I have my doubts that Catholicism is Christianity

[Dan Clarkston]

That's what Satan wants you to believe and say.

The Lord never instructed or led anybody to include mary as being involved in salvation not does the Lord teach this in His Word.

But satan works long and hard to get people to engage in idolatry

Jesus gave Paul "The Gospel" and all the doctrine for the Body of Christ".

So the other biblical writers were not involved in preaching the Gospel, and the Body of Christ is not involved either and it's all Paul 24/7... got it.

Matthew 28:19,20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Those that worship Paul call Jesus a liar.

It's really sad where these idolators will be spending eternity. Very sad indeed

 

[Dan Clarkston]

It's because of Mary that the Redeemer was brought into the world

Yep and after that she's no longer involved in any way.

which makes Her a Co-Redeemer.

One of satan's most favorite lies to claim mary or anybody else for that matter is on the same level as Jesus Christ.

Jesus shares His glory with no one, but the idolators don't know this since they have been blinded by doctrines of demons.

satan operates tirelessly at leading souls away from God

And the devil's servants are doing his biding claiming mary is equal with Jesus which is idolatry

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

The new Pope renounced the edict of Francis and reiterated marriage is between a man and a woman.

 

[Behold]

So the other biblical writers were not involved in preaching the Gospel, and the Body of Christ is not involved either and it's all Paul 24/7... got it.

You can't teach or preach what you dont know.
so you have to learn it.

Jesus gave Paul "the Gospel", and any other is : Galatians 1:8

Later, in Acts 15, Paul shared this Gospel with the Apostles.

Matthew 28:19,20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Your verse says to "make diciples".......it does not say to Preach the Gospel.

When we preach Paul's Gospel, and a sinner hears it, and believes.... = then they become born again, as a Son/Daughter of God and that is a lot more then just a "disciple".

So, your verse is the Catholic Cult verse, that they falsely use to try to prove that "water baptism" is Salvation.

Paul does not teach this......as Paul's Gospel is....>"Justification by Faith".....>"All who believe in Jesus, shall be saved"./.

Paul's Gospel has no water baptism in it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yup, and that's why people were fooled by preachers because they could not double check the Roman Catholic lies that were preached to them.

Yup - heretics like the Gnostics, Montanists, Arians - and later on, people like Wycliffe, Luther, Calvin and others, some 1500 years later.

Thank God Martin Luther came along and changed all that and a few more things.

Oh – he “changed” things alright when he invented Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide and other unbiblical 16th century abominations . . .

No - thank God that Jesus guaranteed that the gates of Hell wouldn’t prevail against His Church ()Matt. 16:18. Those of you who think they DID have a lack of faith in the promises of our Lord Jesus . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Actually, Satan wants people to join His cults.

He has a lot of these, he created, to choose from.

Here are a few of the more popular ones... designed by The Devil

MaryCult
Mormons
JW's
Calvinism
Islam
Scientology
Secularism
Paganism
Satanism

You forgot YOUR cult - "Paul-Worship".
I'll stick with Jesus . . .

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Jesus said this to the leaders of His Church.

and passed down to other leaders. It is Scripture and not some oral tradition. And it deals with church discipline and not doctrine.

Now YOU have to think here . . .

The Ealy Church didn’t have a Bible to read. As a matter of fact – until the 18th century – MOST people were functionally-illiterate and couldn’t read if they tried. On top pf that – Canon of Scripture wasn’t even declared until the 4th century.

At the time - there were MANY collections of Book in different communities - several that didn't amke the Canon. To make matters worse – Bibles weren’t even in print for another 1200 years after that.

2 Thess 2:15 puts Oral Tradition on the SAME ground as what was written.

Your first mistake is that tradition as spoken by Paul is teaching, and not some handed down oral tradition. If it was important enough to be remembered through the ages, it would have been written down and canonized in Scripture.

As for oral teachings- these were the teachings that became the Scripture as they were not written yet! That is not a blanket license to create new doctrines as time marched on.

There were several letters (not books) in communities that did not get canonized. That is because they were not considered important enough to be kept for all time as doctrinal authority.

Most people in the early centuries were literate in church. It wasn't until later that the dark ages came and peasant illiteracy was the planned norm.

The Aramaic word, “Kepha” is a “massive boulder” – not the small rock (Petros).
In the Greek – he is called Petros because it is a masculine noun. It would be laughable to refer to a man as “Petra”, whce is a feminie noun.

The Aramaic word, “Kepha” is a “massive boulder” – not the small rock (Petros).
In the Greek – he is called Petros because it is a masculine noun. It would be laughable to refer to a man as “Petra”, whce is a feminie noun.

Wrong! Kepha simply means a stone not a MASSIVE BOULDER. In greek its counterpart is petros. And you err about gender usage in Greek. Genders also refer to attributes of a nounj and not just gender. Study better.

The Bible is clear that Jesus put Peter in charge:

- Jesus singled out Peter when He gave him the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19)

- Jesus asked Peter and Peter alone to feed His lambs and tend His sheep (John 21:15-19)

I left the rest out. Not one of the passages declare Peter is in charge. Just because his name appears first means little. Someone had to be listed firstr and Peter was one of the first disciples.

Keys open doors and Peter was the first to preach to Jews, and Gentiles, thus opening the door for the gospel to go out.

James was the leader of the church in Jerusalem.

Jesus specifically prayed for Peter because He knew Peter was going to deny Him.

All the Apostles fed the sheep. And the three fold call to Peter was to answer Peters three fold denial of Jesus.

Sorry but He was not Pope. He was openly rebuked by Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Im already born again, "In Christ" as "one with God"......."seated in Heavenly places" as a "Heir of God, and a "joint Heir with Jesus".
Im the Temple of the Holy Spirit".

So, "Enjoy"

Then, let’s just hope that you endure to the end – lest you LOSE your secure position, my arrogant friend . . .

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46
"He who endures to the end will be saved"

Matthew 10:22
All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Your verse says to "make diciples".......it does not say to Preach the Gospel.

Matthew 28:19,20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus specifically said to go to the nations (that's all over the world for the slow among us) Teaching them to observe all things He had commanded them

Where you are confused is that Jesus continued His teaching ministry thru the Apostle Paul and His teaching thru Paul (by the Holy Spirit for the slow among us) does not contradict what Jesus taught.

If Paul contradicted Jesus then Paul is in hell right now and everything Paul wrote must be removed from the New Testament

Paul specifically spoke of not ignoring the Word of Jesus Christ for those that would make Paul in to an idol believing Paul is their lord and savior which is idolatry

1 Timothy 6:3-5
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

According to what the Lord Jesus said thru the one you make an idol out of... you be the one that is slow among us!

Hang in there sport, maybe one of these days you'll have the whole truth if you don't give up!

You forgot YOUR cult - "Paul-Worship".
I'll stick with Jesus . . .

I thought you were worshiping mary?

Did you get born again and start walking with Jesus instead?

That would be good news and a good move on your part!

 

[BreadOfLife]

and passed down to other leaders. It is Scripture and not some oral tradition. And it deals with church discipline and not doctrine.

Yup – passed down through Apostolic Succession.
This was the way it was done, since there was NO Canon of Scripture for the first 400 years.

Thanks for acknowledging that . . .

Your first mistake is that tradition as spoken by Paul is teaching, and not some handed down oral tradition. If it was important enough to be remembered through the ages, it would have been written down and canonized in Scripture.

As for oral teachings- these were the teachings that became the Scripture as they were not written yet! That is not a blanket license to create new doctrines as time marched on.

NOT necessarily.
John 21 says that Jesus did MANY things that weren’t written down before He ascended to the Father.

Do you honestly believe these things weren’t important??
EVERYTHING Jesus said and did was important.

There were several letters (not books) in communities that did not get canonized. That is because they were not considered important enough to be kept for all time as doctrinal authority.

Most people in the early centuries were literate in church. It wasn't until later that the dark ages came and peasant illiteracy was the planned norm.

WRONG.

Those “several Letters/Books” weren’t kept out of the Canon because they weren’t “important enough”. They were simply not considered to be insipired as the Scripture. They were and still ARE valuable resources with regard to Church teachings.

As for literacy in the Early Church – you are wrong, again.
Scholarly estimates are as low as 3% - to as high as 20%.

This means that 80-97% of the general public was functionally illiterate.

Wrong! Kepha simply means a stone not a MASSIVE BOULDER. In greek its counterpart is petros. And you err about gender usage in Greek. Genders also refer to attributes of a nounj and not just gender. Study better.

Spoken in ignorance of history and language - and just about EVERY scholar disagrees with you.
Jesus and the Apostles spoke Aramaic – NOT Greek . . .

R.T. France (Anglican)
“The feminine word for 'rock', 'petra', is necessarily changed to the masculine 'petros' (stone) to give a man's name, but the word-play is unmistakable (and in Aramaic would be even more so, as the same form 'kepha' would occur in both places). It is only Protestant overreaction to the Catholic claim .
(Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, [Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1985], vol. 1: Matthew, 254, 256)

Donald A. Carson (Baptist)
“…if it were not for Protestant reactions against extremes of Catholic interpretation, it is doubtful whether many would have taken 'rock' to be anything or anyone other than Peter . . . The Greek makes the distinction between 'petros' and 'petra' simply because it is trying to preserve the pun, and in Greek the feminine 'petra' could not very well serve as a masculine name . . . Had Matthew wanted to say no more than that Peter was a stone in contrast with Jesus the Rock, the more common word would have been 'lithos' ('stone' of almost any size).
(Expositor's Bible Commentary, [Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1984], vol. 8: Matthew, Mark, Luke (Matthew: D.A. Carson), 368)

I have dozens more examples - but they would take too much space . . .

I left the rest out. Not one of the passages declare Peter is in charge. Just because his name appears first means little. Someone had to be listed firstr and Peter was one of the first disciples.

You left them OUT because they al destroy your position in context . . .

Keys open doors and Peter was the first to preach to Jews, and Gentiles, thus opening the door for the gospel to go out.

James was the leader of the church in Jerusalem.

Until he was killed by Herod - then Clopas became the Bishop of Jerusalem - and Peter was in ROME . . .

Jesus specifically prayed for Peter because He knew Peter was going to deny Him.

They ALL ran – but He prayed for Peter ALONE to bring them back.
Why didn't Hw just pray for ALL of them?? He prayed for the LEADER . . .

All the Apostles fed the sheep. And the three fold call to Peter was to answer Peters three fold denial of Jesus.

Soooo – WHY didn’t Jesus also ask the others to feed His sheep? Why did Her take Peter aside and nobody else?

Sorry but He was not Pope. He was openly rebuked by Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles.

What’s the significance of that? He rebuked his behavior – not his theology.

St. Catherine of Siene convinced Pope Gregory XI that he was wrong and he returned to Rome. She didn’t correct his theology – just his behavior, like Paul and Peter . . .

 

[Athanasius377]

Yes, Jesus will do that for any believer....., not your city water supply baptismal pool.
You've confused the two,..... as a "water cult" has taught you to be confused.

Notice, "Jesus is the living water"......and that is not your baptism pool that needs to be warmed before you get in it.

So, when JESUS pours the water of cleansing of sin, = that is the "washing of regeneration".. = that is the SPIRIT being born again inside a BELIEVER....., by the Holy Spirit ..........and NEVER by WATER.



@BreadOfLife ..

unless you were hatched........the you were born after your mother's water broke, and you were in it....... and out you came all WET.

This is """"born of water"""......or the EARTH BIRTH = the Natural Child Birth of a Human.

And now if you want to go to heaven, you have to be.......BORN AGAIN....as you've already been BORN.... (ask your mother).
So, the 2nd BIRTHDAY.......is by the Holy Spirit.....not by water.. = but "by my Spirit sayeth the Lord".. and this is to be "born again"... which is the spiritual birth that creates the "new creation in Christ"..

Whoa, wait a minute. Are you really arguing against baptism? Are you a communicant in good standing and a regular attender at a local church? If so, what type of church?

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Are you really arguing against baptism?

Some people get baptized without getting born again and think they are saved.

 

[Behold]

Are you really arguing against baptism?

Not at all.

The argument is not against water baptism......its against "water cults" who Falsely teach that "water washes your sin away".. which is a Cross Rejecting Lie. = A blasphemous Lie against the "Blood Atonement" = that actually washes your sin away.

See, the MaryCult, created a false gospel......titled "Baptismal Regeneration".....or "BORN AGAIN....BY WATER".... as if WATER has the power to cause spiritual Birth and forgive sins.

So, this is a "doctrine of Devils", and they teach many of those.

 

[Behold]

Then, let’s just hope that you endure to the end – lest you LOSE your secure position, my arrogant friend . . .

Jesus is my "secure position".. as im "in Christ" so.......that is eternally secure.

Also, you have no idea what "endure to the end" means...

The end of What?

You dont know as you are just a deceived Parrot stuck on repeat , who tries to sell MaryCult Religion.

So, if you understood Matt 24, then you would have read also, where Jesus explained that the "enduring to the end".. .is located when you see the "abomination of desolation".....
See that?
That happens in the 2nd Half of the Great Tribulation.......so, that means that those who are in the Trib, and became Christians, have to "endure to the end" of the Great Trib.........

That is not the "body of Christ" the NT Church.

 

[Behold]

Here is more MaryCult ( Cross Denying) teaching that denies that Jesus is the ONLY WAY To GOD..and the Only Way to Heaven .. @BreadOfLife

"(Mary)Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the GIFTS of Eternal Salvation…. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."""""
-

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Here is more MaryCult ( Cross Denying)

And don't forget the cross dressing

 

[David Lamb]

Funny how you use idiotic buzzwords like "MaryCult" - whilke YOU yourself worship Paul . . .

I don't always agree with what Behold writes, but I have to say I cannot think of anything he has posted that suggests that he worships Paul.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I don't always agree with what Behold writes, but I have to say I cannot think of anything he has posted that suggests that he worships Paul.

I beg to differ – but when someone takes the words and writings of Paul and places the ABOVE those of Jesus – that is the worship of a false god. He calls Paul’s Gospel, “THE Gospel” and dismisses the rest of the New Testament.

He is the very reason that Peter wrote of Paul’s Letters:
2 Pet. 3:15-16
And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

 

[Behold]

I beg to differ – but when someone takes the words and writings of Paul and places the ABOVE those of Jesus –

When Paul told all real christians........"to be a follower of Me, as i follow Chirst" he is obviously not telling anyone to worship Him.

What he's explaining is that He is the prime example.. he is the author of the NT Church Doctrine........so, we are to "follow him"... because He is the example by Doctrine and Ministry that all Christians are to emulate........ = "follow ME... as i follow Christ"..

Never worry that a Christian is "bowing to Paul"..
But you will find hundreds and hundred of Thousands of Plastic Mary Statues, that deceived MaryCult member, "adore".....
-
-

-

 

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus is my "secure position".. as im "in Christ" so.......that is eternally secure.

And, as I’ve educated you repeatedly – the Word of God says that you CAN lose your security by your OWN doing . . .

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and FALL FROM YOUR SECURE POSITION.

Also, you have no idea what "endure to the end" means...
The end of What?

Why don’t YOU educate me, Einstein.

What do YOU think He meant by “enduring to the END”??

You dont know as you are just a deceived Parrot stuck on repeat , who tries to sell MaryCult Religion.

And there you go again with the same tired mantra about “MaryCult” manure.
Every time you LOSE an argument – it’s back to the same nonsense.

Now – if you could just stick to the TOPIC of the conversation instead of having to resort to your usual idiocy - that would be something. . .

So, if you understood Matt 24, then you would have read also, where Jesus explained that the "enduring to the end".. .is located when you see the "abomination of desolation".....
See that?
That happens in the 2nd Half of the Great Tribulation.......so, that means that those who are in the Trib, and became Christians, have to "endure to the end" of the Great Trib.........

That is not the "body of Christ" the NT Church.

This is something EVERYBDY has to do.
The rules don’t “magically change” for those living in the end times.

Matt. 24 is simply a stern warning to those living during the Tribulation of what we ALL must ALWAYS do – and that is to endure in faith or we will be LOST.