I can't trust Christians anymore.

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Daniel Blogger

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So, I had written this online review of a church; but never posted, It mainly helped me get my thoughts out. I've thought many times that posting it would make me feel better. I really have no idea if it would or not. But it would certainly explain a lot. I want to stress there are so many issues besides this one, but at this point I just feel abused by most Christians; and that wouldn't be a problem if the secular world were treating me the same--but they're not. they're kinder, at that for me is a huge a problem. anyways, here's the review I never posted about that church:

It's been a long time since I've been to this church. I kept trying to think of why. There were a lot of things that happened, and we both played a part. I know that my actions certainly made the situation uncomfortable, there's no denying that. But I accepted that, and apologized, and as best as I could, accepted responsibility. The problem is that the pastor and his family did not take any responsibility. The pastor said my actions have consequences, the problem is that my actions were a consequence of his family's actions.
I served this church for 5 years, maintaining close friendships with many, including the pastor's family. I felt very close to the pastor's family, until one day, completely out of the blue, the pastor's family just ignored me. No discussion, no warning, no nothing. It was 100% complete abandonment. Then, in the midst of the abandonment, the pastor's son approached me to tell me I was barely tolerable.

This would lead to my first mental breakdown (long story short - Shizophrenic Bipolar), whereby I turned myself into the police, believing I had hurt them in someway. I said some pretty alarming things, no doubt, but in all of this, my concern as that I would rather sacrifice myself than to make them uncomfortable. So really, this is the only sticking point for their argument.

After a brief stay in the mental facility, I was advised to speak to the pastor by the assistant pastor. The assistant pastor said he does not think I offended the pastor's family. The pastor said the same...sort of. He said there's no animosity, and he doesn't feel slighted. So let me ask you, if I did nothing wrong, why in the world was I banned from Bible studies? His exact words were: "I can come to Main worship and Men's Breakfast." Now, I get the fact that Bible studies are smaller and there is the sense that things would be uncomfortable, but this seemed a bit too extreme to me.
I explained to the pastor that I felt like they didn't really want me there. He said, in these exact words, "Your feelings are not my responsibility," On the contrary, when you abandon someone without a word, and insult someone, their feelings are 100% your responsibility. We have a responsibility to each other, as Christians, to love one another in deed and truth, and understanding that your abandonment and your insults are spiritual murder are absolutely your responsibility.

Not only did he say that, but he also insisted I was welcome, and that they would treat me with kindness and respect. Then I would go home to find out his entire family had blocked me all over social media, which caused a great deal of confusion in my mind. I felt like I was receiving a million mixed signals.

A few weeks before this all happened, the pastor preached a message where he said something along the lines of, "If they knew this about me, could they still love me." It is true they saw a very messed up side of me. I don't blame them for being uncomfortable. But I wanted to believe, just once, that someone could see this very dark place of me, and say that they're still going to walk with me, and walk through it. Instead, I was shunned and ostracized, and the hard part to swallow is that the ostracism started just from me being annoying, not even from the dark place I had mentioned.

The pastor said we can't control what other people do, only how we respond. I suppose there is truth there that we can't control people, but I do sort of expect better from a pastor. He then said, "If someone does not want relationship, let them go, and embrace them when they come back," and also that their boundary was "Needing the space they need to process." Well, it's been 5 years, and I have given them tons of space. So now I have to say this was the pastor filling me with false hope.

What made this even more confusing, was that the pastor's family would also, years later, like my statuses on facebook, as if everything was just fine between us. It wasn't okay, certainly not in my eyes. There were a few people who reached out and told me they heard what had happened...and it became quite apparent that the story they got was very one-sided, of course with me having been cast as crazy.

I want to stress...I had minimal issues with other church members, and I love them dearly. They are some of the friendliest church members I have ever met, and I think they were caught in between a rock and a hard place regarding this situation. I even still love the pastor's family dearly in spite of everything that happened. I want to stress that I know I'm focusing on a few very painful months, but I also knew a really great side of the pastor's family for many years before that, too. I did feel like they were dedicated to helping me grow in my faith, I felt like they gave me a place to belong, which is why what happened was even so much more devastating. I also want to stress that they do have great relationships, so maybe your relationship with them will be better.
Dear drivenfuture,

I want to tell you that I sympathize with you wholeheartedly. For a very long time, I have been on the same side as you. I felt ostracized by those I loved. Even though on the outside they tried to hide their true feelings behind friendly smiles, there was no doubt that they were double-faced. What I really found surprising was that they were models for many when it came to the Christian life, and I also learned from them a lot about following Christ. I am not sure exactly what happened, but to say that there was a discrepancy between what they were teaching in years past and what they started practicing would not be a fair statement. In fact, what they started practicing was totally opposite than what they pretended to still believe. Because I depended heavily on them, however, I couldn’t say too much, but eventually I had to make a decision: either I was going to revisit the things I was taught and put God to the test to see what He can do, or I was going to forget everything that was important and start acting like them. Finally, I decided that I wanted to be different, and I started to act on what I believe. Through this whole thing, my son was the only one who supported me. I felt all alone. Not even my wife understood me, and whenever I was telling people that my mind was full of thoughts, they thought that I was spending too much time thinking about nonsense, when in fact thoughts were coming to my mind without me having to search for them. In fact, they were thoughts about being lonely on one hand, and being a good father and husband on the other hand. When put these two together, many worries come to mind. “How can I be a good father and husband when I am fighting an uphill battle all by myself?” With God’s help, I managed to get rid of these thoughts , and after all this time, I managed to prove to the rest of the world that I care deeply about my children and wife, although the rest of the world was angrier with me than ever seeing the enormous changes God has made in my life.

You said that the pastor!s family has helped you grow in faith. The best thing you can do at this point is to disregard the hurt they have caused to you as much as you can, and at the same time make an effort to remember all the things you have learned from them and put them into practice. Try to teach others the good things you have learned from them and others. This will show that you have a strong character and you care about those around you.

Regarding the pastor!s son, have you asked him where his feelings were coming from? In all the years you have known him, has he ever praised your dedication for your service in the church? Has he ever seen anything good in you? From the way you addressed the problem, I can tell you are extremely smart and people would like to be around tou as much as you like being around them. It is very possible that the pastor’s son has his own problems—very possibly with his father and other people around him—and it was not appropriate of him to say what he said to you. Do not let other people’s opinions destroy you. If before you liked people and people liked you, do not let one outburst destroy that. Despite the problems you are experiencing now, you are still the same person you were until now. Do not ever doubt that. You just need some godly people to help you through these problems.

As for the other Christians you were talking about, did they ever tell you directly that they they have something against you, or is it just an impression? Again, think of the things that helped you grow in your faith, and try to put them in practice so that everyone sees who you really are. Words can make you seem defensive, but actions are the best defense. No one can accuse you for doing something good. I am praying for you to get through this and that you get back to where you once were. Just don’t forget that you are the same person despite all of your problems, and if you need to remember who you are, ask those who love you; they will be able to tell you in a heartbeat.

Trust that God will work and will take care of your future.

God bless you.
 

Wrangler

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I am not sure exactly what happened, but to say that there was a (NOT) discrepancy between what they were teaching in years past and what they started practicing would not be a fair statement.
My ex-wife made a similar accusation against me. Just because I cannot always life up to my ideals does not mean that I don't strive for the ideals. And I think I am better off having these principles and live by them more than people who don't have such principles.

Sad fact of life, people aren't perfect. We are commanded to love them and forgive them anyway.


I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway.
Romans 7:19
 

Wrangler

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did they ever tell you directly that they they have something against you, or is it just an impression?
When my son died I realized another disappointing fact about people; they are doing all they can to keep it together with normal life stresses. That is, most people are not able to help much.

I learned this by taking people up on their offer in my desperate hour of letting them know "if there is anything I can do to help." They say this to check the box of virtue signaling, not that they actually expect to do anything helpful just because.

This sad part in my life brought me closer to God, who does not forsake us.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Also, I cannot fathom a God who forgives but refuses to restore relationship. That would be a cruel God who chooses who gets to be close and shuns the rest.
God will not force people against there will. If you have repented (if you did anything) and they refuse. You have done your part.. As an old saying goes. wipe the dust off your feet.. Its on them, not you.
 
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Wrangler

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God will not force people against there will. If you have repented (if you did anything) and they refuse. You have done your part.. As an old saying goes. wipe the dust off your feet.. Its on them, not you.
My Pastor has said changing one's social groups is one of the most difficult yet important things to do as your life transforms to be Christ-centered.

"You have done your part." It takes Spiritual maturity to accept that and move on if the other person in the relationship is letting issues hold them back from living life as Christ intended. No sense doing laps. We can agree to disagree agreeably. Saying I love you but cannot keep having this conversation, having and sticking to healthy boundaries is so liberating and empowering.
 

Daniel Blogger

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My Pastor has said changing one's social groups is one of the most difficult yet important things to do as your life transforms to be Christ-centered.

"You have done your part." It takes Spiritual maturity to accept that and move on if the other person in the relationship is letting issues hold them back from living life as Christ intended. No sense doing laps. We can agree to disagree agreeably. Saying I love you but cannot keep having this conversation, having and sticking to healthy boundaries is so liberating and empowering.
Changing social groups might help for a while, but this will not help you escape from the problem. If you are leaving a social group in which there are people you care about, your thoughts will turn towards that group long after leaving it. The best thing to do is to forgive them and find ways to show that you still care about them.
 
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Wrangler

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Changing social groups might help for a while, but this will not help you escape from the problem. If you are leaving a social group in which there are people you care about, your thoughts will turn towards that group long after leaving it. The best thing to do is to forgive them and find ways to show that you still care about them.
Not sure how you are defining the problem, then. Of course, forgive them, for we are commanded to do that.

ALthough it takes one to forgive and 2 to reconcile. It's fine to continue to show unbelievers that you care about them. However, rejecting Christ is not something we can reconcile. That IS an irreconcilable difference at a certain intimacy point in the relationship.
 

Daniel Blogger

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Not sure how you are defining the problem, then. Of course, forgive them, for we are commanded to do that.

ALthough it takes one to forgive and 2 to reconcile. It's fine to continue to show unbelievers that you care about them. However, rejecting Christ is not something we can reconcile. That IS an irreconcilable difference at a certain intimacy point in the relationship.
In the other hand, God did everything to reconcile us with Him. If we are to follow His example of love, we should not give up in showing love to those God loves.
 
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Daniel Blogger

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ALthough it takes one to forgive and 2 to reconcile. It's fine to continue to show unbelievers that you care about them. However, rejecting Christ is not something we can reconcile. That IS an irreconcilable difference at a certain intimacy point in the relationship.
Drivenfuture mentioned feeling like everyone turned their backs on him instead of showing interest in helping him, and after a while, he even felt apologetic for feeling abandoned. Feelings of abandonment don’t come when one turns his or her back on others, but when others turn their backs on that one person. Obviously, without the specifics, the situation can be interpreted freely, but it sounds as if Drivenfuture is crying out for help and nobody is listening. Not only is he crying out for help, but at the same time he is trying to show everyone that he does not want to leave the church. It sounds as if the church does not want reconciliation, and without knowing the details of the story, this sounds like the bigger problem.
 
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Wrangler

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Drivenfuture mentioned feeling like everyone turned their backs on him instead of showing interest in helping him, and after a while, he even felt apologetic for feeling abandoned. Feelings of abandonment don’t come when one turns his or her back on others, but when others turn their backs on that one person. Obviously, without the specifics, the situation can be interpreted freely, but it sounds as if Drivenfuture is crying out for help and nobody is listening. Not only is he crying out for help, but at the same time he is trying to show everyone that he does not want to leave the church. It sounds as if the church does not want reconciliation, and without knowing the details of the story, this sounds like the bigger problem.
Sounds like? Who is the center of our lives?
A. God
B. People who reject Christ?
C. People who imperfectly apply Christs commands?
 
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Daniel Blogger

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Who is the center of our lives?
A. God
B. People who reject Christ?
Not only details of the story are missing, but now it starts to sound hypothetical. In my initial comment to Drivenfuture I was saying that the best way to show feelings of sorrow and intent to reconcile is through actions which show that he still cares about the pastor’s family and church. Since he said that he already apologized, one step to reconciliation was already taken.

When I said that we must follow God’s example in love, I was referring to Ephesians 5:1, which applies to ALL Christians. ALL Christians MUST MAKE GOD the center of life.
 
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Wrangler

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Not only details of the story are missing, but now it starts to sound hypothetical.

The word is principled. I wrote a principled response. Why do you suppose the details of the OP story must be included with every post?

In my initial comment to Drivenfuture I was saying that the best way to show feelings of sorrow and intent to reconcile is through actions which show that he still cares about the pastor’s family and church.
It's not primarily about reconciliation but forgiveness.

We've already covered this ground. It takes one to forgive and 2 to reconcile. As I understand the story, the OP does not feel loved or cared about by the pastor’s family and church. While it may be praiseworthy to take additional action beyond forgiveness, it is not morally obligatory.

And here is where boundaries come in. We all are guilty of "doubling down" to try to reconcile, not wanting to admit the power to reconcile does not exclusively reside with us. He could simply take the direct approach; talk to the Pastor about his feelings.
 

Daniel Blogger

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The word is principled. I wrote a principled response. Why do you suppose the details of the OP story must be included with every post?


It's not primarily about reconciliation but forgiveness.

We've already covered this ground. It takes one to forgive and 2 to reconcile. As I understand the story, the OP does not feel loved or cared about by the pastor’s family and church. While it may be praiseworthy to take additional action beyond forgiveness, it is not morally obligatory.

And here is where boundaries come in. We all are guilty of "doubling down" to try to reconcile, not wanting to admit the power to reconcile does not exclusively reside with us. He could simply take the direct approach; talk to the Pastor about his feelings.
Reconciliation starts with forgiveness, and in my understanding, forgiveness is remembering without holding grudges rather than simply avoiding the issue. And if forgiving starts with a person asking for forgiveness—or at least it used to start this way—forgiveness and reconciliation require both parties involved. Yes, it is good for the one who was wronged to let go, but true forgiveness ends with the wrongdoer accepting it.

Second, I am not sure what you mean by “doubling down”.

Third, he said that he already talked to the pastor. It is clear that we have different beliefs on issues. Do we also have different understandings of the initial post?