OzSpen said:
brakelite,
I refute that view in
Is hell fair? and the accompanying links at the conclusion of the article. The Greek language does not allow me to come to the conclusions which you endorse.
Oz
I read your post, and have read similar posts before. First, to use Bertrand Russel as an example of the opposite camp is somewhat misleading. There are a great many leading Bible scholars who reject eternal torment, such as N T Wright. Nor is it a good argument to claim the eternal torment is just, because God is just. If eternal torment is not what God has decreed as the punishment for the wicked, then to argue about the justice or injustice of it is irrelevant.
I have a challenge. Please read carefully the following, and then answer the concluding questions using Scripture only as the basis for your answers.
1 Peter 1:18,19 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot....
....2:24,25 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls....
.....3:18 ¶ For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.
1 Cor. 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures
In light of the above scriptures, and many more such besides,(Rom. 3:25,26. 5:8,9. 6:10. Colossians 1:20-22. Heb. 9:15,16,22.) my question is…..
When Jesus died upon the cross of Calvary, was this act a full and final settlement of the debt we owe due to our sin? In other words, has the full redemption price been paid, and what was that price?
Okay, that the full and final redemption price has been paid on behalf of a lost race would be disputed by few who know their Bibles. That Jesus paid the price, taking upon Himself the full punishment that was rightly due sinful man, is the great central theme of the gospel, in fact, all of scripture. It is called by many names. Redemption. Atonement. Salvation. Vicarius sacrifice. Propitiation. They all mean one and the same thing. That the just died for the unjust. The sinless for the sinner. Christ died in our place. The punishment and full penalty that belonged justly and rightly to us, was laid upon Christ. He died that we might live. Very few would dare to argue with this most profound and fundamental of Biblical truths. And there are scores of scriptures that verify and support this most wonderful doctrine.
Romans 3:25,26; 5:8,9; 6:10.
Colossians 1:20-22.
Hebrews 9:15,22.
1 Peter 1:18,19; 2:24; 3:18.
Revelation 5:9
These are but a small selection but enough to deduce the following basic principles inherent in the atonement.
1 Because death is the due and just penalty for sin (Rom. 6:23), death therefore was the redemptive price.
2 Jesus, through the shedding of His own blood and His vicarius death upon the cross, paid that price in full.
3 Those who for whatever reason reject the offer of forgiveness inherent in the atonement, and thus are not included in the number of the redeemed, must pay the price themselves.
If the above be true, I have a number of questions.
a Why is it that the majority of Christian churches today teach that men who die in their sins do not die, but live for all eternity being tortured in hell?
b If it be true that eternal torment is the just penalty for sin, then why did Jesus not pay it?
c If the reward for those who do accept the gospel is eternal life (John 3:16,36; Rom. 6:23) and no churches deny this, why do those same churches insist that the wicked also receive eternal life, which is denied by the very same scriptures?(John 3:16,36; Rom. 6:23)
d And finally, if eternal torment is the just penalty for sin as most contend, we must logically conclude that because Jesus did not pay that price, then the gospel is a sham and we all, both Christian and pagan alike, are doomed to spend eternity suffering together.
