Identity Theft.....

[Aunty Jane]

I heard a talk recently on this subject....identity theft is gaining momentum around the world......someone can steal your identity and ruin your reputation without you being able to prevent it, and often without you even being aware of it. The damage done can be long lasting as you try to prove that the debts incurred were not your doing. Sophisticated methods are used to impersonate you, and those not personally acquainted with you, will not know that the lies told by the impersonators, are not the truth.

But how old is identity theft? Does it have a history that goes way back?

The garden of Eden is a good place to start. The devil impersonated a snake to deceive the woman into breaking God’s command. So we can see where it originated. The repercussions were far reaching.

False prophets have also impersonated true prophets so as to get God’s people to do and believe what God said they should not.

False religion impersonates true religion, and that too causes people to engage in practices that God condemns, whist believing that they are serving real deities.

There were false Messiahs in Jesus’ day, trying to persuade people to follow them instead of the true Messiah.

The devil has always tried to get people to worship the wrong gods......he has provided a multitude of false gods who take people’s worship away from the true God by the deceptions he has created. Whole nations have adopted certain religious faiths which involve practices that God condemns....like idolatry and the giving of worship to many gods.....when no such gods exist in reality.

But the greatest identity theft of all was committed by the apostate church, after the first century, which Jesus himself foretold in his parable of the “wheat and the weeds”. (Matt 13:24-30; 36-42) Christianity was going to be hijacked by the devil who would create a counterfeit “Christian” religion, to take worship away from the true God and give it to a false god, who was manufactured by them under his influence.

“The church” set up by the “wolves” that Jesus warned about, (Matt 7:15-20) took over the faith and turned it into something completely foreign....teaching things and adopting practices that Christ never taught.
Gradually over time they managed to create a god that the Jews had never heard of. Their “one God” (Deut 6:4) was turned into three completely separate personalities who could talk to one another and be in three separate places at once.
Nowhere in all of Scripture will we find such a god....so this is the ultimate identity theft!
Passing this false god off as the true God....gradually introduced over time, “while men were sleeping”.....a deep spiritual sleep.

By misrepresenting the true God, they handed the majority over to a false god who was presented to them as the real one....yet he met no criteria contained in God’s word. This false god was read into ambiguous Scripture and no objection to its doctored beliefs were tolerated. Any dissenters were soon silenced, in the same way as the Jews silenced the prophets sent to correct them. (Matt 23:37-38)

Centuries of this indoctrination still keeps people in slavery to this false god. When the true God is identified, the majority reject him, just as the majority rejected Jesus as Messiah, despite the fact that he had all the necessary credentials.

After the death of the apostles, Jesus’ teachings became skewed and the truth was masked by lies taught to the ignorant masses for centuries, where there was no way to validate them. The church took the Bible away and punished anyone who dared to read or possess a copy.

The power they gained took them to dizzying heights where even Monarchs would not make a move without their counsel. They truly became “friends of the world”. (James 4:4)
We know that “power corrupts....and absolute over corrupts absolutely”.....the church was not spared from this, as it was foretold to take place......so why did God allow it?

The devil had made the claim in Eden that the humans did not need to obey God....they could do as they wished without penalty. The only way to show humans the folly of their disobedience was to allow the devil a free hand to show how successful the world would become under his rulership....so God gave it over to him, knowing full well that he could never succeed. (Luke 4:5-7)

At the same time, he would be able to see into the hearts of men, those who gladly swallowed the devil’s lies.....and those who refused to, often under penalty of death. The martyrs showed us what true faith is all about....refusing to submit to the counterfeit church or to adopt its practices.
The hopelessly divided church system fails miserably to imitate the one they claim as their “Lord”. (1 Cor 1:10)

All will answer to the true God for what they have accepted as their truth......we will all have to stand before the same judge duly appointed to that role. He will accept no excuses. (Matt 25:31-33; 41, 45-46; Matt 7:21-23)

The outcome will be shocking to the vast majority....those fooled into serving a false god...travelling in the company of the majority of mankind, blissfully ignorant of their destination. (Matt 7:13-14)

This identity theft will affect more than just our bank account.....
1 Corinthians 10:12.

 

[doctrox]

....identity theft is gaining momentum around the world......someone can steal your identity...

According to God, what is our "identity"?

...and ruin your reputation...

According to God, of what value is our "reputation"?

...you try to prove that the debts incurred were not your doing.

According to God, should we have any "debts incurred"?

Sophisticated methods are used to impersonate you...

Absolutely true. Who is doing it to us, how are they doing it to us, and why are they doing it to us?

All will answer to the true God for what they have accepted as their truth......we will all have to stand before the same judge duly appointed to that role. He will accept no excuses...The outcome will be shocking to the vast majority...Identity theft will affect more than our bank account...

Indeed.

 

[Aunty Jane]

According to God, what is our "identity"?


According to God, of what value is our "reputation"?

Since the real identity theft in this thread is misrepresenting the true God, and substituting a false one, his name and reputation are everything.

According to God, should we have any "debts incurred"?

Of course not, but the impersonators are the ones that attribute that debt to us.....the one whose identity was stolen and whose reputation is now sullied. (Prov 22:1)

Absolutely true. Who is doing it to us, how are they doing it to us, and why are they doing it to us?

Greed. (1 Tim 6:10)

1 John 5:19....
“We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.”

What part of this world is NOT under the devil’s control? Who or what can you trust in a world of his masterful deceptions? He is behind every evil thing that humans do to one another. The wars that they fight now have more evil weaponry than any human in the past could ever have imagined......it’s his last hurrah....he has pulled out all the stops, so that if God does not intervene soon, all life will be obliterated on this planet. He has no intention of allowing that to happen. (Isa 45:18)

 

[doctrox]

Yep, that's why we're not to be found partaking of that wicked thing. We're not to be found in the world. We're to come out from among them and be separate. Alas, the opposite has happened, such that many are having issues with their worldly Caesarian identity (not their Christ identity) being "stolen" from them. It is truly the blind stealing from the blind.

 

[TheHC]

Yep, that's why we're not to be found partaking of that wicked thing. We're not to be found in the world. We're to come out from among them and be separate. Alas, the opposite has happened, such that many are having issues with their worldly Caesarian identity (not their Christ identity) being "stolen" from them. It is truly the blind stealing from the blind.

That’s a good point.
“Come out from among them,” not just regarding false religious ideologies, but political ideologies too.

The Bible informs us that one of the ways in which human governments are united, is in opposing God’s rulership / sovereignty, and not relinquishing their own.
— Psalm 2:2

 

[Jack]

I heard a talk recently on this subject....identity theft is gaining momentum around the world......someone can steal your identity and ruin your reputation without you being able to prevent it, and often without you even being aware of it. The damage done can be long lasting as you try to prove that the debts incurred were not your doing. Sophisticated methods are used to impersonate you, and those not personally acquainted with you, will not know that the lies told by the impersonators, are not the truth.

But how old is identity theft? Does it have a history that goes way back?

The garden of Eden is a good place to start. The devil impersonated a snake to deceive the woman into breaking God’s command. So we can see where it originated. The repercussions were far reaching.

False prophets have also impersonated true prophets so as to get God’s people to do and believe what God said they should not.

False religion impersonates true religion, and that too causes people to engage in practices that God condemns, whist believing that they are serving real deities.

There were false Messiahs in Jesus’ day, trying to persuade people to follow them instead of the true Messiah.

The devil has always tried to get people to worship the wrong gods......he has provided a multitude of false gods who take people’s worship away from the true God by the deceptions he has created. Whole nations have adopted certain religious faiths which involve practices that God condemns....like idolatry and the giving of worship to many gods.....when no such gods exist in reality.

But the greatest identity theft of all was committed by the apostate church, after the first century, which Jesus himself foretold in his parable of the “wheat and the weeds”. (Matt 13:24-30; 36-42) Christianity was going to be hijacked by the devil who would create a counterfeit “Christian” religion, to take worship away from the true God and give it to a false god, who was manufactured by them under his influence.

“The church” set up by the “wolves” that Jesus warned about, (Matt 7:15-20) took over the faith and turned it into something completely foreign....teaching things and adopting practices that Christ never taught.
Gradually over time they managed to create a god that the Jews had never heard of. Their “one God” (Deut 6:4) was turned into three completely separate personalities who could talk to one another and be in three separate places at once.
Nowhere in all of Scripture will we find such a god....so this is the ultimate identity theft!
Passing this false god off as the true God....gradually introduced over time, “while men were sleeping”.....a deep spiritual sleep.

By misrepresenting the true God, they handed the majority over to a false god who was presented to them as the real one....yet he met no criteria contained in God’s word. This false god was read into ambiguous Scripture and no objection to its doctored beliefs were tolerated. Any dissenters were soon silenced, in the same way as the Jews silenced the prophets sent to correct them. (Matt 23:37-38)

Centuries of this indoctrination still keeps people in slavery to this false god. When the true God is identified, the majority reject him, just as the majority rejected Jesus as Messiah, despite the fact that he had all the necessary credentials.

After the death of the apostles, Jesus’ teachings became skewed and the truth was masked by lies taught to the ignorant masses for centuries, where there was no way to validate them. The church took the Bible away and punished anyone who dared to read or possess a copy.

The power they gained took them to dizzying heights where even Monarchs would not make a move without their counsel. They truly became “friends of the world”. (James 4:4)
We know that “power corrupts....and absolute over corrupts absolutely”.....the church was not spared from this, as it was foretold to take place......so why did God allow it?

The devil had made the claim in Eden that the humans did not need to obey God....they could do as they wished without penalty. The only way to show humans the folly of their disobedience was to allow the devil a free hand to show how successful the world would become under his rulership....so God gave it over to him, knowing full well that he could never succeed. (Luke 4:5-7)

At the same time, he would be able to see into the hearts of men, those who gladly swallowed the devil’s lies.....and those who refused to, often under penalty of death. The martyrs showed us what true faith is all about....refusing to submit to the counterfeit church or to adopt its practices.
The hopelessly divided church system fails miserably to imitate the one they claim as their “Lord”. (1 Cor 1:10)

All will answer to the true God for what they have accepted as their truth......we will all have to stand before the same judge duly appointed to that role. He will accept no excuses. (Matt 25:31-33; 41, 45-46; Matt 7:21-23)

The outcome will be shocking to the vast majority....those fooled into serving a false god...travelling in the company of the majority of mankind, blissfully ignorant of their destination. (Matt 7:13-14)

This identity theft will affect more than just our bank account.....
1 Corinthians 10:12.

Notice how Aunty who called Jesus Satanic, avoids quoting Scripture like plague!

 

[Stumpmaster]

Notice how Aunty who called Jesus Satanic, avoids quoting Scripture like plague!

Notice how Aunty who called Jesus Satanic, avoids quoting Scripture like plague!

No matter, such Scriptures are only fingertips away:

Here are some key Bible verses that declare Jesus as Lord:

1. Romans 10:9: “If you declare with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
2. Revelation 19:16: “On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.”
3. Matthew 28:18-20: “Then Jesus came to them and said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.’”
4. 1 Corinthians 8:6: “Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.”
5. 1 Corinthians 12:3: “Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, ‘Jesus be cursed,’ and no one can say, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ except by the Holy Spirit.”
6. Philippians 2:10-11: “That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

These verses highlight the divine authority and lordship of Jesus Christ. [Copilot]

 

[Aunty Jane]

No matter, such Scriptures are only fingertips away:

Here are some key Bible verses that declare Jesus as Lord:

Nobody is arguing that “Jesus is Lord”…..it is definitely one of his titles…..but what does that title mean? Is “Lord” another word for “God”? If you think so, then Abraham was “God” to Sarah. (1 Pet 3:6)

Its a shame you are only a parrot….if you do no study of your own and only copy what others say, how will you ever learn the truth?…..the people you quote wouldn’t know the truth if it jumped up and bit them….but that doesn’t seem to matter to you.

1. Romans 10:9: “If you declare with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

Yes, God raised Jesus from the dead. God was in heaven and Jesus was on earth. Is that two gods or one?

1. Revelation 19:16: “On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.”

Jesus has many titles…this is one of them.….but it should read….”King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords”…..speaking of earthly rulers here. You see the use of capital letters here….it indicates that what I am saying is true.

1. Matthew 28:18-20: “Then Jesus came to them and said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.’”

Who gave Jesus “all authority in heaven and on earth”? If he was God, he would already have such authority….do you never think things through logically? We need to read what the Bible says…not what we assume that it says.
To carry out a command “in the name of” someone, is to act with their authority. Nowhere does it even suggest that all three are God.

1. 1 Corinthians 8:6: “Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.”

Again…what is actually said, as opposed to what you think is said?
Who is the “one God” whom the apostles collectively acknowledged? And who is their “one Lord”… Jesus Christ”. Two separate beings are spoken of here….the third person is invariably missing in action in the majority of these verses. John 17:3 also springs to mind….why do we not need to know the Holy Spirit to gain everlasting life?

1. 1 Corinthians 12:3: “Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, ‘Jesus be cursed,’ and no one can say, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ except by the Holy Spirit.”

Yes “Jesus is Lord”…..which is a title akin to “Sir” or “Master”……it doesn’t say “Jesus is God”.

1. Philippians 2:10-11: “That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

Again, acknowledging that “Jesus is Lord TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER”….is not giving glory to himself.

Because you obviously don’t study the Bible, but take it as cursory reading, all these things seem to escape you…..take off the distorted lenses and see for yourself,….no scripture teaches what you believe.

These verses highlight the divine authority and lordship of Jesus Christ. [Copilot]

No one ever disputed Christ’s divine authority and lordship.…but his authority and lordship comes from his God and Father, not from himself.
The verses you quoted do not mean what you think they do….just the opposite in fact….

 

[Aunty Jane]

Notice how Aunty who called Jesus Satanic, avoids quoting Scripture like plague!

And this coming from one who is totally ignorant of Scripture is rich….where have I ever said that “Jesus is satanic”? And where do you see an absence of Scripture in my posts? Should you not look at your own?

You are nothing but a blind parrot Jack…I feel sorry for you….(2 Cor 4:3-4)

 

[Johann]

Who gave Jesus “all authority in heaven and on earth”? If he was God, he would already have such authority….do you never think things through logically? We need to read what the Bible says…not what we assume that it says.
To carry out a command “in the name of” someone, is to act with their authority. Nowhere does it even suggest that all three are God.

@Aunty Jane

Proving that Jesus is God to someone who holds the Jehovah's Witnesses' perspective, which denies the full divinity of Jesus, involves a careful approach rooted in Scripture, examining both the Old and New Testaments in light of the original languages and the broader context of Christian belief. Jehovah's Witnesses hold to the view that Jesus is a created being, the Archangel Michael, and not co-equal with God the Father. Therefore, it's important to focus on key scriptural points while also addressing common counterarguments they might raise.

Approach for the Debate:
Establish the Consistency of Scripture's Message
Point out that Scripture presents a consistent witness to Jesus’ divinity, both in prophetic references in the Old Testament and explicit declarations in the New Testament. Your goal is not just to rely on isolated verses, but to demonstrate a comprehensive scriptural argument.

Focus on Key Verses That Clearly Affirm Jesus' Divinity
You need to draw attention to verses that explicitly or implicitly affirm Jesus' deity while explaining any potential misinterpretations that Jehovah's Witnesses might use, especially focusing on Greek and Hebrew textual analysis where necessary.

1. John 1:1-3 (Lexham Bible Translation)
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being."

Jehovah's Witnesses Argument: They often use the New World Translation, which renders the phrase "the Word was a god," arguing that the lack of a definite article in the Greek allows for an indefinite rendering.

Counterargument: The Greek construction "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος" (kai theos ēn ho logos) does not require an article before "theos" for it to be definitive. The absence of the article is to stress that the Word (Jesus) shares the nature of God, not that He is merely "a god." Furthermore, this same term structure is used in John 1:6 and 1:18 to refer to the Father as "God" without an article, yet Jehovah's Witnesses translate these references as "God" with a capital G.

2. Colossians 1:16-17 (NKJV)
"For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist."

Jehovah's Witnesses Argument: They argue that Jesus is "the firstborn of all creation" (v. 15), implying He is a created being.

Counterargument: The term "firstborn" (Greek: prototokos) here refers to preeminence or supremacy, not to being the first created being. In Jewish culture, "firstborn" often signifies authority or status (see Psalm 89:27, where David is called the "firstborn" though he was the youngest). Colossians 1:16-17 affirms that Jesus is the Creator of "all things," which logically excludes Him from being a part of creation. You can point out that Jehovah’s Witnesses have added the word "other" to their translation of this verse to say "all other things," but this word is not present in the Greek manuscripts.

3. Philippians 2:6-7 (NKJV)
"who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men."

Jehovah's Witnesses Argument: They interpret Jesus as not claiming equality with God.

Counterargument: The phrase "being in the form of God" (Greek: en morphē theou) suggests that Jesus has the essential nature of God. The Greek word translated as "robbery" (harpagmos) means something to be grasped or exploited, meaning that Jesus did not regard His equality with God as something to hold onto at all costs, but willingly humbled Himself to take on human form.

4. John 20:28 (NKJV)
"And Thomas answered and said to Him, 'My Lord and my God!'"

Jehovah's Witnesses Argument: They might claim that Thomas was expressing surprise or using "God" in a lesser sense.

Counterargument: The Greek text leaves no room for this interpretation. Thomas' exclamation is a direct address to Jesus, and there is no indication in the context that he was using "God" in any diminutive or figurative sense. Jesus does not correct Thomas, but accepts the title, affirming His divinity.

5. Hebrews 1:8 (NKJV)
"But to the Son He says: 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.'"

Jehovah's Witnesses Argument: They might argue that the Son is being addressed as a lesser god or a ruler.

Counterargument: In this passage, God the Father directly calls the Son "God" (ho theos), clearly affirming His divine status. This is a quotation from Psalm 45:6-7, which speaks of the Messianic King in divine terms.

6. Isaiah 9:6 (NKJV)
"For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

Jehovah's Witnesses Argument: They may argue that the term "Mighty God" refers to a lesser deity since the term is El Gibbor rather than El Shaddai.

Counterargument: The term El Gibbor means "Mighty God," and this same title is used for Yahweh in Isaiah 10:21. There is no suggestion that it refers to a lesser being. The child in Isaiah 9:6 is called both "Mighty God" and "Everlasting Father," titles that can only be properly attributed to God Himself.

Additional Arguments and Responses:
7. Worship of Jesus
In several places in the New Testament, Jesus is worshipped (Matthew 14:33, Hebrews 1:6, Revelation 5:12-14). If Jesus were not God, this worship would be inappropriate, as worship is reserved for God alone (Exodus 20:3-5, Deuteronomy 6:13). The fact that Jesus receives worship, and it is not condemned, points to His divine status.

8. "I AM" Statement in John 8:58
In John 8:58, Jesus says, "Before Abraham was, I AM," echoing the divine name revealed to Moses in Exodus 3:14 ("I AM WHO I AM"). Jehovah's Witnesses may claim this refers to pre-existence, but the Jews understood this as a claim to divinity (John 8:59, where they attempted to stone Him for blasphemy).

9. Revelation 22:13
Jesus says, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last." In Isaiah 44:6, Yahweh uses the same titles to refer to Himself. This identification of Jesus with the Alpha and Omega demonstrates His equality with God.


Proving Jesus’ divinity “beyond a shadow of a doubt” requires not only emphasizing specific verses but also addressing typical objections from Jehovah’s Witnesses regarding the Greek text and context. By showing the consistent witness of Scripture-both Old and New Testaments-you can argue for the clear and unambiguous teaching that Jesus is fully divine, the second person of the Trinity, and not a created being or lesser god.

This is where I would disagree with you @Aunty Jane and like you I also study the Greek and Hebrew.
But I still love your sweet, gentle spirit.

J.

 

[Aunty Jane]

@Aunty Jane

Proving that Jesus is God to someone who holds the Jehovah's Witnesses' perspective, which denies the full divinity of Jesus, involves a careful approach rooted in Scripture, examining both the Old and New Testaments in light of the original languages and the broader context of Christian belief. Jehovah's Witnesses hold to the view that Jesus is a created being, the Archangel Michael, and not co-equal with God the Father. Therefore, it's important to focus on key scriptural points while also addressing common counterarguments they might raise.

Approach for the Debate:
Establish the Consistency of Scripture's Message
Point out that Scripture presents a consistent witness to Jesus’ divinity, both in prophetic references in the Old Testament and explicit declarations in the New Testament. Your goal is not just to rely on isolated verses, but to demonstrate a comprehensive scriptural argument.

Focus on Key Verses That Clearly Affirm Jesus' Divinity
You need to draw attention to verses that explicitly or implicitly affirm Jesus' deity while explaining any potential misinterpretations that Jehovah's Witnesses might use, especially focusing on Greek and Hebrew textual analysis where necessary.

1. John 1:1-3 (Lexham Bible Translation)
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being."

Jehovah's Witnesses Argument: They often use the New World Translation, which renders the phrase "the Word was a god," arguing that the lack of a definite article in the Greek allows for an indefinite rendering.

Counterargument: The Greek construction "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος" (kai theos ēn ho logos) does not require an article before "theos" for it to be definitive. The absence of the article is to stress that the Word (Jesus) shares the nature of God, not that He is merely "a god." Furthermore, this same term structure is used in John 1:6 and 1:18 to refer to the Father as "God" without an article, yet Jehovah's Witnesses translate these references as "God" with a capital G.

2. Colossians 1:16-17 (NKJV)
"For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist."

Jehovah's Witnesses Argument: They argue that Jesus is "the firstborn of all creation" (v. 15), implying He is a created being.

Counterargument: The term "firstborn" (Greek: prototokos) here refers to preeminence or supremacy, not to being the first created being. In Jewish culture, "firstborn" often signifies authority or status (see Psalm 89:27, where David is called the "firstborn" though he was the youngest). Colossians 1:16-17 affirms that Jesus is the Creator of "all things," which logically excludes Him from being a part of creation. You can point out that Jehovah’s Witnesses have added the word "other" to their translation of this verse to say "all other things," but this word is not present in the Greek manuscripts.

3. Philippians 2:6-7 (NKJV)
"who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men."

Jehovah's Witnesses Argument: They interpret Jesus as not claiming equality with God.

Counterargument: The phrase "being in the form of God" (Greek: en morphē theou) suggests that Jesus has the essential nature of God. The Greek word translated as "robbery" (harpagmos) means something to be grasped or exploited, meaning that Jesus did not regard His equality with God as something to hold onto at all costs, but willingly humbled Himself to take on human form.

4. John 20:28 (NKJV)
"And Thomas answered and said to Him, 'My Lord and my God!'"

Jehovah's Witnesses Argument: They might claim that Thomas was expressing surprise or using "God" in a lesser sense.

Counterargument: The Greek text leaves no room for this interpretation. Thomas' exclamation is a direct address to Jesus, and there is no indication in the context that he was using "God" in any diminutive or figurative sense. Jesus does not correct Thomas, but accepts the title, affirming His divinity.

5. Hebrews 1:8 (NKJV)
"But to the Son He says: 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.'"

Jehovah's Witnesses Argument: They might argue that the Son is being addressed as a lesser god or a ruler.

Counterargument: In this passage, God the Father directly calls the Son "God" (ho theos), clearly affirming His divine status. This is a quotation from Psalm 45:6-7, which speaks of the Messianic King in divine terms.

6. Isaiah 9:6 (NKJV)
"For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

Jehovah's Witnesses Argument: They may argue that the term "Mighty God" refers to a lesser deity since the term is El Gibbor rather than El Shaddai.

Counterargument: The term El Gibbor means "Mighty God," and this same title is used for Yahweh in Isaiah 10:21. There is no suggestion that it refers to a lesser being. The child in Isaiah 9:6 is called both "Mighty God" and "Everlasting Father," titles that can only be properly attributed to God Himself.

Additional Arguments and Responses:
7. Worship of Jesus
In several places in the New Testament, Jesus is worshipped (Matthew 14:33, Hebrews 1:6, Revelation 5:12-14). If Jesus were not God, this worship would be inappropriate, as worship is reserved for God alone (Exodus 20:3-5, Deuteronomy 6:13). The fact that Jesus receives worship, and it is not condemned, points to His divine status.

8. "I AM" Statement in John 8:58
In John 8:58, Jesus says, "Before Abraham was, I AM," echoing the divine name revealed to Moses in Exodus 3:14 ("I AM WHO I AM"). Jehovah's Witnesses may claim this refers to pre-existence, but the Jews understood this as a claim to divinity (John 8:59, where they attempted to stone Him for blasphemy).

9. Revelation 22:13
Jesus says, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last." In Isaiah 44:6, Yahweh uses the same titles to refer to Himself. This identification of Jesus with the Alpha and Omega demonstrates His equality with God.


Proving Jesus’ divinity “beyond a shadow of a doubt” requires not only emphasizing specific verses but also addressing typical objections from Jehovah’s Witnesses regarding the Greek text and context. By showing the consistent witness of Scripture-both Old and New Testaments-you can argue for the clear and unambiguous teaching that Jesus is fully divine, the second person of the Trinity, and not a created being or lesser god.

This is where I would disagree with you @Aunty Jane and like you I also study the Greek and Hebrew.
But I still love your sweet, gentle spirit.

J.

Can I ask who wrote that J? There is so much I could address here, but since this is a banned topic to debate, I would be happy to address these issues one by one via PM.

I have studied all these Scriptures thoroughly using well established resources to prove that what is inferred about our beliefs is not factually true.
The Scriptures used here are based on Christendom’s doctrines formed long after Christ’s death….they were never taught by Jesus or his apostles. They misrepresent who Jesus is, who he was, and what he will be in the future.

What my brothers did was to go back to Genesis and start at the beginning to establish what is truth and what is fiction. To examine every doctrine in the light of all Scripture to see if they were all in harmony….we know that the Bible does not contradict itself….but Christendom’s doctrines contradict the Scriptures.

It was a long process, carefully and prayerfully undertaken…..and especially at this point in time (the time of the end) was it prophesied to be undertaken by God in the book of Daniel, some 500 years before the birth of Christ.

The Christ does not exist divided…..but he does in Christendom, where there is little consensus on much of anything except the foundational beliefs upon which they all magically agree. The trinity, immortality of the human soul and heaven or hell as destinations for deceased mankind. I have not found any of these teachings in the Bible…..but they all exist in false worship.

What made Yahweh, the God of the Jews unique? He was a singular entity who was to be worshipped exclusively. (Deut 6:4: Luke 4:5-8) Abraham, the only human described as “Jehovah’s friend” knew his God only as one. There was expectation of a Messiah, but he was a bit of a mystery until Jesus presented himself at the Jordan to begin his mission. He never once said he was God.

There was no immortal soul taken to spiritual destinations, depending on their conduct in this life, seen as some kind of training ground for the afterlife.
Jews had no belief in an afterlife such as was believed in paganism……theirs was full faith in the resurrection, which was a restoration of life rather than a continuation of it In some spiritual realm.
They would “sleep” in death until the resurrection in the future, when the Kingdom of God was ruling mankind.

These things are in total agreement with what Scripture teaches and always has. It is in direct contrast to what is taught in Christendom’s churches, however. So what is the truth? It’s there, but we have find the diamond in a pile of broken glass.

 

[Jack]

And this coming from one who is totally ignorant of Scripture is rich….where have I ever said that “Jesus is satanic”? And where do you seen an absence of Scripture in my posts? Should you not look at your own?

You are nothing but a blind parrot Jack…I feel sorry for you….(2 Cor 4:3-4)

I know you called Jesus Satanic! Who's the blind parrot Aunty?

 

[Johann]

I know you called Jesus Satanic! Who's the blind parrot Aunty?

No she doesn't @Jack and you should be reported for this.

J.

 

[Jack]

No she doesn't @Jack and you should be reported for this.

J.

How do you know? Are you lying for JW's?

Aunty even called the ChristianityBoard statement of Faith Satanic! Want proof? I have it.

 

[Johann]

How do you know? Are you lying for JW's?

I know and you better retract your vicious statement to a sister in Christ Jesus.

J.

 

[Jack]

I know and you better

You don't know much then. Are you JW?

retract your vicious statement to a sister in Christ Jesus.

J.

I will repeat! Aunty said Jesus and the ChristianityBoard statement of Faith are Satanic! I have Aunty's comment!

 

[Aunty Jane]

Thank you J….he is not aware of how unchristian his conduct is…..his agenda is hate. There is no love in anything he posts.

The board identifies as “Christianity” and it is a debate and discussion site that allows civil discussion on many subjects. I hope to engage in those subjects as civilly as I can….but people like Jack are so closed minded and “hell bent” on judging those who have an alternate view, that there can be no discussion.

Anyone who disagrees with him must be a JW….

God will judge us all……it will be interesting to see who is still standing and who is missing when the dust settles…..

 

[Jack]

Thank you J….he is not aware of how unchristian his conduct is…..his agenda is hate. There is no love in anything he posts.

If I hated JW's I would let you continue down Kingdom Hall / Hallway to Hell fire that Jesus warned you about.

The board identifies as “Christianity” and it is a debate and discussion site that allows civil discussion on many subjects. I hope to engage in those subjects as civilly as I can….but people like Jack are so closed minded and “hell bent” on judging those who have an alternate view, that there can be no discussion.

The board???

Anyone who disagrees with him must be a JW….

That's a lie! A BIG LIE! Just like Satan!

God will judge us all……it will be interesting to see who is still standing and who is missing when the dust settles…..

Yes, Jesus will Judge us all!

Matthew 25:41
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[Berean]

Notice how Aunty who called Jesus Satanic, avoids quoting Scripture like plague!

Hmm ... where does she say that?

 

[Jack]

Hmm ... where does she say that?

Are you JW?