I'm hungry: sell me your birthright

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tim_from_pa

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I heard a million sermons about Esau selling his birthright to Jacob, but most people do not even know what the birthright was nor the significance of it. Yet they preach on something they have little clue as to what it is, as if its no more than a cracker-jack blessing to illustrate our personal spiritual growth or whatever. Considerations:1. How was it passed and ultimately to whom?2. What did it contain?3. For what purpose (why)?Yet..... and I say this seriously, this was the foundation of Genesis and the whole bible!! Misunderstand this, and one basically misunderstands much of the bible!!(I'll answer the 3 points later.)
 

Squeak

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I was just reading about Esau and Jacob earlier tonight. I couldn't figure out exactly what the "birthright" was. So I am looking forward to your answers.Also, what was the significance of Esau being described as "red" and "hairy"? What was red? His skin or his hair or both?
 

Christina

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hint what nation today is Known as the Red nation it even has a Red Square in it???
 

Squeak

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Well since I don't really follow world events all that much, I had to google it so I'm guessing really......Russia?
 

Christina

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Right its RussiaEsau meaning red and hairy as you have already said is an interesting study in itself seems Esau married Ishmaels daughter and became the Edomities. Now Ishmael is known as the father of the Arabs. Seems as though the Edomites were scattered after some time most going to what is modern day Russia and a part returning to the tribes of Ishmael so what we see here is a connection between the Arab nations and RussiaNow it is interesting that Russia in history was always called the Red Nation and Arabs are among some of the heaviest Beared peoples today.(Red...Hairy..?) Now prophecy has Russia and Arabs joining together against Israel (Jacob)So we can see these two nations that battled in Belly are still battling as Esau(Russia w/Arabs) against Jacob(Israel)
 

tim_from_pa

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I was just reading about Esau and Jacob earlier tonight. I couldn't figure out exactly what the "birthright" was. So I am looking forward to your answers.Also, what was the significance of Esau being described as "red" and "hairy"? What was red? His skin or his hair or both?
Your response is typical---- and it is no fault of your own. You just haven't been taught rightly. I've been digging into stuff like this for years and I am still learning trying to remove the veils and other garbage of tradition that's been spoon-fed to us. I'm still learning as you are.I'll answer #1, and keep others in suspense and time to also reply. And I'll be back later.Birthright simply means the heritage passed by rights of physical birth. I hear all kinds of explanations for that including the "new birth" and what-not. But there is no reason to make it more complicated than it is. The blessings passed form father to son and the firstborn received double inheritance (although sometimes God intervened and said otherwise).As for the birthright--- It was passed from Abraham (i.e. he had the original covenants) to Isaac to Jacob and then to the tribe of Joseph. What tribe was Jesus from? Not Joseph, but Judah. Jacob split part of the blessings so that Judah was the ruling tribe (that the King would come from), but otherwise the rest of the blessings went to Joseph.Next post states what they were.
 
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AKA Premenajure (First Born Right). Since Jacob Stole it, Jacob MEANING thief, from Isaac, God had to redeem Jacob. Since Jacob Strove to take that Birthright away, God blessed him and CALLED HIM, God STRIVES, or Yis'rael
 

tim_from_pa

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(Unorthodox Christian;29801)
AKA Premenajure (First Born Right). Since Jacob Stole it, Jacob MEANING thief, from Isaac, God had to redeem Jacob. Since Jacob Strove to take that Birthright away, God blessed him and CALLED HIM, God STRIVES, or Yis'rael
What you said is true---- and Jacob had a history where he wanted to do things his own way. He tried to speed up God's purpose the way he wanted things to turn out. What Jacob did not realize at the time was that God would have given him the birthright eventually. But because he jumped to it first on his own terms, he had to go thru a lot of trials in his life (c.f. Romans 9:13)
 

tim_from_pa

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OK---- now for #2 (What did the birthright contain?)Marvelous promises!! Amongst other things they were to receive:1. a great nation,2. great name,3. given a land of promise to Abraham's seed,4. Abraham's seed as the dust of the earth,5. Abraham's seed as the stars of heaven,6. become many nations,7. many kings,8. seed shall possess the gate of his (their) enemies.9. Excessive blessings (even materially) to his seedSource: Genesis 12, 13, 15, 17, 22 and there's even more chapters that reiterate the same things.Later on Jacob "split" the promises so that Judah would have the Kings and the right to rule, and that's it. But everything else belongs to the tribe of Joseph. These are promises to become superpower nations with many people and a great name! Esau was just a dope to despise it, and as we can see, this "blessing" was severely, severely, watered down from the teaching in the pulpit (almost as bad as despising it like Esau).I'll come back and answer # 3 a little later.
 

tim_from_pa

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Lastly, the purpose of the Birthright (#3):There must have been a reason to pass the birthright down and why it contained all the things promised. The reason can be found amongst the same verses that tell what the promises contain, i.e.:And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. (Genesis 12)And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.(Genesis 22)And they blessed Rebekah, and said unto her, Thou art our sister, be thou the mother of thousands of millions, and let thy seed possess the gate of those which hate them. (Genesis 24)And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed {Genesis 26)And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed. (Genesis 28)In short, God created a people (family) for the purpose of blessing a fallen world, and it would be through these blessed people, and nobody else that this would be accomplished (both in OT and NT covenants, as the promises have elements of both).The apostle Paul saw the "seed" as Christ Himself, in whom, all people would be blessed, and he based that argument (esp in Genesis 22) on the fact that seed is singular tense. But in the context, one can see that the physical seed would be many as well, and thus the promises were talking about Abraham's descendants.That's the birthright in a nutshell and why God instituted it to carry out His plan---- the one (physical seed) and the multitudes of (physical) seed from Abraham's loins that would become many nations, with many kings, well blessed, and a blessing to all the world. In the book of Numbers, the prophet Balaam compares the number of the seed to a quarter of the world's population.
 

FoC

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(tim_from_pa;29562)
I heard a million sermons about Esau selling his birthright to Jacob, but most people do not even know what the birthright was nor the significance of it. Yet they preach on something they have little clue as to what it is, as if its no more than a cracker-jack blessing to illustrate our personal spiritual growth or whatever. Considerations:1. How was it passed and ultimately to whom?2. What did it contain?3. For what purpose (why)?Yet..... and I say this seriously, this was the foundation of Genesis and the whole bible!! Misunderstand this, and one basically misunderstands much of the bible!!(I'll answer the 3 points later.)
Well, thanks for the link to come by here, Tim
smile.gif
However my point in the other thread by no means fits into any possible discussion here and I wouldnt want to derail this thread too much with that discussion (which was ONLY about the terms "Jew" and "Israel(ite)" in the NT not having to be about the two kingdoms but being more about the descendants of Jacob(Israel)Heres a link to something that proves that issuehttp://studies.assembly-ministries.org/vie....php?f=30&t=164As far as the OP, thanks again for the link here, but I do not feel any real need to discuss this particular point since it is unrelated to MY point in that other thread, and since Ive proven what I was actually talking about fairly conclusively thereGod bless