If sealed with the HS, how does one become UNsealed ?

[Taken]

In the end Dan, @Taken all our bickering makes no sense,

…

Opposites / Disagreements make perfect sense to me.

our names in the Book of Life are written before A&E were created, the Lord God knows our outcome even before we were born.

No dispute.
And…In THAT “Book of Life”, names / Of they rejecting God, can, shall be blotted out., forgotten.

And THEN, among “other BOOKS”, there IS:
The “LAMBS BOOK of LIFE”.
* Their Names become “Entered” in His Book, during their mortal Lifetime…
* Because the individual …
“Confessed” (by his Word) his True Heartful Belief…
And
“surrendered his Life unto Death”, Verifying his TRUE Belief.
(And unlike “a member on this forum who does not search and verify, What THEY Hear)…
God Searches and Verifies What He Hears…
That It be True…
“THEN IF True”…
Is that mans Name “ENTERED, into…
The Lambs Book of Life …
And can NEVER be blotted Out.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
John 10:28 give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Yes… Once and Forever they Are securely SAVED.

While I can't imagine a truly born again will leave the faith or after a period of holiness starts to backslide living in sin, it does happen.

You unbelief in… John 10:28…does NOT, change the Truth of Eternal Life for those assuredly Saved forever by the Lamb of God…and their name recorded in the Lambs Book of Life.



Heb 7:
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Rev 13:
[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Rev 21:
[27] And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

can name 3 biblical exceptions, but look around in the world, let's begin with the millions who lost faith because of evolution theory, they stopped hearing Jesus voice because they did not trust the Scriptures any longer.

So? Believers NOT written IN the SURETY of the Lambs Book of Life…
“have, can, will” Fall away from Faith.

They IN the Lambs Book of Life…
Confessed by their Word and Surrender of their Life…THEY are KEPT Secure by the Power of God… IN Them

“IN Christ”… ring a bell?
“Power of God IS Christ”…ring a bell?

They who NEVER “confessed” or “surrendered their Life”…
Are NOT in the Lambs Book of Life.
Are NOT secure by Christs Power IN them.
THEY rely on their “own power”.

Did you not heed the Warning?
Demons, High offices of men, (and modernly kings, rulers, parents, teachers, scientists, celebrities, social medias…) routinely influence, people (not secure in Gods Power), to Reject God / Fall from Faith!
( and even now, it is occurring on a grand scale!)

What does THAT have to Do with the Secure, IN the Power of Christ who ARE, Once And Eternally Saved?

Nothing!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

[/U][/B]
And I never get a reply to:

The Differences Between What MEN freely Choose…
And the CONSEQUENCES FOR their Choices…
Has repeatedly been STEP by STEP Revealed in Scripture and On this Forum…

No one else can read, study, learn, verify, understand For you.

You fail to understand…common knowledge…
Scripture is ALL True.
ALL Scripture DOES NOT apply to every individual.

If… a scripture says… take care of your own household…
And YOU have No HOUSE, No DEPENDENTS…
That Scripture Does NOT Apply to you!

Pretending “YOU” are qualified to Dictate what does and does not Personally Apply to others, especially strangers…
Is laughable and ridiculous.

If your Salvation is NOT Secure, Given Once, AND Kept Forever, IN the Power of God, who IS Christ…
That is YOUR dilemma.

When my Salvation, BY MY choosing, Became MADE Secure, Given Once AND Kept forever, IN the Power of God, who IS Christ…
That is the Consequence FOR MY Choice, And Gods Faithful Promise FULFILLED.

Does NOT apply to me.…—->

1 Cor 1:
[18] For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Does Apply to me —->

[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

The Differences Between What MEN freely Choose…
And the CONSEQUENCES FOR their Choices…
Has repeatedly been STEP by STEP Revealed in Scripture and On this Forum…

No one else can read, study, learn, verify, understand For you.

You fail to understand…common knowledge…
Scripture is ALL True.
ALL Scripture DOES NOT apply to every individual.

If… a scripture says… take care of your own household…
And YOU have No HOUSE, No DEPENDENTS…
That Scripture Does NOT Apply to you!

Pretending “YOU” are qualified to Dictate what does and does not Personally Apply to others, especially strangers…
Is laughable and ridiculous.

If your Salvation is NOT Secure, Given Once, AND Kept Forever, IN the Power of God, who IS Christ…
That is YOUR dilemma.

When my Salvation, BY MY choosing, Became MADE Secure, Given Once AND Kept forever, IN the Power of God, who IS Christ…
That is the Consequence FOR MY Choice, And Gods Faithful Promise FULFILLED.

Does NOT apply to me.…—->

1 Cor 1:
[18] For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Does Apply to me —->

[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.


Glory to God,
Taken

No scripture to back up your statements.

So, once again, you have posted your OPINION.

Typical.

 

[mailmandan]

Yes sir.
Your wish is my command.

Here's a little more creative work for you to do:

John 15:1-2
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away;

Now take you time and explain how the branch is not really attached to the vine.
or
Explain how TAKES AWAY really means LIFT UP,,,you know how vine keepers go around LIFTING UP leaves or tie them to the vine.

Except that HERE is what happens to the branches that God TOOK AWAY/CUT OFF because they were not producing fruit:

John 15:6
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

Now...go ahead and explain how Jesus didn't REALLY mean what He THINKS He meant.

It's almost blasphemous.

What happened to discussing 1 Corinthians 3:4-15? Now it's back to John 15:1-6? You certainly have your pet verses. John 15:1-2 does not teach that born-again believers lose salvation. Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit (make believers, like Judas Iscariot) and branches that bear fruit, (genuine believers, like the remaining 11 disciples) but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit. A fruitless branch shows outward connection without inward life. That is why it is taken away. Judas Iscariot proves that outward connection to Christ is not the same as inward cleansing by Christ. In John 13:10, Jesus said, “You are clean, but not all of you." (John 13:10). Then John explains, “For he knew who should betray him; therefore, said he, you are not all clean.” (John 13:11)

Branches that have a vital connection with Christ as the vine bear fruit because life is in them. False professors may appear to have a vital connection with Christ as the vine for a season, but bearing no fruit exposes no vital connection and no spiritual life. So, the Father removes fruitless professors. Christ does not lose His sheep. John 15 cannot be used to negate John 6 and 10. That would make Jesus contradict Himself. Jesus already said, "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day" (John 6:39-40) and “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish or be snatched from my hand. (John 10:27-28). If they perish, then Jesus lost them, they were snatched from His hand, and it was not eternal life.

In regard to John 15:6, the Greek word for “abide” is "meno" which means to remain, tarry, not to depart, continue to be present. Abiding in Christ is not a special level of Christian experience that is only available to a few, elite Christians, but is the position of all true believers. 1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

 

[mailmandan]

In the end Dan, @Taken all our bickering makes no sense, our names in the Book of Life are written before A&E were created, the Lord God knows our outcome even before we were born.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

And there are the if's again, 2 conditions in verse 27.

While I can't imagine a truly born again will leave the faith or after a period of holiness starts to backslide living in sin, it does happen. I can name 3 biblical exceptions, but look around in the world, let's begin with the millions who lost faith because of evolution theory, they stopped hearing Jesus voice because they did not trust the Scriptures any longer.

Dan, maybe you remember Mark-Edwards from the old (2008) forum, a brilliant Bible student, always defending the Scriptures and then the unthinkable happened, first he started to question the Trinity, then later declared the whole Bible unreliable, left the faith and created anti-Christian websites in the style of Bart Ehrman. His intellect became his Achilles heel.

Note what Jesus said to (notable) Peter -

Luke 22:31 “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat,
Luke 22:32 but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail.

What if the satan demands to have you and like with Job gets permission, testing your vulnerabilities. Pray to the Lord He will pray for you that your faith may not fail.

Don't rely on your own strength you will overcome when you are tested, that's pride, pray.

Luke 22:40 And when he came to the place, he said to them, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.”
Luke 22:46 and he said to them, “Why are you sleeping? Rise and pray that you may not enter into temptation.”

In John 10:27-28, we read - My sheep hear My voice, (not some of them hear His voice and some of them don't hear His voice) and I know them, (not some of them He knows and some of them He doesn't know) and they follow Me. (not some of them follow Him and some of them don't follow Him) And I give them eternal life, (not some of them He gives eternal life and some of them He doesn't give eternal life) and they shall never perish; (not some of them will never perish and some of them will perish) neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. (not some of them will never be snatched out of His hand and some of them will be snatched out of His hand)

I don't see the word "if" in verse 27 but I see three conditional confirmations. People who lose faith were never firmly rooted and established in faith that saves to begin with. There are many "professing" Christians (nominal Christians) who merely have a shallow, temporary faith that was never firmly rooted from the start and fails when tested. Now although Peter had his weak moments, his faith did not ultimately fail, because it was authentic faith in Jesus. (Matthew 16:16) Jesus prayed and had his back. To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ: (Jude 1:1) Apart from Christ in our own strength we are nothing.

 

[Taken]

No scripture to back up your statements.

Nothing new, lazy as were they in Thessalonia!


Acts 17:
[11] These (in Brea) “were more noble than those in Thessalonica”, in that they(in Brea) received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

 

[GodsGrace]

What happened to discussing 1 Corinthians 3:4-15? Now it's back to John 15:1-6? You certainly have your pet verses. John 15:1-2 does not teach that born-again believers lose salvation. Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit (make believers, like Judas Iscariot) and branches that bear fruit, (genuine believers, like the remaining 11 disciples) but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.

I don't see any mention of Judas in John 15:2
or of the other 11 Apostles.

I don't see any mention of make believe born again believers.


Here's what I see in
John 15:2
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away;

° Every branch IN JESUS
° That does NOT BEAR FRUIT
° God takes away


Here's what happens to the branches that get cut off/taken away:


John 15.6
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned

° The branches are thrown away, dried up, gathered, and cast into the fire.


That sounds very serious to those that want to accept what Jesus is teaching.
Some just do not want to accept HIS teachings.

A fruitless branch shows outward connection without inward life. That is why it is taken away. Judas Iscariot proves that outward connection to Christ is not the same as inward cleansing by Christ. In John 13:10, Jesus said, “You are clean, but not all of you." (John 13:10). Then John explains, “For he knew who should betray him; therefore, said he, you are not all clean.” (John 13:11)

You're enamoured of Judas Ischariot.
I am not.

Here's why:

1. If he was never saved....he proves nothing.

2. If he was saved and then became unsaved...it proves my point---not yours.

I'd stop discussin Judas if I were you.

Branches that have a vital connection with Christ as the vine bear fruit because life is in them. False professors may appear to have a vital connection with Christ as the vine for a season, but bearing no fruit exposes no vital connection and no spiritual life. So, the Father removes fruitless professors. Christ does not lose His sheep.

Your word salad is interesting....

but here is what JESUS said:

6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned...

If we do not abide in Jesus....we are thrown away like a branch that dries up,,,
is gathered, and is cast into the fire.


Who does not abide in Christ?

Jesus tells us:

John 15:2
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away;

° The branch IN JESUS
° That does not bear fruit
° God cuts off the vine


Is someone IN JESUS not saved?

John 15 cannot be used to negate John 6 and 10. That would make Jesus contradict Himself.

YOU are making Jesus contradict Himself because you do not know how to reconcile scripture.

Jesus already said, "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day" (John 6:39-40) and “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish or be snatched from my hand. (John 10:27-28). If they perish, then Jesus lost them, they were snatched from His hand, and it was not eternal life.

So then Jesus was not sure of what He was teaching?



Now...
IF Jesus is not going to lose anyone that the father gave to Him...

Then why is GOD cutting unfruitful branches that ARE IN JESUS off the vine?

The branch that does not bear fruit
is as useless as the fig tree that does not produce figs.

Jesus said it was TAKING UP GROUND
IOW it was useless:

Luke 13:6-9
6“A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.

7“And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’

8“And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;

9and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’”

In regard to John 15:6, the Greek word for “abide” is "meno" which means to remain, tarry, not to depart, continue to be present. Abiding in Christ is not a special level of Christian experience that is only available to a few, elite Christians, but is the position of all true believers. 1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

Good try.
But no cigar.

Again:

John 15:1-2
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.

2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away;


EVERY BRANCH IN JESUS
that does not bear fruit
GOD CUTS OFF.

 

[GodsGrace]

Nothing new, lazy as were they in Thessalonia!


Acts 17:
[11] These (in Brea) “were more noble than those in Thessalonica”, in that they(in Brea) received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Yes.
I can see that you're a very spiritual person.
John 13:35

Now, are you going to reply to my post no. 520?

Didn't think so.

 

[Taken]

Yes.
I can see that you're a very spiritual person.
John 13:35

Now, are you going to reply to my post no. 520?

Ok It is…wait…

Didn't think so.

Nope. Not now.

 

[Gray_Joy]

What's really strange?

The admission. God did write our names,those whom he would lead to have faith and enter his grace and receive eternal irrevocable salvation, in the Book of Life before Adam and Eve were born!

The redundancy:
And on the 8th day God created White-Out.

 

[GodsGrace]

Ok It is…wait…



Nope. Not now.

Those reading along will be able to know

1. Who is the lazy one.
2. Who does not use scripture.
3. Who cannot give support to those that agree with her.
4. Who is unable to have a serious conversation.
5. Who posts only her own opinion.

Your word salads, and that's all they are, are most entertaining.

But of no value in a theology forum.

Matthew 15:11

 

[Taken]

Those reading along will be able to know

1. Who is the lazy one.
2. Who does not use scripture.
3. Who cannot give support to those that agree with her.
4. Who is unable to have a serious conversation.
5. Who posts only her own opinion.

Your word salads, and that's all they are, are most entertaining.

But of no value in a theology forum.

Matthew 15:11

Although, not news…
Thanks for sharing a point by point list describing, Who You are.

 

[Taken]

If sealed with the HS, how does one become UNsealed ?

Once Sealed; That Bond between a man and God…is Permanent.

For a (Spiritual thinker)…
Conclude Eternity.


For a (Carnal thinker)…
Conclude Gorilla Glue.

 

[Lambano]

When dealing with metaphorical language, be careful not to take the metaphor beyond where the author meant it to go.

 

[Gray_Joy]

We don't. The author said , of all the father gives him he shall never cast us out and shall lose none.

This is why it is called Eternal Life through his Eternal grace and Salvation.

Or,do some here think Salvation is a metaphor?

 

[gpresdo]

I'll give you the history for OSAS so you could file it away for future use.

OSAS was NEVER taught in the early church.

In the 5th century (late 400AD to early 500AD) a man that had been a gnostic manechean for 10 years decided to become Catholic and he joined the Catholic church.

HE is the person that invented Calvinism for reasons that I won't get into here but that are very interesting.
HE is the one that invented preservation of the saints.
This means that a person could never lose their salvation because God would not allow them to.

In the 1500's John Calvin adopted the heretical teachings of this person whose name is Augustine of Hippo and created the Calvinist theology which we know as Calvinism.

Calvinism also teaches Preservation of the Saints.
Which John Calvin got from Augustine of Hippo.

In about the 1820's this idea of the Pres of the Saints was not adopted by
a man called John Darby.

John Darby is the person that disseminated OSAS into the general population of the Protestant denominations.

And why not?
It does sound really good.
You know,,,you walk down the isle and "accept" Jesus one time in your life and then you can return to a life of sin and,
voila !! You can still be saved !!

A demonic teaching that will lead many to miss heaven.

Here is what Paul said about heretical teachings:
Heretical means they were not taught in the church from the beginning but were invented by someone:


1 Timothy 4:1
1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,



2 Timothy 4:3
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4and will turn away their ears from the truth


THIS is the history of OSAS.
It did NOT begin in the 1960's.

I speak not of the non Christian community.

I posted about 20 verses about what Jesus taught that we are TO DO just from
the gospel of Matthew, first 5 chapters !!

I doubt he'll be replying.

Those in the dark like to stay in the dark,,,
lest they learn something that might disturb their comfort zone.

Will linki the page for you if I could find it easily.

I used the 60's not having previous history... out of no interest.
Common sense tells anyone OSAS is abhorrent to God's intent.

I see it as a typical transference from scripture which tells us of ....no loss once Christ says we are saved... bestowed on us after death ...not while we are here on earth as...born again.
Much like NAR teaching that baptism is not required for sin cleansing process and using the thief on the cross as an example...when in fact Christ and the thief on the cross died under the OC ...old covenant
..which required no baptism. The NC ...new covenant does.
Thanks for your detail enhancement.

.

 

[mailmandan]

We don't. The author said , of all the father gives him he shall never cast us out and shall lose none.

This is why it is called Eternal Life through his Eternal grace and Salvation.

Or,do some here think Salvation is a metaphor?

Some here seem to think that salvation is probation and eternal life is temporary life and Jesus is not the door but is a revolving door. It's truly sad. All we hear from these folks is the gospel according to SELF.

SELF promotion
SELF righteousness
SELF preservation

 

[mailmandan]

Religion sucks. Lol. Relationship with God is so much more.

Sadly, there are many folks who are "religious, but not right with God." False religion kills and only Jesus saves.



John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him and not merely theoretical knowledge.