Intro to The Revelation

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Insight

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ALL of that... is the denying that God came in the flesh as Jesus of Nazareth. And that qualifies you as an antichrist per John.

I Jn 2:22
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
(KJV)

I Jn 4:3
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
(KJV)

To proclaim Jesus as The Christ which John specifies, is to say Jesus of Nazareth is GOD. It's because Christ's Title of "Immanuel" per the Old Testament prophet of Isaiah declares The Christ as The Father and as The Almighty (Isa.9). The Title Immanuel means 'with us is God'.

To DENY that Jesus of Nazareth is The Christ, Immanuel (God with us), is to deny that Jesus is GOD, and also to make Jesus of Nazareth as no different than any other flesh man, and thus not truly able to be the Perfect Sacrifice for our sins.

The particular LIE that Jesus of Nazareth is not GOD, and by dwelling only on Jesus' flesh to try and disconnect Him from The Godhead is a teaching of false Jews who hate Christianity.


No one is denying the Jesus is "God with us" for He said did he not John 5:19;30 ?

Veteran we are waiting for you to show us your belief in the Trinity from the Bible? Can you support your beliefs with real Bible verses?

 
Veteran worships one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the persons; nor dividing the substance. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost.


Can you show us such phrases as "Trinity in Unity" or God in Trinity?

Are you willing to accept and acknoweldge the doctrine of the Trinity has been formulated and imposed upon Christianity from the Nice Council AD352 and has its origins in Greek Mythology?

Maybe we could quote Johann Lorenz von Mosheim and his work on the Trinity?

Insight
 

Insight

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This all being true, it is important to note that the Holy Spirit, indwelling every Saved Person, never disagrees with itself! Your very premise draws upon one narrow portion of scripture that, when read with your understanding, does not agree with other scripture, i.e. John1:1-3. This is not the only scripture it disagrees with but it is, IMHOP, the best place to begin with, fo this heretical idea. Jesus is the Beginning and the End but you need to broaden your scope, considerably! But before you can even begin to do that you need to rid your self of the Anti Christ that is teaching you. May God bless you with forgiveness!

So are you saying that you cannot reconcile Rev 1:8 & John 1:1-3???

It appears you agree Jesus has a beginning and an end, hence the term "alpha and omega" and you also know Jesus was created by the Word and "became" flesh. He represents all those who are created beings.

however you are prepared to cling to your understanding of John 1:1-3 even though another Scripture "may" contradicts that understanding?

Insight
 

th1b.taylor

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So are you saying that you cannot reconcile Rev 1:8 & John 1:1-3???

It appears you agree Jesus has a beginning and an end, hence the term "alpha and omega" and you also know Jesus was created by the Word and "became" flesh. He represents all those who are created beings.

however you are prepared to cling to your understanding of John 1:1-3 even though another Scripture "may" contradicts that understanding?

Insight
You are on another subject than the original. You are out of order and, per my Bible instruction, you are out of order and this string is finished. For those interested in the study the next chapter is in a new string.
 

Insight

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You are on another subject than the original. You are out of order and, per my Bible instruction, you are out of order and this string is finished. For those interested in the study the next chapter is in a new string.

I understand.

When confronted with a real and powerful message you would prefer to shrink back into what you have been taught rather than search out the matter for yourself.

For instance.

Heb 1:3,13;8:1;10:12;12:2 you believe God sits at the right hand side of Himself
free-confused-smileys-327.gif
And being seated at His right side which is lower than the throne itself, you also believe Jesus being God can also ranked lower than Himself
free-confused-smileys-327.gif
You believe Jesus was given a name he already possessed and an inheritance
he already enjoyed.

Please come back when you are ready to face the tough questions.

Insight
 

BibleScribe

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Jun 17, 2011
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For Reference:

Philippians 2

[sup]5[/sup] Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, [sup]6[/sup] who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, [sup]7[/sup] but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.


Please note the "equal with God", -- versus the statement by "Insight" that Jesus was not equal with GOD.



Beware of false teachers.

BibleScribe
 

Insight

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To All,

I don't believe I've ever accused anyone of heresy, but this is as close as it gets.



BibleScribe

Nice twist BibleScribe,

A thorough Bible Student will know the Son is subject to the Will of the Father in all things. 1 Cor 15:28KJV just as you are subject to Christ Eph 5:24 KJV

But by Contrast Jesus Christ represents the Father perfectly in all things so the honour "we" prescribe to Jesus is no different to God Himself.

Thats what make Jesus unique...being the firstborn from the dead Col 1:15,18 ah good old Rom 8:29KJV

Enjoy

Insight
 

BibleScribe

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Jun 17, 2011
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"Of Jesus Christ which God gave unto him" Rev 1:1KJV

This teaches us that Jesus Christ was wholly dependent upon God for the knowledge that he passed on to "his servants," and proves conclusively that he is not co-equal with the Father.
Like Jesus we continue to learn from the Father (Yahweh) for eternity.
free-happy-smileys-317.gif



For Reference:

Philippians 2

[sup]5[/sup] Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, [sup]6[/sup] who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, [sup]7[/sup] but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.


Please note the "equal with God", -- versus the statement by "Insight" that Jesus was not equal with GOD.



Beware of false teachers.

BibleScribe


Nice twist BibleScribe,

...



Please allow me to repeat exactly who is ~twisting~ TRUTH:


For Reference:

Philippians 2

[sup]5[/sup] Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, [sup]6[/sup] who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, [sup]7[/sup] but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.


Please note the "equal with God", -- versus the statement by "Insight" that Jesus was not equal with GOD.



Beware of false teachers.

BibleScribe




And yes, you are heretical, if this helps.


BibleScribe











To All,

A false religion does not pronounce itself as such, but the fruit bears witness:



...

Jesus is the Alpha and Omega -- he has a beginning and an end.

Your error is found in thinking that Jesus Christ is the actual Word of the Eternal God (Yahweh)...you fail to see that he “became” the Word made Flesh through suffering...and his sonship was on the basis of His Father giving him life.

Jesus did not pre-exist.

Insight



And once again, each is advised to be wary of false teachers.


BibleScribe
 

Insight

New Member
Aug 7, 2011
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BibleScribe

Your last post is a mess...can you clean it up a little?

Here is what you believe:

God who being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
free-confused-smileys-298.gif
[sup]7[/sup] but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and
coming in the likeness of men. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted God, and given God a name which is above every name
free-confused-smileys-327.gif


And I am the false teacher!

Insight
 

veteran

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Aug 6, 2010
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I don't see the rest of Rev.1, so I feel led to provide it here.


Rev 1:9-20
9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

John declares his relationship with those he was given to write our Lord's Revelation down to, the seven Churches in Asia Minor. John was being held captive on the Isle of Patmos when Christ gave Him His Revelation to send to the Churches. So this is about Testimony of Jesus Christ given through... John, His Apostle.


10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

John had just spoke of Christ's future coming back in the 7th verse, linking the subject of this verse with it. It's about the final trumpet, the 7th, the "last trumpet" and "trump of God" which Apostle Paul also spoke of that will occur on "the day of The Lord". John hearing that "great voice, as of a trumpet" points back to the "great shout" of 1 Thess.4:16 and John 5:28-29. This event of a great trumpet sounding at the end was first given in prophecy like Isa.27:13 and Zech.9:14.


11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

The Alpha and Omega is a type expression God first used in the OT Books of Isa.41:4, where He said of Himself, "I The LORD, the first, and with the last, I AM HE." (See also Isa.44:6; 48:12 where He proclaims this expression also.) By this type of expression, Christ Jesus is proclaiming He is The God of The Old Testament. Alpha and Omega are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet. The expression is symbolic of completeness, eternal.

John is told by Christ Jesus to write down what he sees in a book, and send it to the seven Churches in Asia. These were physical locations in Asia Minor. They were real existing Churches in John's days. And they all represent seven 'types' of Churches to be found all the way to the end of this world.


12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

In The Spirit, John turns to see Who spoke to him, and he sees seven golden candlesticks. John will be later told what these seven golden candlesticks represent in the Heavenly. In the midst of the candlesticks stood "the Son of man", an expression for our Lord Jesus Christ. John then begins to describe how He was manifest to him.

14 His head and His hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and His eyes were as a flame of fire;
15 And His feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and His voice as the sound of many waters.
16 And He had in His right hand seven stars: and out of His mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and His countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

In this description is a parallel to God's Presence Whom Daniel saw in Dan.7:9 and Dan.10:6, and Ezekiel in Ezek.8:2. This is our Lord Jesus Whom John saw.


17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. And He laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, "Fear not; I am the first and the last:"
18 I am He That liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

No doubt now that John was seeing our Lord Jesus Christ Who died on the cross but was raised from the dead to the right hand of The Father. These "keys" are symbolic for His Salvation, the door which He opens for those of Faith, but closes upon those who refuse that Faith (Matt.25).


19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

Christ commands John to write down what he "hast seen" (past), and things "which are" (present), and things "which shall be hereafter" (future). So as just about every Book of God's Word is written in this way, covering things past, present, and future, our Lord's Book of Revelation is no different.


20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in My right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
(KJV)

Oft times in God's Word, lot of prophetic Messages are not given until the latter parts of the chapter or Book. I think it serves as a type of test by our LORD, to see who's paying attention or not.

With this verse, John is told the mystery of the seven stars and seven candlesticks. The seven stars represent 'angels' over the seven Churches. And the seven candlesticks represent the seven Churches. In Rev.2, Christ warns the Church at Ephesus that if they didn't repent, He would remove their 'candlestick' out of its place. So where are those seven candlesticks? They are in Heaven, and represent a Heavenly pattern for seven Churches. This pattern was first given in Zechariah 4. This mystery is going to relate strongly to a later Message Christ gave in Revelation 11 about His two witnesses and two of the candlesticks.
 

Insight

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Veteran we are waiting for you to show us your belief in the Trinity from the Bible? Can you support your beliefs with real Bible verses?

Can you show us such phrases as "Trinity in Unity" or God in Trinity?

Are you willing to accept and acknoweldge the doctrine of the Trinity has been formulated and imposed upon Christianity from the Nice Council AD352 and has its origins in Greek Mythology?

Maybe we could quote Johann Lorenz von Mosheim and his work on the Trinity?

Insight

You never did get back to me on these questions?