Except that the quoted passage has absolutely nothing to say about demon possession or strongholds. It is all about Paul's physical infirmity (probably poor eyesight as seen in context).
If Christians Can't Have Demons Debate Me (You Won't Do It) Show Me In Scripture!!
- Thread starter DoveSpirit05
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ohh so coz you say it dat settles it? According 2 you and not According 2 scripture and not and paul and not the Christian theocracy. So lets go with sarx meaning the the body as ull find in most linguistics that is what it mostly means and as you can see the majority of the translations I put up say's fleshly body, dis is the relivant interpretation for this scenario as you said or ull have 2 show me otherwise now once again deal wiv gal 4:15 and 2 corith 12:7 with sarx meaning body!!
Hello Dove, you have been provided the scriptures, from God's Word and God's Word is not my words but God's. You can choose to believe them or not believe them. It is up to you. It is your OP and you asked for the scirptures and were given them. Now you been given the scriptures you do not believe them. There is no such thing as a demon possessed Chrsitian according to God's Word. True Chrstians have God's Spirit not the spirits of devils.
Be blessed and receive God's Word.
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As posted earlier the Greek word σάρξ; sarx (flesh; sinful human nature; carnal mind) has many meaning and applications depending on the context that it is used. In Romans 7 and Romans 8 is it used interchangably between many translations and means everything in the Greek definition meaning whole body and carnal mind (flesh). The idea behind Romans 7 is that in the flesh (whole body and mind); with the lusts of the flesh (body) that are not controlled by the spiritual mind (Faith in God's Word); these desires of the flesh (body and unconverted mind) lead us to sin (breaking God's commandments). That is why Paul says in...
Romans 7:24-25 [24], O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? [25], I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
What Paul is saying here is that it is through faith in God's Word that our mind has control over the body (σάρξ; sarx 4561; flesh, carnal desires; sinful human nature). Romans 7 is the experience of the unconverted (mind) man leading to Romans 7:24-25 (converted mind serving God's Word) and conversion in Romans 8 and walking in the Spirit in Galatians 5:16.
As to Galatians 4:15 and 2 Corinthians 12:7 they have nothing to do with demon possission and flesh or carnal mind (σάρξ; sarx 4561; flesh) is not used in these scriptures.
Hope this helps
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Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
I don’t understand, are you suggesting the thorn in Paul’s flesh was a demon?
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Actually in 2 Corinthians the flesh is what in my opinion is what’s in question,
2 Corinthians 10:2-5 KJV
[2] But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. [3] For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: [4] (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
[5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;Someone is whispering in the Corinthians ears, (a messenger of Satan) this is the thorn in Paul’s flesh judaizers trying to assassinate Paul’s character. And no wonder they claim they have light which would be a different gospel.
https://tbibl.es/1bLe
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Likewise Gal 4 another body being assaulted by judaizers.
Galatians 4:17,21 KJV
[17] They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them. [21] Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
ask yourself who are they?
Messengers of Satan.
https://tbibl.es/8V6K
you havnt addressed my points nor the verse's I brought up because you know it refutes your belief, a debate is when people address each others points!! all your doing is special pleading and cherry picking what I said before but I addressed your points and verses you brought up!!
ok i'm going 2 address (Mr holy of holy's, i'm so righteous and pure!! I can never have anything bad in me, i'm made from incorruptible flesh)
3rdAngel even tho romans 7:18 says (in the flesh dwells no good thing)!!
since he wont address my points!!
1st off when a person is born again its the spirit in them that is born again not the flesh!! there's
no super transformation of the flesh!! The flesh is corruptible and will die as in genesis 2:17 when commands adam not 2 eat of the tree. but the soul and spirit will live on.
2nd if your saying a person who is born again is so immune to a demon are you also saying their even immune to even the devil coz the devil
even came inside peter and he’s more righteous then me and you and all of this forum so you explain that one?
3rd for the umpteenth time I’ve never said Christians can be possessed check all my threads for those who keep saying that, you people only here what u wanna hear man and make too many assumptions.
A Christian is oppressed, sheshly by satan, they go through infirmities like paul did. A person oppressed can still function normally they still have control of there members they just go through same travil, but a
Person who is possessed has no control over their members what so ever and are under the control of the demon, they don’t have Gods hedge of protection at all, their completely exposed to the enemy!!
4th just because a person is born again doesn’t mean they wont sin but 3rd angel seams to think so. God called Noah perfect in his generation and he still sinned.
3rdAngel even tho romans 7:18 says (in the flesh dwells no good thing)!!
since he wont address my points!!
1st off when a person is born again its the spirit in them that is born again not the flesh!! there's
no super transformation of the flesh!! The flesh is corruptible and will die as in genesis 2:17 when commands adam not 2 eat of the tree. but the soul and spirit will live on.
2nd if your saying a person who is born again is so immune to a demon are you also saying their even immune to even the devil coz the devil
even came inside peter and he’s more righteous then me and you and all of this forum so you explain that one?
3rd for the umpteenth time I’ve never said Christians can be possessed check all my threads for those who keep saying that, you people only here what u wanna hear man and make too many assumptions.
A Christian is oppressed, sheshly by satan, they go through infirmities like paul did. A person oppressed can still function normally they still have control of there members they just go through same travil, but a
Person who is possessed has no control over their members what so ever and are under the control of the demon, they don’t have Gods hedge of protection at all, their completely exposed to the enemy!!
4th just because a person is born again doesn’t mean they wont sin but 3rd angel seams to think so. God called Noah perfect in his generation and he still sinned.
whats so funny man?
I'm going 2 address ur point but 1st repeat right here what you called me before!! be a man and admit it right here!! when you compared me 2 beezlebub, 2 put it politely, nows ur opportunity, stand by your statement!!
yes coz it says in 2 Corinth 12:7 satan have sent a "messenger" which is "angel" in the greek, to buffet me, wat else can it be, satan doesn't send good angels does he!!
sarx Is mostly identified as (bodly flesh, flesh 2 bone) I agree it says nature in the translation but that's what it can be associated with within jewish context, its mealy an allegory u could say, jewish people used it as a term!! seams like ur just picking and choosing wat interpretation to use 2 suit you!!
actually uv done it again uv just mentioned other verses dat are not relevant 2 the verses I mentioned, yes romans 7-8 is talking about the sinful nature (sarx) I agree, but gal 4:15 and 2 corith 12:7 is talking about the flesh body (sarx) and all uv done is mention my two verses but not give any explanation and uv also just lied and said flesh is not in the scriptures when it clearly is, nice try!!
addressing 3rdAngel
Gal 4:13 - Ye know how through "infirmity" of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.
infirmity - ἀσθένεια
want of strength, weakness, infirmity
(Gal 4:13 - Ye know how through "Sin nature" of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first)
Makes no sense!!
infirmity - ἀσθένεια
want of strength, weakness, infirmity
- of the body
- its native weakness and frailty
- feebleness of health or sickness
- its native weakness and frailty
- want of strength and capacity requisite
- to understand a thing
- to do things great and glorious
- to restrain corrupt desires
- to bear trials and troubles
- to understand a thing
(Gal 4:13 - Ye know how through "Sin nature" of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first)
Makes no sense!!
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Ok, just take a close look at 2 Corinthians 11, and consider satan transforms himself into a messenger of light= false gospel.
2 Corinthians 11:4,13-14 KJV
[4] For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. [13] For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Now think, who is Paul referring to here?
https://tbibl.es/7nLv
Sure I did. You just did not believe the scriptures provided and sent as a help to you. There is nothing in God's Word that says that those who are true Christians that abide in Christ and receive his Spirit get demon possessed. It is you my dear friend that is cherry picking the scriptures to try and make them say things they are not saying. Your interpretation of the scriptures are simply not biblical.
Love is a fruit of the Spirit. If you have no love what Spirit are you showing? There is no need to be unfriendly my friend
According to the scriptures there is no good thing that dwells in the carnal mind or sinful human nature which is the unconverted mind that is controlled by the lusts of the body. That is why Paul is showing we need a new mind and heart in *ROMANS 7:24-25 [24], O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? [25], I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. This leads us to the new covenant promise of HEBREWS 8:10-12 from JEREMIAH 31:31-36.
Now Dove that is not true. All your points have been addressed. What point have you made that has not been addressed through the scriptures? Also, what scripture have you provided that says born again Christian that abide in Christ get demon possessed? Yep not a single scripture because there is none.
I have said no such thing. Where did I say say to you that it is the flesh that is born again? If I have never said such things why are you pretending that I have? So your post here is a mute point no one has said or is arguing about and if no one has said what you are claiming why do you pretend that they have?
You seem confused here. God's Spirit was not given to the disciples of JESUS while JESUS was with them on earth. This did not happen until after the resurrection and pentecost when JESUS said it would be given. Your claims here are false ones as I have never said that God's people are immune to temptations to sin and cannot turn away from God through temptations. These are simply your words again trying to pretend I have said things I never have.
Perhaps if you feel many people have a misunderstanding of what your trying to say then maybe it is the way you are writing that has given people a misunderstanding? For example have a look at your OP title "If Christians Can't Have Demons Debate Me (You Won't Do It) Show Me In Scripture!!". Just reading this gives the impression your trying to argue that Christians can be demon possessed. Sure Christians go through trials and can be harrassed. That is not demon possession. I am sure no one would disagree with that.
Here you go again claiming things I have never said or believed. I have never said a born again Chrstian will never sin. According to the scriptures they do not practice known sin. This is the meaning of 1 JOHN 3:6. Salvation is from sin not to continue in it *JOHN 8:31-36. If you continue in sin you will die *HEBREWS 10:26-39. It is not God's will that his people practice sin. If any man sin however we have an advocate with the father *1 JOHN 2:1-4.
May you receive God's Word and be blessed.
Nonsense! It is the context of application that determines both Greek and Hebrew words meanings as most words used have more than one meaning. You were given examples and application applied to Romans 7 and Romans 8 applied to the context within the scriptures and chapters. It seems like you are the one picking and choosing what suits you.
Well I am glad you agree now, but you just contradicted yourself with what you wrote above.
Firstly Galatians 4:15 says nothing about body, flesh or sarx. Do you mean Galatians 4:14? Maybe you need to go back and re-edit your posts. As posted here earlier this is referring to temptation in the flesh. We all have temptations in the flesh in one form or another and need God's salvation to deliver us from them. So I did not lie you gave wrong references as I checked v15 earlier to try and understand what you were talking about and it did not make any sense to what you were claiming it was saying.
Hope this helps.
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