I have my doubts that Catholicism is Christianity

[Hiddenthings]

No, you need to understand the meanings of Koine Greek words.

As I said - check the context first before quoting the text.

Body & Mind

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Sabé

The opposite lesson is found in Ephesians 2

Ephesians 2:3 "Among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind."

Though created in God's image and likeness, these are beasts of the field who forfeited their true potential by choosing to live as mere animals. Paul refers to this as a "carnal minded" in Romans 6:6.

Once the mind is enlightened by the Spirit Word you are being cleansed and purified (sanctified) from within providing you cleanse yourself with the Word!

So now your quote makes more sense!

2 Corinthians 7:1 "Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit (mind), bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God."

Hope that helps

 

[Hiddenthings]

efinition: wind, air in motion, Jn. 3:8; breath, 2 Thess. 2:8; the substance spirit, Jn. 3:6; a spirit, spiritual being, Jn. 4:24; Acts 23:8, 9; Heb. 1:14; a bodiless spirit, specter, Lk. 24:37; a foul spirit, δαιμόνιον, Mt. 8:16; Lk. 10:20; spirit, as a vital principle, Jn. 6:63; 1 Cor. 15:45; the human spirit, the soul, Mt. 26:41; 27:50; Acts 7:59; 1 Cor. 7:34; Jas. 2:26; the spirit as the seat of thought and feeling, the mind, Mk. 8:12; Acts 19:21; spirit, mental frame, 1 Cor. 4:21; 1 Pet. 3:4; a characteristic spirit, an influential principle, Lk. 9:55; 1 Cor. 2:12; 2 Tim. 1:7; a pervading influence, Rom. 11:8; spirit, frame of mind, as distinguished from outward circumstances and action,

I'm positive you didn't read this!

Not only have you ignored the context of your own quote but also the content of your own definition.

There is an ignorance which is without excuse and you have shown it.

 

[Hiddenthings]

:Sigh:

Sighing won’t help you grasp the true context of a verse you've misunderstood (and misquoted). No matter how many times you repeat definitions or copy and paste, it won’t bring you clarity on the word Spirit and how it's used.

Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit (mind). In the light of the great promises he has set forth in 6:16c–18 Paul reiterates his call for holy living. The term beloved reveals Paul’s affection for the Corinthians, and the use of the hortatory subjunctive (let us cleanse) and the first person plural reflexive pronoun (ourselves) shows how he includes himself and his colleagues with his readers as those who must fulfil the exhortation

The word defilement (molysmos) is found only here in the New Testament and only three times in the lxx. In all cases it denotes religious defilement. Paul’s reference to defilement of body and spirit implies that the ‘whole person’ can be affected adversely by idolatrous practices, or more specifically that both a person’s body (external) and spirit (internal i.e mind, character and thought) can be defiled. The latter alternative may be illustrated by 1 Corinthians 6:15–18, where the apostle describes a person’s sexual involvement with a prostitute as a sin ‘against his own body’ (sacred prostitution was part of pagan worship in Corinth), and by 1 Corinthians 10:19–21, where participation in idolatrous worship involves partnership with demons, i.e. defilement of spirit. To cleanse oneself from such defilement would mean abandoning any participation in pagan worship. Paul’s call for holy living finishes on a positive note: and make holiness perfect in the fear of God. He uses the noun holiness (hagiōsynē) in Romans 1:4, where he speaks of ‘the Spirit of holiness’ by whom Christ was designated Son of God with power, and also in 1 Thessalonians 3:13, where it comes as part of a benediction: ‘so that he [God] may establish your hearts unblamable in holiness’. In the present passage Paul exhorts his readers to make their holiness perfect. For them that would involve abandoning all compromise with idolatry. This break they would have to effect themselves, but in this, as in all growth in holiness, they could depend upon God’s grace mediated through the Spirit of holiness.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Sighing is a reaction to your ignoring the fact that "the mind" isn't the only definition of the word in question, and thus that meaning doesn't apply in every scriptural verse, and your refusing to accept the true meaning and context of 2 Cor. 7:1 out of pride and wanting to believe something else.

I don't need clarity on this. The following shows that you're wrong:

2 Corinthians 7:1	Since then we have these promises, dear friends, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of flesh and spirit (pneumatos | πνεύματος | gen sg neut), perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

To continue digging your heels in is out of pride, and the Holy Spirit can't bring Wisdom and understanding where pride is present.

It's not about pride, I'm sure you didn't fully understand the context of the verse you quoted. You probably just Googled the word "Spirit" and thought it would fit, without diving deeper into the meaning.

You know there are more difficult verses you could have quoted.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Because a person who was being proud would admit it if they were?



Or, you're just wrong, as the following shows to be the case:

2 Corinthians 7:1	Since then we have these promises, dear friends, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of flesh and spirit (pneumatos | πνεύματος | gen sg neut), perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Additionally, again, our God-given soul is the reason we speak, have morals, reason, judgement, and so on, and other animals don't.

Here let me help you Sabe

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28

The term Spirit is often used to refer to the mind, character, or thought, and that same concept is being expressed here. However, in this instance, the Lord uses the word Soul instead.

The issue for believers like you is that this verse clearly speaks of both the soul and the body being destroyed, meaning the entire person. In this context, the soul is shown to be just as perishable as the body, since both can be destroyed in the same place.

You’d benefit from studying the relationships between body and soul, body and mind, and body and spirit. This will help you see how Scripture refers to the whole person. But make sure you understand the full context before jumping to conclusions.

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Sabé

What does "not able to kill the soul" mean?

Simply put: "Do not fear those who can kill the body but cannot utterly and permanently destroy you." For the disciple, their true life is "hidden with Christ in God" (Colossians 3:3). While others may take the physical body, that life will be restored in the resurrection (Colossians 3:4).

The Greek word "psuche," translated as "soul" in this verse, actually means "life."

For example, in Matthew 16:25, psuche is translated as "life": "For whoever wants to save his life [psuche] will lose it, and whoever loses his life [psuche] for my sake will find it." Similarly, in the RSV, psuche is translated as "life" in verse 26: "For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life?" Given the similarity in context, it's reasonable to understand "soul" in Matthew 10:28 as referring to "life."

Once you understand how these words are used and apply them within their proper context, you'll begin to uncover much of the truth that the Lord and the Apostles shared, truth that speaks directly to the original Gospel message.

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Hiddenthings, the following shows you to be wrong:

2 Corinthians 7:1	Since then we have these promises, dear friends, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of flesh and spirit (pneumatos | πνεύματος | gen sg neut), perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Additionally, again, our God-given spiritual soul within us is the reason we speak, have morals, reason, judgement, and so on, and other animals don't.

Genesis 1:20–21 "And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life [Hebrew: nephesh]... And God created great whales, and every living creature [nephesh chayyah] that moveth..."

Keep trying Sabe!

Animals have souls!

 

[Hiddenthings]

Again, you're repeating an argument I already went over with you.

Can't reply?

 

[Hiddenthings]

You're repeating an argument I already went over with you, dude.

Avoiding these truths is not help self.

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Sabé

Here is the equation

Dust + Breath of Life = A Living Soul

Or if the word soul is offputting for you

Dust + Breath of Life = A Living Creature

 

[Hiddenthings]

It is therefore intelligent, spiritual, free, immortal, reasons, and so on, like the Father Who created it. It is also the reason we speak, have morals, reason, judgement, and so on, and other animals don't.

The Serpent did all these things and had a soul and a spirit if you understood their meaning.

What was different between the Serpent and A&E?

It was not the breath of life for both had that also.

What was the difference?

 

[Hiddenthings]

The serpent is metaphorical.

Wow here we go!

The serpent represents Satan, the first fallen angel/demon, not a literal animal-beast such as a snake. God is a Spirit. Angels are spiritual beings created by God, demons are fallen angels, but still spiritual beings, and neither are animal-man nor animal-beast.

For six weeks, the entire forum has been unable to answer the question about Genesis 3:1 for fear of losing their evil creature! And based on what you’ve written in this chat, I’m absolutely certain that you don’t know the answer either.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Again, the answer is that the serpent is metaphorical. The serpent represents Satan, the first fallen angel/demon, not a literal animal-beast such as a snake. You can accept or reject that all you like, but that's an eternal truth.

Looks like you’re on your own with this one, Sabe!

Both Jesus and Paul refer to it, just as they do to all of creation.

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Sabé, it seems you like to change the Word, its meaning, and what is literal or metaphorical to fit your own paradigm. Maybe I'm not the first to bring this to your attention.

I'm still convinced you misquoted 2 Corinthians 7:1, missing both its context and the meaning Paul was conveying about the "whole person." Hopefully next time, you'll keep this in mind and either avoid repeating the mistake or take a closer look before jumping to conclusions.

 

[Sabé]

Looks like you’re on your own with this one, Sabe!

Both Jesus and Paul refer to it, just as they do to all of creation.

The serpent is a metaphor, not a literal snake that spoke, just as the tree is metaphorical, not a literal tree that produced literal fruit of knowledge. The serpent represents Satan, the first fallen angel/demon, a spiritual being. You can reject that all you like, but it remains an eternal truth. Jesus, Paul, and others would've understood this. You currently don't, but nor do you want to, so I expect misinterpretation of Jesus's and Paul's words from you. But, that doesn't mean you'll never come to understand and accept, because you will, either in this life or the next.

I'm still convinced you misquoted 2 Corinthians 7:1, missing both its context and the meaning Paul was conveying about the "whole person."

The following shows that I'm right:

2 Corinthians 7:1	Since then we have these promises, dear friends, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of flesh and spirit (pneumatos | πνεύματος | gen sg neut), perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

 

[Hiddenthings]

2 Corinthians 7:1	Since then we have these promises, dear friends, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of flesh and spirit (pneumatos | πνεύματος | gen sg neut), perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Wrong on the Serpent and wrong on the Spirit to mean inner self, mind, character etc. When will you learn?

 

[Muna]

All you gotta do is say I'm wrong and I'm wrong? Lol, if that's how debate/discussion worked, we'd all be right.

I love a win/win situation

 

[Hiddenthings]

I love a win/win situation

Unfortunately, Sabe was found out and now the pride has set in. It's the Word which is the victor!

 

[Hiddenthings]

All you gotta do is say I'm wrong and that makes me wrong? Lol, if that's how debate/discussion worked, we'd all be right. Look, I've heard a lot of weird beliefs from Christians over many years. So, your belief in a literal serpent that spoke words and a literal tree that produced literal fruit of knowledge is rather tame in comparison, but still wrong, as is your understanding of 2 Cor. 7:1, for reasons given. I'm just a messenger. I relayed the truth on these matters. Do with the information what you will, but in the end, whether in this life or the next, you'll come to see that what I've spoken is the truth. So, for me, it's not a case of trying to win in a debate/discussion, because the truth already exists, it can't be changed, it has been made known, and will be understood.

Body and Mind. Body and Spirit, Body and Soul all speak to the whole person

Not hard if you had of search and sought the meaning of the context.