I used to be a Catholic Christian believer, been for four years.I believed that good works still needed to be done after receiving our Lord Jesus Christ as saviour to grant us to heaven after we die.But only after I received true salvation not long ago, had I truly felt God's caring love towards me.The questions that led me to doubt the direction I am going is...1. Why is it that the more I love God by obeying His commandments, the more bitter I become towards people and God in my heart?2. Why did God give the workers the same wage even though some worked much longer and harder than the rest? Is He unjust?3. What does the verse '...so that we may serve Him without fear' mean?1. Because our good works are as tattered rags2. Because God looks at the repentance of the heart, not on how much work we do for Him. Therefore He is just to all who repents in their heart.3. It means forgiveness from God is not out of our requirements, but out of His love.
I used to be a Catholic believer
- Thread starter lastsecman
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Good works are not FOR salvation, but a RESULT OF salvation.Ephesians 2:10.Why would I, as a Christian, NOT want to go out of my way to do all the good things I can possibly do?
(lastsecman;62328)
The questions that led me to doubt the direction I am going is...1. Why is it that the more I love God by obeying His commandments, the more bitter I become towards people and God in my heart?
The greatest command is to love God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. The second greatest command is to love your neighbor as yourself. If you are bitter towards God and people then you are not obeying His commandments. Why are you bitter? Do you think life or God is unfair to you compared to others? I guess you're just not being good enough yet to get martyred.
2. Why did God give the workers the same wage even though some worked much longer and harder than the rest? Is He unjust?
Because that's what the people agreed on.
3. What does the verse '...so that we may serve Him without fear' mean?
There are some people who just make up that "fear" means "respect". But, fear means fear. Fear is a virtue (the wicked treat fear as a vice). Fear is what stops you from doing stupid things, and so it is with serving God. (Sometimes there are greater issues than what's causing your fear, so fear needs to be overcome. This is called bravery. You cannot be brave without fear.)
The questions that led me to doubt the direction I am going is...1. Why is it that the more I love God by obeying His commandments, the more bitter I become towards people and God in my heart?
The greatest command is to love God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. The second greatest command is to love your neighbor as yourself. If you are bitter towards God and people then you are not obeying His commandments. Why are you bitter? Do you think life or God is unfair to you compared to others? I guess you're just not being good enough yet to get martyred.
2. Why did God give the workers the same wage even though some worked much longer and harder than the rest? Is He unjust?
Because that's what the people agreed on.
3. What does the verse '...so that we may serve Him without fear' mean?
There are some people who just make up that "fear" means "respect". But, fear means fear. Fear is a virtue (the wicked treat fear as a vice). Fear is what stops you from doing stupid things, and so it is with serving God. (Sometimes there are greater issues than what's causing your fear, so fear needs to be overcome. This is called bravery. You cannot be brave without fear.)
Super Kal
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you're absolutely right, lastsecman... works cannot get anyone into heaven... it is the saving faith and grace of God that we recieve eternal salvation...however, just because we receive through grace and faith, does not mean we can go back to the lifestyle we once lived... we can profess to be Christians but without those actions, "Christian" just becomes something to hide behind.our faith has to come from inside, and we must make an inward attempt to live and walk like Christ... those deeds that James talks about... it's not because we have to make them... it may seem that way at first to a new Christian, but when they grow in faith, it becomes more than that... they do those deeds and works, not because they have to, but because they inwardly want to... they want to do them because Christ inside of them has changed their heart and mind into more like Him.that's the way I see it
(Super Kal;62468)
no."For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
True, I just wanted to remind you, that works on what James 2 said it completely different than the one Paul is saying.So works in Paul's saying is completely different than works in what James is saying.
no."For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
True, I just wanted to remind you, that works on what James 2 said it completely different than the one Paul is saying.So works in Paul's saying is completely different than works in what James is saying.
Super Kal
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no, it's not... James is actually strengthening what Paul said. The only way we come to the conclusion that it is through woks that we are saved is by taking what James said out of context.Those works prove that we have been saved by Christ because of the Holy Spirit working within us to change us... but again, it is not the works alone that save us... it's God's grace that saves us.these two acts, faith and works, go hand in hand with each other... you cannot do one and simply forget about the other.
QUOTE (Jordan;62469)
True, I just wanted to remind you, that works on what James 2 said it completely different than the one Paul is saying.So works in Paul's saying is completely different than works in what James is saying.
So you are saying Paul and James uses the SAME meaning? So God does contradict Himself after all, guess men is right and God a liar.
True, I just wanted to remind you, that works on what James 2 said it completely different than the one Paul is saying.So works in Paul's saying is completely different than works in what James is saying.
So you are saying Paul and James uses the SAME meaning? So God does contradict Himself after all, guess men is right and God a liar.
Super Kal
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no, James is re-iterating the fact that faith does save someone, but that faith is meaningless if it doesn't change you from the inside... a professed Christian is going to call himself/herself a Christian and still live in sin and be a part of the world... a true Christian will have changed from the inside so that through her works, that faith in Christ can be seen.Both of these men support each other... they are coming at it from different perspectives.http://www.gotquestions.org/salvation-faith-alone.html
(Super Kal;62696)
no, James is re-iterating the fact that faith does save someone, but that faith is meaningless if it doesn't change you from the inside... a professed Christian is going to call himself/herself a Christian and still live in sin and be a part of the world... a true Christian will have changed from the inside so that through her works, that faith in Christ can be seen.Both of these men support each other... they are coming at it from different perspectives.http://www.gotquestions.org/salvation-faith-alone.html
So I was right. And God can't contradict Himself. Paul and James uses the SAME word 'works' but uses a DIFFERENT meaning of the word 'works'.
no, James is re-iterating the fact that faith does save someone, but that faith is meaningless if it doesn't change you from the inside... a professed Christian is going to call himself/herself a Christian and still live in sin and be a part of the world... a true Christian will have changed from the inside so that through her works, that faith in Christ can be seen.Both of these men support each other... they are coming at it from different perspectives.http://www.gotquestions.org/salvation-faith-alone.html
So I was right. And God can't contradict Himself. Paul and James uses the SAME word 'works' but uses a DIFFERENT meaning of the word 'works'.
(lastsecman;62328)
I used to be a Catholic Christian believer, been for four years.I believed that good works still needed to be done after receiving our Lord Jesus Christ as saviour to grant us to heaven after we die.But only after I received true salvation not long ago, had I truly felt God's caring love towards me and me toward Him.The questions that led me to doubt the direction I am going is...1. Why is it that the more I love God by obeying His commandments, the more bitter I become towards people and God in my heart?2. Why did God give the workers the same wage even though some worked much longer and harder than the rest? Is He unjust?3. What does the verse '...so that we may serve Him without fear' mean?The answers after a long period of search is....1. Because our good works are as tattered rags2. Because God looks at the repentance of the heart, not on how much work we do for Him. Therefore He is just to all who repents in their heart.3. It means forgiveness from God is not out of requirements, but out of love.
1) Only when we see how sinful we are and what Jesus did for us, do we realize that we have no right to hold anything against our brother. God forgave us when we were his enemies and so must we forgive others who sin as well.2) The parable of the worker also demonstrates that it's God's sovereign choice to whom he is generous, not ours. 3) Right. We serve God because we have love for God, not to get love from God.
I used to be a Catholic Christian believer, been for four years.I believed that good works still needed to be done after receiving our Lord Jesus Christ as saviour to grant us to heaven after we die.But only after I received true salvation not long ago, had I truly felt God's caring love towards me and me toward Him.The questions that led me to doubt the direction I am going is...1. Why is it that the more I love God by obeying His commandments, the more bitter I become towards people and God in my heart?2. Why did God give the workers the same wage even though some worked much longer and harder than the rest? Is He unjust?3. What does the verse '...so that we may serve Him without fear' mean?The answers after a long period of search is....1. Because our good works are as tattered rags2. Because God looks at the repentance of the heart, not on how much work we do for Him. Therefore He is just to all who repents in their heart.3. It means forgiveness from God is not out of requirements, but out of love.
1) Only when we see how sinful we are and what Jesus did for us, do we realize that we have no right to hold anything against our brother. God forgave us when we were his enemies and so must we forgive others who sin as well.2) The parable of the worker also demonstrates that it's God's sovereign choice to whom he is generous, not ours. 3) Right. We serve God because we have love for God, not to get love from God.
(lastsecman;62328)
I used to be a Catholic Christian believer, been for four years.I believed that good works still needed to be done after receiving our Lord Jesus Christ as saviour to grant us to heaven after we die.But only after I received true salvation not long ago, had I truly felt God's caring love towards me and me toward Him.The questions that led me to doubt the direction I am going is...1. Why is it that the more I love God by obeying His commandments, the more bitter I become towards people and God in my heart?2. Why did God give the workers the same wage even though some worked much longer and harder than the rest? Is He unjust?3. What does the verse '...so that we may serve Him without fear' mean?The answers after a long period of search is....1. Because our good works are as tattered rags2. Because God looks at the repentance of the heart, not on how much work we do for Him. Therefore He is just to all who repents in their heart.3. It means forgiveness from God is not out of requirements, but out of love.
Well, I'm Catholic and I'm not at all bitter about doing good works. I also don't do good works because I fear God. I try to do them because it makes me happy to serve others. Many non-Catholic Christians have the mistaken assumption that Catholics have a works-only view of getting to Heaven. We believe we are saved by God's grace alone. We believe we are justified in that grace by faith AND works. It's both/and, not either/or. Please make sure you know what the Church truly teaches before getting upset with it. The Catholic Church is in the business of helping souls get to Heaven. The Church isn't in the business of holding a gun to a person's head and forcing them to do anything against their will. We're all given a free will. The Catholic Church is a guidepost for helping us on the straight and narrow path. It's not an institution that rules with an iron fist and forces anyone to abide by those rules. But I'll tell you this: The more I get to know about the Catholic Church and the more I follow the so-called "rules", the closer I feel to Christ!!
I used to be a Catholic Christian believer, been for four years.I believed that good works still needed to be done after receiving our Lord Jesus Christ as saviour to grant us to heaven after we die.But only after I received true salvation not long ago, had I truly felt God's caring love towards me and me toward Him.The questions that led me to doubt the direction I am going is...1. Why is it that the more I love God by obeying His commandments, the more bitter I become towards people and God in my heart?2. Why did God give the workers the same wage even though some worked much longer and harder than the rest? Is He unjust?3. What does the verse '...so that we may serve Him without fear' mean?The answers after a long period of search is....1. Because our good works are as tattered rags2. Because God looks at the repentance of the heart, not on how much work we do for Him. Therefore He is just to all who repents in their heart.3. It means forgiveness from God is not out of requirements, but out of love.
Well, I'm Catholic and I'm not at all bitter about doing good works. I also don't do good works because I fear God. I try to do them because it makes me happy to serve others. Many non-Catholic Christians have the mistaken assumption that Catholics have a works-only view of getting to Heaven. We believe we are saved by God's grace alone. We believe we are justified in that grace by faith AND works. It's both/and, not either/or. Please make sure you know what the Church truly teaches before getting upset with it. The Catholic Church is in the business of helping souls get to Heaven. The Church isn't in the business of holding a gun to a person's head and forcing them to do anything against their will. We're all given a free will. The Catholic Church is a guidepost for helping us on the straight and narrow path. It's not an institution that rules with an iron fist and forces anyone to abide by those rules. But I'll tell you this: The more I get to know about the Catholic Church and the more I follow the so-called "rules", the closer I feel to Christ!!
(lastsecman;62328)
I used to be a Catholic Christian believer, been for four years.I believed that good works still needed to be done after receiving our Lord Jesus Christ as saviour to grant us to heaven after we die.But only after I received true salvation not long ago, had I truly felt God's caring love towards me and me toward Him.The questions that led me to doubt the direction I am going is...1. Why is it that the more I love God by obeying His commandments, the more bitter I become towards people and God in my heart?2. Why did God give the workers the same wage even though some worked much longer and harder than the rest? Is He unjust?3. What does the verse '...so that we may serve Him without fear' mean?The answers after a long period of search is....1. Because our good works are as tattered rags2. Because God looks at the repentance of the heart, not on how much work we do for Him. Therefore He is just to all who repents in their heart.3. It means forgiveness from God is not out of requirements, but out of love.
What do you see as Good Works?
I used to be a Catholic Christian believer, been for four years.I believed that good works still needed to be done after receiving our Lord Jesus Christ as saviour to grant us to heaven after we die.But only after I received true salvation not long ago, had I truly felt God's caring love towards me and me toward Him.The questions that led me to doubt the direction I am going is...1. Why is it that the more I love God by obeying His commandments, the more bitter I become towards people and God in my heart?2. Why did God give the workers the same wage even though some worked much longer and harder than the rest? Is He unjust?3. What does the verse '...so that we may serve Him without fear' mean?The answers after a long period of search is....1. Because our good works are as tattered rags2. Because God looks at the repentance of the heart, not on how much work we do for Him. Therefore He is just to all who repents in their heart.3. It means forgiveness from God is not out of requirements, but out of love.
What do you see as Good Works?
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