I SEE TWO CHURCHES IN ACTS 15

[Doug]

I contend that Acts 15 revels that there was indeed two churches. There was the little flock Jerusalem church and the body of Christ that, for a time, existed together.

[Acts 11:19 KJV] "Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.".........No Gentiles were being preached to. We have to be careful in assuming which church is being referred to in Galatians 2 and Acts 15. There were churches in Antioch before Paul was saved. Paul persecuted the little flock Jerusalem church and they were scattered as far as Antioch. These churches were not body of Christ churches, they were the little flock Jerusalem churches.

[Acts 15:1 KJV] "And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said], Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.".........If they came down from Judea, chances are these men who said the Gentile believers had to be circumcised were not from the body of Christ, but from the little flock church (I will explain). ........ [Acts 15:2 KJV] "When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.".........Paul and Barnabas disputed with the men from Judea, not with the body of Christ members. It was decided that Paul and Barnabas and some of "them" from Judea should go to Jerusalem about this matter. If Paul was going to the apostles and elders, these apostles and elders were from the little flock Jerusalem church.

Paul could not have been disputing about matters within his ministry, but was dealing with stipulations being imposed on Gentile believers by some of the believing circumcision little flock..........[Galatians 1:22 KJV] "And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:".........Paul says the churches of Judea were in Christ; the Jews in the little flock who believed on the name of Christ were in Christ, not just those in the body of Christ. ........Paul was unknown to the churches of Judea who only knew he persecuted them. That is why I said that those who came down from Judea weren't in the body of Christ, the churches of Judea didn't know Paul..........[Galatians 1:23 KJV] "But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.".......It is very doubtful that those from Judea were in the body of Christ.

[Acts 15:22 KJV] "Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; [namely], Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:".........When James says they would send men from their OWN company that precludes them from being members of the body of Christ. The apostle and elders sent chosen men of their own company which is those of the little flock, NOT of the body of Christ along with Paul and Barnabas. This wasn't done by Paul alone.
[Acts 15:23 KJV] "And they wrote [letters] by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren [send] greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:"
[Acts 15:24 KJV] "Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, [Ye must] be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no [such] commandment:".......It is certain that those who said the Gentiles had to keep the law of Moses were from the little flock churches and not the body of Christ members. The apostles and elders of the little flock did not command anybody to go to the Gentiles and say they had to keep the law.
[Acts 15:25 KJV] "It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,"........They sent believing little flock members WITH Paul and Barnabas. There was the little flock and the body of Christ in view here.
No doubt there were two churches here and saying there was just one church is incorrect.

The little flock church are those who believed the preaching of Jesus and the twelve. They believed only on the name of Jesus, that he was Christ, the Son of God, and had life by his name. They were persecuted and scattered under Paul. They were still in existence during the conversion and some of the ministry of Paul. The elders and apostles from the little flock church met with Paul in the Jerusalem council in Acts 15. The dispute arose from the little flock saying that Gentiles would have to follow the law of Moses. The little flock were the ones who disputed with Paul. This question would have impacted Paul and the church who were preaching liberty in Christ and that Gentiles weren't under the law.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I contend that Acts 15 revels that there was indeed two churches. There was the little flock Jerusalem church and the body of Christ that, for a time, existed together.

[Acts 11:19 KJV] "Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.".........No Gentiles were being preached to. We have to be careful in assuming which church is being referred to in Galatians 2 and Acts 15. There were churches in Antioch before Paul was saved. Paul persecuted the little flock Jerusalem church and they were scattered as far as Antioch. These churches were not body of Christ churches, they were the little flock Jerusalem churches.

[Acts 15:1 KJV] "And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said], Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.".........If they came down from Judea, chances are these men who said the Gentile believers had to be circumcised were not from the body of Christ, but from the little flock church (I will explain). ........ [Acts 15:2 KJV] "When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.".........Paul and Barnabas disputed with the men from Judea, not with the body of Christ members. It was decided that Paul and Barnabas and some of "them" from Judea should go to Jerusalem about this matter. If Paul was going to the apostles and elders, these apostles and elders were from the little flock Jerusalem church.

Paul could not have been disputing about matters within his ministry, but was dealing with stipulations being imposed on Gentile believers by some of the believing circumcision little flock..........[Galatians 1:22 KJV] "And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:".........Paul says the churches of Judea were in Christ; the Jews in the little flock who believed on the name of Christ were in Christ, not just those in the body of Christ. ........Paul was unknown to the churches of Judea who only knew he persecuted them. That is why I said that those who came down from Judea weren't in the body of Christ, the churches of Judea didn't know Paul..........[Galatians 1:23 KJV] "But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.".......It is very doubtful that those from Judea were in the body of Christ.

[Acts 15:22 KJV] "Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; [namely], Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:".........When James says they would send men from their OWN company that precludes them from being members of the body of Christ. The apostle and elders sent chosen men of their own company which is those of the little flock, NOT of the body of Christ along with Paul and Barnabas. This wasn't done by Paul alone.
[Acts 15:23 KJV] "And they wrote [letters] by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren [send] greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:"
[Acts 15:24 KJV] "Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, [Ye must] be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no [such] commandment:".......It is certain that those who said the Gentiles had to keep the law of Moses were from the little flock churches and not the body of Christ members. The apostles and elders of the little flock did not command anybody to go to the Gentiles and say they had to keep the law.
[Acts 15:25 KJV] "It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,"........They sent believing little flock members WITH Paul and Barnabas. There was the little flock and the body of Christ in view here.
No doubt there were two churches here and saying there was just one church is incorrect.

The little flock church are those who believed the preaching of Jesus and the twelve. They believed only on the name of Jesus, that he was Christ, the Son of God, and had life by his name. They were persecuted and scattered under Paul. They were still in existence during the conversion and some of the ministry of Paul. The elders and apostles from the little flock church met with Paul in the Jerusalem council in Acts 15. The dispute arose from the little flock saying that Gentiles would have to follow the law of Moses. The little flock were the ones who disputed with Paul. This question would have impacted Paul and the church who were preaching liberty in Christ and that Gentiles weren't under the law.

You need divine glasses. YOu are not seeing correctly. I think that organization is taking you down a terrible road.

 

[Doug]

You need divine glasses. YOu are not seeing correctly. I think that organization is taking you down a terrible road.

I dont mean to be disrespectful but we are discussing comments/views based on scripture and not just our opinions
Care to give me some scriptures to refute me?

 

[DJT_47]

There is ONE church which is the body of believers who were baptized into Christ and added to the body by Christ. There are numerous congregations but all part of the same body of Christ, the earthly kingdom.

 

[bdavidc]

I contend that Acts 15 revels that there was indeed two churches. There was the little flock Jerusalem church and the body of Christ that, for a time, existed together.

Here you go again, teaching falsely and not what the Bible says. This is not what Acts 15 teaches. Acts 15 does not reveal two churches. It reveals false teachers inside one church being corrected by Scripture. Luke calls them “certain men” who went out without authorization, and the apostles state plainly, “to whom we gave no such commandment” ~Acts 15:24. That is not a second church. That is error being rebuked.

Your argument collapses at one phrase. Paul says the churches of Judea were “in Christ” ~Galatians 1:22. Scripture never defines “in Christ” as anything other than membership in His body. “So we, being many, are one body in Christ” ~Romans 12:5. You cannot invent a second body without rewriting Scripture.

Acts 15 explicitly denies two programs. Peter says, “We believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they” ~Acts 15:11. One salvation. One gospel. One body. Paul later states it plainly: Christ “hath made both one… to reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross” ~Ephesians 2:14–16.

What you are calling “two churches” is simply geographic distinction and immature doctrine being corrected, not two divine institutions. Scripture says, “There is one body, and one Spirit” ~Ephesians 4:4.

Stop dividing what God has made one. This teaching is not biblical, and Acts 15 refutes it, not supports it.

 

[Doug]

There is ONE church which is the body of believers who were baptized into Christ and added to the body by Christ. There are numerous congregations but all part of the same body of Christ, the earthly kingdom.

If there is one true church than the teachings of Jesus and the twelve and Paul are all for us.

[Matthew 28:19 KJV] "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
[Matthew 28:20 KJV] "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen."............the twelve were to teach the nations to observe ALL things he commanded them. The teachings of Jesus and the twelve are one and the same.

If there is only one true church then the teachings of Jesus and the twelve apply to us. If this is so then some verses need to be addressed.

[Luke 12:33 KJV] "Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth."..........This verse would apply to whoever says there is one church. If there is one church then this command from Christ applies because ALL teachings and commands do.

[Matthew 24:14 KJV] "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."...........are you preaching the gospel of the kingdom? Are you preaching the prophetic kingdom on earth is at hand? Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom and commanded the twelve to preach it. The gospel was the prophetic Davidic kingdom on earth in which believing Israel will reign with Christ for a thousand years was at hand. It demanded repentance and water baptism. This command applies if there is one true church.

[Acts 2:38 KJV] "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."..........If there is one true church then this command applies. To have sins forgiven (remitted) water baptism is required, otherwise sins aren't washed away.

[Matthew 6:14 KJV] "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:"
[Matthew 6:15 KJV] "But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."........This teaching applies to the one true church. Ones sins can't be forgiven unless one forgives others. THIS COMMAND CAUSES A DILEMMA. The one true church requires us to apply all the teachings of Jesus and the twelve, but Paul is an apostle in the one church as well and his teachings and commands apply as well. Paul teaches we are forgiven ALL trespasses..........[Colossians 2:13 KJV] "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"...........

How do you reconcile this?. The twelve would have to teach we need to forgive to be forgiven. Paul teaches we have all forgiveness. Who's teaching on this do we follow? The way to reconcile this is to acknowledge there are two churches with different commands and teachings.

 

[Doug]

Your argument collapses at one phrase. Paul says the churches of Judea were “in Christ” ~Galatians 1:22. Scripture never defines “in Christ” as anything other than membership in His body. “So we, being many, are one body in Christ” ~Romans 12:5. You cannot invent a second body without rewriting Scripture.

Israel was said to be in the Lord as well..................[2 Kings 18:5 KJV] "He trusted in the LORD God of Israel; so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor [any] that were before him."...........Christ is Lord

Jesus told the disciples to abide in him.............[John 15:4 KJV] "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me."

[Romans 16:7 KJV] "Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me."..........Paul was saying they were in Christ before Paul so they werent in the body of Christ because it wasnt formed until Paul was saved

The churches in Judea didnt know Paul so its unlikely they were in the body of Christ

 

[Doug]

Acts 15 explicitly denies two programs. Peter says, “We believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they” ~Acts 15:11

Paul wasnt the only place in scripture grace is stated
Noah found grace
Peter was saying they were saved by grace because he acknowledged they couldnt keep the law for salvation

 

[Doug]

Your argument collapses at one phrase. Paul says the churches of Judea were “in Christ”

[Galatians 1:22 KJV] "And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:"
[Galatians 1:23 KJV] "But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed."
Those in the Judea churches say THEY were persecuted by Paul. They DON"T say he preached the gospel and they were saved. If they werent in Christ thru Paul then they were in Christ by Peter's preaching. They were members in the little flock believing remnant of Israel NOT the body of Christ. The body of Christ wasnt formed til after Paul persecuted the little flock church.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I dont mean to be disrespectful but we are discussing comments/views based on scripture and not just our opinions
Care to give me some scriptures to refute me?

Ephesians 4:

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Ephesians 2:

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

This is Scripture- yours is opinion.

If you were a careful reader of Acts 15 you would see it is one church (otherwise why would Paul go to Jerusalem) that had differences between the jewish believers and Gentile believers. Just like th ebody of christ has differences among themselves today. it is all one church as Peter declared unambiguously, just with differing opinions based on theire historic cultures.

 

[Doug]

Ephesians 4:

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Ephesians 2:

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

This is Scripture- yours is opinion.

If you were a careful reader of Acts 15 you would see it is one church (otherwise why would Paul go to Jerusalem) that had differences between the jewish believers and Gentile believers. Just like th ebody of christ has differences among themselves today. it is all one church as Peter declared unambiguously, just with differing opinions based on theire historic cultures.

You are just giving scriptures about the body of Christ which doesnt refute there being two churches.

 

[Doug]

Ephesians 4:

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Ephesians 2:

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

This is Scripture- yours is opinion.

If you were a careful reader of Acts 15 you would see it is one church (otherwise why would Paul go to Jerusalem) that had differences between the jewish believers and Gentile believers. Just like th ebody of christ has differences among themselves today. it is all one church as Peter declared unambiguously, just with differing opinions based on theire historic cultures.

If there is one true church then the teachings of Jesus and the twelve and Paul are all for us.

[Matthew 28:19 KJV] "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
[Matthew 28:20 KJV] "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen."............the twelve were to teach the nations to observe ALL things he commanded them. The teachings of Jesus and the twelve are one and the same.

If there is only one true church then the teachings of Jesus and the twelve apply to us. If this is so then some verses need to be addressed.

[Luke 12:33 KJV] "Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth."..........This verse would apply to whoever says there is one church. If there is one church then this command from Christ applies because ALL teachings and commands do. HAVE YOU SOLD ALL, IF NOT, WHY DOESNT THIS APPLY TO YOU?

[Matthew 24:14 KJV] "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."...........are you preaching the gospel of the kingdom? Are you preaching the prophetic kingdom on earth is at hand? Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom and commanded the twelve to preach it. The gospel was the prophetic Davidic kingdom on earth in which believing Israel will reign with Christ for a thousand years was at hand. It demanded repentance and water baptism. This command applies if there is one true church. ARE YOU PRECHING THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM?

[Acts 2:38 KJV] "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."..........If there is one true church then this command applies. To have sins forgiven (remitted) water baptism is required, otherwise sins aren't washed away. DID YOU GET WATER BAPTIZED? IF SO DID YOU ACKNOWLEDGE IT WAS TO WASH AWY YOUR SINS?

[Matthew 6:14 KJV] "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:"
[Matthew 6:15 KJV] "But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."........This teaching applies to the one true church. Ones sins can't be forgiven unless one forgives others. THIS COMMAND CAUSES A DILEMMA. The one true church requires us to apply all the teachings of Jesus and the twelve, but Paul is an apostle in the one church as well and his teachings and commands apply as well. Paul teaches we are forgiven ALL trespasses..........[Colossians 2:13 KJV] "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"...........How do you reconcile this?. The twelve would have to teach we need to forgive to be forgiven. Paul teaches we have all forgiveness. Who's teaching on this do we follow? The way to reconcile this is to acknowledge there are two churches with different commands and teachings.
WHOSE TEACHING ON FORGIVENESS SHOULD YOU FOLLOW? DO YOU FOLLOW JESUS AND BELIEVE YOU MUST FORGIVE TO BE FOREGIVEN OR PAUL WHO SAYS YOU HAVE ALL FOREGIVENESS?

I only gave a few scriptures as examples, but all of the teachings of Jesus, the twelve, and Paul would require application if there were only one church.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You are just giving scriptures about the body of Christ which doesnt refute there being two churches.

And you haven't given any evidence there was tow separate churches . Especially when Paul said this:

Ephesians 4

King James Version

​

4 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

You have to present biblical evidence that Peter and Paul are in two separate churches.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If there is only one true church then the teachings of Jesus and the twelve apply to us. If this is so then some verses need to be addressed.

You really should not be trying to teach on this forum, given your extreme lack of rightly dividing the Scriptures.

Jesus until Matt. 12 was announcing the Messianic kingdom. After that when the pharisees committed the blasphemy of the Spirit, went to train the apostles for teh church!

Remember Jesus said this:

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus said church singular, you say churches!

 

[Lambano]

If there is only one true church then the teachings of Jesus and the twelve apply to us. If this is so then some verses need to be addressed.

[Luke 12:33 KJV] "Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth."..........This verse would apply to whoever says there is one church. If there is one church then this command from Christ applies because ALL teachings and commands do.

I suppose that's one way of getting out of doing something you don't want to do.

 

[talons]

No doubt there were two churches here and saying there was just one church is incorrect.

Since you have decided there are Two churches, who is the Head of each of your Two churches ?

 

[Doug]

You really should not be trying to teach on this forum, given your extreme lack of rightly dividing the Scriptures.

Jesus until Matt. 12 was announcing the Messianic kingdom. After that when the pharisees committed the blasphemy of the Spirit, went to train the apostles for teh church!

Remember Jesus said this:

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus said church singular, you say churches!

I was asking you questions that arise from saying there is one church. Why didnt you answer? Please answer as they are pertinant to your saying there is one church. Here they are again.

If there is one true church then the teachings of Jesus and the twelve and Paul are all for us.

[Matthew 28:19 KJV] "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
[Matthew 28:20 KJV] "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen."............the twelve were to teach the nations to observe ALL things he commanded them. The teachings of Jesus and the twelve are one and the same.

If there is only one true church then the teachings of Jesus and the twelve apply to us. If this is so then some verses need to be addressed.

[Luke 12:33 KJV] "Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth."..........This verse would apply to whoever says there is one church. If there is one church then this command from Christ applies because ALL teachings and commands do. HAVE YOU SOLD ALL, IF NOT, WHY DOESNT THIS APPLY TO YOU?

[Matthew 24:14 KJV] "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."...........are you preaching the gospel of the kingdom? Are you preaching the prophetic kingdom on earth is at hand? Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom and commanded the twelve to preach it. The gospel was the prophetic Davidic kingdom on earth in which believing Israel will reign with Christ for a thousand years was at hand. It demanded repentance and water baptism. This command applies if there is one true church. ARE YOU PRECHING THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM?

[Acts 2:38 KJV] "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."..........If there is one true church then this command applies. To have sins forgiven (remitted) water baptism is required, otherwise sins aren't washed away. DID YOU GET WATER BAPTIZED? IF SO DID YOU ACKNOWLEDGE IT WAS TO WASH AWY YOUR SINS?

[Matthew 6:14 KJV] "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:"
[Matthew 6:15 KJV] "But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."........This teaching applies to the one true church. Ones sins can't be forgiven unless one forgives others. THIS COMMAND CAUSES A DILEMMA. The one true church requires us to apply all the teachings of Jesus and the twelve, but Paul is an apostle in the one church as well and his teachings and commands apply as well. Paul teaches we are forgiven ALL trespasses..........[Colossians 2:13 KJV] "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"...........How do you reconcile this?. The twelve would have to teach we need to forgive to be forgiven. Paul teaches we have all forgiveness. Who's teaching on this do we follow? The way to reconcile this is to acknowledge there are two churches with different commands and teachings.
WHOSE TEACHING ON FORGIVENESS SHOULD YOU FOLLOW? DO YOU FOLLOW JESUS AND BELIEVE YOU MUST FORGIVE TO BE FOREGIVEN OR PAUL WHO SAYS YOU HAVE ALL FOREGIVENESS?

I only gave a few scriptures as examples, but all of the teachings of Jesus, the twelve, and Paul would require application if there were only one church.

 

[Doug]

Jesus said church singular, you say churches!

The body of Christ was hidden it was a mystery so he wouldnt speak about until revealed to Paul

 

[Doug]

I suppose that's one way of getting out of doing something you don't want to do.

You havent answered any of the questions. Care to? Here they are
As far as there being one church please answer these questions:

If there is one true church then the teachings of Jesus and the twelve and Paul are all for us.

[Matthew 28:19 KJV] "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
[Matthew 28:20 KJV] "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen."............the twelve were to teach the nations to observe ALL things he commanded them. The teachings of Jesus and the twelve are one and the same.

If there is only one true church then the teachings of Jesus and the twelve apply to us. If this is so then some verses need to be addressed.

[Luke 12:33 KJV] "Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth."..........This verse would apply to whoever says there is one church. If there is one church then this command from Christ applies because ALL teachings and commands do. HAVE YOU SOLD ALL, IF NOT, WHY DOESNT THIS APPLY TO YOU?

[Matthew 24:14 KJV] "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."...........are you preaching the gospel of the kingdom? Are you preaching the prophetic kingdom on earth is at hand? Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom and commanded the twelve to preach it. The gospel was the prophetic Davidic kingdom on earth in which believing Israel will reign with Christ for a thousand years was at hand. It demanded repentance and water baptism. This command applies if there is one true church. ARE YOU PRECHING THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM?

[Acts 2:38 KJV] "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."..........If there is one true church then this command applies. To have sins forgiven (remitted) water baptism is required, otherwise sins aren't washed away. DID YOU GET WATER BAPTIZED? IF SO DID YOU ACKNOWLEDGE IT WAS TO WASH AWY YOUR SINS?

[Matthew 6:14 KJV] "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:"
[Matthew 6:15 KJV] "But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."........This teaching applies to the one true church. Ones sins can't be forgiven unless one forgives others. THIS COMMAND CAUSES A DILEMMA. The one true church requires us to apply all the teachings of Jesus and the twelve, but Paul is an apostle in the one church as well and his teachings and commands apply as well. Paul teaches we are forgiven ALL trespasses..........[Colossians 2:13 KJV] "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"...........How do you reconcile this?. The twelve would have to teach we need to forgive to be forgiven. Paul teaches we have all forgiveness. Who's teaching on this do we follow? The way to reconcile this is to acknowledge there are two churches with different commands and teachings.
WHOSE TEACHING ON FORGIVENESS SHOULD YOU FOLLOW? DO YOU FOLLOW JESUS AND BELIEVE YOU MUST FORGIVE TO BE FOREGIVEN OR PAUL WHO SAYS YOU HAVE ALL FOREGIVENESS?

I only gave a few scriptures as examples, but all of the teachings of Jesus, the twelve, and Paul would require application if there were only one church.

 

[Doug]

Since you have decided there are Two churches, who is the Head of each of your Two churches ?

Peter and the apostles lead the little floch believing remnant of Israel
Paul is apostle to the the body of Christ