How will we know the real Jesus from a false prophet?

[bbyrd009]

Perhaps you are correct Mark, but...I seem to separate the KOG and Jesus Christ as two separate issues...yes, the KOG is within us through the Holy Spirit but...aren't we speaking of Jesus return in the same manner He left? They saw Him with their physical eyes. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ok, He was "lifted up while they were looking on" and fwiw "blepo" is a quite unusual root to use for "saw," which i can fill in more later, gotta go work right now. Acts 1:9 Lexicon: And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

so i dunno ok, but i suggest that we are not so sure of what they may have seen

 

[Nancy]

ok, He was "lifted up while they were looking on" and fwiw "blepo" is a quite unusual root to use for "saw," which i can fill in more later, gotta go work right now. Acts 1:9 Lexicon: And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

I will read your link...have a good day at work and stay out of trouble!

 

[Nancy]

ok, He was "lifted up while they were looking on" and fwiw "blepo" is a quite unusual root to use for "saw," which i can fill in more later, gotta go work right now. Acts 1:9 Lexicon: And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

so i dunno ok, but i suggest that we are not so sure of what they may have seen

He was lifted up while they were looking βλεπόντων
(blepontōn) 991: to look (at)

What other word would best describe this then, if not the word blepontōn? --- "while they were looking" ...

 

[bbyrd009]

there are other roots for "see, saw," that i'll have to dig up, that would make more sense for an actual literal "seeing," whereas "blepo" is usually used for "comprehend" or something, i forget the argument right now

I will read your link...have a good day at work and stay out of trouble!

"why are you standing there looking up at the sky?" becomes rather problematic, eh? The answer would obv be "well, bc that is where we saw Him go up to" right? And also "you will see Him come down the same way you saw Him go up," iow when did they "see" Him come down?

 

[Nancy]

there are other roots for "see, saw," that i'll have to dig up, that would make more sense for an actual literal "seeing," whereas "blepo" is usually used for "comprehend" or something, i forget the argument right now

"why are you standing there looking up at the sky?" becomes rather problematic, eh? The answer would obv be "well, bc that is where we saw Him go up to" right? And also "you will see Him come down the same way you saw Him go up," iow when did they "see" Him come down?

They had to be "looking" at something in the sky, unless they were just bored and were daydreaming while looking at clouds . I just cannot get past the simple interp. of this verse. If they could have expected to see Him return as He left (same manner) I say it was that they saw Jesus being lifted up into the clouds so...as the Word says, He shall also come back on the clouds.

 

[bbyrd009]

HELPS Word-studies
991 blépō – properly, to see, be observant (watchful). 991 (blépō) suggests "to see something physical, with spiritual results (perception)." That is, it carries what is seen into the non-physical (immaterial) realm so a person can take the needed action (respond, beware, be alert).

 

[bbyrd009]

They had to be "looking" at something in the sky, unless they were just bored and were daydreaming while looking at clouds . I just cannot get past the simple interp. of this verse. If they could have expected to see Him return as He left (same manner) I say it was that they saw Jesus being lifted up into the clouds so...as the Word says, He shall also come back on the clouds.

ok, so when did they, specifically, see Him come down, as they were assured would happen?
They are all dead now right

 

[Nancy]

ok, so when did they, specifically, see Him come down, as they were assured would happen?
They are all dead now right

Well...good question. Only other thing comes to mind is that God takes us each in turn. Perhaps they did see exactly that when they died? Nothing to back that up, only an option?
Then again, this can get into differing dispensations too I s'pose then, I'll have to beg off, haha!

 

[Nancy]

HELPS Word-studies
991 blépō – properly, to see, be observant (watchful). 991 (blépō) suggests "to see something physical, with spiritual results (perception)." That is, it carries what is seen into the non-physical (immaterial) realm so a person can take the needed action (respond, beware, be alert).

Are you saying that this means to "see" in the spiritual realm?? Cause, it seems we are mixing the spiritual with the physical here...

 

[bbyrd009]

Are you saying that this means to "see" in the spiritual realm?? Cause, it seems we are mixing the spiritual with the physical here...

well, i'll hafta get home to find the study on that, but that does seem to be the point of "blepo" over the other choice(s) ya

 

[Nancy]

well, i'll hafta get home to find the study on that, but that does seem to be the point of "blepo" over the other choice(s) ya

Hmm, interesting but pretty confusing too

 

[bbyrd009]

Hmm, interesting but pretty confusing too

i would seek impressions over facts in this, and be open to new understanding; i do not know for a fact that Jesus is not going to literally appear in the "clouds," but seems to me that that goes against a lot of other Scripture. I dont think they were being intentionally ambiguous to deceive, but to include/bring along the Cult of Athena, "the virgin," and the other well-meaning worshippers, of Zeus and whatever?

 

[Nancy]

i would seek impressions over facts in this, and be open to new understanding; i do not know for a fact that Jesus is not going to literally appear in the "clouds," but seems to me that that goes against a lot of other Scripture. I dont think they were being intentionally ambiguous to deceive, but to include/bring along the Cult of Athena, "the virgin," and the other well-meaning worshippers, of Zeus and whatever?

"seems to me that that goes against a lot of other Scripture."
Could you list a few?

"but to include/bring along the Cult of Athena, "the virgin," and the other well-meaning worshippers, of Zeus and whatever?"

"I dont think they were being intentionally ambiguous to deceive,..."

Who do you mean by "they"?

 

[bbyrd009]

Strong's Greek: 2300. θεάομαι (theaomai) -- to behold, look upon

"seems to me that that goes against a lot of other Scripture."
Could you list a few?

ha well its hard to prove a negative right, but the syntax every eye rather than just saying "everyone" or even "all eyes" suggests that only those who have plucked out their "right eye" would see, plus Return to Me and I will return to you, plus "Jesus, returning" cannot be Quoted, exactly, plus the kingdom does not come by observation, and quite a few others, i'll list them as they occur to me. Anyway "blepo" is plain old "seeing" i guess, but the link above is used for the second "see" in "see Him come down the same way you saw Him go up," iow a diff root, for some pertinent reason, surely

Who do you mean by "they"?

the authors of the NT, who obv took pains--Apollos waters, the Zeus/Apollos exchange, et al, google has a list--to bring along what we now consider "cultists" or usually even worse, right, as we would now consider a Zeus worshipper a "pagan" basically eh. But "gods" were all they had back then, right

 

[bbyrd009]

it violates the body of Christ imo, which i guess a believer would just say "well jesus can be wherever he wants, in two places at once even" but spirit doesnt work like that, at least imo, this miracle-y thing that we imagine Yah does whenever He wants, a like a nose-wrinkle thing? Im just very skeptible of that one anyway. The authors were careful to construct this Body of Christ linguistically even; Joseph asked for Jesus' body but got His carcass instead (Mark)
it is a denial of the Body of Christ imo

plus Jesus already refused the literal crown, twice; and we call those who believe in a literal restoration (and a literal third temple) we call "Zionists." Prob there imo is that sellers arise in response to buyers, and after all Jesus is not required to fulfill zionists' wishes, in the event that they have misinterpreted. The manna obviously has not been eaten iow, ha you oughtta hear some of em you think we're bad lol, its like this and like that and like this, dont get me started

plus "Jesus" (Joshua) the most common male name then, "of Nazareth," a literal Nowhere, no longer xlates to "John Doe from Nowhere," which i am more particular to than "Jesus Christ Superstar" for a few reasons, worship Yah only and pick up your cross and follow Me which ya right, ima do all that if im already "saved," right

plus the specific mention of "clouds" struck me funny, even at age 14, along with the esoteric "every eye" rather than just "everyone," although i didnt...lightning didnt didnt really strike on that one til recently

also, rather than coming, appearing, or being revealed, spiritual things that cannot be seen with "two eyes," an account of a literal return that surely would have been perceived as ludicrous 20 years after the crucifixion, or certainly 50 years or so after, when those Standing There were near their end? I gotta believe if i was one i'd be staying in touch, right, gathering on anniversaries or whatever, prolly in the same spot even?

They were promised that they would see Him come down the same way they saw Him go up, right
look into the bleppo and the other, the second, "saw" there Strong's Greek: 2300. θεάομαι (theaomai) -- to behold, look upon so some statement is being made there too

but i guess mostly bc it annuls today: this is the day that Yah has made
see now we're looking for some--literally--pie in the sky thing tomorrow

 

[theophilus]

What makes you think that the AC will not come riding a white horse?
He is the great deceiver and an impostor...just some thoughts.

He will come riding a white horse.

Now I watched when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say with a voice like thunder, “Come!” And I looked, and behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer.
Revelation 6:1,2 ESV

The true church will be taken out of the world through the rapture and the false Christ will come and try to establish a false Millennium.

 

[Nancy]

He will come riding a white horse.

Now I watched when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say with a voice like thunder, “Come!” And I looked, and behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer.
Revelation 6:1,2 ESV

The true church will be taken out of the world through the rapture and the false Christ will come and try to establish a false Millennium.

Only thing I'm not a proponent (anymore) of a "pre trib rapture" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[bbyrd009]

more "tomorrow" faith arg, of course delivered with complete confidence right

"we changed our minds, the kingdom will come by observation"
"tomorrow is the day that the Lord has made"

he who says he knows, does not yet know as he ought

 

[Nancy]

more "tomorrow" faith arg, of course delivered with complete confidence right

"we changed our minds, the kingdom will come by observation"
"tomorrow is the day that the Lord has made"

he who says he knows, does not yet know as he ought

"he who says he knows, does not yet know as he ought"...and the rest of the verse...
But the man who loves God is known by God.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

They had to be "looking" at something in the sky, unless they were just bored and were daydreaming while looking at clouds . I just cannot get past the simple interp. of this verse. If they could have expected to see Him return as He left (same manner) I say it was that they saw Jesus being lifted up into the clouds so...as the Word says, He shall also come back on the clouds.

Clouds ? what is your perception of such ?
Clouds here represent his Majesty.
From the Hebrew perspective Clouds represent a meaning in every Cloud mentioned, not all Clouds are the same. in English clouds are seen as representing only one shallow childish perception in the blue sky above.
In the Air ? as to the Hebrew Biblical perception is relating to Spirit.
Ask any Atheist what do they think the Bible says as to air or the clouds and you will get a foolish typical shallow reply. oh the bible is claiming such as their perceptions ? well not at all.
When we in the Holy Spirit see and contact with his Majesty, is the Rapture. you are taken up in his Majesty = the Holy Spirit is in tune with his Majesty. so you are as one united in him. so you are Raptured into the Kingdom of God, you are outside of this world of deceptions. it all happens in a flash, you are suddenly in the Kingdom of God. just as it is with the great gulf that is between the two. it's a Spiritual concept of understanding.
It all comes together like a epiphany and you are not under delusions anymore. you are then in the Kingdom of God "with" all the Saints as one ! united ! now then you are then on a mission from God ? that comes from the Holy Spirit, not mans works for you know what that truly represents, Satan.
Raptured "up" to the Kingdom of God to see his Majesty "in the Holy Spirit".