I forward what martin says. You are assuming the light took 170,000 years to get to point B from point A because at present they are indeed 170,000 light years apart but if light was present at the moment the heavens were stretched out then all the light and mass was stretched with it and hence it did not take 170,000 years for the light to travel from A to B and this would also explain redshift which stretched out light may very well appear red.if you add up all the generations from Christ back to Adam as Bishop Ussher did and then add 2000 from Christ till now then Adam was created roughly 6013 years ago.then if you take the creation week to be literal then the earth was 6 days old when Adam was created.Waht you are referring to as the earth being made void is not what genesis says happened.It states the earth was void and without form.This refers to the initial creation even.the mass of the planet had not yet been formed into a sphere and was without form.the water was there and so was the rock or earth but God had not yet formed them into a planet.Adam was the first man according to the Bible.There were none before him.If so I think God would have spelled this out for us.AlChristina;74155]So every Christian should take this mans word over Gods? Gen.1 In the beginning God created the [B][U]heavens and the earth[/U][/B]. So if you say the earth is 6000 years old from this verse then so must the heavens be you can not have it both ways ..If one is old or young they must both be ..so if you claim a young earth there is only one logical conclusion the heavens are also young therefore as I said said:
Hydroplate Theory
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Christina;74173]The secular world requires an uninterrupted billions year old earth But God says he made it become void therefore nothing existed for an unknown period of time So the secular world is wrong .... But equally wrong are the religions who insist on a young world they have as little if not less proof than the secular world ... Do you not see so [U]both sides of this men said:
Romans 1:28 *And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;I think this is waht so called science today is all about.They wish to remove God from their knowldge so they make up lies to deceive the rest of us.true science cannot prove or disprove God for he is above the cause and effect methods of scientific investigation.It's obvious you believe in God Christina,why not take him at his word?We do not need to try and mesh our story with liars who would seek to make void the word of God.I much prefer to being thought a fool by these types then to spit in Gods face and call him a liar.Now I have a theory to help explain how he did it though I never doubted that he was the one who did it.The actual creation event I believe to be inexplicable to us but the flood and everything thereafter is there for us to ponder and the outline is already given,all we need to do is fill in the fine points.Al
manumuskin,I agree with you. i have not read your study online, but i think the Lord is trying to reach people in any way can. The scientific community wants facts that they can prove; perhaps this theory will help some seekers to be able to just take the Lord's Word as He said it---He created the earth and all that was therein. He created Adam and Eve. And because men's imaginations were only evil, continually, He destroyed the whole earth and Noah and His family were the only humans left. As a scientist, this takes a lot of faith, but sounds to me like you are on the right track. I support you in your seeking to prove His Word by the things that are around us, the natural earth. For these are the shadow of the spiritual, the things to come. But there is no end to the books written and much study is a weariness of the flesh. Don't be discouraged by those who wrestle with the scriptures. The just shall live by faith. Keep you eyes on Jesus. He will reveal what is important for you know. If it be in your research, or the scriptures, or a word from a Christian friend. The mysteries of the Lord will only be revealed when we shall see Him, and be like Him and know all things on that Last Day. In Him,limbo
Limbo,Thanks for the encouragement.I took the hydroplate theory to a science forum (secular) and was booed and hissed off the stage.No sound proof against it mind you but was scorned and ridiculed nonetheless.I never expected that here,seems many christians as well feel they have to go along with old earth theories to try and placate the Darwinists.I used to be the same way until i realized this wasn't about science at all but about one theology against another,both the antithesis of the other.There is no placating them,you either fight or give up and give in.I decided to take Jobs adviceJob 12:7 *But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:8 *Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.9 *Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this?10 *In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.I think Walt Brown has given me a few answers I've been looking for and I'm sure he has taken his boos and hisses too.Hope you enjoy the online book.I read it there first and then bought it because it's more comfortable to sit down with a book then sit in fron of the screen that long.It is quite a large book.al
Martin,have you gotten through much of the book yet?Brown usually puts out a new edition every novemeber.don't know if he has one coming this fall or not.he has an unfinished chapter he's been working on which I believe is about atmoc dating methods.Al
Manumuskin,Thanks for the verses of Job. And there is also one verse, sorry i don't have the exact chpt and verse, that says Job held his tongue and repented before God, because God was just and righteous in all that He did. BY FAITH, job was justified before God. Why weren't Jobs comforters justified in their assumption that Job sinned? They were logically and scientifically correct......sin receives a recompense equal to it's degree, doesn't it? (even secular psychologists admit this, tho they use "scientific" terms) Man's little brain is not to be compared to God's, even if he was made in God's image. Thus we have those "comforters" who are forever trying to pin God down. Or those, like you mentioned, who want to take God out of our creation, the "pooh-pooh" scientists. I relish the day when those scientist who booed you off the stage get booed off the stage on Judgement Day! I won't read your book, though I am sure it is good--it's nice to see some broader minds in the scientific community. And Darwin, have you ever read his biography? Quite a ratty character! Can barely get my Bible in, and have done all the earth studies I need---they all affected me like Job, I pray to be justified by faith in God, His Works, and His Word, the Lord Jesus Christ.Your conclusion I completely agree with---and add why can't the world hear us, because they are not of us, but of the world. When the world speaketh, they hear them, because they are of the world. Keep up the good workIn Himlimbo
yes Limbo I learn the hydroplate theory to rebut modern day old earth psuedo science but it does no good.Those who wish to believe will and those who don't wish to won't.comes down to that proverb about leading a horse to water I guess.God told us that the mounatins skipped like ramsPsalms 114:1 *¶When Israel went out of Egypt, the house of Jacob from a people of strange language;2 *Judah was his sanctuary, and Israel his dominion.3 *The sea saw it, and fled: Jordan was driven back.4 *The mountains skipped like rams, and the little hills like lambs.5 *What ailed thee, O thou sea, that thou fleddest? thou Jordan, that thou wast driven back?6 *Ye mountains, that ye skipped like rams; and ye little hills, like lambs?7 *Tremble, thou earth, at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the God of Jacob;8 *Which turned the rock into a standing water, the flint into a fountain of waters.sounds like fibrillating hydroplates to me but then again these people actually think their descended from monkeys so there is really no talking to them
Al
AlAlI have now read most of the information , it was a lot of reading and I did not have a boring moment , nor did I come across anything that would not agree with my previous studies on creation science.In summary , I think Dr. Walt Brown has provided one of the best explanations (from a science perspective) of the mechanics of creation with the geological record.As far as the hydroplate theory that much of the floodwaters in Noah's day came from underground makes a lot of sense (to me) and flows well with the Genesis account of waters bursting forth from the deep. Even to this day , there is water under the surface of the earth and can be found everywhere.As far as Walt Brown's theory of how ocean trenches and earth's mountains were formed ....... well it tends to make partial sense to me . He gets deep into scientific explanations which I am not qualified to judge , but overall I am in agreement with the portions I can understand.Needless to say I will re-visit this site many more times to further my education. I appreciate the book is online and free and I think all of us should read it.Thanks again Al for bringing this to our attention. I have long been a fan of creation science and am surprised I had not come across this site before now.I expect to have more to say in the next week or so , I claim to be semi retired but you would never know it considering how busy I have been lately.Talk later , and thanks againMartin W.
Belive it or not I dont disagree with much you have said this book says I still dont agree we have a young earth and dont believe scipture says that at all.. But I do agree that some of Noahs floodwaters came from underground. I just think like all theroys of men there is much truth mixed with their errors
HA HA Manumuskin!! may the Lord Jesus Christ bless and keep you in your pilgrimage on this, His, earth. And may He protect you from all the fiery darts of the evil one with His Shield of Faith and Sword of Truth.Hide you in the Cleft of the Rock, and put you in His High Tower, Clothe you in the Full Armor of God and surround you with His Wall of Fire. Try "The Pilgrim's Progress" by Paul Bunyan. Children used to be required to read it (a very long time ago), but i bet you will find it some pretty interesting adult reading, and pretty up-to-date regarding the events you are going through now. Paul Bunyan(not he cartoon character) was a very real itinerate preacher in England in the 1400's who went to prison for his beliefs in the Lord. He wrote this book during that time. It really is quite brilliant in it's perceptions and very entertaining, well written.It might be a worthwhile diversion from your frustrations in this trial of your faith. Our Lord said "Many will come in my name, but be not deceived....."Be of Good Cheer, I have overcome the world" In Him,limbo
I attempted to read that book when I was about 14.Not because I had to but because I like to read and someone referred me to it.It beat me down.I could not get it but then again i was 14 and if it wasn't an identification guide on snakes or a book about the woods I wasn't much into it.I should try it again now that I am much much older.By the way i still love snakes and the woodslimbo;74336][COLOR=black][FONT=verdana]HA HA Manumuskin!![/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=verdana]may the Lord Jesus Christ bless and keep you in your pilgrimage on this said:
Al[quote name='Martin W.;74323]AlI have now read most of the information ' date=' it was a lot of reading and I did not have a boring moment , nor did I come across anything that would not agree with my previous studies on creation science.In summary , I think Dr. Walt Brown has provided one of the best explanations (from a science perspective) of the mechanics of creation with the geological record.As far as the hydroplate theory that much of the floodwaters in Noah's day came from underground makes a lot of sense (to me) and flows well with the Genesis account of waters bursting forth from the deep. Even to this day , there is water under the surface of the earth and can be found everywhere.As far as Walt Brown's theory of how ocean trenches and earth's mountains were formed ....... well it tends to make partial sense to me . He gets deep into scientific explanations which I am not qualified to judge , but overall I am in agreement with the portions I can understand.Needless to say I will re-visit this site many more times to further my education. I appreciate the book is online and free and I think all of us should read it.Thanks again Al for bringing this to our attention. I have long been a fan of creation science and am surprised I had not come across this site before now.I expect to have more to say in the next week or so , I claim to be semi retired but you would never know it considering how busy I have been lately.Talk later , and thanks againMartin W.[/QUOTE']I read the whole book online first which was really a pain to me.I'd rather bave a book where i can get comfortable so I bought it and have read the whole thing four times now.I've argued it with uniformitarian darwinists and have come to the conclusion there is no point.I present it to people that might find it interesting which I thought this board might when i found it by doing a search on something entirely different.I was shocked to find old earthers here.If the fossil layers can be explained by the great flood and the hydroplate theory then i really see no reason why an old earth need be invoked anyway.The huge distances in space in no way imply that space must be as old as it takes light to travel across it if light was created with space and stretched along with it.This does birng an unanswered question to my mind though.When the new heavens and earth are created does this mean a new univers or just a new earth and atmosphere? The universe we have would take an eternity to bring order to and colonize.Is that Gods plan or is the whole universe we have besdies our solar system a waste to be redone?If there are other races out there which I doubt they would'nt need a savior i presume so there would be no need of taking the Gospel to them so i fear we may be it and the whole universe will be ours to explore and populate.Now I'm going off the deep end into stuff we really can't know now but I am a born speculator at heart,in prophecy that is.never could stand land speculatorsthey always want to tear down my woods:-(Al
they always want to tear down my woods:-(AlManumuskin, how's your Pilgrim's Progress going?! Besides my Bible, i think it's my favorite book, right now anyway. It's actually an English classic as far as English prose goes, and i like the Orwellian "double-speak" quality of the characters, except here--they are actually what they are called---not the opposite. If you get a good copy, the footnotes will tell you what scripture is being refered to. It's not a wonder this book is not popular. It's hard to argue that "Mrs. Love-the-Flesh" doesn't love the flesh! Glad you still love the woods, don't know about snakes, though, i do respect them. The woods are some of the last of God's creation not destroyed by man, but few care. And most run to destroy them.But God says that He will destroy those who destroy the earth.God's blessing in your search for His Ways.God's speed on your pilgrimage!In Him,limbo
LimboI found a free online pdf download of the pilgrims progress.it will take me sometime to read it because I get tired much faster reading off the computer screen then if i had a book to sit down with.I have been thinking of getting one of thos new thing a ma jiggys that you can read e books on and carry them around and sit where it's comfortable.i do a lot of reading in my truck while momma shops and runs errands.about 20 minutes at a shot is all i can muster at the computer screen except when it came to the hydroplate book.i was glued to that till momma peeled my face off the monitorAl
AlAlJust an update , I continue to read this site , Thank you. What a wealth of good information for creation science. I manage to read at least a page or two a day. For anyone not familiar with the work of Walt Brown , here is the link to the index of his creation science information. It is free , easy to navigate and no clutter.http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/IntheBeginningTOC.htmlThis is a good example of how Christians should present themselves on the internet.We should all take lessons.Martin W.
Martin.I had been thinking about writing and asking if you had time to finish the book yet.I know he is working on an updated chapter on Radiometric Dating.I would love to see books put out on various areas including my own that would give a hydroplate interpretation of local geology,Brown does an excellent chapter on the Grand Canyon,I'd like to see a book of chapters on different areas in the USA or the rest of the world.I'd like to see an explanation of the area I live on,namely the coastal plain of southern NJ.We sit on one of the largest natural aquifers in the world called the "Cohansey Aquifer) it's 100 to over 300 ft of fine sugar sand composed of almost pure quartz.I'd like to know why it never cemented ito rock.I believe it was disintegrated out of the oroginal granite crust at the point of rupture over the mid atlantic ridge and sorted out from the other minerals and was so separated from all the limey minerals that there was no set up possible since I believe it to be lime which cements the particles together.We ave some of the purest water in the country due to this aquifers filtering ability.Uniformitarianism would have us believe all this sand got here by weathering off the proto appalachians over millions of years but the grains dug up from underground are very sharp and not weathered at all.The beach sand is weathered and great for kids sand boxes but when they sell the bags of sand mined from under ground for concrete or glass production they warn not to use it for sand boxes because it is microscopically sharp and harmful if inhaled or if it gets in the eyes or mucous membranes.If this sand was wethered off the mountains for millions of years each individual grain should be worm smooth and round and be good sandbox sand like what we have on the beaches,instead it appears to have been desolved from the parent rock and reburied quickly since it still preserves it's sharp crytal structure upon being mined from the depths for mainly glass production.Al
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