Identification

[Randy Kluth]

My wife and I suffer regular bouts of "negativity," and I don't think it's possible to avoid it. But I do think the proper way to deal with it is by "identifying with Christ."

What this means is that by faith we can identify with Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension. After all, he didn't come down to die for himself, as if he was some kind of masochist. Instead, he came down to die for us, to rise for us, and to ascend for us so that we could benefit from things only he could do. We can participate in these things by faith because we could never have done them on our own.

By faith we identify with Christ's death. We see our sins as forgiven, and we see our sins as put to death. The penalty has been paid, and we don't need to pay them again.

We also see ourselves as coming back to life after being punished with death, experiencing not just mortal life again, but more, the spiritual life of Christ himself. We experience his righteousness. This righteousness can no longer be disqualified due to our own inherent sinfulness.

And we also identify with his ascension into heaven, where we live free of sin, as if in a glorified state in complete victory over sin. We experience victory over sin not as if we are no longer in our mortal bodies, but rather, as having the ability to live in the righteousness of Christ even while we still live in mortal bodies. We still have the negativity, but we also have the new life of Christ that surpasses the life of the fallen body.

What do you think? Do we identify with Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension as a form of forgiveness, righteousness, and victory that we have access to by faith? Is this what Christ came to do for us, to make these things available to us by grace?

 

[CharismaticLady]

My wife and I suffer regular bouts of "negativity," and I don't think it's possible to avoid it. But I do think the proper way to deal with it is by "identifying with Christ."

What this means is that by faith we can identify with Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension. After all, he didn't come down to die for himself, as if he was some kind of masochist. Instead, he came down to die for us, to rise for us, and to ascend for us so that we could benefit from things only he could do. We can participate in these things by faith because we could never have done them on our own.

By faith we identify with Christ's death. We see our sins as forgiven, and we see our sins as put to death. The penalty has been paid, and we don't need to pay them again.

We also see ourselves as coming back to life after being punished with death, experiencing not just mortal life again, but more, the spiritual life of Christ himself. We experience his righteousness. This righteousness can no longer be disqualified due to our own inherent sinfulness.

And we also identify with his ascension into heaven, where we live free of sin, as if in a glorified state in complete victory over sin. We experience victory over sin not as if we are no longer in our mortal bodies, but rather, as having the ability to live in the righteousness of Christ even while we still live in mortal bodies. We still have the negativity, but we also have the new life of Christ that surpasses the life of the fallen body.

What do you think? Do we identify with Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension as a form of forgiveness, righteousness, and victory that we have access to by faith? Is this what Christ came to do for us, to make these things available to us by grace?

Absolutely, and have seen many miracles because of faith. We must be anxious for nothing. On a long trip across country I was listening to a teaching tape set by Charles Stanley called God is in Control. It changed my life. Nothing scared me after that.

 

[marks]

My wife and I suffer regular bouts of "negativity," and I don't think it's possible to avoid it. But I do think the proper way to deal with it is by "identifying with Christ."

What this means is that by faith we can identify with Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension. After all, he didn't come down to die for himself, as if he was some kind of masochist. Instead, he came down to die for us, to rise for us, and to ascend for us so that we could benefit from things only he could do. We can participate in these things by faith because we could never have done them on our own.

By faith we identify with Christ's death. We see our sins as forgiven, and we see our sins as put to death. The penalty has been paid, and we don't need to pay them again.

We also see ourselves as coming back to life after being punished with death, experiencing not just mortal life again, but more, the spiritual life of Christ himself. We experience his righteousness. This righteousness can no longer be disqualified due to our own inherent sinfulness.

And we also identify with his ascension into heaven, where we live free of sin, as if in a glorified state in complete victory over sin. We experience victory over sin not as if we are no longer in our mortal bodies, but rather, as having the ability to live in the righteousness of Christ even while we still live in mortal bodies. We still have the negativity, but we also have the new life of Christ that surpasses the life of the fallen body.

What do you think? Do we identify with Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension as a form of forgiveness, righteousness, and victory that we have access to by faith? Is this what Christ came to do for us, to make these things available to us by grace?

Yes, this is what I think.

This negativity, it's the flesh mind reverberating in our heads. I like to say, our new life in Christ transcends our old life in flesh.

Death and resurrecting in Christ gives us the benefit of a righteous life, and puts that righteous life in reach of our faith.

By faith in Jesus Christ we have access into the grace in which we stand.

Much love!

 

[quietthinker]

My wife and I suffer regular bouts of "negativity," and I don't think it's possible to avoid it. But I do think the proper way to deal with it is by "identifying with Christ."

What this means is that by faith we can identify with Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension. After all, he didn't come down to die for himself, as if he was some kind of masochist. Instead, he came down to die for us, to rise for us, and to ascend for us so that we could benefit from things only he could do. We can participate in these things by faith because we could never have done them on our own.

By faith we identify with Christ's death. We see our sins as forgiven, and we see our sins as put to death. The penalty has been paid, and we don't need to pay them again.

We also see ourselves as coming back to life after being punished with death, experiencing not just mortal life again, but more, the spiritual life of Christ himself. We experience his righteousness. This righteousness can no longer be disqualified due to our own inherent sinfulness.

And we also identify with his ascension into heaven, where we live free of sin, as if in a glorified state in complete victory over sin. We experience victory over sin not as if we are no longer in our mortal bodies, but rather, as having the ability to live in the righteousness of Christ even while we still live in mortal bodies. We still have the negativity, but we also have the new life of Christ that surpasses the life of the fallen body.

What do you think? Do we identify with Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension as a form of forgiveness, righteousness, and victory that we have access to by faith? Is this what Christ came to do for us, to make these things available to us by grace?

Worship is to be in spirit and in truth. Faith grasps the promised reality while we done our armour and the flesh battles. As in any meaningful relationship our heart's desire and longing is to connect on deeper and deeper levels with righteousness and kindness becoming the plumb line.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Thank you for your responses. This seems to be a key that God has given my wife and me today. And some people I deeply respect both here and elsewhere have signed onto it as legitimate. I appreciate the support very much.

 

[marks]

 

[justbyfaith]

A few things:

1) We will in fact be judged (Romans 14:10-12, 2 Corinthians 5:10) but we will not be condemned when we are judged (John 5:24 (kjv))...we are building on the solid foundation of Jesus Christ gold, silver, precious gems, wood, hay, stubble; and everything that we build on that foundation will be tested by fire (1 Corinthians 3:11-15) and will be revealed for what sort of work it is by the day. If anything remains, we will receive a reward. If it is burned away, we ourselves shall be saved, yet so as by fire. This is called the bema judgment seat of Christ.

2) If you compare Romans 4:15 to 1 John 3:4, I believe that you will see that where no law is, there is no sin. To be more accurate, sin is not imputed where there is no law. So then, from the Father's perspective, who looks down on us and sees the precious blood of Jesus as it is applied to our lives, it is "just as if we don't sin"....the law no longer points the finger at us to call us sinners; but we stand forgiven in the blood of Jesus and therefore our relationship to the law has changed...there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (John 5:24 (kjv), Romans 8:1-a).

3) I want to address his quotation of James 3:2. That verse is qualified by Philippians 1:10. And also, it should be clear from such verses as 1 John 3:9, 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), Colossians 2:11 (nlt), Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10; and 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; that we can indeed walk in freedom (John 8:31-36) and victory (1 Corinthians 15:57) over sinning in this life....it is not inevitable but that we will commit sins in the future...this doctrine of the inevitability of sin is false doctrine and heresy.

 

[marks]

A few things:

1) We will in fact be judged (Romans 14:10-12, 2 Corinthians 5:10) but we will not be condemned when we are judged (John 5:24 (kjv))...we are building on the solid foundation of Jesus Christ gold, silver, precious gems, wood, hay, stubble; and everything that we build on that foundation will be tested by fire (1 Corinthians 3:11-15) and will be revealed for what sort of work it is by the day. If anything remains, we will receive a reward. if it is burned away, we ourselves shall be saved, yet so as by fire. This is called the bema judgment seat of Christ.

2) If you compare Romans 4:15 to 1 John 3:4, I believe that you will see that where no law is, there is no sin. To be more accurate, sin is not imputed where there is no law. So then, from the Father's perspective, who looks down on us ans sees the precious blood of Jesus as it is applied to our lives, it is "just as if we don't sin"....the law no longer points the finger at us to call us sinners; but we stand forgiven in the blood of Jesus and therefore our relationship to the law has changed...there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (John 5:24 (kjv), Romans 8:1-a).

3) I want to address his quotation of James 3:2. That verse is qualified by Philippians 1:10. And also, it should be clear from such verses as 1 John 3:9, 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), Colossians 2:11 (nlt), Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10; and 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; that we can indeed walk in freedom (John 8:31-36) and victory (1 Corinthians 15:57) over sinning in this life....it is not inevitable but that we will commit sins in the future...this doctrine of the inevitability of sin is false doctrine and heresy.

I'd suggest listening to the full series. I'm not sure you're hearing his full message.

This is a fellow who teaches something you will appreciate I think.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

I'd suggest listening to the full series. I'm not sure you're hearing his full message.

This is a fellow who teaches something you will appreciate I think.

Much love!

I've heard this man before...

There is always something in what he says that can be refuted by specific verses in the Bible.

Maybe he isn't a false teacher....but I would venture to say that he doesn't know the word well enough to be in a pulpit in the church.

 

[marks]

2) If you compare Romans 4:15 to 1 John 3:4, I believe that you will see that where no law is, there is no sin. To be more accurate, sin is not imputed where there is no law. So then, from the Father's perspective, who looks down on us ans sees the precious blood of Jesus as it is applied to our lives, it is "just as if we don't sin"....the law no longer points the finger at us to call us sinners; but we stand forgiven in the blood of Jesus and therefore our relationship to the law has changed...there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (John 5:24 (kjv), Romans 8:1-a).

I think the reality is that God made us new righteous people. He sees us.

I think we do ourselves a disservice to say that God only pretends that we are OK.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I've heard this man before...

There is always something in what he says that can be refuted by specific verses in the Bible.

I haven't found much to point to that Scripture refutes. He holds extremely close to the text. The main thing that sets him apart from others is that he really "gets" what it means to be justified. And what it means to be a new creation.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

I think the reality is that God made us new righteous people. He sees us.

I think we do ourselves a disservice to say that God only pretends that we are OK.

Much love!

There is most certainly a sense in which righteousness is not only imparted and practical...it is also imputed and positional....and the imparted and practical comes as the result of that which is imputed and positional.

 

[justbyfaith]

I haven't found much to point to that Scripture refutes. He holds extremely close to the text. The main thing that sets him apart from others is that he really "gets" what it means to be justified. And what it means to be a new creation.

Much love!

I gave my exposition of what I found wrong with the message in question...and I also gave scripture to show why I disagreed with him.

 

[ChristisGod]

I haven't found much to point to that Scripture refutes. He holds extremely close to the text. The main thing that sets him apart from others is that he really "gets" what it means to be justified. And what it means to be a new creation.

Much love!

I think its the difference is resting in Christ finished work on the cross, His righteousness and faith in what He has accomplished on our behalf vs having to earn our own righteousness before God by our performance. Have we begun by faith and now being perfected by works is the issue. Its a misunderstanding of Gods grace through faith and how that works as per Ephesians 2:8-10.

I think Paul in Romans 8 here sums it up

For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:

“For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Nancy]

I'd suggest listening to the full series. I'm not sure you're hearing his full message.

This is a fellow who teaches something you will appreciate I think.

Much love!

Poor Andrew...he comes off with some pretty shocking questions and answers, lol. And folks make their minds up before giving the guy a chance. Too bad. He has been one of my favorite of all teachers.
And, as JBF said "we will in fact be judged..." yes we will but NOT for sin.

As far as "Identification" is concerned...my whole identity is in Christ. If it weren't, I'd have one foot in the world and one foot in heaven...impossible!!