I have my doubts that Catholicism is Christianity
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Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Only in James 4:8 is the word “purify” (καθαρίζω, katharizō) used of someone cleansing themselves in a religious sense.
Purification is normally viewed as something God does to those who present themselves to him.
Of Gentiles, Peter can say in Acts 15:9 that God “purified their hearts (minds) by faith.” In Heb 9:14 and 1 John 1:7, it is the blood of Christ, infinitely superior to that of goats and sheep, which cleanses Christians from sin. Paul, then, seems to assume dependence upon Christ when he calls for complete purification here in 2 Corinthians.
Purification is normally viewed as something God does to those who present themselves to him.
Of Gentiles, Peter can say in Acts 15:9 that God “purified their hearts (minds) by faith.” In Heb 9:14 and 1 John 1:7, it is the blood of Christ, infinitely superior to that of goats and sheep, which cleanses Christians from sin. Paul, then, seems to assume dependence upon Christ when he calls for complete purification here in 2 Corinthians.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Weren't you just on another thread defending yourself against an accusation concerning your own pride? And now you are here expressing certainty concerning someone else's pride?
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
The truth of 2 Corinthians 7:1 is all that outwardly defiles the body and inwardly corrupts the mind (soul or spirit) since the two are deeply interconnected what pollutes the flesh will inevitably affect the mind, and what taints the spirit mind will also bring dishonor to the body. For example, the sin of uncleanness, though physical, is almost always linked to inner sins like pride, hatred, and cruelty, which deeply damage the soul (life, heart, mind and character).
There is no divine essence in man only the Word of God which cleanses the body and mind through obedience.
Romans 12:2 “And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
It's this renewing of mind which cleanses our spirit (mind) and brings the body into subjection to the Holiness of God.
It's been good to relook at this section in 2 Corinthians 7 thank you
There is no divine essence in man only the Word of God which cleanses the body and mind through obedience.
Romans 12:2 “And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
It's this renewing of mind which cleanses our spirit (mind) and brings the body into subjection to the Holiness of God.
It's been good to relook at this section in 2 Corinthians 7 thank you
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
You mean confidence in the truth? Yes, I gladly boast in His truth, just as Sabe is attempting to do, though in this case, they’re mistaken. They're also wrong about the serpent being merely a metaphor.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
"Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord." In this instance, I’m boasting in the truth of 2 Corinthians 7:1 and the deeper meaning it holds for those who genuinely seek to obey it.
To cleanse your mind is to actively pursue its renewal, and it is God's Word that truly washes and renews it. While Sabe may believe they possess some divine essence within themselves, a claim that is false the greater lesson in that passage is the call to actively cleanse and renew the mind in reverent obedience to God.
The fact Sabe cannot even speak to the context of this passage places them outside of its influence. Dangerous place to be if you believe you already have God's Eternal Spirit in you.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Another interesting insight into 2 Corinthians 7:1 is the word used for “filth” in 1 Peter 3:21 is different from that used in 2 Corinthians 7:1.
In 1 Peter, it refers specifically to physical dirt: 1 Peter 3:21 “The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”
Here, “filth” (rupos in Greek) denotes literal, physical uncleanness, contrasted with the moral and spiritual defilement referred to in 2 Corinthians 7:1.
It's this moral and spiritual defilement which needs cleansing.
This takes place in the mind and body.
In 1 Peter, it refers specifically to physical dirt: 1 Peter 3:21 “The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”
Here, “filth” (rupos in Greek) denotes literal, physical uncleanness, contrasted with the moral and spiritual defilement referred to in 2 Corinthians 7:1.
It's this moral and spiritual defilement which needs cleansing.
This takes place in the mind and body.
Behold
Well-Known Member
The MaryCult is obviously not "Christian"..
However, there are many Catholics who are wonderful Christians......tho deceived.
The issue with MARYCULT< is the same you find with all Cults.
Its this reader..........they try to change, How God saves you.. or keeps you saved.
The MaryCult has Mary as a part of Salvaiton , and water baptism as a part of Salvation , and Jesus as a part of it.
See that problem?
That's HERESY.
The ANSWER is : THE CROSS OF CHRIST, = JESUS......is Salvation........and they ADD Mary and Water Baptism to The Cross, as necessary for Salvation.
So, that DENIES The Cross, because its not giving JESUS all the Credit for being God's only way to heaven.... John 14:6
All Cults try to falsely rearrange How God saves you... or or keeps you saved, ....which will deny The Cross as the ONLY WAY........and that is how you recognize a Cult.
And you recognize a cult member, the same way.... because they will teach their cult aspect or concept of Salvation and its never going to Be Christ alone.......it will be Christ + works.......or Christ + Water + Mary..... or Christ + your good behavior to try to stay saved.
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However, there are many Catholics who are wonderful Christians......tho deceived.
The issue with MARYCULT< is the same you find with all Cults.
Its this reader..........they try to change, How God saves you.. or keeps you saved.
The MaryCult has Mary as a part of Salvaiton , and water baptism as a part of Salvation , and Jesus as a part of it.
See that problem?
That's HERESY.
The ANSWER is : THE CROSS OF CHRIST, = JESUS......is Salvation........and they ADD Mary and Water Baptism to The Cross, as necessary for Salvation.
So, that DENIES The Cross, because its not giving JESUS all the Credit for being God's only way to heaven.... John 14:6
All Cults try to falsely rearrange How God saves you... or or keeps you saved, ....which will deny The Cross as the ONLY WAY........and that is how you recognize a Cult.
And you recognize a cult member, the same way.... because they will teach their cult aspect or concept of Salvation and its never going to Be Christ alone.......it will be Christ + works.......or Christ + Water + Mary..... or Christ + your good behavior to try to stay saved.
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There's an ignore button you can use. It's a great forum feature. I turn it on and off from time to time, but I always regret turning it back off again.
Edit: I meant off
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Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
If you have asked, "will I go to heaven" and you answer "I hope so" or "I hope my good out ways the bad", You are not saved. Everyone born again from above has received the Holy Spirit of promise that indwells them. We know we are saved and when I meet another saved person, my Holy Spirit testifies with their Holy Spirit. We are one in Spirit. Ephesians 4:4-5 - There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
You used the wrong text to support your point Sabe, that's all.
The whole person is described as body & mind or body & spirit or body & soul. There is nothing eternal in a person but if you can identify this eternal presence by all means show it.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
I've presented the truth from the start. If you can demonstrate that the Spirit is something you're born with and that it is eternal, then please do, but 2 Corinthians 7:1 is not the verse that proves that point.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
It may seem that way to you, Sabe, because you've attached unbiblical ideas to the word.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
@Sabé
"And spirit".
By “filthiness of the spirit,” the apostle means all the thoughts or mental associations that defile the man. Thus the Saviour (Mat. 15:19) speaks of evil thoughts, &c. that proceed out of the heart, and that pollute the man. And probably Paul here includes all the sins and passions which appertain particularly to mind or to the soul (life) rather than to carnal appetites, such as the desire of revenge, pride, avarice, ambition, &c. These are in themselves as polluting and defiling as the gross sensual pleasures. They stand as much in the way of sanctification, they are as offensive to God, and they prove as certainly that the heart is depraved as the grossest sensual passions. The main difference is, that they are more decent in the external appearance; they can be better concealed; they are usually indulged by a more elevated class in society; but they are not the less offensive to God. It may be added, also, that they are often conjoined in the same person; and that the man who is defiled in his “spirit” is often a man most corrupt and sensual in his “flesh.” Sin sweeps with a desolating influence through the whole frame, and it usually leaves no part unaffected, though some part may be more deeply corrupted than others.
Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: II Corinthians & Galatians, ed. Robert Frew (London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 164.
"And spirit".
By “filthiness of the spirit,” the apostle means all the thoughts or mental associations that defile the man. Thus the Saviour (Mat. 15:19) speaks of evil thoughts, &c. that proceed out of the heart, and that pollute the man. And probably Paul here includes all the sins and passions which appertain particularly to mind or to the soul (life) rather than to carnal appetites, such as the desire of revenge, pride, avarice, ambition, &c. These are in themselves as polluting and defiling as the gross sensual pleasures. They stand as much in the way of sanctification, they are as offensive to God, and they prove as certainly that the heart is depraved as the grossest sensual passions. The main difference is, that they are more decent in the external appearance; they can be better concealed; they are usually indulged by a more elevated class in society; but they are not the less offensive to God. It may be added, also, that they are often conjoined in the same person; and that the man who is defiled in his “spirit” is often a man most corrupt and sensual in his “flesh.” Sin sweeps with a desolating influence through the whole frame, and it usually leaves no part unaffected, though some part may be more deeply corrupted than others.
Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: II Corinthians & Galatians, ed. Robert Frew (London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 164.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
@Sabé
of flesh and spirit. It has been argued (Gnilka, op. cit., pp. 58 f.; on the other side see Schlatter, pp. 580 f. and Windisch) that this use of flesh and spirit is not Pauline, but recalls Qumran. For Paul (it is said) the flesh is intrinsically evil, so that it is impossible to cleanse it (Braun lays much stress on this point), and the spirit is intrinsically good, so that it is impossible that it should be defiled, it was probably with this thought in mind that Marcion (see Tertullian, Adv. Marcionem v. 12) substituted blood for spirit. At Qumran, on the other hand, both flesh and spirit had to be cleansed (e.g. 1QM vii. 5 f.: They must all be men ready for war, and perfect in spirit and flesh, temime ruaḥ ubasar). But it is quite mistaken to suppose that Paul was incapable of using flesh and spirit without giving them their full theological meaning. Both are used in a loose popular way in this epistle. At 7:5 Paul says ‘Our flesh found no relief’, meaning exactly what he had said at 2:13, ‘I got no relief for my spirit’. In each case, he means, ‘I got no relief’, both flesh and spirit standing for the self. In the present verse, since they can hardly be identical, they will refer to the inner and outer aspects of the self. Compare 1 Cor. 7:34, ‘… that she may be holy both in body and in spirit (mind)’, outwardly and inwardly; that this is a quotation from a Corinthian opinion does not abate its relevance. Compare 1 Thess. 5:23.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 "Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."
C. K. Barrett, The Second Epistle to the Corinthians, Black’s New Testament Commentary (London: Continuum, 1973), 202.
of flesh and spirit. It has been argued (Gnilka, op. cit., pp. 58 f.; on the other side see Schlatter, pp. 580 f. and Windisch) that this use of flesh and spirit is not Pauline, but recalls Qumran. For Paul (it is said) the flesh is intrinsically evil, so that it is impossible to cleanse it (Braun lays much stress on this point), and the spirit is intrinsically good, so that it is impossible that it should be defiled, it was probably with this thought in mind that Marcion (see Tertullian, Adv. Marcionem v. 12) substituted blood for spirit. At Qumran, on the other hand, both flesh and spirit had to be cleansed (e.g. 1QM vii. 5 f.: They must all be men ready for war, and perfect in spirit and flesh, temime ruaḥ ubasar). But it is quite mistaken to suppose that Paul was incapable of using flesh and spirit without giving them their full theological meaning. Both are used in a loose popular way in this epistle. At 7:5 Paul says ‘Our flesh found no relief’, meaning exactly what he had said at 2:13, ‘I got no relief for my spirit’. In each case, he means, ‘I got no relief’, both flesh and spirit standing for the self. In the present verse, since they can hardly be identical, they will refer to the inner and outer aspects of the self. Compare 1 Cor. 7:34, ‘… that she may be holy both in body and in spirit (mind)’, outwardly and inwardly; that this is a quotation from a Corinthian opinion does not abate its relevance. Compare 1 Thess. 5:23.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 "Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."
C. K. Barrett, The Second Epistle to the Corinthians, Black’s New Testament Commentary (London: Continuum, 1973), 202.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
@Sabé
Here are some notes on 1 Thess 5:23
“spirit” in this passage refers to the “mind,” and “soul” to “life.” The phrase “spirit and soul and body” represents the whole person, as indicated by the parallel expression, “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly.”
Paul uses “spirit” elsewhere as synonymous with “mind,” for example:
Similarly, “soul” is used by Paul to mean “life,” as in:
Here are some notes on 1 Thess 5:23
“spirit” in this passage refers to the “mind,” and “soul” to “life.” The phrase “spirit and soul and body” represents the whole person, as indicated by the parallel expression, “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly.”
Paul uses “spirit” elsewhere as synonymous with “mind,” for example:
- “For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit (mind)…” (1 Cor. 5:3)
- “That ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind…” (Phil. 1:27)
(Also 1 Cor. 7:34; 2 Cor. 7:1)
Similarly, “soul” is used by Paul to mean “life,” as in:
- “So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you not the gospel of God only, but also our own souls…” (1 Thess. 2:8)
- “Moreover I call God for a record upon my soul…” (2 Cor. 1:23)
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