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Featured I am pondering . . . why . . .

Discussion in 'Christian Spirituality Forum' started by Pearl, Jan 16, 2020.

  1. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    I can understand why God would need to create a new earth but I am wondering why he would find the need to create a new heaven. I'm sure that somebody will know.
     
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  2. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    All that is manifest in the earth, is only a "created" "image" of what has occurred in heaven in God. It is all a revelation from God, of what occurred in God before the foundation of the world.

    Thus, as Jesus prayed "on earth as it is in heaven", what is revealed, is a cleansing within God, which is God adding to Himself what is good while eliminating what is evil.
     
  3. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    Not sure that answers my question as I don't understand your post but thanks.
     
  4. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Since there are three heavens, and God's Heaven has been, and always will be perfect, the two heavens which will be made new are the first heaven (atmospheric) and the second heaven (outer space).

    Both these heavens are presently polluted, materially and spiritually, therefore they will be cleansed with supernatural fire, and become the "New Heavens" which are associated with the New Earth. All existing heavenly bodies will disappear, and the New Jerusalem will be the only heavenly body giving light to the earth.
     
  5. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    Thank you
     
  6. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    I believe that currently sections of Heaven deal with the needs of people on the sinful earth. Once the world itself is purified after the Thousand Year Reign, parts of the Heaven will no longer be necessary. The "patterns" in the heavens were changed following Jesus' life. Some things in the Heavens will pass away later. That's my idea, anyway.
     
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  7. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    I was explaining the reason for new heavens...which is because the problem with the old heaven, is that evil had occurred there (which then was made manifest in the earth).
     
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  8. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the clarification.
     
  9. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    I didn't even have an idea but yours sounds like it might be right.
     
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  10. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    New Earth = Earth reborn. Made clean and without the Fall's blemish. It doesn't necessarily mean a literal new planet.
    I'm not sure what you're asking about "a new heaven".
     
  11. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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  12. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    Never considered the question before, so I haven't thought about it. But on hearing the question I do have some points to make and thus a theory:

    1. Matthew 11:12 says the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. This was so since John the Baptist and lasted "until now" (meaning when Jesus said so). Jesus goes on to mention that the Law and prophets were until John, which indicates there was a change with John. He was the last "prophet".

    The point here was that heaven (or the kingdom of...) Suffered violence, and it would need to be taken by force. Perhaps that would have something to do with why a new heaven is needed.

    2. Enoch111 indicated there are 3 heavens. No doubt from 2 Corinthians 12:2. I don't know why he proclaimed the first heaven to be atmospheric and the second outer space. But the third heaven is paradise (according to verse 4). Jesus said the thief on the cross would be with him in paradise (the 3rd heaven).

    As a side note, it never says there were only 3 heavens. Only that there was a man caught up in the 3rd. It doesn't mean it was the highest or higher than the first two, either.

    I don't have an answer as to what the first to were, nor what the 4th, 5th or others might be (if there are)... But clearly paradise was a place where saints go immediately after death. Not purgatory... But since the dead know nothing (Ecc 9:5)... Perhaps there is more and a need for a new heaven.

    3. If you are getting this need for a new heaven from Revelation 21, realize that the new heaven was identified:. New Jersusalem. Or, New Jerusalem ascending out of heaven. Perhaps the new heaven isn't New Jerusalem, but New Jerusalem comes down from it. New Jerusalem is our mother (Gal 4:26, Heb 12:22). It is the bride of Christ which is the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ is being perfected now.

    Now, how can I pull all this together? Not sure if I can! But going to the third heaven (paradise) is not the end... It's just progression. I can understand why it suffers violence because truth and faith must be contended for. There will either be only truth in paradise, or perhaps ignorance. Ignorance in that you no longer learn new information of God's plans after you die. Remember, the dead know nothing! Paul may know everything from until 65 AD bit nothing of what happened after it. Maybe he does from saints who died and joined him a minute ago. But not what happens right now. When the last fore ordained saint gets there, then he will know all, as will every saint.

    Then the fun begins!

    So in summary, the new heaven will occur when the entire body of Christ (his bride known as New Jerusalem) is perfected and completed. The earth will also be purged. We will all be in one mind and one Accord with God. It will not happen while we are all alive.

    How could it if there is a new heaven and Earth?

    Good heavens! I don't know if I've explained myself well! But perhaps I brought up a few scriptural points you can consider and draw from.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
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  13. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it could be summed up with a line from my favorite Hillsong song, "What a Beautiful Name":

    "You didn't want heaven without us, so Lord you brought heaven down".
     
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  14. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    Think of what it would take to eliminate pain, suffering and even Death itself.

    A Universe like that would need a completely new set of Physics with no Entropy and perhaps without the concept of Time itself... at least not as we know it anyhow.

    It would most likely exist in a higher dimension than our current Universe so that it would be compatible with the Glorified Body.
     
  15. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    I have yet to see Scripture that clearly states what you just wrote.
     
  16. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    You need not look for explicit statements. But you will see it all when you study the matter.
     
  17. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    In other words, no verses to back up a false assumption that has been misleading Believers for millennias. Pretty much what I thought you would write since I've been asking for proof for years now with no results.

    It's nothing personal against you Enoch111. These teachings are ubiquitous.

    I just don't get how almost every Christian on the planet blatantly accepts these lies about the Three Heavens without even bothering to double check whether they be True or not.

    Where is the integrity?

    It's simply parroted from one Church to another with no regard whatsoever as to how valid any of it is.

    Crazy.

    Anyhow, for those that care, the Three Heavens are thus...

    #1) Where God lives
    #2) Without (Macrocosm)
    #3) Within (Microcosm)


    And no, these aren't 'New Age' mumbo jumbo teachings. This comes directly from Scripture.

    The True interpretation is hidden because Satan knows it will reveal too much and empower the Christian exceedingly.

    Examples:

    Heaven #3 - Within (Microcosm)

    Luke 17:21
    "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you"


    And yes, the KJV has it right.

    Heaven #2 and #3 - Without and Within (Macrocosm/Microcosm)

    Luke 11:40
    "Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also?"


    Etc. Etc.

    Now read what Paul says and look at the words he uses!

    'In the body' (Heaven #3/Microcosm) and 'out of the body' (Heaven #2/Macrocosm)...

    2 Corinthians 12:2
    "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven"


    He's giving the secret away in the very verse itself that references the Third Heaven!
     
  18. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    I believe Paul and John both went to the same place. The Third Heaven.

    What is the Third Heaven? The Kingdom of God Within.

    Otherwise known as Paradise...

    2 Corinthians 12:4
    "How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter"


    What is Paradise? Abraham's Bosom...

    Luke 16:22
    "And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried"


    Literally... INSIDE ABRAHAM.

    What did they see inside of Abraham's Body?

    Twenty Four Elders: Ribs
    Throne: Heart
    Lamb: Blood in the Heart
    Seven Spirits: Breath in the Lungs


    Within!!!

    [​IMG]
     
  19. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Here are the three heavens, which are spirit:

    1 John 5:7
    For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

    1 John 5:8
    And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

    ...Father, Son/Word, and Holy Spirit. The third of which is the Holy Spirit. Paul was caught up in the spirit = the third heaven.

    The three are spirit, and are One.
     
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  20. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    There's no need for such fantasies. Nobody saw anything within Abraham's body.
     
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