I will raise them on the last day.

[Spiritual Israelite]

John 6:54
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Jesus said it all here, He will raise them on the last day, not raise them a thousand years before the last day.

Right. It's very simple. But, too simple for Premils, unfortunately.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Genesis is the Foundation for a literal 1,000 years.
Revelation ch20 confirms Genesis ch5

Where does scripture itself teach that? Nowhere, of course. Nowhere in Revelation 20 or in any scripture that you think relates to the time period of the thousand years, says that time period has anything to do with what is written in Genesis.

 

[Marty fox]

Genesis is the Foundation for a literal 1,000 years.
Revelation ch20 confirms Genesis ch5

What verses?

 

[Marty fox]

Passing a test is what God instituted for man at the very beginning of his existence. The purpose of the two trees in Eden, constituted a test of their obedience. Eating the fruit of one would lead to death, but the other to life. Free will was a gift, but the abuse of it had consequences. They were free to choose their actions, but not free of the results of those actions. Free will had to have limits and God made sure that there was a safety net.

Have you never asked why satan was even there in the garden? What prompted him to plot a takeover of the human race with his own abuse of free will?
Why did God allow the rebels to live? Why did he not just eliminate them and start fresh with another pair of perfect humans?

Does the Bible answer those questions? Yes, it does....but what are your own conclusions about those things? The answers are important if we are to have the big picture.

What is the purpose of Armageddon? What exactly is it that takes place there?

The “battle of Har–Magedon” is the future earth-wide battle in which God’s appointed King, Jesus Christ, will destroy God’s enemies. Among these enemies are “the kings of the entire inhabited earth”, who are mobilized by “expressions inspired by demons” and are gathered together “to the war of the great day of God the Almighty . . . to the place that is called in Hebrew Har–Magedon.” (Rev 16:14, 16) Human armies mobilized against the angelic forces of Jesus Christ....like ants on a railway track trying to stop a locomotive from squashing them out of existence....

The “place” where this war is fought, is not literal...for several reasons.
The name Har–Magedon, rendered “Armageddon” in some Bible translations, means “Mountain of Megiddo”.....There has never been a literal mountain that bears that name.
Furthermore, “the kings of the earth and their armies” could not literally gather in one place, except representatively.
“The place” must therefore refer to the condition or world situation into which earth’s political rulers and their supporters are led—one of opposition to the true God and to his “armies that were in heaven” under the military command of the “King of kings and Lord of lords,” Jesus Christ. (Rev 19:14, 16)

This is a battle fought on earth, but between the forces of evil under the devil’s control (both human and demonic) and the angelic forces under Christ. This is “the war of the great day of God the Almighty”.

No Christian will be fighting this war....the words of Jahaziel, when Israel were threatened by the massive Assyrian army coming against them will prove true again.....“Ye shall not need to fight in this battle: set yourselves, stand ye still, and see the salvation of Jehovah with you”. (2 Chron 20:17 ASV)

Similarly, at Isa 26:20, God says of that coming time: “Go, My people, come into your chambers and close your door about you; hide for but a moment, until the wrath passes.”

Zephaniah also urges his people.....“before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of Jehovah come upon you, before the day of Jehovah’s anger come upon you. Seek ye Jehovah, all ye meek of the earth, that have kept his ordinances; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye will be hid in the day of Jehovah’s anger.” (ASV)

There is only one “day of Jehovah’s anger”....one that has been brewing since the rebellion in Eden.

The connection to the ancient Israelite city of Megiddo becomes obvious with a little research.
Strategically located to the east of Mount Carmel, Megiddo dominated major trade and military routes of the day. It was also the site of decisive battles. By linking Megiddo to God’s coming war, the Bible assures us that God, through his Son, will completely conquer all opposing forces.

The “war of Har–Magedon” will rid the earth of all corruption and wickedness. It will open the way for the most glorious era in all human history. (Rev 21:1-4) Under the loving oversight of God’s Kingdom, the earth will be transformed into a paradise in which righteous ones, (Armageddon survivors as well as all the resurrected dead) will live forever. It will be a complete restoration of God’s original purpose for the earth and mankind upon it. (Psalm 37:29; Isa 55:11)

This is what makes logical sense to me...the big picture has never changed.
God had it all sorted back in the garden. Genesis is where it started...Revelation is where it ends for the sinful human race under satan’s rulership. (1 John 5:19)

But all of us Christians fail test every day. We are saved by grace through faith it's because of what Jesus did not us.

Once again, our obedience and repentance prove our salvation not earns it.

 

[David in NJ]

What verses?

Genesis 5:1-5
This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. 2He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created. 3And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. 4After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters. 5So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What in the world are you talking about, answer the question? I did answer the question. Just because you might disagree with my answer does not mean I didn't answer your question. I already told you, Zechariah 14:16-19 explains who some of these are. You of course are free to show why Zechariah 14:16-19 does not support what I apply it to, and then show what it does apply to, and why and how it does. It's one thing to tell someone they are mistaken about something. It's another thing altogether to tell someone why they are mistaken about something, then provide the alleged correct interpretation instead.

Who exactly do you say that those described in Zechariah 14:16-19 are or will be? Are they among those who don't know God or don't obey the gospel of Jesus Christ? If so, can you explain how they would survive His second coming in light of what Paul wrote here:

2 Thessalonians 1:7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

BTW, why do you refuse to believe what the text states in Zechariah 14:16--- that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem? And if initially involving the same time period Revelation 19:21 is involving, how does survivors equal no survivors?

How does the idea of mortal survivors line up with what this text says...

Revelation 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the [a]supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”

You are not interpreting Revelation 19:21 in light of Zechariah 14:12, 16-19, I am.

You are not interpreting Revelation 19:21 in light of the verses immediately preceding it, including the verses I quoted above, nor in light of other scriptures like Matthew 24:35-39, 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 and 2 Peter 3:10-13.

 

[David in NJ]

Where does scripture itself teach that? Nowhere, of course. Nowhere in Revelation 20 or in any scripture that you think relates to the time period of the thousand years, says that time period has anything to do with what is written in Genesis.

You sound like a Baptist and a RCC

 

[Aunty Jane]

YES, i know the difference between soul and spirit.

I don’t think you do since you conflated them in your post....

Solomon went out to search the things that pertain to this earthly life and he was limited in knowledge and understanding concerning the spirit realm.

Solomon was gifted with God’s wisdom and what he wrote certainly mirrors man’s futile existence if this is all there is to life. And yes his understanding was limited but his understanding about death and the resurrection was not. He knew what a soul was because of what he wrote in Eccl 3:17-20...

“I said in my heart, God will judge the righteous and the wicked, for there is a time for every matter and for every work. I said in my heart with regard to the children of man that God is testing them that they may see that they themselves are but beasts. For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath (spirit) and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return.” (ESV)

This reiterates what God told Adam....

“By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.” (Gen 3:19 ESV)

There was no mention of an afterlife made to Adam ....and “heaven and hell” as opposite destinations were never mentioned to Israel.
All Israel were offered was ”life or death”...that’s as bad as it got. (Deut 30:19-20)

Adam was created, but only when God breathed the “breath (spirit) of life” into him, did he “become a living “soul”. The writer of Genesis knew the difference between soul and spirit but somehow the Greek notion of an immortal soul conflated the two words to become one meaning. All false religion teaches this doctrine because it perpetuates the devil’s first lie...that you don’t really die.

GOOD NEWS = the LORD Jesus Christ = "a GREATER then Solomon is Here"

Listen to the Master and your Creator who says: "the rich man died and now is in torment cried out "father Abraham........"

I have listened to the Master, which is why I reject all the doctrines of the counterfeit church system set up by God’s adversary.
You apparently have no idea how that parable was understood by Jesus’ Jewish audience....
Christendom has twisted it to mean what it never did.

Satan is not pathetic! But his hope to dethrone God is!!!

Anyone who opposes God in full knowledge of his Sovereignty and power is a pathetic idiot. How could he think for one moment that he was a match for his own Creator?

Be careful - Jude 1:8-10
Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries.
Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses,
dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”
But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves.

It was not yet time for God to bring judgment against the devil back in Moses’ day, but in the Christian Era it was a different story. What did Jesus say about the devil and his influence on the religious leaders of his day?....
“You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.” (John 8:44)
Do you see Jesus holding back rebuke from the one who caused all this damage just because of his own selfish ambition?...his deceptions and his lies?

Jesus will send satan and his hordes into an abyss for a thousand years....(Rev 20:1-3) He will then have the authority to not only rebuke him, but to silence him for the entire period whilst he repairs the earth and the human race from the after effects of his destructive rulership.

 

[Marty fox]

Genesis 5:1-5
This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. 2He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created. 3And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. 4After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters. 5So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died.

Sorry but I have no idea of how that proves a literal thousand years

 

[David in NJ]

Sorry but I have no idea of how that proves a literal thousand years

How old was Adam when he died? = 930 Literal Years

 

[Marty fox]

How old was Adam when he died? = 930 Literal Years

Sure, but what does that have to do with the thousand yeah reign?

We have to remember this verse too v

2 Peter 3:8
“But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Where does it ever say or imply in that passage that the lost are meant as well? Since when do the lost ever do any of this-- eats His flesh and drinks His blood and has eternal life?

You completely missed the point. For Premils, the last day is not really the last day because you have 1,000+ years worth of days following the last day.

Premils typically apply John 6:54 to that of during the 2nd coming. Then apply the resurrection of the lost to that of after the millennium that follows the 2nd coming. Therefore, what you said here makes no sense--- not raise them a thousand years before the last day.---but is misrepresenting how Premils typically interpret John 6:54. And once again, the lost are not in view per John 6:54 to begin with. Context---Context matters. Only the saved are. After all, it is only the saved that are granted eternal life. The lost certainly aren't.

Not to mention, since when does a day only mean a 24 hour day and never an era of time in some cases? IOW, what is likely meant by the last day is the millennium, the last day of the last days. I'm pretty certain if the last days can be involving 2K years thus far, the last day can equally involve another 1K years.

Where does scripture teach that the last days extend beyond the day that Jesus returns, which He called the last day when He will resurrect those who believe in Him?

Peter taught that scoffers would be scoffing at the promise of Christ's second coming during the last days (2 Peter 3:3-4). Obviously, no one will be scoffing anymore after the actual day He comes again. So, the day He comes again marks the last day of the last days. No more days to follow.

You might argue, if the last days can involve 3K years, why does Christ have to return before they expire? Maybe because of things like this , for one--

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Note that it says until the times of restitution of all things, not until the time of restitution of all things. IOW, how does one fit times(plural) into a single day event?

1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.


Take this verse. for example. Would anyone take 'times' in that verse to be only involving a single day? If no, and surely they wouldn't to begin with, why would they then treat 'times' in Acts 3:19 in an entirely different manner and apply a single day to it? Keeping in mind, per Amil there are no more days after the last day.

That verse is talking about the times and seasons leading up to the last day (the day of the Lord), not the duration of the last day. That is equivalent to the days leading up to the second coming of Christ which Jesus Himself compared to the days of Noah (Matthew 24:37-39). The reason Paul said he had no need to write unto them of the times and the seasons is because Jesus will come unexpectedly as a thief in the night and no one knows the day or hour. So, even if you knew that you're in the time or season just before His return, you still don't know exactly when He is coming.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How old was Adam when he died? = 930 Literal Years

So, 930 = 1000 in your world? Where does scripture itself make the connection that you are making between Adam's age and the thousand years of Revelation 20?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Sure, but what does that have to do with the thousand yeah reign?

Absolutely nothing, of course. Which is why he is possibly the only person in the world who thinks there is a connection between Adam's age and the thousand years of Revelation 20.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Not a Jewish myth at all, but a Scriptural fact. There was no belief in an immortal soul contained in Jewish Scripture.
Belief in an immortal soul was an adoption from the pagan Greeks that the apostate Jews took on in later centuries. The dead are all in Sheol….sleeping. (Eccl 9:5, 6, 10)

Jesus was Jewish and taught from Jewish Scripture.
Read that account of the resurrection of Lazarus and see where Jesus said he was….(John 11:11-14)

Yes….he knew what had to happen in order to go to where Jesus had gone to prepare a place for his elect.
He knew that at death he would sleep until Christ’s return, and then the time would be right for all of his elect to be resurrected, but no one knew when that was going to be. He would be “present with the Lord” when it was Gods’s time for the “first” resurrection. (Rev 20:6)

Soul sleep is clearly a false doctrine. As you were already shown, Paul taught that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8). You deny that someone can be absent from their body, but scripture not only clearly says people can be absent from their bodies, but also that when they are absent from their bodies they are present with the Lord. We human beings are made up of body, soul and spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23). Our souls and spirits go to be with the Lord when we die and the dead in Christ are conscious there (Rev 6:9-11).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

@Marty fox and @jeffweeder

There is a very BEAUTIFUL ARRANGEMENT that GOD is making for us in the 1,000 Year Reign of CHRIST whereby we are encouraged to be a part of it.

It's good to be reigning with Christ as one of His priests in His kingdom right now. Don't you think?

Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

But this is only because you currently cannot SEE the BEAUTY of what God has planned for those who love Him.
@Marty fox

Don't try to speak for Jeff. He believes that God has the perfect and eternal new heavens and new earth planned for those who love Him. Why do you act as if just because someone is not a Premil like you that they are not looking forward to what God has planned for us?

 

[soberxp]

Don't try to speak for Marty. He believes that God has the perfect and eternal new heavens and new earth planned for those who love Him. Why do you act as if just because someone is not a Premil like you that they are not looking forward to what God has planned for us?

Why not?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why not?

Why not what? Explain what you are asking in relation to what I said.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You sound like a Baptist and a RCC

I'm neither. So, instead of making ridiculous and useless comments like that, how about you show me the scripture which shows a connection between the thousand years of Revelation 20 and Genesis 5. Do you have any scripture which shows that connection? I don't believe so.