Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
It questions, is their salvation achieved by their ability to choose, or his ability to forgive?
How today’s Popular Gospel Dishonors God
- Thread starter Dave L
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People cannot see Christ in truth unless born again. So this happens before they can trust in him in any true sense. If they believe, it means Christ paid for their sins, so God already forgives us on that basis.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
What John's Epistle says about light and darkness is very searching...
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
There is no forgiveness without repentance.
What you're espousing is part of Calvinism.
There is no justification apart from Christ's atonement. And the Justified always repent. It's the nature of the New Birth to do so.
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” (1 John 3:9) (KJV 1900)
All of the Reformers were Augustinians, including Luther and Calvin.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
More like Misinformed belief, how can they believe when those who teach them have no confidence in God and walk in unbelief.
Calvin, Luther, and all the Reformers were Augustinians. They brought back the doctrine of total depravity affirmed at the Council of Ephesus in 431 to be the scriptural view of sin. The Catholics lost the doctrine and replaced it with free will.
Hello @Dave L,
* When I read your OP, my thoughts went to two passages of Scripture, Luke 9:49-50 and Philippians 1:15-19:
'And John answered and said,
"Master, we saw one casting out devils in Thy Name;
and we forbad him,
because he followeth not with us.
And Jesus said unto him,
"Forbid him not:
for he that is not against us is for us."'
(Luke 9:49-50)
'Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife;
and some also of good will:
The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely,
supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
But the other of love,
knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
What then?
notwithstanding, every way,
whether in pretence, or in truth,
Christ is preached;
and I therein do rejoice,
yea, and will rejoice.
For I know that this shall turn to my salvation
through your prayer,
and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,'
(Philippians 1:15-19)
* These came to mind, because I thought back to my own salvation, and the gospel which I heard, and was enabled by God's grace to believe. A 'seed' of faith, which took root and grew, and continues to grow as I continue to hear and believe the Word of God concerning His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ.
Praise God!
* I was a child, and my understanding was limited, but God began His work in me. I cannot remember the gospel message that I heard now, what it comprised of, but I know that I was made aware that I was a sinner, and that I needed salvation: but that God had provided the means whereby I could be saved; by the death and resurrection of His only begotton Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. That He had taken my sin upon Himself and died for me, that I might live.
As far as I can remember, Hell was not mentioned, but death: for the wages of sin is death;but I was assured also, that the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
* Yet we are warned of preachers that preach 'another Jesus', 'another Gospel' (which is no 'gospel' at all), and told that it is possible to receive, 'another spirit'. That we as believers can be beguiled, and corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus.
'But I fear, lest by any means,
as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty,
so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus,
whom we have not preached,
or if ye receive another spirit,
which ye have not received,
or another gospel,
which ye have not accepted,
ye might well bear with him.'
(2 Cor 11:3-4)
'I marvel that ye are so soon removed
from him that called you into the grace of Christ
unto another gospel: Which is not another;
but there be some that trouble you,
and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven,
preach any other gospel unto you
than that which we have preached unto you,
let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again,
If any man preach any other gospel unto you
than that ye have received,
let him be accursed.'
(Gal 1:6-9)
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Hello again, @Dave L,
I would question your last sentence: 'Followed by the gift of the Holy Spirit through repentance and baptism.' For salvation is complete the moment that we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and resurrection life assured us. The very entrance of the Gospel message into a heart made receptive for it's entry, brings the Holy spirit in the form of the new nature which is ours in Christ Jesus: for the Words of God are,'spirit' and 'life' to all who receive them.
* Repentance is a natural consequence of the work of the Holy Spirit wielding His 'sword', it is not anything of our doing.
* We are also identified with Christ, in His death, burial, quickening, resurrection and ascension to God's right hand (Ephesians 4:5), so why should we require anything further, in the form of a water baptism which was applicable only in a past dispensation?
* Are we not, 'Complete in Christ', and, 'Accepted in the Beloved'? Surely by suggesting that there is more required is to take away from the simplicity that we have in Christ Jesus.
* Are we not God's workmanship?
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
John 15:16 KJV
[16] Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
http://tbibl.es/6nir
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Luke 3:16 KJV
[16] John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Tecarta Bible PremiumMen baptized with water. God baptizes with fire.
Here's how it works according to Peter in Acts 2:38, (non Pentecostal version). First; faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit we have by grace enabling us to believe. But the Baptism in this Spirit we have is commensurate with repentance. The more we repent, the fuller of the Spirit we become. Walking in the Spirit = walking in repentance in thought and deed.
Hello @Waiting on him,
I appreciate your response, but would ask you to please explain yourself further.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
In my opinion water baptism is an outward sign of an inward faith. The only baptism that accomplished anything is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that is perpetualy experienced
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
The Council of Ephesus was a Catholic Council. Get your facts straight.
The Council Of Ephesus – 431 A.D. - Papal Encyclicals
It is not the Calvinistic understanding of total depravity and it does not negate Freewill.
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It is more complex than that.
As James said you have faith, while I show my faith by my works.
How do you know that 'C' is a Christian? We know by how they live, by there works, there obedience to Jesus and this is copied by the nonchristian into salvation by works.
The false gospel of works is linked to the false gospel of only believe/have faith.
We need to challenge our preachers to preach that faith in Jesus produces works prompted by Love and that this love for and of Jesus includes head knowledge, bible biased brains as Romans 12v1+2 puts it.
