Hyper-Grace

[marks]

Romans 8 says nothing can remove us from God's hand. We are predestined all the way to glorification.

Another great passage!

Romans 8:28-31 KJV
28) And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30) Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31) What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Are we stronger than God?

No.

Having been predestinated by God, will it not come to pass? His predestination shall stand!

Much love!

 

[marks]

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Backsliders?

Israel did it. Millions have died in a state of apostasy.

There is no condemnation for those who REMAIN and PERSEVERE in Christ Jesus, or as the Israelites knew him, the I AM.
.

Romans 8:1-2 KJV
1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Much love!

 

[Curtis]

As I understand holiness, in my poor and limited way, it sure seems to me that for me to be in communion the Holy Creator, that's Hyper-Grace!

How salvation really works.


To be saved requires more than just believing in Jesus - we also must choose to repent of our sins as part of our conversion so that our sins are forgiven (Acts 3:19 - Acts 20:21) - but we can’t pre-repent of future sins - thus scripture is clear that only OLD sins and PAST sins are forgiven at salvation - not future sins:


2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was PURGED from his OLD SINS.


Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to bea propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PAST through the forbearance of God;


So hyper-grace doctrine which claims all sins: past, present, and future sins, are forgiven at salvation, is wrong.


Future sins must be repented of as we commit them, to be forgiven.


That’s why the apostle wrote:


1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


The apostle included himself, indicating he’s talking to believers, and not to the unconverted, as further shown by the fact he had just written THIS, before verse 9:


1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1Jn 1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


The blood of Jesus continuing to cleanse us from all sin, is conditional on continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, per the above.


Paul makes clear that after we have been saved, there is a continuing conflict between our wanting to walk in the flesh, (that wants us to live in sin)- and our desire to walk after the Holy Spirit that now dwells in us - and Paul warns that choosing to live in sins (works of the flesh), will keep us out of heaven:


Gal 5:16 ThisI say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.


Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


Gal 5:18 But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.


Gal 5:19 Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH are manifest, which are these;Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,


Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell YOU again, as I have also told youin time past, that they which DO such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.


Paul warns us over and over, that if we believers choose to walk after the flesh, we will die spiritually - but if we choose to walk after the spirit, we will have everlasting life:


Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded isDEATH, but to be spiritually minded isLIFE and peace.


Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind isENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Verse 8:7 above, having a carnal mind is ENMITY against God, meaning you actually become Gods ENEMY.


Will God let His enemies into heaven?


Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is ENMITY with God? whosoever therefore will be a FRIEND OF THE WORLD is the ENEMY of God.


The verse above says sexual sins and being worldly, makes you Gods ENEMY.


Will God welcome His enemies into heaven?


We are expected and required as believers, to live the most sinless life we can, and to repent when we know we’ve sinned.


Scripture clearly shows that continuing to remain in Christ is conditional on us 1) continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, and 2) continuing to walk after the spirit, instead of after the flesh.


In the two verses below, I put in parentheses the conditional part of these scriptures that are always left out by hyper-grace, OSAS teachers.


1Jn 1:7 But (IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light), we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


The blood of Jesus cleansing the believer is conditional on their choosing to continue to walk in the light, as He is in the light.


Next:

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, (who walk NOT AFTER THE FLESH, , but after the Spirit).


Having no condemnation, and remaining in Christ, is conditional upon continuing to walk after the Spirit, and not after the flesh.


And Paul warns us against being deceived about living in sin as a believer, when he wrote:


Gal 6:7 Be Not DECEIVED ; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man SOWETH,that shall he also REAP.


Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; BUT he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting


You reap everlasting life only if you sow to the spirit (walk after the Spirit, Romans 8:1) , but reap spiritual death if you sow to your flesh.


When we do occasionally sin, we must confess it, for God to forgive it. 1 John 1:9.


The lies of hyper grace are twofold: you don’t ever need to repent after salvation when you sin; and you can’t lose salvation.

 

[Stumpmaster]

When we do occasionally sin, we must confess it, for God to forgive it. 1 John 1:9.

Walking in darkness . . . thinking no need to confess . . . pretty soon no fellowship with God.

1Jn 1:5-10 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. (6) If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. (7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. (8) If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (10) If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[Grailhunter]

This is not that complex.
Salvation is solid and as Christians we can count on it. Christ's love and Grace is incredible.
But don't think that Christ is stupid! Don't think you can work the system against Him and He is not going to notice!
We all sin and forgiveness is available. It is a relationship with God. In that relationship Christ knows your mind and your heart.
If it is your intent to use Grace to sustain a sinful lifestyle...He is going to know that...and you are in for a big surprise.

 

[Behold]

Are you now promoting Hyper-grace (a false doctrine)? The Bible quotations are about grace, not Hyper-Grace. Perhaps you are not familiar with this insidious doctrine.

Marks is showing you that the Blood Of Jesus, which is the Grace of God, is an overpayment.
Its much more than is necessary, that been provided by God.
See, Jesus's Blood paid for the SIN OF THE WORLD.
And that is HYPER......in other words, much much MORE than is necessary then to just save you.

 

[Behold]

.
There is no condemnation for those who REMAIN and PERSEVERE in Christ Jesus, or as the Israelites knew him, the I AM.
.

There is no condemnation found "in Christ".
All the born again are "in Christ".

 

[Behold]

We do not "confess sin" so that God forgives us again.
So, if you are doing this, you have no understanding of Salvation.

 

[marks]

So hyper-grace doctrine which claims all sins: past, present, and future sins, are forgiven at salvation, is wrong.

I'd like to introduce you to God's reconciliation.

Romans 5:6-11 LITV
6) for we yet being without strength, in due time Christ died for ungodly ones.
7) For with difficulty one will die for a just one, (for perhaps one even dares to die for the sake of the good one),
8) but God commends His love to us in this, that we being yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9) Much more then, being justified now by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath through Him.
10) For if while being enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life;
11) and not only so, but also glorying in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we now received the reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:16-19 LITV
16) So as we now know no one according to flesh, but even if we have known Christ according to flesh, yet now we no longer know Him so.
17) So that if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new!
18) And all things are from God, the One having reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and having given to us the ministry of reconciliation,
19) as, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not charging their deviations to them, and having put the Word of reconciliation in us.

John 1:29 LITV
29) On the morrow, John sees Jesus coming toward him and said, Behold! The Lamb of God, taking away the sin of the world!

What is reconciliation? What is the implication that our reconciliation to God was brought about by Jesus, and not by us? Do didn't do it, what makes anyone think we can "undo it"? God purchased us with His Own blood, do you think you can overpower His ownership? That He doesn't intend to keep His purchased possession?

These verses tell us that Jesus carried away the sin of the world
That God reconciled the world to Himself, not counting their sins against them.
That even before we believed, repented, were born again, even before that, God had reconciled us to Him.
That we receive this reconciliation.
That having been reconciled to God even being His enemy, we will all the more be saved through Jesus' life, that is, resurrection.

Which sins are imputed against His children? Weren't they all taken away in Christ? Weren't we reconciled to God even before we confessed or repented of ANY of them? Didn't this all happen before we were even born? When all our sins were future?

Much love!

 

[Stumpmaster]

Which sins are imputed against His children? Weren't they all taken away in Christ? Weren't we reconciled to God even before we confessed or repented of ANY of them? Didn't this all happen before we were even born? When all our sins were future?

The sinless perfection brigade are as blind as the hypocritical Pharisees that Jesus rebuked. I was in a fellowship that became mired in the heresy that Christians are sinless and perfect and never need to confess, repent, or ask forgiveness of anyone for anything. What a wretched man their leading proponent was, arguing, swearing, throwing punches at those who disagreed, coming up with vile and false doctrines he preached from the pulpit, and imposing his personality and authority wherever he could . . . all the while claiming he was sinless and perfect.

The newly appointed leader of this fellowship, and his wife, paid me a special visit ostensibly to bring me in line with this insidious doctrine of sinless perfection which they wanted unanimous support for, but the absurdity of the situation soon became apparent with the revelation that if they thought I was sinless and perfect why were they trying to change my different point of view.

Mat 15:14 Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit."

 

[Curtis]

I'd like to introduce you to God's reconciliation.

Romans 5:6-11 LITV
6) for we yet being without strength, in due time Christ died for ungodly ones.
7) For with difficulty one will die for a just one, (for perhaps one even dares to die for the sake of the good one),
8) but God commends His love to us in this, that we being yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9) Much more then, being justified now by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath through Him.
10) For if while being enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life;
11) and not only so, but also glorying in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we now received the reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:16-19 LITV
16) So as we now know no one according to flesh, but even if we have known Christ according to flesh, yet now we no longer know Him so.
17) So that if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new!
18) And all things are from God, the One having reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and having given to us the ministry of reconciliation,
19) as, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not charging their deviations to them, and having put the Word of reconciliation in us.

John 1:29 LITV
29) On the morrow, John sees Jesus coming toward him and said, Behold! The Lamb of God, taking away the sin of the world!

What is reconciliation? What is the implication that our reconciliation to God was brought about by Jesus, and not by us? Do didn't do it, what makes anyone think we can "undo it"? God purchased us with His Own blood, do you think you can overpower His ownership? That He doesn't intend to keep His purchased possession?

These verses tell us that Jesus carried away the sin of the world
That God reconciled the world to Himself, not counting their sins against them.
That even before we believed, repented, were born again, even before that, God had reconciled us to Him.
That we receive this reconciliation.
That having been reconciled to God even being His enemy, we will all the more be saved through Jesus' life, that is, resurrection.

Which sins are imputed against His children? Weren't they all taken away in Christ? Weren't we reconciled to God even before we confessed or repented of ANY of them? Didn't this all happen before we were even born? When all our sins were future?

Much love!

One has to examine all scripture on a topic, not just our preferred ones.

Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, but it’s clear that His atonement of sin is onky applied to those who believe in Him, receive Him, John 1:12, and repent of their sins.

Only sins repented of are forgiven, and one can’t pre-repent of sins not yet committed, which is why only old sins, and sins that are past, are forgiven.

I outlined this and documented it from scripture earlier:

2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was PURGED from his OLD SINS.


Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PAST through the forbearance of God;

So hyper-grace doctrine which claims all sins: past, present, and future sins, are forgiven at salvation, is wrong.

Future sins must be repented of as we commit them, to be forgiven.

That’s why the apostle Paul wrote:

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The apostle included himself, indicating he’s talking to believers, and not to the unconverted, as further shown by the fact he had just written THIS, before verse 9:

1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1Jn 1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

The blood of Jesus continuing to cleanse us from all sin, is conditional on continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, per the above.

 

[Hemlock]

John - not Paul.

 

[Curtis]

The sinless perfection brigade are as blind as the hypocritical Pharisees that Jesus rebuked. I was in a fellowship that became mired in the heresy that Christians are sinless and perfect and never need to confess, repent, or ask forgiveness of anyone for anything. What a wretched man their leading proponent was, arguing, swearing, throwing punches at those who disagreed, coming up with vile and false doctrines he preached from the pulpit, and imposing his personality and authority wherever he could . . . all the while claiming he was sinless and perfect.

The newly appointed leader of this fellowship, and his wife, paid me a special visit ostensibly to bring me in line with this insidious doctrine of sinless perfection which they wanted unanimous support for, but the absurdity of the situation soon became apparent with the revelation that if they thought I was sinless and perfect why were they trying to change my different point of view.

Mat 15:14 Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit."

Some claim that the spirit is born again and sinless,

1 Corinthians 5
New International Version
hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

Romans 8 says nothing can remove us from God's hand. We are predestined all the way to glorification.

Yet Jesus can choose to drop them out of His hand, just like He vomits out of His mouth the lukewarm, and warns a church in Revelation that names can be blotted out of the book of life...

 

[Stumpmaster]

Some claim that the spirit is born again and sinless,

You may be thinking of this passage. These 10 verses support Paul's teachings that just because God's grace and forgiveness abound this is not a mandate to keep sinning. On the contrary, the Holy Spirit is never responsible for sin.

1Jn 3:1-10 Behold, what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knows us not, because it knew Him not. (2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see Him as he is. (3) And every man that has this hope in Him purifies himself, even as He is pure. (4) Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (5) And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin. (6) Whosoever abides in Him sins not: whosoever sins has not seen Him, neither known Him. (7) Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous. (8) He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. (9) Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (10) In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

 

[Amazed@grace]

For those who are not familiar with the false teaching of Hyper Grace, here is what they believe and teach (as indicated on other websites):

1. Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it. Hyper-grace teaching says that, when God looks at us, He sees only a holy and righteous people. The conclusion of hyper-grace teaching is that we are not bound by Jesus’ teaching, even as we are not under the Law; that believers are not responsible for their sin; and that anyone who disagrees is a pharisaical legalist. In short, hyper-grace teachers “pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality” (Jude 1:4) and flirt with antinomianism.

2. Hyper-grace rubs up against the teaching that there is no need for a moral law due to Jesus' sacrificial death and fulfillment of the Old Testament Law. This is called antinomianism and is directly refuted by Paul in Romans 6:1–2: "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

3. Preachers of hyper-grace doctrine discount the Old Testament and the Ten Commandments as irrelevant to New Testament believers. They even teach that Jesus’ words spoken before His resurrection are part of the Old Covenant and no longer applicable to born-again believers. But is this true?

4. Hyper-grace preachers also claim the Holy Spirit will never convict Christians of their sin. Mature Christians should recognize this fallacy right away. Every disciple of Christ has felt the overwhelming conviction of the Holy Spirit when he or she has sinned. Jesus calls the Holy Spirit “the Spirit of Truth” (John 15:26). Truth, by its very definition, will not tolerate anything false. When the Spirit of Truth abides in a believing heart (1 Corinthians 6:19), He brings conviction about anything that is not truth.

Hyper-grace teaching is a good example of mixing truth with error. An emphasis on the beauty and power of God’s grace is good, but some teachers are neglecting what Paul called the “whole counsel of God” (Acts 20:27). For example, it is true that Christians have been forgiven by God. But that doesn’t mean we never have to confess our sin. James 5:16 says, “Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.” If we are to confess our sins to each other, why would we not need to confess them to God, since every sin is ultimately a sin against God (Psalm 51:4)?

Also, 1 John 1:9 gives clear instruction to believers about confessing sin. It begins with the word if: “If we confess our sin, He is faithful and just to forgive our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” This is a cause/effect statement implying that we cannot have the second without the first. As blood-bought children of God, we do not continue to confess our sin in order to be saved from hell. We confess and repent in order to reestablish an intimate relationship with our Father. We are “positionally righteous” but “practically sinful.”

Hyper-grace teaches an outsized theology of God's grace that overshadows our need for confession of sin and repentance. Teachers of hyper-grace fail to note God's other attributes of holiness and His call for followers to be righteous. They teach that there is no need to deal with our sin since God has forgiven all our past, present, and future sin.

I can understand why what is defined there and labeled as grace hyper style would be condemned.
It conflates the truth of eternal forgiveness of sins, and salvation, with its precise contradiction after the fact.

I feel sorry for whenever I see a crucifix displayed anywhere at all.It reminds me of those who feel they have to repent again and again, all the days of their life. Thereby keeping my Lord nailed to that tree perpetually until the day they die. Because, they first believed letting the blood of that slain lamb that one time was actually created a license to sin.
Just like it doesn't say in God's word.