If sealed with the HS, how does one become UNsealed ?

[GodsGrace]

That idea likely gives little comfort to those who are opposed to the eternal irrevocable salvation teaching of Jesus,as they insist our labors insure our redemption.

Though I would think that doctrinal following that leads believers in grieving the holy spirit by insisting his seal,presence,is impermenant and is nullified by our actions, would be far more frightened on the day of their judgement.

Where they shall answer for every word when they as much as said, Jesus was a myth and his teachings are negligible.

Did you ever read the bible?
Why would you think anyone is interested in your opinion?

Would you happen to have any scripture to back up what you state?

Scripture is authoratative.
You are not.

Here,,,let's see what you make of this:


John 15:2
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away;

° The branc is IN JESUS
° The branch did not produce fruit
° The branch was taken away


Jesus said this.
Do you trust Jesus?

Was He wrong?

Perhaps you are following someone other than Jesus?

What should we make of John 15:2?
Tear the page out of the NT?
Ignore it?

 

[Taken]

1Cor 9:27 But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

@Taken, you are logical person, tell me any OSAS believer (such as yourself) who would say that (the red) about oneself.

You will never say -- lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified --

Right ?

But Paul did.

Paul --> NOSAS.

Paul preaching TO the SAVED, that he (Paul) never wanted to be found discreditable HAS What to do with OSAS?

 

[Taken]

You post nonsense.
You are unable to have a serious convesation.
You are unable to use scrpture to back up your statements.
They are,
thus
your OPINION.

Youre OPINION is worthless.

Repeating yourself, merely verifies your and my Differences, which I already am well aware.

I speak my beliefs from a spiritual stand point, and you want a Mindful discussion …
And
Want me to voluntarily DO Scriptural Verifying “FOR You”.

Effects me NONE, that you ARE lazy, and think I am appointed to be YOUR teacher…
aND researcher…I’m NOT.

1 Cor 2:
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[GodsGrace]

Repeating yourself, merely verifies your and my Differences, which I already am well aware.

I speak my beliefs from a spiritual stand point, and you want a Mindful discussion …
And
Want me to voluntarily DO Scriptural Verifying “FOR You”.

Effects me NONE, that you ARE lazy, and think I am appointed to be YOUR teacher…
aND researcher…I’m NOT.

1 Cor 2:
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Who is the lazy one Taken?
but the one who refuses to post scripture.

And you think I'M going to do your work for you!

Keep posting YOUR OPINION.
I'm sure everyone is on the brink of their seat
to know what YOU have to say
instead of
JESUS
PAUL
JOHN
JAMES
PETER

Yeah.

What do YOU make of:

John 15:2
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away;


I suppose that would not be a spiritual discussion.
It does, however, reject everything you "teach".

 

[Gray_Joy]

Repeating yourself, merely verifies your and my Differences, which I already am well aware.

I speak my beliefs from a spiritual stand point, and you want a Mindful discussion …
And
Want me to voluntarily DO Scriptural Verifying “FOR You”.

Effects me NONE, that you ARE lazy, and think I am appointed to be YOUR teacher…
aND researcher…I’m NOT.

1 Cor 2:
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

You post scripture but are accused of not posting scripture.

Everything you observe there is turned around and put upon you.

That's just odd.

 

[mailmandan]

Oh my.
Another theologian that doesn't undersand 1 Cor 3:4-15
There's a thread on this somewhere.
i think.

1 Corinthians 3:4-15 speaks for itself. Make sure you learn the difference between a gift and a reward/prize.

 

[gpresdo]

and the comprehensive list of verses that support your opinions are ?
Take your time, no rush :)

Don't need any more. What I Listed is sufficient and conclusive.

 

[gpresdo]

U can't quote a comprehensive list of verses to support your claims so you just make short ignorant comments

It is ignorance which fails to understand clear scriptures.
To those who need to study the Bible ...I suggest KJV 1611 edition.

 

[gpresdo]

OSAS came into the Christian community around the 1960's. It is part of the ...new age religion...group of teachings and is not scriptural.

 

[GodsGrace]

Your answer deserves the originality prize

I did give @mailmandan a prize some time ago.
I thought he deserved one for all the hard work he does in putting togther what he
calls hermeneutics.

And I call eisegesis.

The creativity is to be admired.
Too bad it's not scriptural.

 

[GodsGrace]

It is ignorance which fails to understand clear scriptures.
To those who need to study the Bible ...I suggest KJV 1611 edition.

I posted about 20 verses about what Jesus taught that we are TO DO just from
the gospel of Matthew, first 5 chapters !!

I doubt he'll be replying.

Those in the dark like to stay in the dark,,,
lest they learn something that might disturb their comfort zone.

Will linki the page for you if I could find it easily.

 

[GodsGrace]

It is ignorance which fails to understand clear scriptures.
To those who need to study the Bible ...I suggest KJV 1611 edition.

Here is the reply I posted to peter regarding his list of verses he does not understand but does keep posting them.
This might be all he knows.....

You might want to make use of the replies.
There is NOWHERE in the NT that teaches OSAS.
It DOES NOT EXIST. You can be sure of that.

Post 462

If sealed with the HS, how does one become UNsealed ?

Those verses sound very scary GH. Maybe the writer of Hebrews didn't really mean them?? It almost sounds like we could forfeit our salvation. Can it be? I would suppose that if it's written in the bible, then it must be true. Writing on this forum is kinda like texting and a person's intent...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[GodsGrace]

OSAS came into the Christian community around the 1960's. It is part of the ...new age religion...group of teachings and is not scriptural.

I'll give you the history for OSAS so you could file it away for future use.

OSAS was NEVER taught in the early church.

In the 5th century (late 400AD to early 500AD) a man that had been a gnostic manechean for 10 years decided to become Catholic and he joined the Catholic church.

HE is the person that invented Calvinism for reasons that I won't get into here but that are very interesting.
HE is the one that invented preservation of the saints.
This means that a person could never lose their salvation because God would not allow them to.

In the 1500's John Calvin adopted the heretical teachings of this person whose name is Augustine of Hippo and created the Calvinist theology which we know as Calvinism.

Calvinism also teaches Preservation of the Saints.
Which John Calvin got from Augustine of Hippo.

In about the 1820's this idea of the Pres of the Saints was not adopted by
a man called John Darby.

John Darby is the person that disseminated OSAS into the general population of the Protestant denominations.

And why not?
It does sound really good.
You know,,,you walk down the isle and "accept" Jesus one time in your life and then you can return to a life of sin and,
voila !! You can still be saved !!

A demonic teaching that will lead many to miss heaven.

Here is what Paul said about heretical teachings:
Heretical means they were not taught in the church from the beginning but were invented by someone:


1 Timothy 4:1
1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,



2 Timothy 4:3
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4and will turn away their ears from the truth


THIS is the history of OSAS.
It did NOT begin in the 1960's.

 

[GodsGrace]

It is ignorance which fails to understand clear scriptures.
To those who need to study the Bible ...I suggest KJV 1611 edition.

And here is the list of verses I gave to @PeterAndroz which is what Jesus taught so that we could be saved.
It's only from the first 5 chapters of Matthew...
there are hundreds more...
but some like to ignore them and follow the teachings of MEN instead of those of JESUS.


Now...
I explained HIS verse to him and showed how they do NOT mean what he THINKS they mean.
Let's see if HE replies to MINE.


Or anyone else on this thread that thinks OSAS is taught in the New Testament.

If sealed with the HS, how does one become UNsealed ?

So was that YES you believe a believer remains saved if they stop believing or NO ? Are you speaking to me? I'm sorry -- it's difficult to tell. A believer is saved as long as: ° He believes in God. ° He obeys God This is basically what Jesus taught. John 15:14 14If you love Me, keep my...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[GodsGrace]

1 Corinthians 3:4-15 speaks for itself. Make sure you learn the difference between a gift and a reward/prize.

Yes sir.
Your wish is my command.


Here's a little more creative work for you to do:


John 15:1-2
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away;


Now take you time and explain how the branch is not really attached to the vine.
or
Explain how TAKES AWAY really means LIFT UP,,,you know how vine keepers go around LIFTING UP leaves or tie them to the vine.


Except that HERE is what happens to the branches that God TOOK AWAY/CUT OFF because they were not producing fruit:


John 15:6
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.



Now...go ahead and explain how Jesus didn't REALLY mean what He THINKS He meant.

It's almost blasphemous.

 

[Grailhunter]

I'll give you the history for OSAS so you could file it away for future use.

OSAS was NEVER taught in the early church.

In the 5th century (late 400AD to early 500AD) a man that had been a gnostic manechean for 10 years decided to become Catholic and he joined the Catholic church.

HE is the person that invented Calvinism for reasons that I won't get into here but that are very interesting.
HE is the one that invented preservation of the saints.
This means that a person could never lose their salvation because God would not allow them to.

In the 1500's John Calvin adopted the heretical teachings of this person whose name is Augustine of Hippo and created the Calvinist theology which we know as Calvinism.

Calvinism also teaches Preservation of the Saints.
Which John Calvin got from Augustine of Hippo.

In about the 1820's this idea of the Pres of the Saints was not adopted by
a man called John Darby.

John Darby is the person that disseminated OSAS into the general population of the Protestant denominations.

And why not?
It does sound really good.
You know,,,you walk down the isle and "accept" Jesus one time in your life and then you can return to a life of sin and,
voila !! You can still be saved !!

A demonic teaching that will lead many to miss heaven.

Here is what Paul said about heretical teachings:
Heretical means they were not taught in the church from the beginning but were invented by someone:


1 Timothy 4:1
1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,



2 Timothy 4:3
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4and will turn away their ears from the truth


THIS is the history of OSAS.
It did NOT begin in the 1960's.

Just WOW!

 

[ProDeo]

1 Corinthians 3:4-15 speaks for itself. Make sure you learn the difference between a gift and a reward/prize.

In the end Dan, @Taken all our bickering makes no sense, our names in the Book of Life are written before A&E were created, the Lord God knows our outcome even before we were born.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

And there are the if's again, 2 conditions in verse 27.

While I can't imagine a truly born again will leave the faith or after a period of holiness starts to backslide living in sin, it does happen. I can name 3 biblical exceptions, but look around in the world, let's begin with the millions who lost faith because of evolution theory, they stopped hearing Jesus voice because they did not trust the Scriptures any longer.

Dan, maybe you remember Mark-Edwards from the old (2008) forum, a brilliant Bible student, always defending the Scriptures and then the unthinkable happened, first he started to question the Trinity, then later declared the whole Bible unreliable, left the faith and created anti-Christian websites in the style of Bart Ehrman. His intellect became his Achilles heel.

Note what Jesus said to (notable) Peter -

Luke 22:31 “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat,
Luke 22:32 but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail.

What if the satan demands to have you and like with Job gets permission, testing your vulnerabilities. Pray to the Lord He will pray for you that your faith may not fail.

Don't rely on your own strength you will overcome when you are tested, that's pride, pray.

Luke 22:40 And when he came to the place, he said to them, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.”
Luke 22:46 and he said to them, “Why are you sleeping? Rise and pray that you may not enter into temptation.”

 

[Taken]

Who is the lazy one Taken?

You, who does Not search the Scriptures to Verify what You hear.

 

[GodsGrace]

In the end Dan, @Taken all our bickering makes no sense, our names in the Book of Life are written before A&E were created, the Lord God knows our outcome even before we were born.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

And there are the if's again, 2 conditions in verse 27.

While I can't imagine a truly born again will leave the faith or after a period of holiness starts to backslide living in sin, it does happen. I can name 3 biblical exceptions, but look around in the world, let's begin with the millions who lost faith because of evolution theory, they stopped hearing Jesus voice because they did not trust the Scriptures any longer.

Dan, maybe you remember Mark-Edwards from the old (2008) forum, a brilliant Bible student, always defending the Scriptures and then the unthinkable happened, first he started to question the Trinity, then later declared the whole Bible unreliable, left the faith and created anti-Christian websites in the style of Bart Ehrman. His intellect became his Achilles heel.

Note what Jesus said to (notable) Peter -

Luke 22:31 “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat,
Luke 22:32 but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail.

What if the satan demands to have you and like with Job gets permission, testing your vulnerabilities. Pray to the Lord He will pray for you that your faith may not fail.

Don't rely on your own strength you will overcome when you are tested, that's pride, pray.

Luke 22:40 And when he came to the place, he said to them, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.”
Luke 22:46 and he said to them, “Why are you sleeping? Rise and pray that you may not enter into temptation.”

So many IF's in the NT.
So many warnings.

Some just prefer to make up their own religion and stay in the dark.

Here's a simple question for everyone on this thread:


Why would Jesus or Paul give warnings unless there was danger?

Warnings are not needed where danger does not exist.


Just turn to any page of Paul's writings and we see warnings.

I just did this and got this:


Romans 13:12-14
12The night is almost gone, and the day is near. Therefore let us lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light.
13Let us behave properly as in the day, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual promiscuity and sensuality, not in strife and jealousy.
14But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh in regard to its lusts.


And I never get a reply to:


Colossians 1:22-23
, 22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—

23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast,

 

[GodsGrace]

You, who does Not search the Scriptures to Verify what You hear.

John 10:27-28
27“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.


But then we have this:


1 Timothy 4:1
1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,


2 Timothy 4:3
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,

4and will turn away their ears from the truth


Yes.
HEARING is very important.
Hearing the truth...sound doctrine.
Not hearing false teachers.
Not turning away from the truth.


Jesus' sheep HEAR HIS voice.
He give to THEM eternal life.


Here is what Jesus wants His sheep to hear:


Matthew 7:26-27
26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.

27“The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”


Jesus does not want HIS SHEEP to be like the foolish man.

The foolish man did not ACT on the words of Jesus.
The winds came and his house FELL.....


The wise man ACTS on the words of Jesus.
His house will not fall.


Matthew 7:24-25
24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.

25“And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.



This is how scripture is used Taken.

Now please show, with scripture, how it is impossible for a person to lose their salvation.