How to Explain the Bible to Atheists

[Emily Nghiem]

Both Atheists and Christians would either be glad or dismayed to know
the same message can be taught from the Bible,
even if it is completely mythologized or people don't believe it.
Some Atheists WANT to debunk it altogether, and aren't happy with the idea
that the same universal truth exists whether or not we use the Bible to teach it.
Likewise, some Christians don't like this idea either, and prefer to use rejection
as a way to justify exclusion; while including secular nontheists in salvation is disturbing.

As long as someone believes there is a difference between justice and injustice,
and one brings peace and the other causes suffering:
That is enough to discuss the meaning in the Bible and
argue over how ARE we, as collective humanity, ever going to realize justice and peace if humans are selfish, greedy and constantly at war?

Same message of seeking Truth Justice and Peace,
regardless if we use everyday secular language or Biblical teachings,
even if people disagree and argue over the real meaning or history.

For convenience of sharing online, I summarized in 250 words
"How to Explain the Bible without Reading it"

Which also explains "How to Explain the Bible to an Atheist" who thinks it's false.
Arguing over the Bible doesn't matter. The process of seeking truth for sake of justice and peace is the same for all humanity, whether Jew or Gentile. And we still need DIVINE FORGIVENESS in Christ Jesus to be able to reconcile and agree on God's Truth!
=========================


To explain the story of humanity summarized in the Bible, it helps to distinguish the difference between the Old and New Testaments, which determines if the rest will make sense at all, or even needs to be read.

In short, the Old Testament records the tragic history of living by the "letter of the law" and retributive justice, causing death and genocidal destruction by greed, while the New Testament paints a positive future for humanity, with renewed love of life and relationships by restorative justice, living by the "spirit of the law" for lasting peace.

The key difference between these paths is divine forgiveness, which breaks the cycle of retribution inherited from previous generations. Without forgiveness, suffering repeats, projected forward. However, by receiving forgiveness and correction, where Jesus represents the spiritual process of embracing equal justice, humanity finds liberation from past strife by establishing universal truth, justice, and peace on earth. Thus, human nature is destined to reach maturity in mind, body, and spirit, collectively symbolized by the Holy Trinity.

Salvation in Jesus represents restorative justice with mercy, bringing healing grace to end conflicts. Reconciling local laws among individuals with universal laws on a global scale fulfills both in perfect harmony or marriage between people, as the bride or church, united with the authority of law or state.

The story of sacrifice and redemption represents the spiritual process each individual experiences to grow in life -- through trials, failures, and recovery -- which drives humanity to reach spiritual understanding, wholeness, and peace.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

As long as someone believes there is a difference between justice and injustice,
and one brings peace and the other causes suffering:
That is enough to discuss the meaning in the Bible and
argue over how ARE we, as collective humanity, ever going to realize justice and peace if humans are selfish, greedy and constantly at war?

The topic of justice and forgiveness that leads to peace and harmony and injustice caused by sin can be a common denominator and open up a channel of discussion. But doesn't the atheistic use pain and suffering in the world for his argument against the existence of God.? "If there is a God, why is there so much pain and suffering ... why doesn't he stop it." The atheist also thinks the Bible is a myth, fabricated and changed by man. This apologetics approach is just as good as anything other than the WORD itself, but rarely has an effect. Faith comes by the Word ... but again, they think it is not authentic, so dismiss it. Yet, God's word is sharper than a two-edged sword and able to penetrate deep, behind their fortress or walls, doubts and excuses.
Atheists can understand justice and injustice and that forgiveness is golden because they experience it themselves. My father was an atheist and he thought the Golden Rule evolved from civilization! Yep, Man just figured it out, it just made sense and centuries to come to this conclusion! He would teach us the Golden Rule and that giving is better than receiving. I told him those principles came from Jesus. That caught him off guard. That is the Word and that hit him and planted a seed.
Gee what else could I do? What I did is study Evolution, read a few books, arguments against Evolution and wrote a 30 page compilation, an editorial report if you will of various experts on the subject, a summation. It really was a slam dunk, in their face kind of exposition of guesswork and fabrications, revealing it as a real house of cards. Most atheists adopt this view, but never really get into the so called "science" of it all. It is flawed all the way through. So I gave it to my Dad, and that was an eye opener as well. Still, no conversion yet, but at least it put doubts in his mind and he could no longer hold onto it so tightly. You gotta dismantle that junk - it helps. Later on in life, I wrote a book about Christianity with 570 of the most powerful scriptures. I gave it to him. It worked. Faith comes by the WORD. Two years before his death, his wife saw him praying on his knees! Thank you Lord.

 

[Emily Nghiem]

The topic of justice and forgiveness that leads to peace and harmony and injustice caused by sin can be a common denominator and open up a channel of discussion. But doesn't the atheistic use pain and suffering in the world for his argument against the existence of God.? "If there is a God, why is there so much pain and suffering ... why doesn't he stop it." The atheist also thinks the Bible is a myth, fabricated and changed by man. This apologetics approach is just as good as anything other than the WORD itself, but rarely has an effect. Faith comes by the Word ... but again, they think it is not authentic, so dismiss it. Yet, God's word is sharper than a two-edged sword and able to penetrate deep, behind their fortress or walls, doubts and excuses.
Atheists can understand justice and injustice and that forgiveness is golden because they experience it themselves. My father was an atheist and he thought the Golden Rule evolved from civilization! Yep, Man just figured it out, it just made sense and centuries to come to this conclusion! He would teach us the Golden Rule and that giving is better than receiving. I told him those principles came from Jesus. That caught him off guard. That is the Word and that hit him and planted a seed.
Gee what else could I do? What I did is study Evolution, read a few books, arguments against Evolution and wrote a 30 page compilation, an editorial report if you will of various experts on the subject, a summation. It really was a slam dunk, in their face kind of exposition of guesswork and fabrications, revealing it as a real house of cards. Most atheists adopt this view, but never really get into the so called "science" of it all. It is flawed all the way through. So I gave it to my Dad, and that was an eye opener as well. Still, no conversion yet, but at least it put doubts in his mind and he could no longer hold onto it so tightly. You gotta dismantle that junk - it helps. Later on in life, I wrote a book about Christianity with 570 of the most powerful scriptures. I gave it to him. It worked. Faith comes by the WORD. Two years before his death, his wife saw him praying on his knees! Thank you Lord.

Wow what a wonderful and intelligent response.
Your father was blessed to have you present in just the way he needed to hear it.
I would love to read your book. Maybe between your approach and the way I finally
understood what the Bible means, we could create a collection or series for others
to help communicate and share the meaning and message with friends, family and loved one.

Do you have PARABLES you have used to explain spiritual concepts?
Jesus used fishing and farming.

But I have a couple of "computer" parables that relate to today's ways of perceiving
how the mind and spirit works.

I wanted to write a book called JESUS FOR GENTILES
that collects the best ways used to share with people
coming from nontheist and secular mindsets.

What do you think? Could we start a channel or series
and just have testimonies shared that have WORKED
to help bridge these differences in thinking and understanding?
Between theistic mindsets and nontheists/secular thinkers?

Thank you so much!
Your wisdom and ways of sharing are a true blessing
and I hope many others will benefit from your outreach!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I would love to read your book

It is out of print, it didn't to well, probably because I chose the wrong title and the cover was quite frightening, "Hell ... If I Know". Why that title? Well, the nature of Hell was my initial focus, but then I figured I had to start the reader from the beginning as if they knew nothing about Christianity. So I spent the first half of the book on that. I was off work for a year - so got inspired 8-10 hours a day and exhausted myself. I think I still have bunch in a box. It was self published through Xulon Press, low budget, little advertising, no editor (a big mistake) and no platform or credentials to back it up. I leave to so many scholars out there now. If I contributed to the evangelism of only 1% of the readers, I would be happy.

Maybe between your approach and the way I finally
understood what the Bible means, we could create a collection or series for others
to help communicate and share the meaning and message with friends, family and loved one.

This is why a throw my two cents in on these forums - few listen though.

Do you have PARABLES you have used to explain spiritual concepts?

No. Like I said? I leave it up to the real scholars out there. Some of them know 100x what I do.

I wanted to write a book called JESUS FOR GENTILES
that collects the best ways used to share with people
coming from nontheist and secular mindsets.

Better hurry, I think the gentiles have reached close to their full number. Honestly, I think this pandemic was the "beginning of sorrows", if not the beggining of the Great Tribulation.
But by all means, occupy till he comes, till the last sheep is accounted for.
Again, commentary helps but faith comes by the Word, and if they are on His list, He will draw them somehow. If he could use me in some way, I'd be willing, we'll see. I learned long ago, I do not have a gift for evangelism and I have already spent many years sharing the gospel with atheists ( and the sharing usually turns into a debate or arguments, and only two that I know of have been saved.

What do you think? Could we start a channel or series
and just have testimonies shared that have WORKED
to help bridge these differences in thinking and understanding?
Between theistic mindsets and nontheists/secular thinkers?

Well, send me a personal message, we'll talk some more, get to know each other and see. ?

 

[Waiting on him]

Both Atheists and Christians would either be glad or dismayed to know
the same message can be taught from the Bible,
even if it is completely mythologized or people don't believe it.
Some Atheists WANT to debunk it altogether, and aren't happy with the idea
that the same universal truth exists whether or not we use the Bible to teach it.
Likewise, some Christians don't like this idea either, and prefer to use rejection
as a way to justify exclusion; while including secular nontheists in salvation is disturbing.

As long as someone believes there is a difference between justice and injustice,
and one brings peace and the other causes suffering:
That is enough to discuss the meaning in the Bible and
argue over how ARE we, as collective humanity, ever going to realize justice and peace if humans are selfish, greedy and constantly at war?

Same message of seeking Truth Justice and Peace,
regardless if we use everyday secular language or Biblical teachings,
even if people disagree and argue over the real meaning or history.

For convenience of sharing online, I summarized in 250 words
"How to Explain the Bible without Reading it"

Which also explains "How to Explain the Bible to an Atheist" who thinks it's false.
Arguing over the Bible doesn't matter. The process of seeking truth for sake of justice and peace is the same for all humanity, whether Jew or Gentile. And we still need DIVINE FORGIVENESS in Christ Jesus to be able to reconcile and agree on God's Truth!
=========================


To explain the story of humanity summarized in the Bible, it helps to distinguish the difference between the Old and New Testaments, which determines if the rest will make sense at all, or even needs to be read.

In short, the Old Testament records the tragic history of living by the "letter of the law" and retributive justice, causing death and genocidal destruction by greed, while the New Testament paints a positive future for humanity, with renewed love of life and relationships by restorative justice, living by the "spirit of the law" for lasting peace.

The key difference between these paths is divine forgiveness, which breaks the cycle of retribution inherited from previous generations. Without forgiveness, suffering repeats, projected forward. However, by receiving forgiveness and correction, where Jesus represents the spiritual process of embracing equal justice, humanity finds liberation from past strife by establishing universal truth, justice, and peace on earth. Thus, human nature is destined to reach maturity in mind, body, and spirit, collectively symbolized by the Holy Trinity.

Salvation in Jesus represents restorative justice with mercy, bringing healing grace to end conflicts. Reconciling local laws among individuals with universal laws on a global scale fulfills both in perfect harmony or marriage between people, as the bride or church, united with the authority of law or state.

The story of sacrifice and redemption represents the spiritual process each individual experiences to grow in life -- through trials, failures, and recovery -- which drives humanity to reach spiritual understanding, wholeness, and peace.

Okay, let’s say I come home one day and find my wife lying on the floor and there’s a man stabbing her, he sees me and runs outside I run him down tackle him and right before killing him I come to my senses and call the law. Two months go by the case comes to court, now the perp is found guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, court recesses for a break till the judge hands the verdict. Judge comes back into the courtroom sits and the room is silent. The judge then says. I am a righteous judge you plead guilty you’ve confessed your sin to me so I give you full pardon.

 

[Emily Nghiem]

Okay, let’s say I come home one day and find my wife lying on the floor and there’s a man stabbing her, he sees me and runs outside I run him down tackle him and right before killing him I come to my senses and call the law. Two months go by the case comes to court, now the perp is found guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, court recesses for a break till the judge hands the verdict. Judge comes back into the courtroom sits and the room is silent. The judge then says. I am a righteous judge you plead guilty you’ve confessed your sin to me so I give you full pardon.

The spiritual forgiveness of God does not require works for restitution because Grace is given freely for the asking.

For wrongs committed against neighbors, by natural laws of man, restitution and forgiveness of debts have conditions that need to be met to earn back equal status.

The person can still be forgiven and be in good standing with God.

Even though the same person may owe debts or damages to a neighbor for injuries and wrongs incurred on that level.

These two are not contradictory.

In fact, it is better to work them out harmoniously. I find it more effective to seek God's forgiveness for peace on spiritual levels first BEFORE seeking to settle terms for justice in real world relations second.

 

[Waiting on him]

The spiritual forgiveness of God does not require works for restitution because Grace is given freely for the asking.

Scri

The spiritual forgiveness of God does not require works for restitution because Grace is given freely for the asking.

For wrongs committed against neighbors, by natural laws of man, restitution and forgiveness of debts have conditions that need to be met to earn back equal status.

The person can still be forgiven and be in good standing with God.

Even though the same person may owe debts or damages to a neighbor for injuries and wrongs incurred on that level.

These two are not contradictory.

In fact, it is better to work them out harmoniously. I find it more effective to seek God's forgiveness for peace on spiritual levels first BEFORE seeking to settle terms for justice in real world relations second.

was the judge a righteous judge, in my opinion the only way he could be righteous is to execute judgement.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I have learnt not to bother with atheist on the subject, True atheist are not interested to bother in fact and it's not written for them anyway in fact and that's why they can not fathom it.
It's like taking to a idiot and they will only try and drag you down along with them and they will only totally miss interpret everything that you say.

I could not make much out of the Bible when I first read it from a young age, especially because it was in old English for one and I just was at a lose on points, my Pastor would take most literally, but in time because I was always seeking things came clearer to me when studding the Bible on my own, I would read it every night and when I gained more understanding with all the books of the Bible then it all came together as too what was being truly said and then from there on I looked into Latin and Hebrew and then things became even more clearer with the interpretation of why the English was worded as so.
When it comes to English or whatever, well such can sort of misses the mark somewhat when interpreting the message that's more in depth, you know my mum is Danish and will say jokes etc in Danish to me but when interpreting such into English such can miss the point totally of become stupid, but if you understand Danish even somewhat you may have a much better handle on the jokes and one is better served in knowing the culture of such people as to where they are coming from with such jokes. not to mention the era of the people.

On that point in the last say 5 years as I see modern new age comedy in Australia on TV that is all based on Political Correctness type derangement, well I see nothing at all funny in it at all, in fact I see it as a total insulting not to mention such is just total depravity that lowers all who stand sprucing such deranged filth, especially women sprucing such depravity that I feel ill. so what is that ? another totally different culture once again but it's English ! not to mention the English is bastardised on points that some words mean even the total opposite of what it was 20 years ago, so what in the hell chance that such a one could make out heads from tails of the Bible, let alone all the bastardised ones that have come about that I can see clearly miss the point outright and is made up by one who has no idea if not outright the work of Satanic intent.

One may need to study the Bible for 20 years to really have a handle on such in depth, now most people do not read like I did 6hrs a day until I could not see the words anymore and had to go to bed, tho I was so eager, What a Book ! it's amazing you can never get bored reading it at all. it just comes alive as a well spring to enjoy. the best book of books by far, nothing comes close nothing at all ! but it takes much dedication from the beginning. but it all comes together like clock work and nothing is contradiction at all, if one thinks a point is such, that's only because they don't fathom such a point clearly.

 

[Emily Nghiem]

Scri

was the judge a righteous judge, in my opinion the only way he could be righteous is to execute judgement.

Dear @Waiting on him
You do not mix the judge of spiritual process with the judge of political process.

The decision to forgive because the person agrees to receive forgivess is the spiritual process where asking is receiving.

The decisions to deal with physical damages consequences and restitution for physical murder are under natural laws that require works to restore equity and good faith relations BETWEEN NEIGHBORS affected by crimes in the real world.

The judgment you described works for the spiritual part, but is not complete if you mean to address the physical world process that is not explained here but left out.

It only describes the spiritual part of the process, but by that process, once we ask and pray for God's help with repentance and forgiveness, yes God gives forgiveness AS WE Forgive others.

In your example if it isn't clear if the person forgives or not, then how much forgiveness or how long it takes to receive God's forgiveness can also vary.

But generally yes, as long as we ask, we shall receive.

 

[Emily Nghiem]

It is out of print, it didn't to well, probably because I chose the wrong title and the cover was quite frightening, "Hell ... If I Know". Why that title? Well, the nature of Hell was my initial focus, but then I figured I had to start the reader from the beginning as if they knew nothing about Christianity. So I spent the first half of the book on that. I was off work for a year - so got inspired 8-10 hours a day and exhausted myself. I think I still have bunch in a box. It was self published through Xulon Press, low budget, little advertising, no editor (a big mistake) and no platform or credentials to back it up. I leave to so many scholars out there now. If I contributed to the evangelism of only 1% of the readers, I would be happy.

This is why a throw my two cents in on these forums - few listen though.

No. Like I said? I leave it up to the real scholars out there. Some of them know 100x what I do.


Better hurry, I think the gentiles have reached close to their full number. Honestly, I think this pandemic was the "beginning of sorrows", if not the beggining of the Great Tribulation.
But by all means, occupy till he comes, till the last sheep is accounted for.
Again, commentary helps but faith comes by the Word, and if they are on His list, He will draw them somehow. If he could use me in some way, I'd be willing, we'll see. I learned long ago, I do not have a gift for evangelism and I have already spent many years sharing the gospel with atheists ( and the sharing usually turns into a debate or arguments, and only two that I know of have been saved.


Well, send me a personal message, we'll talk some more, get to know each other and see. ?

Thanks @Ronald David Bruno
Can you describe what you see happening with the fullness of the gentiles coming out near the end?
I think it has to do with Jesus fulfilling the natural laws and uniting the secular followers. So we have both church unity and state unity coming together in Christ Jesus as Lord or Authority of Law over both.

@theefaith Do you see the Catholic church authority playing an instrumental role in uniting people in Christ across church and state?

What does it mean for the fullness of the Gentiles to be brought forth? Can we please pray for wisdom and guidance on this?

Thank you @Ronald David Bruno
I will PM you and want to follow up on your writing and books that can come from this.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Can you describe what you see happening with the fullness of the gentiles

"For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.” Romans 11:25-27

Just prior to last trumpet (which I believe is the 7th), the gentiles ( in this chapter context it is the Church) will reach their full number, all who are written in the Book of Life down to the last Christian. Then the rapture/ resurrection will occur and the Church will be translated, given knew eternal bodies.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

"For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.” Romans 11:25-27

Just prior to last trumpet (which I believe is the 7th), the gentiles ( in this chapter context it is the Church) will reach their full number, all who are written in the Book of Life down to the last Christian. Then the rapture/ resurrection will occur and the Church will be translated, given knew eternal bodies.

Blindness of Israel ? who were blind when Jesus came and who were blind after Jesus Christ went up to Heaven ?
Well there are ones who's eyes were clearly opened and Jesus calls such as them true Israelites, but as to the others who rejected the Christ, well they are not worthy of the Name Israel at all are they. for if they were they had eyes to see and ears to hear they would of known, so the fact remains that such a people who did reject Christ were not worthy of God at all but another. Satan in fact as Jesus said of them and their Father of lies who was a murderer from the beginning. Now who wanted him killed ! how can they be Israel (the servants of God) ? clearly they are not ! regardless.

Israel was saved in fact ! Jesus Christ is the King of Israel ! all who are truly born again serve him and they are Israel in fact, because who do they serve ? the King of Israel in fact, Jesus Christ !

The Deliverer, do you know who that is ? do you know what Zion means ?

Who takes away Sins ? Jesus Christ.
Who turns away ungodliness ? Jesus Christ.

The fullness of the Gentiles has come in ? well yes they do have to come in to Jesus Christ, so that all are as one under God and that means no more Jew or Gentile exist under the roof of Grace that is our Lord and Saviour.

So there is only one key point in all this and that's Jesus Christ in fact. the point of so called Jews is mute. only a un saved would entertain Jews, fact is they are lost and anyone who idolises such is lost in fact.
What have the so called Jews got that Jesus needs nothing ! they need him ! Are Christians at a lose somehow ? do we need them ? does Jesus need them ? is something missing in the message of Jesus ? No !

The only people who seek anything outside of Jesus Christ are clearly no truly born again in fact. they are seeking something other or adding to. such a one is of Satan if they add to and if they are seeking outside of Christ they are lost.

If you do not have 100% faith in Jesus Christ you are not truly born again.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Now who wanted him killed ! how can they be Israel (the servants of God) ? clearly they are not ! regardless.

Umm ... They were the branches that were cut off.

The fullness of the Gentiles has come in ? well yes they do have to come in to Jesus Christ, so that all are as one under God and that means no more Jew or Gentile exist under the roof of Grace that is our Lord and Saviour.

This is an arrogant and prideful response. Be careful! Those who curse Israel will be cursed, those who bless them will be blessed.
You have adopted Replacement theology which is in error.

So there is only one key point in all this and that's Jesus Christ in fact. the point of so called Jews is mute. only a un saved would entertain Jews, fact is they are lost and anyone who idolises such is lost in fact.
What have the so called Jews got that Jesus needs nothing ! they need him ! Are Christians at a lose somehow ? do we need them ? does Jesus need them ? is something missing in the message of Jesus ? No !

Jesus is Lord and the source of salvation and their eyes will be opened and they will believe.
You need to read the chapter, study it. You lack understanding. God has a covenant with them, did you read that part? There is a clear distinction between the gentiles who were grafted in and Israel who will be later be grafted in. Then they will be brothers and sisters - nobody is idolizing them - but you are clearly displaying anti-Semitic remarks and attitudes.
He will save them, open their eyes when the numbers in the Church have reached their fullness.

If you do not have 100% faith in Jesus Christ you are not truly born again.

Faith is a gift. Some have weak faith and believe, and some have stronger faith. Obviously everyone's faith is not 100%.Even Abraham faltered in his faith, doubting God, even laughing that Sarah could possibly get pregnant at such an old age. I would like 100% faith, that would be pure and perfect though. Imagine that every task you approached in life. You did it with such confidence and never failed, certainty that never wavered. Do you have perfect faith? Wow, you should be able to raise the dead, heal the blind and move mountains. You must have great accomplishments, have led millions to the Lord. ... yes? Everything must have gone perfectly for you in life, fruitful. I think the Apostles , Church fathers, many of the historical theologians were close, some Popes, Martin Luther, Billy Graham ... 100% is Jesus.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Umm ... They were the branches that were cut off.

This is an arrogant and prideful response. Be careful! Those who curse Israel will be cursed, those who bless them will be blessed.
You have adopted Replacement theology which is in error.


Jesus is Lord and the source of salvation and their eyes will be opened and they will believe.
You need to read the chapter, study it. You lack understanding. God has a covenant with them, did you read that part? There is a clear distinction between the gentiles who were grafted in and Israel who will be later be grafted in. Then they will be brothers and sisters - nobody is idolizing them - but you are clearly displaying anti-Semitic remarks and attitudes.
He will save them, open their eyes when the numbers in the Church have reached their fullness.

Faith is a gift. Some have weak faith and believe, and some have stronger faith. Obviously everyone's faith is not 100%.Even Abraham faltered in his faith, doubting God, even laughing that Sarah could possibly get pregnant at such an old age. I would like 100% faith, that would be pure and perfect though. Imagine that every task you approached in life. You did it with such confidence and never failed, certainty that never wavered. Do you have perfect faith? Wow, you should be able to raise the dead, heal the blind and move mountains. You must have great accomplishments, have led millions to the Lord. ... yes? Everything must have gone perfectly for you in life, fruitful. I think the Apostles , Church fathers, many of the historical theologians were close, some Popes, Martin Luther, Billy Graham ... 100% is Jesus.

Thank you dear Bruno.

1/ well they were the leadership of the Jews in fact.

2/ I just happen to understand what is truly meant by the point of, Those who Curse Israel is in fact and why they who bless Israel will be blessed in fact but you sadly clearly don't understand such at all. how many times have I had dolts make such a dumb claim to me, I am a Israelite ! so by their stupid account they should be carful what they say to me ? They know that I am and call me a Jew to my face. but they have no idea as to the truth of that topic because they are truly ignorant of Jesus Christ because they are only of little faith the poor buggers are only religious dupes and not saved or they would understand that all who curse Jesus Christ is a curse in fact and all who bless Jesus Christ will be blessed in fact.
You see you are putting the cart in front of the horse in fact on that point.

3/ Yes many are truly idolising such because they are under delusions of this world because they are not truly born again. the Jews who followed back in Jesus day were born again in fact and did you know what they had faith in Jesus because they had faith in Holy Moses in fact and it was only when Jesus went to Heaven that they had 100% faith, now I ask you did St Paul not have 100% faith, I put it to you that he did and of St Stephen he had 100% faith as well because the Bible says so and I have 100% faith in Jesus Christ and I do not have any doubt at all in him their are no shadows of doubt because I am truly born again and I am in the Kingdom of God. fact is under Christ Jesus all are home and abiding in the Vine.
Look Jesus has came so such claims, that such will open their eyes is hogwash, why did he not back then ? no free will stands regardless you know so don't be suckered into such childish delusions. Jesus Christ Saves yes he does but for your free will.
I am not against flesh and blood, so claims of anti-Semitic are clearly sadly coming from such as only from a deranged worldly position on your part.
One should be carful who you try to curse, in fact did you not know that a worthy Christian does not curse anyone. but they who are a Curse are a curse indeed to God, because such are Godless in fact. One who rejects Jesus Christ is a curse that's fact.

5/ Well well well do you want me to answer that, well I have to a degree above. but should I response to nonsense.

 

[theefaith]

Thanks @Ronald David Bruno
Can you describe what you see happening with the fullness of the gentiles coming out near the end?
I think it has to do with Jesus fulfilling the natural laws and uniting the secular followers. So we have both church unity and state unity coming together in Christ Jesus as Lord or Authority of Law over both.

@theefaith Do you see the Catholic church authority playing an instrumental role in uniting people in Christ across church and state?

What does it mean for the fullness of the Gentiles to be brought forth? Can we please pray for wisdom and guidance on this?

Thank you @Ronald David Bruno
I will PM you and want to follow up on your writing and books that can come from this.

No
The state has authority to govern civil society for peace and tranquility
The church is the new covenant body of Christ or spiritual society for the salvation of souls

 

[Emily Nghiem]

No
The state has authority to govern civil society for peace and tranquility
The church is the new covenant body of Christ or spiritual society for the salvation of souls

What about the Catholic practice and teaching of exorcism, deliverance and healing prayer as a method of curbing Criminal illness, addiction, abuse and violations?

And the Catholic beliefs against the death penalty and abortion?

If the liberal state allows taxpayers to fund executions and abortion, can't Catholic citizens and nonprofits demand rights by free exercise of religion, and public accommodations to include prolife creeds equally,
In order to set up Prolife clinics, schools and prison rehab programs based on Restorative Justice, restitution and rehab for criminal abuses, and preventative health and social care that doesn't promote any termination policies or beliefs in abortion or abortifacients, euthanasia/assisted suicide, or executions by the state.

Aren't some of these policy areas of the state relying on private sector citizens or nonprofits to ORGANIZE alternatives in order to successfully reform Unconstitutional policies and to set up solutions better run and funded by the free choice and beliefs of the people?

Wouldn't this take the Catholic leaders to help mobilize and counteract govt by establishing these better solutions?

Thanks @theefaith
I am glad you believe in separating the jurisdiction of state from church.
Can this be used to give citizens the choice to defund the death penalty and abortion, and get tax incentives for investing in clinics, similar to private schools teaching God and Bible based curricula, that provide both preventative care to reduce or eliminate abortion, and spiritual treatment, rehab and restitution programs to address criminal illness in ways that will reduce and prevent capital crimes by curing the root causes in the spirit and mind?

 

[theefaith]

What about the Catholic practice and teaching of exorcism, deliverance and healing prayer as a method of curbing Criminal illness, addiction, abuse and violations?

And the Catholic beliefs against the death penalty and abortion?

If the liberal state allows taxpayers to fund executions and abortion, can't Catholic citizens and nonprofits demand rights by free exercise of religion, and public accommodations to include prolife creeds equally,
In order to set up Prolife clinics, schools and prison rehab programs based on Restorative Justice, restitution and rehab for criminal abuses, and preventative health and social care that doesn't promote any termination policies or beliefs in abortion or abortifacients, euthanasia/assisted suicide, or executions by the state.

Aren't some of these policy areas of the state relying on private sector citizens or nonprofits to ORGANIZE alternatives in order to successfully reform Unconstitutional policies and to set up solutions better run and funded by the free choice and beliefs of the people?

Wouldn't this take the Catholic leaders to help mobilize and counteract govt by establishing these better solutions?

Thanks @theefaith
I am glad you believe in separating the jurisdiction of state from church.
Can this be used to give citizens the choice to defund the death penalty and abortion, and get tax incentives for investing in clinics, similar to private schools teaching God and Bible based curricula, that provide both preventative care to reduce or eliminate abortion, and spiritual treatment, rehab and restitution programs to address criminal illness in ways that will reduce and prevent capital crimes by curing the root causes in the spirit and mind?

even though they are two separate authorities I don’t approve separation of church and state, the state requires the church to be just and moral
And the church requires the state to freely proclaim the gospel and the practice of the true faith
Against all abortion and euthanasia
But not opposed to the death penalty

 

[Emily Nghiem]

even though they are two separate authorities I don’t approve separation of church and state, the state requires the church to be just and moral
And the church requires the state to freely proclaim the gospel and the practice of the true faith
Against all abortion and euthanasia
But not opposed to the death penalty

Thank you @theefaith
I also believe the choice of the death penalty should be kept on the books as an option and as a bargaining tool to compel convicted offenders to negotiate and cooperate with authorities to disclose all information needed to resolve cases.

That is why I believe the Catholic authorities and organizations opposed to executing the mentally ill should push instead to DEFUND the death penalty and argue for rights as Conscientious Objectors to get tax breaks or credits for imvesting in Christian alternative prison or rehab/restitution programs.

If Catholics can run separate adoption and foster programs because of religious beliefs, why not argue for OPTIONS to defund the costs of capital cases (as well as defund the costs of abortion, abortifacient birth control drugs, or fetus related medical research) so that THOSE citizens' taxes can be invested in Prolife Alternatives?

The advantage to this argument @theefaith
is a lot of the same liberals who keep forcing prochoice policies on prolife taxpayers ALSO want to get rid of the death penalty. But they keep arguing to BAN it because it is "racist" instead of arguing to defund it by EQUAL choice to invest taxmoney in preventative solutions.

If we tied the OPTION of defunding capital punishment to the OPTION of defunding abortion, then this might help convince them to defund abortion since they would get to defund the death penalty by the same arguments.

The people who still want to support executions should still be able to keep these options, as long as they agree to pay the costs. Then we could negotiate for taxpayers opposed to this to be able to save millions per case or billions statewide and invest in better alternatives such as Prolife clinics, teaching hospitals and schools with the money otherwise wasted on failed policies.

 

[OzSpen]

Both Atheists and Christians would either be glad or dismayed to know
the same message can be taught from the Bible,
even if it is completely mythologized or people don't believe it.
Some Atheists WANT to debunk it altogether, and aren't happy with the idea
that the same universal truth exists whether or not we use the Bible to teach it.
Likewise, some Christians don't like this idea either, and prefer to use rejection
as a way to justify exclusion; while including secular nontheists in salvation is disturbing.

As long as someone believes there is a difference between justice and injustice,
and one brings peace and the other causes suffering:
That is enough to discuss the meaning in the Bible and
argue over how ARE we, as collective humanity, ever going to realize justice and peace if humans are selfish, greedy and constantly at war?

Same message of seeking Truth Justice and Peace,
regardless if we use everyday secular language or Biblical teachings,
even if people disagree and argue over the real meaning or history.

For convenience of sharing online, I summarized in 250 words
"How to Explain the Bible without Reading it"

Which also explains "How to Explain the Bible to an Atheist" who thinks it's false.
Arguing over the Bible doesn't matter. The process of seeking truth for sake of justice and peace is the same for all humanity, whether Jew or Gentile. And we still need DIVINE FORGIVENESS in Christ Jesus to be able to reconcile and agree on God's Truth!
=========================


To explain the story of humanity summarized in the Bible, it helps to distinguish the difference between the Old and New Testaments, which determines if the rest will make sense at all, or even needs to be read.

In short, the Old Testament records the tragic history of living by the "letter of the law" and retributive justice, causing death and genocidal destruction by greed, while the New Testament paints a positive future for humanity, with renewed love of life and relationships by restorative justice, living by the "spirit of the law" for lasting peace.

The key difference between these paths is divine forgiveness, which breaks the cycle of retribution inherited from previous generations. Without forgiveness, suffering repeats, projected forward. However, by receiving forgiveness and correction, where Jesus represents the spiritual process of embracing equal justice, humanity finds liberation from past strife by establishing universal truth, justice, and peace on earth. Thus, human nature is destined to reach maturity in mind, body, and spirit, collectively symbolized by the Holy Trinity.

Salvation in Jesus represents restorative justice with mercy, bringing healing grace to end conflicts. Reconciling local laws among individuals with universal laws on a global scale fulfills both in perfect harmony or marriage between people, as the bride or church, united with the authority of law or state.

The story of sacrifice and redemption represents the spiritual process each individual experiences to grow in life -- through trials, failures, and recovery -- which drives humanity to reach spiritual understanding, wholeness, and peace.

I have dialogued with both atheists and ho-hum believers and found that both may not have ears open to want to discuss core eternal issues. How many hard-headed atheists have you had a meaningful discussion with?

I generally find them disinterested in spiritual matters except when provocative questions are asked. I ask (after the conversation has been going a bit): (1) Where will you be be 2 minutes after your last breath? (2) From where did you gain that information? (3) How reliable is it? (4) How do you know the reliability?

You could ask: "What do you think the Bible meant when it said: "The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever" (1 John 2:17). What is the Bible talking about?

These are a couple of my approaches.

Oz

 

[Emily Nghiem]

I have dialogued with both atheists and ho-hum believers and found that both may not have ears open to want to discuss core eternal issues. How many hard-headed atheists have you had a meaningful discussion with?

I generally find them disinterested in spiritual matters except when provocative questions are asked. I ask (after the conversation has been going a bit): (1) Where will you be be 2 minutes after your last breath? (2) From where did you gain that information? (3) How reliable is it? (4) How do you know the reliability?

You could ask: "What do you think the Bible meant when it said: "The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever" (1 John 2:17). What is the Bible talking about?

These are a couple of my approaches.

Oz

Hi @OzSpen
1. The most hard headed Atheists were on a religion forum where one of them agreed to the idea of scientific proof of Christian spiritual healing to distinguish it from false faith healing. While the other was okay with my universal approach of translating into secular terms, but didn't want this to become a new religion of judging people by and getting into the same dogma and division already over the trinity as a condition.

2. My Atheist friends in real life believe in the universal principles of Truth Justice and Peace. Two preferred Buddhist terms and teaching but have issues with Christians making it all about them and their group or denomination.

3. In general I find each person has their own connection with God or the Kingdom of God through Christ and may speak a different language.

Right now, my biggest issues are with Christian Anarchists who reject Govt the way Atheists reject God. They similarly distrust the way people will abuse God or Govt for evil and cannot seem to get past that.

I believe God creates us with certain limits or biases in our understanding that motivates us to organize in groups for a reason.