In Christendom, Nothing Is More Totally Wrong on Every Level Than

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
13,360
4,991
113
55
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In Christendom, Nothing Is More Totally Wrong on Every Level Than … the idea of unconditional love.

I was reminded of this error in a small group at church last week. A woman was sharing her relationship with her son. She spoke out of both sides of her mouth. Paying lip service to loving her son, she spoke to the obligatory preface, “of course, I love my son.” Yet, confessed she’d love him more if he did things that were right. So, it is with all of us.

My than a decade ago I wrote a detailed analysis to a Pastor. Predictably, he had no response. If there is one word I wish I never heard again in church is love for the emotional manipulation is appalling; If you love X, you’ll do Y. <sigh> The flaw was exposed in that letter a decade ago and there is no defense for error. The error has 2 poisonous roots, logical and psychological (emotional manipulation).

You cannot use words inventing a “sense” contrary to the normal sense of the word. And there is no reason to define words that create contradictions. In fact, doing so is contrary to reason. There is a much better word for the Greek word “agape,” compassion.

  • For God has such compassion for the world that he gave is only begotten son.
  • Compassion is patient, kind. Compassion does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. Compassion bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
  • Have compassion for your enemies.
We are to have universal compassion for others. I get it. Love is something else entirely. Truth is people love virtue. Virtue is action necessary to obtain a value. This is why it is easy to love God, the embodiment of virtue. People on the other hand, not so much. Whether it is a candidate to be your spouse, mayor, governor, or president, your preference goes to the most virtuous option – not all equally.

I reject the idea that it is some failure on our part, such as insufficiently disciplined or not fully embracing the fruit of the Spirit. What does our Lord say?

If you want to be great, you must be the servant of all the others.
Matthew 20:26

Notice the conditional statement, “if?” People love greatness. They yearn to be virtuous and love it in others. And it is inherently conditional. Regarding the psychological error, from Definition of LOVE

love
noun
ˈləv
1: strong affection for another arising out of kinship or personal ties
maternal love for a child
(2) : attraction based on sexual desire : affection and tenderness felt by lovers
After all these years, they are still very much in love.
(3) : affection based on admiration, benevolence, or common interests
love for his old schoolmates
b : an assurance of affection
give her my love

Notice how affection is at the heart of love’s oldest sense of meaning? What does affection mean?

affection
noun
af·fec·tion ə-ˈfek-shən
1: a feeling of liking and caring for someone or something

Feelings are automatic responses. It is irrational to hold people to their automatic responses, dictating emotion. Some people I just don’t feel that connection, that affection. Doesn’t mean I cannot have compassion for their plight.

I was so glad to read a book my Pastor wrote, Grace and Truth, where she admitted she does not love her children equally. <SHOCK & HORROR> She clarified that she loves them fully and uniquely. This is my experience. I hold that anyone who claims to love everyone equally is fooling themselves.

Thoughts?
 
Last edited:

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,545
21,653
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We are to have universal compassion for others. I get it. Love is something else entirely.
We are to love others, agape love not just being some tender hearted feeling, rather, our core commitment to their well being. It's a high calling, a high standard, but let's seek to be that way.

You have to choose this, and it has to be real inside you. As with everything else, we do our best counting on God to give us what we need.

Much love!
 

lforrest

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Admin
Aug 10, 2012
5,592
6,842
113
Faith
Christian
You make a good point. The word 'love' has conflated meaning. Due to the limitations of the English language.

But perhaps compassion isn't the best word either, as a misfortune must proceed it.

Compassion is defined as sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it.

But we can agree the godly kind of agape love is not simply a feeling of affection.

For example look to the emotional impact of being betrayed by a loved one. The feelings of affection quickly disappear. They can even be replaced by feelings of resentment stronger than you would feel for a stranger who harmed you in an similar way.

But agape love requires us to forgive. If that also required us to hold requisite feelings of affection it may be impossible because feelings are beyond our control. But we can proceed with forgiveness even if we don't feel it.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,195
4,957
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hello Wrangler,

The only form of the agape definition I find fulfilling to see is described by Paul, to the audience of the Cornthians.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

I believe in Christ, he can allow me to love others by the spirit of Christ within me, and that while I can hate the sin a person may get themselves into, no where in scripture is it found that I should hate my neighbor, unless we live in an eye for and eye and tooth for tooth era.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marcipa