I know

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Matthias

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I‘ve been listening to people say that no one can prove that God exists. I‘ve been listening to Job, and that’s not what I hear him saying.

The living God, Job’s God, exists - and Job knew it.
 
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David in NJ

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I‘ve been listening to people say that no one can prove that God exists. I‘ve been listening to Job, and that’s not what I hear him saying.

The living God, Job’s God, exists - and Job knew it.
But WAIT !!!

You said you do not believe ELohim is THREE Who are Echad
 

David in NJ

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That’s right. Neither did Job. He and I are bound by the constraints of history.
How can the Redeemer stand on earth when God is a Spirit?

How can a man see God when JESUS said no one has seen God and no one can for He is invisible.

Did you catch the prophecy in Jobs statement? "I know my Redeemer lives"
 

Matthias

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How can the Redeemer stand on earth when God is a Spirit?

Are God’s angels spirit? Have they stood on earth? Are they able to do something which God himself cannot do?

How can a man see God when JESUS said no one has seen God and no one can for He is invisible.

Moses saw God’s back. No mortal man can see God’s face and live.

Mortal man has the potential to become immortal. Immortal man, I believe, will literally see his God and Father’s face.

Have you ever pondered the tragedy of a son never being able to see his father’s face?

The blind will see. Right now we can only see in the mind’s eye. After we have been made immortal and are with the Father and the Son - we will see them both.

God’s Son is coming back. I have a thread on the topic of the Father himself coming to the new earth.

Did you catch the prophecy in Jobs statement? "I know my Redeemer lives"

That is the point of the OP.
 

David in NJ

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Are God’s angels spirit? Have they stood on earth? Are they able to do something which God himself cannot do?



Moses saw God’s back. No mortal man can see God’s face and live.

Mortal man has the potential to become immortal. Immortal man, I believe, will literally see his God and Father’s face.

God’s Son is coming back. I have a thread on the topic of the Father himself coming to the new earth.



That is the point of the OP.
Angels can take on human form and materialize = Lot is one example

JESUS Says: "No one has seen the Father except He who is the Father AND no one has heard His Voice at any time"

Adam walked with the Lord in the Garden and heard His Voice

Isaiah saw the Lord

Ezekiel saw the Lord
 

Matthias

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This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with the Trinity.

Job the trinitarian is not a historical figure.
 

Matthias

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Angels can take on human form and materialize = Lot is one example

Yes. The God whom scripture says can do anything cannot materialize himself? He cannot ever be seen by the angels? He cannot ever be seen by Jesus?

JESUS Says: "No one has seen the Father except He who is the Father …

What? Only the Father has seen the Father? I don’t think Jesus said anything of the sort.

… AND no one has heard His Voice at any time"

The Israelites heard his voice at Mt. Sinai.

Going back to the example above concerning the angels - the angels have never heard his voice and cannot ever hear his voice? Jesus never heard his voice and cannot ever hear his voice?

Adam walked with the Lord in the Garden and heard His Voice

Yes, but he didn’t see his face. He heard his movement and he heard his voice.

Isaiah saw the Lord

In a vision.

Ezekiel saw the Lord

In a vision.

Daniel also saw the Son of Man approach the Lord in a vision and heard them speak.
 

Matthias

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That’s right. Neither did Job. He and I are bound by the constraints of history.

Reading post-biblical theology back into Job makes Job himself something that he wasn’t. It changes the biblical story.

Job isn’t speaking with or about the Messiah. And he certainly isn’t talking about … and neither am I.

The topic of this thread is proof of the existence of God.

P.S.

When did Job live? If we believe Job, and I do, the proof of God’s existence goes back at the very least to that time.

Job didn’t say, “No one can prove the existence of God.”

My proposition: Job knew for a fact that God exists and plainly said so.

***

“No one can prove the existence of God.” (This assertion has popped up on the forum several times today. That’s what prompted me to start this thread.)

Have you not considered Job?

What I’m looking for here is an argument, if someone wants to make it, that Job had no proof that God exists.
 
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Matthias

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When did Job live? …

My proposition: Job knew for a fact that God exists and plainly said so.

What I’m looking for here is an argument, if someone wants to make it, that Job had no proof that God exists.

Always look for the strongest argument against your position

What is the strongest argument against the position I’ve taken?

I glanced at it a couple of times in the thread.

1. “Job the trinitarian is not a historical character.”

That’s a fact. But let the wind blow some dust away and let’s look at it again.

Job … is … a historical character.

Is that a fact?

I’ve taken it to be, and I believe there’s good reason to, but there are some reasons not to. That makes my proposition disputable.

2. “When did Job live?”

I didn’t offer a timeline for consideration. That’s a fact. But let the wind blow some dust away and let’s look at it again.

… did Job live?

I’ve taken it as a fact that Job lived, and I believe there’s good reason to, but there are some reasons not to. That makes my proposition disputable.

If we want to pursue it we need to identify and evaluate the reasons that make my proposition disputable.

Is Job a historical character or a fictional character?