If Jesus came from a Spiritual entity...

[KingdomCome]

If Jesus came from a Spiritual entity...

Why could He not return (after His resurrection and in His ascension) to and be as and what He was prior to being born in a physical body — one with the Father?

1Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Is Christ Jesus, in Heaven, a man of the flesh?

Or could He be...

Rev 21:
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

Blessings

 

[Duckybill]

If Jesus came from a Spiritual entity...

Colossians 1:16 (NKJV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For BY HIM ALL THINGS WERE CREATED that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.

 

[Angelina]

Amen!

Colossians 1:16 (NKJV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For BY HIM ALL THINGS WERE CREATED that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.

Daniel 10
5 I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, a certain man clothed in linen, whose waist was girded with gold of Uphaz! 6 His body was like beryl, his face like the appearance of lightning, his eyes like torches of fire, his arms and feet like burnished bronze in color, and the sound of his words like the voice of a multitude.

Philippians 2
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Revelation 1
12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead.

Revelation 2
18 “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write,
‘These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass:

Blessings!!!

 

[Duckybill]

Daniel 10
5 I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, a certain man clothed in linen, whose waist was girded with gold of Uphaz! 6 His body was like beryl, his face like the appearance of lightning, his eyes like torches of fire, his arms and feet like burnished bronze in color, and the sound of his words like the voice of a multitude.

Philippians 2
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Revelation 1
12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead.

Revelation 2
18 “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write,
‘These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass:

I get excited just reading that!

 

[Joshua David]

I believe that Jesus had a spiritual body before, as well as after his ascension. But just because something is spiritual, does not necessarily mean that it is non-corporal. But being spiritual and physical is not mutually exclusive, for instance, our glorified bodies are said to be spiritual.


1 Cor 15:43-45 [sup]43[/sup] it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; [sup]44[/sup] it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. [sup]45[/sup] So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

Jesus' body after the resurrection was spiritual, and physical. It could be touched, it could cook, and eat. But it was also a spiritual body, it could appear and disappear at will. Our glorified bodies are said to be like his, so I believe that our bodies will be both spiritual, and physical. I believe that we will be able to cook, as well as eat, we will be able to work, we will be able to disappear, and appear at another location at the speed of thought.


Joshua David

 

[KingdomCome]

So, is Christ Jesus a physical male individual in Heaven and the Kingdom thereof? — Is Jesus a flesh and blood person in Heaven?

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Blessings and thanks for your responses...

 

[Joshua David]

[font="'Times New Roman"]

So, is Christ Jesus a physical male individual in Heaven and the Kingdom thereof? — Is Jesus a flesh and blood person in Heaven?

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Blessings and thanks for your responses...

I believe so. I am not sure about the blood part, but I know he has flesh and bone.


Luke 24:36-43 [sup]36[/sup] While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” [sup]37[/sup] They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. [sup]38[/sup] He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? [sup]39[/sup] Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

[sup]40[/sup] When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. [sup]41[/sup] And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” [sup]42[/sup] They gave him a piece of broiled fish, [sup]43[/sup] and he took it and ate it in their presence.


And I believe that our glorified bodies will be like his glorified body. And it will be a spiritual body, uncorrupted, immortal, glorious, and powerful, but it will be just as physical as Jesus' body was. It will have flesh and bone. It will eat.
1 John 3:1-3 [sup]1[/sup] See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. [sup]2[/sup] Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. [sup]3[/sup] All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.


Joshua David







[/font]

 

[KingdomCome]

I believe so. I am not sure about the blood part, but I know he has flesh and bone.

Luke 24:36-43 [sup]36[/sup] While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” [sup]37[/sup] They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. [sup]38[/sup] He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? [sup]39[/sup] Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

[sup]40[/sup] When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. [sup]41[/sup] And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” [sup]42[/sup] They gave him a piece of broiled fish, [sup]43[/sup] and he took it and ate it in their presence.

And I believe that our glorified bodies will be like his glorified body. And it will be a spiritual body, uncorrupted, immortal, glorious, and powerful, but it will be just as physical as Jesus' body was. It will have flesh and bone. It will eat.
1 John 3:1-3 [sup]1[/sup] See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. [sup]2[/sup] Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. [sup]3[/sup] All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.

Joshua David

2Cor 5:
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

I believe Christ Jesus was raised (in the flesh) from the dead and then ascended into the clouds to be one with the Father — moreover, we no longer know Christ Jesus after the flesh — He is the Light and the Glory of the Father in Heaven and that which is manifest in the mortal flesh of all who believe.

2Co 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus’ sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Blessings

 

[Joshua David]

2Cor 5:
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

I believe Christ Jesus was raised (in the flesh) from the dead and then ascended into the clouds to be one with the Father — moreover, we no longer know Christ Jesus after the flesh — He is the Light and the Glory of the Father in Heaven and that which is manifest in the mortal flesh of all who believe.

2Co 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus’ sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Blessings

The way that I see 2 Cor 5 is talking about the difference between our flesh nature ( sin nature or worldly view) and our Spiritual nature (redeemed nature). So what is Paul talking about here? Paul is saying that when we look at people, we don't need to look at them 'after the flesh' or with a worldly view, we need to look at them from a Godly view. Now Paul used to look at Christ 'after the flesh' when he was persecuting the church, but he will never look at him that way again. When we look at our brothers and sisters in Christ, we don't need to look at them 'after the flesh' or again in a worldly view, but we need to look at them from a Godly view, and realize that they are a new creature.

I can't see this scripture having anything to do with the either the physical body of Jesus or the lack of one. I too believe that Jesus Christ was physically raised from the dead, and ascended into Heaven bodily. His body although physical was glorified.

Also when the bible talks about the flesh, sometimes it is referring to our sin nature, contrasting our 'flesh' with our 'spirit'. But sometimes it is referring to the physical aspects of our bodies, such as Jesus did in Luke 24:39. It is important to keep those two separate. Because while I believe that our glorified bodies will have flesh ( a physical aspect ) it will not have 'fleshly body' ( sin nature) but be a spiritual body ( spirit led nature ).

Joshua David

 

[KingdomCome]

The period of Luke 24:39 is after the Resurrection of Jesus Christ and before His ascension.

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Acts 1:
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Please do not laugh — I believe the coming of Christ Jesus is His rising from the dead. We who believe are His body,1Co 12:27, and the dead in Christ. His coming is His rising from the dead.

1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

1Th 4:
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Col 3:
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

All who believe are raised with Christ...Marvel not — we must be born again to see the Kingdom of God.

John 3:
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Blessings

 

[Joshua David]

Please do not laugh — I believe the coming of Christ Jesus is His rising from the dead. We who believe are His body,1Co 12:27, and the dead in Christ. His coming is His rising from the dead.

So then you do not believe that Jesus Christ will physically return someday soon to set up the Millennium Reign of Christ, otherwise known as the Kingdom Age?

Joshua David

 

[KingdomCome]

So then you do not believe that Jesus Christ will physically return someday soon to set up the Millennium Reign of Christ, otherwise known as the Kingdom Age?

Joshua David

As He has proven by coming to us a person in the flesh, Christ Jesus can return as a singular male individual as you say — I believe it. I do believe, now, that Christ Jesus is in those who believe now, therefore, I believe He "is" come in the flesh — not only "has come", but, "is come" in the flesh of His body — we who believe are His body. Christ Jesus is here now and He is the Light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world. Christ Jesus is here now and is coming to those who do not yet believe. No person knows the day, however, when all on earth will believe and there will be a rest for all — I see no reason Christ Jesus would not be able to return as a singular male individual on that day. My personal labor is to "first" seek the Kingdom of God by telling all about the coming Kingdom. Moreover, that Christ Jesus, the Lamb of God, is the Light and the Glory and the temple of God in the Holy City that is now in the process of coming to the earth.

Heb 4:
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Rev 21:
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Because I see this in reality, I do not look for the Kingdom here or there — when two or three come together in His name Christ Jesus is there and manifest in their mortal flesh — the temple of God amongst men. I see Christ Jesus on this earth and in the flesh of those who believe. I do not seek the things of the earth — I seek those things which are above.

Col 3:
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Though I know He may return as a singular male individual, I do not seek Christ Jesus in the flesh:

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

My hope is that I have not offended you or any other...

 

[tomwebster]

So then you do not believe that Jesus Christ will physically return someday soon to set up the Millennium Reign of Christ, otherwise known as the Kingdom Age?

Joshua David

Christ will return soon, He will not be in a flesh and blood body.

 

[Joshua David]

My hope is that I have not offended you or any other...

Dear brother, you have not offended me. What offense is there? You have clearly laid out what your beliefs are and some of the scriptures that support those beliefs, how can I find that offensive? Now that is not to say that I agree with them. I believe that Jesus Christ right now is preparing a place, the bridal chamber. I believe that some day soon he will physically return in the sky to call his bride away, Where we will enjoy seven wonderful years celebrating the 'Bridal week', while the earth is experiencing the Tribulation for it's rejection of him. After these 7 years, I believe that he will physically return to the earth. His feet will touch down on the mount of olives, as was prophesied. I believe that the Mount of Olives will split just as the bible says it will, as soon as his feet touches it. I believe that he will defeat the Antichrist, the false prophet and will subjugate all the nations of the world. I believe that Christ will rule the entire earth for 1000 years.

Christ will return soon, He will not be in a flesh and blood body.

I disagree. I believe the scriptures state that his body is flesh and bone, and our glorified bodies will be like his.

Joshua David

 

[tomwebster]

....

I disagree. I believe the scriptures state that his body is flesh and bone, and our glorified bodies will be like his.

Joshua David

You are saying two different things here, flesh and bone or glorified. Have you tried walking through a wall lately, the risen Christ could.

Scripture says that "flesh and blood" cannot inherit the kingdom, 1Co 15:50 " Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption," but you seem to think it can.

 

[Joshua David]

You are saying two different things here, flesh and bone or glorified. Have you tried walking through a wall lately, the risen Christ could.

Scripture says that "flesh and blood" cannot inherit the kingdom but you seem to think it can. Now, should it be Scripture or jd?

Again I disagree. Christ clearly had flesh and bone, and yet was glorified because it appeared and disappeared at will. Now have I tried to walk through a wall lately? Well there was this one time I passed out and ran head first into the wall? Does that count? But seriously, no I haven't tried walking through a wall, but neither do I have a glorified body either. Jesus' body proved that the two things are not mutually exclusive. I can provide scripture if needed.


Now as far as the scripture that says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom, I believe that the term flesh and blood relates to our natural, unglorified bodies, the ones that we currently have now. And I agree, I do not believe that the bodies that we have now can inherit the Kingdom of God, but that does not mean that our glorified bodies are non-corporal, as Jesus' body clearly proves.


Joshua David

 

[Angelina]

I have heard this argument on so many forums and with so many interpretations...it's incredible! :huh:

I would just like to point out, that it does not really matter what form he comes back in...rather, that he is coming back very soon!

Revelation 1
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, [sup]5[/sup] and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, [sup]6[/sup] and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
[sup]7[/sup] Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

The question is...are we prepared for his return. [whether he returns pre, mid or post trib] Is our relationship right with God and with others?

Blessings!!!

 

[Joshua David]

I have heard this argument on so many forums and with so many interpretations...it's incredible! :huh:

I would just like to point out, that it does not really matter what form he comes back in...rather, that he is coming back very soon!

Revelation 1
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, [sup]5[/sup] and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, [sup]6[/sup] and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
[sup]7[/sup] Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

The question is...are we prepared for his return. [whether he returns pre, mid or post trib] Is our relationship right with God and with others?

Blessings!!!

Dear Angelina,


I agree that the important thing is our relationship with God and with others. And you are right, we never should lose the fact that this should be our focus. But, just speaking for me, I find this going back and forth over 'trivial' things fun. It is my relaxation. Does it really matter if our glorified bodies are going to be physical or not? I really don't think so, because they will be more glorious than we can imagine. No matter what the final form it will take. But I enjoy the back and forth, because when someone makes a point that I haven't considered, whether I agree with it or not, it encourages me to dig deeper in the Word.


Joshua David

 

[Angelina]

My dear JD!

I also agree with you wholeheartedly!...

But I enjoy the back and forth, because when someone makes a point that I haven't considered, whether I agree with it or not, it encourages me to dig deeper in the Word.

Unfortunately, some folk tend to take this type of discussion more seriously than that eg: " If you do not believe that he is coming in the flesh, then you are not saved", or "you are a heretic.

<sigh> such harshness coming from children of God who are supposed to love one another. I have my own personal, rule of thumb which keeps me out of many discussions such as this...

Romans 14
[sup]20[/sup] Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. [sup]21[/sup] It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.

I realize that this verse pertains to eating and drinking but it can also be associated toward anything that can make a brother stumble and fall. Particularly those who are easily offended or those who have a religious spirit...

Bless you bro!......baling out!

 

[Joshua David]

My dear JD!

I also agree with you wholeheartedly!...



Unfortunately, some folk tend to take this type of discussion more seriously than that eg: " If you do not believe that he is coming in the flesh, then you are not saved", or "you are a heretic.

<sigh> such harshness coming from children of God who are supposed to love one another. I have my own personal, rule of thumb which keeps me out of many discussions such as this...

Romans 14
[sup]20[/sup] Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. [sup]21[/sup] It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.

I realize that this verse pertains to eating and drinking but it can also be associated toward anything that can make a brother stumble and fall. Particularly those who are easily offended or those who have a religious spirit...

Bless you bro!......baling out!

Yes, you are right that some Christians can let their passion get the best of them, especially then they start challenging the other persons walk or intelligence. That gets in my craw too. But just to let you know you are always welcome to drop on in.


Joshua David