If Christian Universalism is true, what's the point in evangelism?

[Lizbeth]

Please read this entire passage in context....Paul is clearly addressing the resurrection of the dead and countering those who say there is no resurrection of the dead. Certainly it is true that we are spiritually made alive when we come to faith in Christ, but that is just not what is particularly being addressed in this passage.

1Co 15:12-23

Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


_____________________

 

[amigo de christo]

Verily verily i say unto thee
if the jesus one beleives and hopes in speaks contrary in any way to the JESUS in the scriptures
THEN it aint JESUS and it wont save them . Many do tend to baulk and create avenues of escape ,
escape from the VERY TRUTH . And that my friend is their own delusion as they follow another jesus
created of men that always honors what their own heart desired to follow , and it always pleases the flesh .
For many do not take heed to the Fact that had one truly BELEIVED on JESUS they had beleived HIS WORDS
and their LOVE would have been first and formost upon HIM , upon GOD .
But many now follow a senusual love that has only led them into greater darkness and rebellion Against HIM .
SO a quick summation .
IF love seems to have a problem with TRUTH , with the words of GOD and of CHRIST and later of the apostels
WELL THEN , IT AINT OF GOD , IT OF THE WORLD .
and now a word .
He who loves the world is THE ENEMY OF GOD. OH yes . And can this be proven . YES .
For look at what their love has caused them to do , TO CAST OUT the words of GOD , seeing things HE said
as HATE , and as hateful . THEY declare war against him , by their love . And yet believe THEY SERVE HIM .
Nope . they serve another who FIRST REBELLLED against GOD and has led them into greater rebellion against GOD as well .
DO i need to even say WHO that one is . THE DEVIL . WE got us a delusion my friend
that was poured out by an ecumeincal harlot .e `

 

[St. SteVen]

The passage itself tells us what is meant by "each in turn".....Christ the firstfruits had to be resurrected first, and "afterward THEY THAT ARE CHRIST'S at His coming".

What is the difference between the firstfruits and those who belong to Christ?
It seems to me that the firstfruits are the Elect and then everyone else follows.

Don't you believe that the unrighteous will be resurrected to judgement?

 

[St. SteVen]

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

This doesn't limit the resurrection from the dead. It says the dead will be resurrected.

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

It is a bit confusing that Christ is ALSO called the firstfruits.

 

[St. SteVen]

"Love your enemies..."- Matthew 5:43-48

 

[St. SteVen]

Grasping at a few cherry-picked verses is a grasping at straws.

Straining out a gnat while swallowing a camel.
What do your views say about God's character?

Matthew 23:24 NIV
You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

What does God's character tell us about the Bible?​

What does the hell doctrine say about the character of God?​

God's character informs the purpose of his justice​

The Character of God - Reader Poll​

Open Discussion of UR Chapter Three - God's character​

 

[amigo de christo]

few know or see my friend . For their hopes are in men .
They cannot see
that the very problems created by one hand was the will of THE ESTABLISHMENT
to lead them to the proposed solution , WHICH IS ALSO OF SAME ESTABLISHMENT .
And nations of the west cry to their children
and nations of communism , china russia and the rest cry to their children
WE HAVE TO WIN THIS DIGITAL RACE .
AND YET neither of them realizes
HEY , YOO HOO , ITS THE ONE SAME DIGITAL SYSTEM THAT WILL RUN YOU ALL
ITS THE PLAN OF THE WORLD GOVT . I never seen such delusion .
But we were warned DELUSION would be rampant in the last days .

 

[Lizbeth]

What is the difference between the firstfruits and those who belong to Christ?
It seems to me that the firstfruits are the Elect and then everyone else follows.

Don't you believe that the unrighteous will be resurrected to judgement?

The members of His body are called firstfruits in a slightly different sense than Christ.....As Christ was the firstfruits of the members of His body, through being the firstfruit sacrifice on behalf of believers, the members of His body go on to being a kind of firstfruits of all those they have a hand in saving (harvest of souls) through our witness, intercession and labouring in and preaching of the gospel.

Yes, the unrighteous will be resurrected to judgment....but they are not resurrected to eternal life. It's either one or the other.

Dan 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Luk 14:14
And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

Jhn 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Lizbeth]

Straining out a gnat while swallowing a camel.
What do your views say about God's character?

Matthew 23:24 NIV
You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

What does God's character tell us about the Bible?​

What does the hell doctrine say about the character of God?​

God's character informs the purpose of his justice​

The Character of God - Reader Poll​

Open Discussion of UR Chapter Three - God's character​

God's character is such that He gave free will to men....and they are free to choose either death or life., to seek the Lord and Truth or not to. His character is pure and holy....He will not tolerate and dwell with the filth and iniquity of this world forever. As I already said you want to judge by what your natural eyes can see.....you have no idea what is in the heart of fallen man but God knows and sees what we cannot....."the heart is deceitfully wicked, who can know it". Heaven's vantage point is not your much more limited vantage point, as if you know better than Him.

God's character is such that in His mercy has already provided a way to be saved from the wrath (justice) to come, for those who are willing to accept it...Christ is that Way, the only Way. His character is such also that He will not be mocked....and we are to behold and be aware of both His goodness as well as His severity. All these things speak to His character.

Are we awake to what this world is yet? We really should be since God is exposing it in these days. This world is owned by and run by filthy rich Satan worshiping deluded degenerates.....because the devil gives his kingdom to those he wishes....to those who bow down and worship him and have sold their soul to him for riches and power.....just as he tempted Jesus with. This is why it says "what does it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his own soul?" See now why it is necessary to no longer be of this world before it meets its demise, or else be caught up in its demise....? And I think it basically will destroy itself....Satan's kingdom is divided against itself and as Jesus said, that is why it will end because a house divided cannot stand. Jesus also said there will be wars until the end....and Revelation warns that there will be an hour of trial that will come upon the whole world. It all is going to break in pieces and come crashing down and only those who are in Christ, God's people, will be delivered, and kept from it.

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes, the unrighteous will be resurrected to judgment....but they are not resurrected to eternal life. It's either one or the other.

Are they dead or alive during the judgement? (they are resurrected from the dead, right?)

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic:

What should we expect from God? - If it's not asking too much...

Some would say NOTHING. They would say NOTHING because God has already given so much. Okay, there's something to that. But is that it? In Christian culture there's an unwritten rule that we aren't allowed to criticize God. Who are we as mere humans to be so bold? What right do we have to...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Lizbeth]

Are they dead or alive during the judgement? (they are resurrected from the dead, right?)

1 Cor 15 is talking about "those who are Christ's at His coming"....the resurrection of life, not the resurrection of damnation.

 

[St. SteVen]

1 Cor 15 is talking about "those who are Christ's at His coming"....the resurrection of life, not the resurrection of damnation.

That's your biased misunderstanding. You are reading more into the scripture than is actually there.
It's simple, but you make it difficult.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

 

[Lizbeth]

That's your biased misunderstanding. You are reading more into the scripture than is actually there.
It's simple, but you make it difficult.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Hoo boy. "....so IN CHRIST all will be made alive"... who are in Christ, which means who belong to Christ. All died who were in Adam, and it happens that literally all were in Adam (born of him) and that is why literally all died. That is not the case with Christ....not literally all mankind are in Him (born of Him) so not literally all will be made alive. Only all who are in Christ will be made alive...resurrected to eternal life. And you are ignoring the two different resurrections...one is to eternal life and the other to everlasting shame and contempt/damnation.

Still waiting for you to expound the doctrine of universal salvation......as opposed to cherry-picking two or three wrongly divided verses. Jesus and the apostles and prophets simply weren't teaching/preaching universal salvation. They were all warning of a coming day when all sinners will perish....be destroyed. You have never answered my question about how you explain perish, perdition, destruction.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
That's your biased misunderstanding. You are reading more into the scripture than is actually there.
It's simple, but you make it difficult.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Hoo boy. "....so IN CHRIST all will be made alive"... who are in Christ, which means who belong to Christ.

Thanks for proving my point.
You can't make that scripture say what you want without juggling the words around or adding words that aren't there.

Are those IN Adam really in Adam? (in the same way) ???
"For as" and "so in" means in the same way.

 

[St. SteVen]

Still waiting for you to expound the doctrine of universal salvation......

Romans chapter five works well.
This scripture says twice the same thing as 1 Corinthians 15:22.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

 

[Lizbeth]

Romans chapter five works well.
This scripture says twice the same thing as 1 Corinthians 15:22.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

The bible ALSO says justification is through FAITH....salvation is through FAITH in Christ. And that not all have this faith. This is another example of cherry picking and not rightly dividing the cherry picked passages together with the whole counsel of God..

 

[Lizbeth]

St. SteVen said:
That's your biased misunderstanding. You are reading more into the scripture than is actually there.
It's simple, but you make it difficult.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Thanks for proving my point.
You can't make that scripture say what you want without juggling the words around or adding words that aren't there.

Are those IN Adam really in Adam? (in the same way) ???
"For as" and "so in" means in the same way.

The words are there...."in Christ" is there. "Those who belong to Christ" is there. But we need ears to hear, I don't know how else to explain it.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Romans chapter five works well.
This scripture says twice the same thing as 1 Corinthians 15:22.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

The bible ALSO says justification is through FAITH....salvation is through FAITH in Christ. And that not all have this faith. This is another example of cherry picking and not rightly dividing the cherry picked passages together with the whole counsel of God..

Also?
A seeming contradiction then? - LOL

Yes, salvation is through Christ. Every knee will bow and every tongue confess...
in heaven, on earth and under the earth. (in the realm of the dead)

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

The words are there...."in Christ" is there. "Those who belong to Christ" is there. But we need ears to hear, I don't know how else to explain it.

No. "Those who belong to Christ" is not there.
Who belongs to Adam?

Don't know how else to explain it?
Why not take it at face value? (without adding to or subtracting from the scriptures)