How To Know If Your Truly Saved

[bigape]

Hello again Templar81

Nice to hear from you again.

First you ask........

“Are you telling me you avoid doing good works?”

Before I answer that, look at this........
Romans 4:4-5
V.4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
V.5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Salvation, is a free gift, that MUST be accepted without trying to pay for it.
But once we are saved, good works are like fruit, that we will naturally produce.

Now, for the “kinds” of good works we should do, look at this........
2 Corinthians 3:18
“But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the Spirit of the Lord.”

The good works we do, should not be “our idea”(doing some religious thing that we think will make us more holy).
The good works we do, should be “the Lord’s idea”, by following the Spirit’s instructions.

This verse says........
“But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord,”
This glass(mirror), that is the glory of the Lord, is God’s Word(the Bible).

“are changed into the same image from glory to glory,”
As we study God’s Word, we will be changed, little by little, into the image of Christ.

“[even] as by the Spirit of the Lord.”
As we study the Bible, the Holy Spirit, will speak to our hearts, as to what the Lord wants us to do.

So........yes, I do good works, but only as the Lord leads me.
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Next you said.......

“Look those peopel who say LOrd Lord are denied Heaven because they were not Christians in life and faced with reality, that is to say the final judgement, they realise the truth but can do nothing aobut it as it is too late for them.”

I agree!
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You also said........

“If someone has Jesus in their heart and I mean truly in their heart then they won't go to Hell.”

I agree with that.
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Finally you said.......

“Now about this false Gospel, what are they reading if they're not getting it from the Bible? Gnostic Mark perhaps? Phillip? Thomas? Peter? Nicodemus? Mary Magdalain?”

This is a good question.
I would say, most of them are reading what ever a church puts up on that big screen at the front, that most Churches have these days.

Now I am not saying, that there is anything wrong with these big screens. But a lot of time, when you read a Bible passage they place on this screen, it is not an accurate reading of what the Bible actually says.

 

[Templar81]

A fair point Bigape I will admit but most of us can't read 1st century Greek, aramaic and ancient Hebrew so we have to amke do with a translation.

Please don't tell me the KJV is the definitive version, the language in it is so outdated that it is easy to see why people get the wrong idea. We tend to use the Good News Bible and occaisionally he King James at our church. For persobnal reading I like Gideons.

 

[Templar81]

You can dress it up with as many scriptural refereences you want but to go aroudn saying, "I'm saved and your not. is a terrible selfrightious attitude and is not becoming of a CHristian, it is more becoming of a Pharase. Remember the parable of the Pharase and the tax collector where the Tax collector was weeping for his sins and te Pharase said "thank you Lord for not making me like him."

Sk your Hellbound friends if they believe Jesus Christ came to save them and if they trust inhim and if the answer is yes then the fact they they deem good works neccessary is immaterial because they ahve the core belief. "All who believe in me shall not perish but ahve eternal life." These peopel believe while they are alive and are saved by God's loving grace through Christ's sacrifice. So those it applies to will not be the ones saying "Lord Lord," and being denied because they recognsied him and knew him in life where as those who don't who never were believers in life will see Christ on the day of judgement and they will be terrified and faced with the truth and with his overwhelming majesty they will say "Lord, Lord." because that would be the natural reaction. What I have just described is something that will happen at judgement, not something that we can use to denounce our fellow Christian brethren. If your concerend about tsomeone's spiritual welfare then talk to them but never ever be judgemental because you will loose them.

 

[John1]

Templar81

A fair point Bigape I will admit but most of us can't read 1st century Greek, aramaic and ancient Hebrew so we have to amke do with a translation.

I can!

Please don't tell me the KJV is the definitive version, the language in it is so outdated that it is easy to see why people get the wrong idea. We tend to use the Good News Bible and occasionally he King James at our church. For personal reading I like Gideons.

It's not the definitive version. The KJV is, by todays standard, the least among the texts. The latest archaeological and manuscript discoveries have given us new information on that time period.

Does BigApe belong to the KJV only cult?

NewGuy

 

[Templar81]

Ok! you can read them but who else here can. I'm capable of reading the Vulgate but I don't think I'd get much out of it.

 

[bigape]

Good morning Templar81

First of all, I have not said one word about myself at all.
(The Gospel has nothing to do with me, it has to do with Jesus.)

And who are you, to decided what is “becoming”, for a Christian?
Shouldn’t Christians be using Scriptural references to support their beliefs?

Also, Jesus never criticized the Pharisees for their adherence to Scripture
The Pharisees were rebuked by the Lord for their Hypocrisy.
Are you saying, that I am a hypocrite?
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Next you said........

“Sk your Hellbound friends if they believe Jesus Christ came to save them and if they trust inhim and if the answer is yes then the fact they they deem good works neccessary is immaterial because they ahve the core belief.”

My deep concern for people, only comes from what I know t be true..........
Galatians 2:16
“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”

You may not care too much, for what the Bible says, but the reason I reference it so much, is because it is our ONLY SOURCE OF TRUTH!
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Let me take a stab, at your next statements:
You said.......

“These peopel believe while they are alive and are saved by God's loving grace through Christ's sacrifice.
So those it applies to will not be the ones saying "Lord Lord," and being denied because they recognsied him and knew him in life...”

What you are saying, is “those who know the Lord”, will be safe.
But....the Bible says, knowing Him is NOTHING.
What is vitally important, is Him knowing you.......
Matthew 7:23
“And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

You see, these poor souls, thought that they were saved, because "they knew about Jesus":
But He didn't know them.
And it wasn't until it was too late, that they found out truth.
So I am telling them the truth now, while they can do something about it.

And what about “the iniquity”, that they are guilty of, according to the Lord?
This iniquity, was “Doing these good works, to try and get to heaven!?”
Trying to put God, over a barrel, and say “I have done these good works, now you have to let me in”!
This is iniquity!
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Next you said...........

“where as those who don't who never were believers in life will see Christ on the day of judgement and they will be terrified and faced with the truth and with his overwhelming majesty they will say "Lord, Lord."
because that would be the natural reaction. “

So you, never call Jesus “Lord”?
You think this is just something people will do, at the judgement.

The fact is, today billions of people call Jesus Lord, when He really isn’t their Lord.
I don’t have any idea who they are, but the Bible makes it clear, that they are out there.
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Finally you said........

“What I have just described is something that will happen at judgement, not something that we can use to denounce our fellow Christian brethren.
If your concerend about tsomeone's spiritual welfare then talk to them but never ever be judgemental because you will loose them.”

I have not denounced anybody.
And if someone reading this thread, is my Christian brother or sister, they will not be offended at these things; They will be rejoicing that the truth is being spoken.

You have just put your finger on it.
This is why, I use so many Scriptural references: So as not to be “judgmental”.

I am not saying these things, God is!
So if you have a problem with them, take it up with God.

 

[Templar81]

You just seem a little too quick to condemn other people.

What your saying is that not all believers will be saved, I;m not sure why. By believers I'm not talking just aobut people who know aobut Jesus but believe him to be Lord.

And of course I call Jeus Lord, but I do it now and at judgement I will call him lord and if it pleases him to have mercy on my poor soul and save me from the horrors that await the dammed then I will continue to call him lord. The point is I know him personally as Lord, so it stands to reason that he should know me, he is God afterall.

 

[Foreigner]

There will be those that have given their lives to Jesus but will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matt 24 warns about those that will be duped by false prophets and Matt 25 talks about the sheep and the goats.

Yes, the sheep and the goats refers to those who never knew Jesus, but it also refers to those who have given their lives to Jesus but did not do what was expected of a Christian.

 

[Templar81]

I'm not disuputing what yous aid but does that mean just believing is not enough?

 

[bigape]

I'm not disuputing what yous aid but does that mean just believing is not enough?

Undoubtedly it isn’t...........
James 2:19
“Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.”

 

[Templar81]

Ah but you ocne said in another thread htat if you are a true beliver then you will automatically do good works and will hate the very idea of sinning and when a believer sins they will be so disgusted with themselves that they would never do it again. If I believe that Jesus is my Lord and savior but do nothing else then I am not saved but is it enough if I believe and ask forgiveness for my sins or do I have to do something else? I thought grace was something we can't earn but is freely given but is it only given to some and not to others. Do some people have more chance of being saved than others just because God likes them better?

I'm not arguing with anyone here I'm just bouncing thes ideas around.

P.S. I'm sorry things got out of hand earlier.

 

[bigape]

Ah but you ocne said in another thread htat if you are a true beliver then you will automatically do good works and will hate the very idea of sinning and when a believer sins they will be so disgusted with themselves that they would never do it again. If I believe that Jesus is my Lord and savior but do nothing else then I am not saved but is it enough if I believe and ask forgiveness for my sins or do I have to do something else? I thought grace was something we can't earn but is freely given but is it only given to some and not to others. Do some people have more chance of being saved than others just because God likes them better?

I'm not arguing with anyone here I'm just bouncing thes ideas around.

P.S. I'm sorry things got out of hand earlier.

Hello again Templar81

You ask.......

“If I believe that Jesus is my Lord and savior but do nothing else then I am not saved but is it enough if I believe and ask forgiveness for my sins or do I have to do something else?”

Faith(believing), is like a pill.

If someone is laying in the hospital dying and the Dr, comes in and lays a pill on their tray, and says, “this pill will heal you”, and leaves the room,
they have a decision to make, based upon faith.

They believe the Dr., that the pill can save them, but they have to take it, for it to work.
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Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, must be exercised, and here is how we do it.....
Romans 10:13
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Asking Jesus to save you.

This is how I got saved.

 

[John1]

Templar81

I'm not arguing with anyone here I'm just bouncing these ideas around.

This is an Interesting thread.

Thanks for the read

NewGuy

 

[Anastacia]

Templar81,

If you want to remain in Jesus' love---then obey his commands. Just as Jesus have obeyed his Father's commands and remain in his love.


Take pleasure in the fear of God. I love God's Word and obeying Jesus' commands. It is life changing. And I am grateful God is patient!


See John 15:10.

 

[John1]

'Anastacia

If you want to remain in Jesus' love---then obey his commands. Just as Jesus have obeyed his Father's commands and remain in his love.

Ah the New Commandments or the Old Ones?

1 John 2:

[sup]7[/sup] Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard. [sup]8[/sup] Yet I am writing you a new command; its truth is seen in him and in you, because the darkness is passing and the true light is already shining.

Be Blessed

the NewGuy

 

[Anastacia]

'Anastacia



Ah the New Commandments or the Old Ones?

1 John 2:

[sup]7[/sup] Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard. [sup]8[/sup] Yet I am writing you a new command; its truth is seen in him and in you, because the darkness is passing and the true light is already shining.

Be Blessed

the NewGuy

We have from Jesus a New Covenant. The New Testament means "New Covenant." We have a lot of commands from Jesus. Not just one.

The New Covenant is the "perfect law."

But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it--he will be blessed in what he does. James 1:25


The old law is obsolete and passing away.

By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear. Hebrews 8:13



Jesus says “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

Matthew 5:17-22
The Fulfillment of the Law
[sup]17[/sup] “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. [sup]18[/sup] For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. [sup]19[/sup] Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [sup]20[/sup] For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Murder
[sup]21[/sup] “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ [sup]22[/sup] But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[sup][d][/sup] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.



Our righteousness has to surpass that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law. The Pharisees and teachers of the law know and obey the law "do not murder," we are not to murder and we are to suprass their righteousness by not even being angry with our brother.



Please read this passage....

2 Corinthians 3
[sup]7[/sup] Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, [sup]8[/sup] will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? [sup]9[/sup] If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! [sup]10[/sup] For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. [sup]11[/sup] And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

 

[John1]

We have from Jesus a New Covenant. The New Testament means "New Covenant." We have a lot of commands from Jesus. Not just one.

The New Covenant is the "perfect law."

But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it--he will be blessed in what he does. James 1:25


The old law is obsolete and passing away.

By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear. Hebrews 8:13



Jesus says “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

Matthew 5:17-22
The Fulfillment of the Law
[sup]17[/sup] “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. [sup]18[/sup] For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. [sup]19[/sup] Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [sup]20[/sup] For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Murder
[sup]21[/sup] “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ [sup]22[/sup] But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[sup][d][/sup] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.



Our righteousness has to surpass that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law. The Pharisees and teachers of the law know and obey the law "do not murder," we are not to murder and we are to suprass their righteousness by not even being angry with our brother.



Please read this passage....

2 Corinthians 3
[sup]7[/sup] Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, [sup]8[/sup] will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? [sup]9[/sup] If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! [sup]10[/sup] For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. [sup]11[/sup] And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Excellent Post

The NewGuy

 

[Anastacia]

Excellent Post

The NewGuy

Thank you, and God bless you again, Brother.

 

[bud02]

The messiah, who we know as Jesus, had to die as a sacrifice for the sins of all people. Every single person who God created as invisible thoughts were freed from their sinful flesh because of Jesus.

The law states that the penalty of sin is death so when a sinner dies in the flesh, he has paid the penalty in full and his created heart, mind and soul will go on within God until he receives a new immortal body to live in paradise.

This means that we're all guaranteed to be saved and live forever. The idea of hell is all it was, just an idea that the Babylonians made famous and used for the growth of their armies that were needed to covet the neighbors land and take them as prisoners to make slaves with.

Hell has no meaning to God but to Christians, it means being saved from it. What they're actually saved from when they die, is their flesh full of genetic sins, which is called Satan. When they die, this Satan dies with it and eventually, all the flesh will die during this age and Satan will be gone forever.

Mt 7:13-14

[sup][/sup]

[sup]13[/sup] “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. [sup]14[/sup] Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
You Will Know Them by Their Fruits

[sup]15[/sup] “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. [sup]16[/sup] You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? [sup]17[/sup] Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. [sup]18[/sup] A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. [sup]19[/sup] Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [sup]20[/sup] Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

The main reason Jesus died was to make it possible for the saints to be made sinless so they could receive the knowledge of God and learn they were created together with Jesus and the prophets. With this knowledge, God sent them out to preach the gospel to look for each other and speak his prophesies for him.

The sins of the flesh were very important for God to make everyone on earth a liar so that these saints, Jesus and prophets could operate with the truth. It's much easier to hear the truth amidst liars even when they were still sinning and lying with everyone else. The truth of the gospel could guide them with commands to get them to confess and repent of their sins so God could forgive them. The object was to get each saint perfectly sinless so their sinful delusion that blinded them was removed. Then they would experience the mind of God and know who they were.

We saints we're saved from our sinful flesh and gave God authority over them. So our flesh become totally obedient to God who makes us preach the gospel to everyone who will listen. We don't know who the chosen ones are so we keep preaching until we are killed in the flesh. The prophecy in Revelation 6: 9-11 shows that all us saints will be killed by the world who rejects us.

Romans 7:24-25


I don't want to discourage you but I don't completely agree with some of your statements.
The path to enlightenment "the narrow gate" can neither be found or traversed outside of divine enlightenment.

God says their sins I will remember no more. I can't find anything that indicates we will be in full control of our flesh, being a perfect man able to take every thought captive and never sin. Jer 31:34 - Gal 5:17-18 In fact I find much to the contrary.

 

[Anastacia]

My replies to The Word in pink.

The messiah, who we know as Jesus, had to die as a sacrifice for the sins of all people. Every single person who God created as invisible thoughts were freed from their sinful flesh because of Jesus.

Where do you get that?---people are "invisible thoughts"? Can you show scripture for this?

The law states that the penalty of sin is death so when a sinner dies in the flesh, he has paid the penalty in full and his created heart, mind and soul will go on within God until he receives a new immortal body to live in paradise.
The Bible says our spirits go to God. Where in the scriptures does it say what you say that after we die in the flesh, our "created heart, mind and soul will go on within God"? God's word is better than ours. Why don't you stay closer to God's word?


This means that we're all guaranteed to be saved and live forever. The idea of hell is all it was, just an idea that the Babylonians made famous and used for the growth of their armies that were needed to covet the neighbors land and take them as prisoners to make slaves with.

"Hell" is spoken of and taught in the Bible. You believe some man that the idea of hell is just an idea that the Babylonians made famous..... You don't believe the Bible is inerrant.


Hell has no meaning to God but to Christians, it means being saved from it. What they're actually saved from when they die, is their flesh full of genetic sins, which is called Satan. When they die, this Satan dies with it and eventually, all the flesh will die during this age and Satan will be gone forever.

You want to take hell out of the Bible, what else do you want to take out?


The main reason Jesus died was to make it possible for the saints to be made sinless so they could receive the knowledge of God and learn they were created together with Jesus and the prophets. With this knowledge, God sent them out to preach the gospel to look for each other and speak his prophesies for him.

The sins of the flesh were very important for God to make everyone on earth a liar so that these saints, Jesus and prophets could operate with the truth. It's much easier to hear the truth amidst liars even when they were still sinning and lying with everyone else. The truth of the gospel could guide them with commands to get them to confess and repent of their sins so God could forgive them. The object was to get each saint perfectly sinless so their sinful delusion that blinded them was removed. Then they would experience the mind of God and know who they were.

We saints we're saved from our sinful flesh and gave God authority over them. So our flesh become totally obedient to God who makes us preach the gospel to everyone who will listen. We don't know who the chosen ones are so we keep preaching until we are killed in the flesh. The prophecy in Revelation 6: 9-11 shows that all us saints will be killed by the world who rejects us.

Every one of you who reads this will be saved from your sinful flesh because of what Jesus did for all of us. Religions are not from God so don't listen to these sinners who have elevated themselves above you. They will die just like you will and the law will take care of their sinful flesh and be saved to live forever. God created us in his invisible image of thoughts so that's who we are for eternity but we need a physical body to experience our thoughts. After our bodies die in this age, we will remain in God as invisible thoughts until the earth changes into a beautiful garden named paradise. Then we all get new immortal bodies to live forever and ever. Never again will we die in the flesh because of genetic sins.
Where do you get "we need a physical body to experience our thoughts"? You are going beyond what is written. Sounds like you might not believe in the life of the spirit---that you believe when the physical body dies we are no longer alive in the spirit, that the spirit has no conscience? You deny the Bible being the inerrant word of God, that the Bible has false teachings, such as the place of hell especially.

You took parts of the Bible out to give us your own words, or some man's thoughts and beliefs. Trust in God who made the universe, that He can give us the Bible without big lies in it.