If Jesus came from a Spiritual entity...

[KingdomCome]

[sup]7[/sup] Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

If every eye shall see Him, is He a singular male individual? Or, could he be the Light and the Glory and the temple of God on the earth? Could Christ Jesus be as Paul saw Him:

Acts 26:
12 Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests,
13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.
14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision...

Matthew 5:
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

John 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

Blessings to you all...[sup]
[/sup]

 

[KingdomCome]

I have seen this Light — as did Paul — the Light of the World — when Christ Jesus came to sup with me. The Light went away by receding into Heaven and I am now seeing the return of the Light manifest in the mortal flesh of believers. I see the Kingdom coming to the earth, as did John in the Revelation.

Ro 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

2Co 4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

2Co 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus’ sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

2Co 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Php 1:13 So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other places;

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

The Life is the Light of men:

Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Joh 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

 

[Joshua David]

I have seen this Light — as did Paul — the Light of the World — when Christ Jesus came to sup with me. The Light went away by receding into Heaven and I am now seeing the return of the Light manifest in the mortal flesh of believers. I see the Kingdom coming to the earth, as did John in the Revelation.

Ro 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

2Co 4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

2Co 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus’ sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

2Co 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Php 1:13 So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other places;

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

The Life is the Light of men:

Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Joh 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Honestly Kingdom these are the exact reason that I believe we will not have blood in our glorified bodies but will be filled with the light of the Shekinah Glory of God. This will be what will make our bodies glorious. Now I will freely admit that this is my OPINION, and I can't really prove this from the scriptures. But I see the Shekinah Glory as a form of energy. And I have not trouble believing that energy can form into matter and matter can form into energy. I do believe that we will have physical bodies, that will walk on physical streets of gold, down to a physical river of life, that are surrounded on both sides with physical trees of life that produce 12 different physical types of fruits every month, that we can eat while we are enjoying the physical City of God, the New Jerusalem.

Joshua David

 

[KingdomCome]

Honestly Kingdom these are the exact reason that I believe we will not have blood in our glorified bodies but will be filled with the light of the Shekinah Glory of God. This will be what will make our bodies glorious. Now I will freely admit that this is my OPINION, and I can't really prove this from the scriptures. But I see the Shekinah Glory as a form of energy. And I have not trouble believing that energy can form into matter and matter can form into energy. I do believe that we will have physical bodies, that will walk on physical streets of gold, down to a physical river of life, that are surrounded on both sides with physical trees of life that produce 12 different physical types of fruits every month, that we can eat while we are enjoying the physical City of God, the New Jerusalem.

Joshua David

I know this to be true...I understand that the workings of God is the Light and that Light is energy (energeia).

Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

working/workings:
1753 energeia energeia en-erg'-i-ah

from 1756; TDNT - 2:652,251; n f

KJV - working 4, effectual working 2, operation 1, strong 1; 8

1) working, efficiency
1a) in the NT used only of superhuman power, whether of God or of the Devil

Col 1:
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

1Cor:
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.

The Spirit and the Life and the Light can be gloriously transformed by the workings/energy of God and the Son into any earthly body. The Light is the energy of God — Jesus Christ is the Light of the world.

Blessings to you...

 

[[email protected]]

So, is Christ Jesus a physical male individual in Heaven and the Kingdom thereof? — Is Jesus a flesh and blood person in Heaven?

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Blessings and thanks for your responses...

You've misquoted the scripture by selection. Go back a few verses and learn how the author is making a distinction between earthly and heavenly bodies and persons.
The earthly cannot inherit the Kingdom of God while the heavenly CAN.

Jesus IS A FLESH AND BLOOD person in heaven. Go and read the first dozen verses of the book of Acts as well as the end of the last chapters of Mark and Luke. In those accounts Jesus ascended into heaven IN PHYSICAL FORM.

 

[KingdomCome]

If the "workings" of God (energia) can be transformed into mass and the physical man Jesus, and the earth and all things created, would it be possible that after the Resurrection, Christ Jesus could have ascended and been transformed back into that which He was prior to the creation — to be "one" with the Father. Could He now be that which He is now described to be as He is now in heavenly places?

Rev 21:
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Nations, I will assume, cannot walk within a flesh and blood person, however, nations could walk in a temple of Light.

Christ Jesus says:

Mt 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Joh 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Joh 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

Christ Jesus is here and "in" this world now — He is "in" those who believe and those who believe are "in" Him.

World:
2889 kosmov kosmos kos'-mos

probably from the base of 2865; TDNT - 3:868,459; n m

KJV - world 186, adorning 1; 187

1) an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
2) ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1Pe 3:3
3) the world, the universe
4) the circle of the earth, the earth
5) the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
6) the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
7) world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
7a) the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
8) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
8a) the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Ro 11:12 etc)
8b) of believers only, Joh 1:29; 3:16; 3:17; 6:33; 12:47 1Co 4:9; 2Co 5:19

1Joh 5:
1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Sorry about the long message...

 

[Joshua David]

If the "workings" of God (energia) can be transformed into mass and the physical man Jesus, and the earth and all things created, would it be possible that after the Resurrection, Christ Jesus could have ascended and been transformed back into that which He was prior to the creation — to be "one" with the Father. Could He now be that which He is now described to be as He is now in heavenly places?

Kingdom, let me ask you a question... What do you have against a physical Heaven? A physical city, with physical streets of gold, surrounded by physical walls that have physical gates, with a physical river of life, surrounded by physical trees of life, that produce physical fruit?

Do I think that it is possible that Jesus returned to his pre-incarnate state? I guess it could be possible, I just don't see a need for it.

Joshua David

 

[Alethos]

Honestly Kingdom these are the exact reason that I believe we will not have blood in our glorified bodies but will be filled with the light of the Shekinah Glory of God. This will be what will make our bodies glorious. Now I will freely admit that this is my OPINION, and I can't really prove this from the scriptures. But I see the Shekinah Glory as a form of energy. And I have not trouble believing that energy can form into matter and matter can form into energy. I do believe that we will have physical bodies, that will walk on physical streets of gold, down to a physical river of life, that are surrounded on both sides with physical trees of life that produce 12 different physical types of fruits every month, that we can eat while we are enjoying the physical City of God, the New Jerusalem.

Joshua David

You are right Joshua,

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

FLESH & BLOOD is abhorent to God...its weak and beggerly and cannot withstand the light of His presence.

Thats why Jesus nailed it to the cross.

We will be able to touch and hold Jesus but he will not need flesh and blood but can take the form of a person with bodily appearence.

Alethos

 

[KingdomCome]

Kingdom, let me ask you a question... What do you have against a physical Heaven? A physical city, with physical streets of gold, surrounded by physical walls that have physical gates, with a physical river of life, surrounded by physical trees of life, that produce physical fruit?

Do I think that it is possible that Jesus returned to his pre-incarnate state? I guess it could be possible, I just don't see a need for it.

Joshua David

I have nothing against a physical and heavenly Kingdom on this earth — I just believe what the Bible says — Christ Jesus, now, according to John, is the Lamb and the Light and the Glory of the Father in Heaven. As described, Christ Jesus is not physical now — there is no reason He could not return to the earth a physical individual person. However, now, He is the Light and the Glory of the Father that every person who believes resides in, moreover, He (Christ Jesus the Light of the world) resides in those who believe and who are His body here and now. Remember please, the first thing God said, "Let there be Light...". In Heaven now (as He was then), Christ Jesus is the Light — Christ Jesus is the beginning and the ending — So, I reiterate. "Let there be Light..." When thine eye is single there is Light. (Lu 11:34)

Rev 21:
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Blessings

 

[Joshua David]

I have nothing against a physical and heavenly Kingdom on this earth

You may not have anything against it, but you do you believe it? Do you think Jesus is right now building a physical, tangible place? Do you think we will walk on physical streets of gold?

Joshua David

 

[KingdomCome]

2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

I know Christ Jesus as Paul did — The Light of the world...

Acts 26:
12 Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests,
13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.
14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

I no longer know Christ Jesus after the flesh — I know the Lamb as the Light and the Glory of God, moreover, in Him there is no darkness.

God the Father is Light. Christ Jesus, the Son of God, is the Light of the world. Christ Jesus is "...the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." — John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Those who believe and are raised with Christ, live in the last day (where there is no darkness) and not the plurality of the last days (or daze) where there is the darkness of wars and rumors of war.

There will be many false prophets — so please remember:
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Though I am nobody, Christ Jesus is my Saviour — I have seen the Light and the Kingdom of God — I am born again, thanks to Christ Jesus.

Blessings

 

[Joshua David]

But I wasn't asking about Jesus, I was asking about Heaven. Do you see Heaven as being a physical place, with physical locations, and physical dimensions?

Joshua David

 

[KingdomCome]

You may not have anything against it, but you do you believe it? Do you think Jesus is right now building a physical, tangible place? Do you think we will walk on physical streets of gold?

Joshua David

Rev 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

When Christ Jesus is in every person on this planet, there will be a new heaven and a new earth — here on earth — the old will have passed away. God the Father and the Son (the Lamb) will be the temple of it and kingdoms will walk in the Light of it. Yes, I do believe Christ Jesus is building a physical and tangible place on this earth that will be forever — as was the garden of Eden. The onus then, the believers duty and responsibility, is to (with all they have) labour to enter that rest.

Heb 4:
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Matt 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

1Cor 10:24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another’s wealth.

Because I am born again, and I see the Kingdom of God, I will seek the Kingdom for every person by giving to them freely the Words of Christ which "...are Spirit and they are Life."

My own words and works are to no avail...

Christ Jesus said:
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Blessings