Informative answers re The Crusades and slave trade

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Debp

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2020
3,170
4,527
113
California
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This Christian has some informative answers to Muslims and even others on the topics of The Crusades and the slave trade.

 

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
13,893
5,287
113
55
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Crusades showed the greatness of the White people. Therefore, it is demonized today cause we cannot admit the White Race ever did anything good. This vid is very enlightening.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Debp

Debp

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2020
3,170
4,527
113
California
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
These things do not define Christianity what does is the message of Gods love and justice in the world.
The speaker (Bob) in the first video is at Speakers' Corner in London, England. Apparently Speakers' Corner has become like Sharia corner seeking converts to Islam.

Therefore Bob is doing Christian apologetics....some Muslim asked about The Crusades and slavery, trying to put down Christianity.

So Bob is explaining the reason behind The Crusades and also that Islam has a long history of buying and selling slaves even till now.


Btw, I read that the reason you will not see mixed races in Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia (maybe elsewhere, too) is because when the Muslims fathered babies with their African slaves....they killed the babies!
 

Debp

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2020
3,170
4,527
113
California
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Crusades showed the greatness of the White people. Therefore, it is demonized today cause we cannot admit the White Race ever did anything good. This vid is very enlightening.

Yes, that video is really informative!

So the Muslims did 548 battles pushing into Christian countries and overtaking them in the Middle East, Europe and North Africa. Whereas The Crusaders only did a handful of battles trying to free fellow Christians.
 

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
13,893
5,287
113
55
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, that video is really informative!

So the Muslims did 548 battles pushing into Christian countries and overtaking them in the Middle East, Europe and North Africa. Whereas The Crusaders only did a handful of battles trying to free fellow Christians.
And while people lament how horrible the Crusades are, they ignore:
  1. How bad what they were reacting to was; the 100's of Islamic invasions for centuries.
  2. The good it did. By taking to Islams homeland, the attacks on Europe stopped, which lead to the Age of Enlightment, Discovery, and with the Industrial Revolution, the modern age of scientific, inventive, technological and financial progress never seen in human history.
While people lament Columbus for his sins, they forget what his motivation was. With the collapse of the Christian capital, Constantinople, just a few generations ago, the trade routes established by Marco Polo were effectively closed, being too dangeous and expensive from Islamism. Columbus' motivation was 2 fold: establish Christianity and create new trade routes.
 
  • Love
Reactions: Debp

Jericho

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2023
302
378
63
49
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Here's an article I wrote on Islam and the Crusades several years ago:

“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.” “The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.” “Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities– but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.” –Sir Winston Churchill (The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248– 50).

Muhammad was born in 570 AD in the Arabian city of Mecca (present-day Saudi Arabia). He was orphaned at an early age and raised by his uncle. He worked primarily as a merchant until age 40, when he claimed to have been visited by the angel Gabriel and received his first revelation from God. Three years later, he began to preach these revelations publicly. Initially, he didn't gain many followers and was generally treated with hostility. Eventually, he and his small band of followers were forced to leave Mecca for their own safety and relocate to Medina. There, he gained many Jewish followers who converted to Islam. Soon, he would seek revenge on Mecca for expelling him.

The Battle of Badr in 624 marked the first major battle between the Muslims and the Meccans, which ended in a decisive victory for Muhammad. The two forces would engage in several more battles over the years, which eventually culminated in a 10-year peace treaty, only to be broken in two years by Muhammad, and Mecca was conquered without a fight. The fall of one of the richest and most powerful cities in Arabia marked a shift in power and the rise of Islam. Meanwhile, the alliance with the Jewish tribes began to break down, as many Jews would not accept Muhammad as a prophet. After the Battle of the Trench in 627, Muhammad accused the Jews of treachery, so the men were beheaded and the women and children were sold as slaves. Muhammad discovered that it was far easier to spread his religion through force than through peace. Soon after his conquest of Mecca, he conquered the majority of Arabia in just two years. It is of interest to note that the same black flag that Muhammad flew in his time is the same black flag that Jihadists use today, including ISIS.

In the last ten years of his life, he ordered 65 military campaigns alone. Before his death in 632, his final words were said to have been "I was ordered to fight all men until they say, 'There is no God but Allah'". His followers were quick to continue where he had left off. Starting with what is present-day Iraq, Islam began to systematically conquer the entire Middle East. By 700 AD, they had conquered half the territory that had previously belonged to Christendom. From there, Islam set its sights on North Africa. In Alexandra, Egypt, philosopher John Philoponus tried to save the famous Alexandrian library from the Muslim conquerors, but Caliph ‘Umar had it destroyed, saying the Qur’an was sufficient, because those books agreeing with it are useless and those disagreeing are pernicious. After three forays into North Africa, it was finally conquered, and it remains a Muslim stronghold to this day.

A mere 80 years after Muhammad's death, Islam had spread as far east as China and the Indian Ocean and as far west as Morocco. It then spread into Europe through the Iberian Peninsula and into Spain and southern Italy, as well as many major Mediterranean islands, including Sicily, Corsica, Cyprus, Rhodes, Crete, Malta, and Sardinia. On April 30, 711, Muslim troops under the command of Tariq ibn Ziyad crossed the Straights of Gibraltar and landed on mainland Europe for the first time. The invasion took everyone in Spain completely by surprise. Within eight short years, the Muslims had occupied most of Spain. As part of their subjugation, the Spanish were forced to hand over 100 white virgins a year to the Muslims to be used in their harems.

The first Muslim invasion of Sicily took place in 652 but failed, as did repeated attempts in 667 and 720. Between failed attempts and a civil war among the Muslims, it took them 70 years to finally succeed. After the fall of Sicily, they crossed into southern Italy. Rome was pillaged twice, and the Pope was forced to pay a huge tribute. Several major Mediterranean islands were also conquered, including Cyprus, Rhodes, Sardinia, Majorca, Crete, and Malta. These islands became of strategic importance to Muslim fleets.

Pushing the Muslims out of Europe was no easy task. The Reconquista, which means reconquest, was a slow and long process lasting 750 years. The Reconquista began with the first Christian victory at the Battle of Covadonga in 722, and lasted until 1492 with the fall of the last Muslim stronghold during the Grenada War. The Reconquista would prove to be a source of encouragement for another Christian reconquest, the Crusades.
 
  • Like
  • Wow
Reactions: Debp and Wrangler

Jericho

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2023
302
378
63
49
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
By 700 AD, Muslim invaders had conquered nearly half the territory in the Near East that comprised the Eastern Roman Empire, also known as the Byzantine Empire. Twice they had attempted to siege Constantinople, the capital city of the Byzantine Empire, but failed due to the great city walls that protected the city. This second failure would save Constantinople for another 700 years from Islamic conquest.

The pendulum of power swung back several times between the Byzantines and the Muslims. The Battle of Manziker in 1071 would prove to be a major turning point. The Byzantine Empire had suffered a disastrous defeat at the hands of the newest Islamic power, the Seljuq Turks, and for the first time, a Byzantine Emperor had been captured by a Muslim commander. This defeat allowed the Turks to advance into central Anatolia. From there, the Sunni Turks set their sights against a rival Shiite caliphate in Cairo. In doing so, they gained possession of the Holy Land.

When the Islamic Turks were within one hundred miles of Constantinople, the emperor of Byzantium, Emperor Alexius Comnenus of Constantinople, wrote a letter to Robert Flanders asking for help. In his letter, he details many atrocities committed by the Turks, including the abduction of girls, the sodomizing of bishops, the gruesome tortures of Christian pilgrims to the Holy Land, and the desecration of churches, altars, and baptismal fonts. He talks of the wealth and holy relics the Turks would pillage should Constantinople fall. It was this letter that was read by Pope Urban II that inspired the crusades.

"From the confines of Jerusalem and the city of Constantinople, a horrible tale has gone forth and very frequently has been brought to our ears, namely, that a race from the kingdom of the Persians, an accursed race, a race utterly alienated from God, a generation forsooth which has not directed its heart and has not entrusted its spirit to God, has invaded the lands of those Christians and has depopulated them by the sword, pillage, and fire; it has led away a part of the captives into its own country, and a part it has destroyed by cruel tortures; it has either entirely destroyed the churches of God or appropriated them for the rites of its own religion." -Pope Urban II

There were many reasons why the Emperor's plea and the Pope's speech could have fallen on deaf ears. The Western Europeans didn't always get along with the Byzantines, as evident by the Fourth Crusade. For one, they had different heritages. The Western Europeans were Roman, while the Byzantines were Greek. The Romans viewed the Greeks as decadent, while the Orthodox Greeks held Rome's Latin Catholicism in contempt. This brings us to the motivation for the crusades. It wasn't about the idea of acquiring great wealth from the Holy Land; many spent their entire fortunes to get there, and the trek was long and arduous. Nor was it about acquiring new converts to Christianity, although the motivation was a religious one. The primary motivation was to make a pilgrimage to the Holy Land as penance for personal sins and to liberate it from the Muslims. They were also aware of the Muslim invasions into South Western Europe several centuries earlier. A brief summary of the crusades follows:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Debp

Jericho

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2023
302
378
63
49
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The First Crusade:
The First Crusade began in 1095, after Urban II gave a rousing speech in response to Alexius Comnenus' letter. The first siege by the crusaders against the Muslim-held city of Antioch lasted from October 21, 1097, and fell to the crusaders on June 2, 1098. Next, they marched to Jerusalem. After an exhaustive siege and heavy losses on both sides, the crusaders took the city and killed the remaining Muslims and Jews inside. This laid the foundations for several crusader states, including the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

Two important points should be made here. First, the rule of war of that day was that if a city forced a siege instead of surrendering, which resulted in many causalities, then everyone inside was usually slaughtered. Secondly, the Jews chose to fight alongside the Muslims against the crusaders, and frequently they did side with the Muslims.

The Second Crusade:
Slowly, the Muslims regained their strength, and by 1144, they had retaken the city of Edessa. The fall of Edessa led Pope Eugene III to call for a second crusade, which ultimately ended in failure. The two European armies led by Louis VII of France and Conrad III of Germany were defeated by the Suljuk Turks. This failure would set the stage for the Third Crusade. Some blamed the Byzantine Emperor for secretly hindering the crusader army. Often, the Byzantines and crusaders would compete for control of territory for prestige and power. The animosity between the two camps would eventually boil over during the Fourth Crusade.

The Third Crusade:
In 1187, Saladin, the sultan of Egypt, recaptured Jerusalem. Saladin’s victories shocked Europe. Pope Gregory VIII called for a new crusade, which was led by several of Europe’s most important leaders: Philip II of France, Richard the Lionheart of England, and Holy Roman Emperor Frederick I. The Third Crusade was semi-successful in capturing the important cities of Acre and Jaffa, but they were unable to capture the main prize, Jerusalem. This would ultimately lead to the Fourth Crusade. The Third Crusade ended with a treaty between Saladin and King Richard I, which allowed unarmed Christian pilgrims and merchants to visit Jerusalem.

The Fourth Crusade:
The Fourth Crusade was initiated in 1202 by Pope Innocent III with the intention of capturing the Holy Land from Saladin. However, it went completely off course due to internal politics. On the way to Jerusalem, the majority of the crusader leadership entered into an agreement with Byzantine prince Alexios Angelos to divert to Constantinople to help him restore his disposed father as emperor. In return, the crusaders would be given financial and military support to take Jerusalem. Alexios Angels was crowned as co-emperor with the support of the crusaders, but he was quickly ousted from power during an uprising within Constantinople and murdered a short time later. This left the crusaders without their promised payment. In frustration, the crusaders ended up sacking Constantinople.

The Fifth Crusade:
The Fifth Crusade was launched by Pope Innocent III and his successor, Pope Honorius III, with the goal of capturing Jerusalem by first conquering the Ayyubid state in Egypt. The crusaders captured Damietta in Egypt in 1219 but were defeated in Cairo and failed to capture Jerusalem. It ended with Sultan Al-Kamil agreeing to an eight-year peace agreement with Europe.

The Sixth Crusade:
The German emperor, Frederick II, launched a crusade in 1228 and, through diplomacy, achieved unexpected success: Jerusalem, Nazareth, and Bethlehem were delivered to the crusaders for a period of ten years. The treaty allowed Christians to rule over most of Jerusalem, while Muslims were given control of the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aksa mosque.

The Seventh Crusade:
A lesser-known fact of history is the Mongol invasion of the Muslim world. The grandsons of Genghis Kahn, Mongke and his brother Hulagu, set out to completely destroy Islam, and they nearly succeeded. In 1244, the Khwarezmians, who were recently displaced by the Mongols, took control of Jerusalem. Support for the crusades in Europe began to wane, and despite calls from Pope Innocent IV, there was no great enthusiasm for another crusade. The only one interested was Louis IX of France. King Louis organized a crusade against Egypt from 1248 to 1254, but it ended in complete failure. King Louis and his army were captured and held for ransom. Louis spent much of the crusade living at the court of the Crusader kingdom in Acre.

The Eighth Crusade:
The second-to-last crusade was also organized by France’s Louis IX in 1270, with the idea of coming to the aid of what was left of the Crusader states in Syria. However, the crusade was diverted to Tunis, where Louis spent only two months before dying. His disease-ridden army dispersed back to Europe shortly afterwards.

The Ninth Crusade:
Edward I of England undertook another expedition against the Baibars in 1271. The Ninth Crusade saw several impressive victories for Edward over Baibars. However, Edward had to withdraw due to pressing concerns at home and didn't feel he could resolve the internal conflicts within the Crusader states. By now, enthusiasm for the crusades had dried up. Many Europeans began to resent the taxes imposed on them to support the Crusader kingdom. After nearly two centuries, the crusader kingdoms in the Holy Land were abandoned. Antioch fell in 1268; Tripoli fell in 1289; and Acre was seized in 1291. Those Christians unable to leave these cities were massacred or enslaved, and the last traces of Christian rule disappeared. Eventually, Constantinople itself would fall to the Muslims in 1453.

While the Crusades proved to be a mixed bag of successes and failures, they did, however, halt the Muslim advance into Europe. As the historian Viscount John Julius Norwich noted, “Had they captured Constantinople in the seventh century rather than the fifteenth, all Europe—and America—might be Muslim today.” It should also be noted that the Crusader kingdoms along the coast survived nearly as long as the United States has been a nation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Debp