gods? Not for the good, but for the evil: it was an accusation against them.

They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. 6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

God is speaking to those people who have rebelled against Him, just as Lucifer, the angels, and Adam did: they are being judged as false gods of their own making:

“Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they are no gods?”

God is not speaking to His faithful and true and humble people, but only to the proud and rebellious, when He calls them gods.

And so we see who was Jesus also was speaking to, when He quoted the Psalm that rebuked the people for thinking themselves gods:

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

He was speaking, once again, to the unbelievers in Himself as Christ and Son of God. He was not telling the faithful children of Israel, that they were indeed gods.

The unbelievers then, as today, that reject Jesus Christ as Lord and God, also believe they are gods, and preach gods and lords of angels and men.

He was simply taking them in their own delusion: they thought that being gods is good and true and real. So Jesus simply turned their foolishness on themselves, by asking why they should reject Himself as being Son of God, when they think they are gods themselves.

The truth about being gods in Scripture, is that angels and men are indeed created eternal spiritual beings, in the image and likeness of God Himself, But when they turn to their own counsel and will to do evil and good, they still remain immortal beings, but make themselves false gods and idols unto ourselves, who are not eternally separated and apart from the eternal life of God, that is only Christ Jesus.

Produce your cause, saith the LORD; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob.

Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.

Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.

Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you.

The nature of being gods in Scripture, is to make oneself a god unto ourselves, to choose good and evil according to our own will and imagination, while paying lip service to the commandment, word, and law of Christ.

Nowhere in Scripture, does God speak any good of being gods. Therefore, to make Jesus Christ a god, is to blaspheme Him as an idol, devil, and false god.

And all translations that call Jesus Christ a god, end up cursing Him elsewhere in Scripture, as a false god.

 

[robert derrick]

No I don’t. You still have not cited the verse!

FYI, the NWT is not my Bible; I am not JW. Still, you seem determined to pretend there are not different senses of words, including the words ‘god’ and ‘lord.’ Remain willfully ignorant if you want.

Yes, I have, and none of you respond to it, but only talk around it.

What we are seeing is your real idolatry. You say Jesus is a god. You preach there be gods like Him, and so you must be one of those gods yourself.

Unless you're not anything like Him.

Lucifer and his angels were the first to make themselves gods, then Adam and all sinning like him, to be as those gods, and today creators of christ as god, not only sin like Adam, but preach the serpent was right:

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

You are no gods, and you reject the only true God and Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

FYI, the NWT is not my Bible; I am not JW. Still, you seem determined to pretend there are not different senses of words, including the words ‘god’ and ‘lord.’ Remain willfully ignorant if you want.

So long as you preach the gods, of whom your christ is a leading one, then you are making a silly difference without any distinction.

As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

You call christ a god, you make him an idol unto yourself, and you preach many gods such as yourself, led by your own christ of your own mind and imagination.

You honor yourselves as speaking of the one God, and yet you preach there be many gods, of whim christ is but one.

 

[Wrangler]

Yes, I have

Great! Cite the verse.

 

[Wrangler]

You say Jesus is a god. You preach there be gods like Him

These are Jesus words not mine. For you to say Jesus is otherwise, is your idolatry.