Iran vs Israel | Gog and Magog War?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Marilyn C

Active Member
Mar 16, 2016
913
235
43
Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
A lot of misapplication of Scripture here. And you still don't get it. Read again from my previous post:

"Didn't you bother to read the context to find out that God has rebuked Judah (not northern Israel) during the days of Isaiah about 740BC. It is because although they were still performing religious rituals in the temple, they were morally corrupt, socially unjust, and spiritually unfaithful? Read Isaiah 1:18-20 carefully. God called them out for fake religion and warning them of judgment unless they repent. Well you should know what happened to Judah since she has not repented, during the days of Jeremiah. Nothing to do with Daniel 9. Selah!"

Now, for the umpteenth time—Daniel 9:27 is not about Old Testament Israel. That’s right—she was already made desolate in verse 26. You missed that part? Again? The kingdom was taken from her, and Christ confirmed the covenant with the New Testament Israel, which is the Church. That’s who now carries the kingdom mandate since the Cross. THIS is who offers sacrifice—not with animals, but through Christ Himself which He will end it -- AFTER finish building the church with all Elect secured FIRST. This is something that you are in blind to this truth.

So yes, once more for clarity: you’ve got the wrong sacrifice in verse 27. Still clinging to the temple stones and goats, are we?

And as for your interpretation of Daniel 8, 11, and 12? Antiochus Epiphanes again? Of course. I figured. The same recycled tradition that refuses to see the broader prophetic fulfillment in Christ and His body. You're not just missing a piece of the puzzle—you’re working from the wrong box altogether, using with history book for fulfillment instead of biblical history!

But hey, keep holding on to that doctrine if you must.... just don’t confuse it with the truth.
Bible-Read-Smiley.gif


So yeah, YOU are done as far as I am concerned.
Oh, so God made an oops? God. who is omniscient knew that Israel could not obey Him however, God, Himself will accomplish what they can`t do just as He has for us.

And BTW I`m looking to see the greatest army that ever was or will be come down to the Golan Heights in late January. There you can have a field day with that, if it doesn`t happen. (Joel 2: 1 & 2)
 

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2023
1,679
442
83
55
Somewhere west of Mississippi River
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Oh, so God made an oops? God. who is omniscient knew that Israel could not obey Him however, God, Himself will accomplish what they can`t do just as He has for us.

And BTW I`m looking to see the greatest army that ever was or will be come down to the Golan Heights in late January. There you can have a field day with that, if it doesn`t happen. (Joel 2: 1 & 2)

Golan Heights? Don't you mean the mount of Megiddo? :) The question is, do you understand what the Lord talked about here?
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
12,956
5,203
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Whatever.
LOL. Typical of you to not care if what you say is accurate or not. You just believe whatever you want to believe. Who cares if you're right or not? Not you. All you can say is "Whatever".

All Amillennialists are scripture re-writers,
LOL. All you have to offer anymore are false accusations.

because taking Revelation 20:4-6 out of the passage would make no difference to what is being said about the binding of Satan in order that he cannot deceive the nations until the thousand years are over, but without Revelation 20:4 no one would know when that thousand years will commence.
You interpret Revelation 20:4-6 in isolation from the rest of scripture. Look at what is written in Revelation 20:6. Other scripture explicitly teaches that Jesus began reigning after His resurrection (Matt 28:18, Eph 1:19-23, Rev 1:5-6, Col 1:12-13). Does that matter to you? No. You just say "Whatever" to that. Other scripture describes His followers as being made priests long ago (1 Peter 2:9, Rev 1:5-6). Does that matter to you? No. You just say "Whatever" to that. Other scripture says Christ's resurrection was the first resurrection (Acts 26:23, 1 Cor 15:20). Does that matter to you? No. You just say "Whatever" to that. Well, I say "Whatever" to Premill because it's a false doctrine that can't hold up to scrutiny.

Unfortunately for scripture deniers, Revelation 20:4 indicates that the thousand years will not commence before the beast Revelation 13 and 17 and 19 talks about, has ascended from out of the abyss, and this is besides all the other scriptures which indicate Satan has not yet been bound.
You don't even know what the beast represents, so how can you comment on anything related to the beast? In relation to the seven heads of the beast, John indicated that they represent seven kingdoms and kings. John wrote "five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space" (Rev 17:10). If the beast was completely incapacitated in the abyss at the time he wrote the book, how could he say that one of the seven heads or kings (kingdoms) "is" at the time? That wouldn't make sense if the beast was completely incapacitated. You're not recognizing that the beast, the locusts and the dragon (Satan) being bound in the abyss symbolically represents restraint on their activities and a decrease in their power and influence rather than them being completely incapacitated.
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
12,956
5,203
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Oh, so God made an oops? God. who is omniscient knew that Israel could not obey Him however, God, Himself will accomplish what they can`t do just as He has for us.
When you say "us", who are you referring to exactly and what do you think God hasn't done for Israel that He has done for "us"?
 

Marilyn C

Active Member
Mar 16, 2016
913
235
43
Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Golan Heights? Don't you mean the mount of Megiddo? :) The question is, do you understand what the Lord talked about here?
The Golan Heights are further to the East near Syria. There are mountains there, and a volcano that will spew brimstone etc over the great army. (Ez. 38: 22)

Armageddon or Mount of Megiddo gathering is at the end of the trib.
 
Last edited:

Marilyn C

Active Member
Mar 16, 2016
913
235
43
Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
When you say "us", who are you referring to exactly and what do you think God hasn't done for Israel that He has done for "us"?
We, the Body of Christ. And what did we ever do for our salvation? So, with the earthly nation of Israel, they could never fulfill God`s plans for them, for He alone is the Worthy One to fulfill all His purposes.
 

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2023
1,679
442
83
55
Somewhere west of Mississippi River
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Golan Heights are further to the East near Syria. There are mountains there, and a volcano that will spew brimstone etc over the great army. (Ez. 38: 22)

Armageddon or Mount of Megiddo gathering is at the end of the trib.

LOL

SPECULATIONS!

None of this will happen! Armageddon is not what you think it will be. A physical war with guns and missiles plus the burp from mother earth.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Exegesis

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2020
4,338
1,549
113
Africa
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
βασιλεύω/βασιλεύσουσιν basileuo: To rule, to reign.

Christ has made us kings and priests (Revelation 1:6). We shall reign [βασιλεύω/βασιλεύσουσιν] in life [zoe] through Jesus Christ (Romans 5:17).

Christ has made the 24 elders kings and priests and they shall reign [βασιλεύω/βασιλεύσουσιν] on the earth (Revelation 5:10).

When the seventh trumpet sounds John heard great voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign [βασιλεύω/βασιλεύσουσιν] to the ages of the ages."

In the context of Revelation 20 (and of the entire Revelation), Revelation 20:6 is still talking about those whom John saw alive [zao] and reigning [βασιλεύω/βασιλεύσουσιν] with Christ for a thousand years - after they had been beheaded for their testimony to Christ and their refusal to worship the beast that had ascended from the abyss:

Revelation 13:7-8 & 15-18; Revelation 14:9-13; and Revelation 11:7
provide the context of Revelation 20:4-6, the verses do not exist in isolation from the rest of the Revelation, and this is easily understood by all who do not hold themselves willfully blind to the truth.

Those who hold themselves willfully blind to the truth will also ignore or deny (or both) the fact that the metaphor of chains, the key to the abyss, and a seal set on him are meant to indicate that Satan's ability to deceive the nations was completely incapacitated when John saw it happening in Revelation 20, and there is no indication anywhere in the New Testament that this has happened yet;

and they will ignore the fact that in Genesis chapter 3, we read of how Satan appeared in the Garden of Eden and deceived mankind; and that Revelation 12:9 calls Satan "the great dragon" and "the old serpent called Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world; and that the reason given for Satan being bound in Revelation 20:1-3 is "that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years have expired";

and they will ignore the fact that nothing in Revelation chapters 12-13 or Ephesians 2:2 suggests that this has ever occurred; and they will ignore the fact that the saints are warned to be weary of his wiles and to resist him, and to put on the full armor of God because "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood" (1 Peter 5:8-9; Ephesians 6:11-12; Revelation 2:9-10 & Revelation 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; James 4:7 ).

Those who hold themselves willfully blind to the truth will (and have, and do) use weak and lame and nonsensical arguments such as equating the fact that Christ destroyed Satan's power over death forever and ever (not just for a thousand years) through His own death and resurrection, with Satan being "bound for a thousand years"!!;

and such as asserting that Jesus talking about "binding a strong man" (so that his house could be entered and his goods plundered), was Jesus telling us that Satan was being bound for a thousand years - and they argue this despite the fact that Mark tells us clearly in Mark 3:23 that Jesus was answering those who had accused Him, in parables

- and it's so easy for those who do not seek to corrupt the scriptures to understand that that "the strong man's house" in Jesus parable represented the body of the demon-possessed man, and the binding of the strong man and entering his house to plunder his goods was an illustration that Jesus was giving them of the fact that He is infinitely more powerful than Satan, at any time.

Those who use the above weak and lame argument only prove that the parable is also evidence that Satan did not need to be bound or restricted in any way from deceiving the nations (which is what Revelation 20:1-3 is talking about) before the gospel could be spread by the power of the Word of God and the Holy Spirit to the nations.

Those who willfully blind themselves to the truth willfully blind themselves to the tenses of verses of scripture, such as the verses talking about the fact that those whom Christ has made kings and priests shall reign as kings and priests with Christ on the earth.

Those who do not allow scripture to teach us what it's saying but instead in their hubris believe that they can teach scripture what scripture is saying, hold themselves willfully ignorant of all these biblical facts, and more.

And you will often find in these boards those who hold themselves willfully blind to the truth being extremely arrogant and exceptionally rude to those who disagree with them (and actually expecting an answer to what they post). They will accuse you of not knowing what you are talking about, of being being carnal in your thinking, of not having any spiritual discernment, of not understanding this or that, or of not understanding the false interpretation they have given to parts of scripture (as though what they said about it, was true).

Post #63 being one small example of many (and much greater) examples of this. In their faith, such people actually seem to believe that scripture points primarily to their beloved (in Post #63's case, Amillennialist) false doctrine, and only secondarily to Christ, His Kingdom, and His coming Kingdom.

It's no wonder we see so many examples in these boards of how shamefully arrogant some Amillennialists are when they talk to those who disagree with them, whether the person responds in likewise fashion or not.

Many (like myself) have made the mistake in the past of responding to their rudeness and arrogance in like fashion, or even worse, at times even beginning that way, knowing what kind of rudeness will inevitably come from such followers of false doctrine.

But it's a mistake responding in like fashion, because it's not what Jesus wants of us. Jesus said, "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." (Matthew 15:14). He said this immediately after saying that they are "hypocrites who draw nigh unto Him with their mouths, and honor Him with their lips; but their heart is far from Him" and saying that "in vain they do worship Him, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

Naturally, in their hubris they did not realize or know that Jesus was talking of them (until He Himself made it obvious to them that He was talking of them). Nothing has changed in the case of the many today who teach theologies based on the false doctrines they adhere to (Amillennialism being one of a number of examples of this).

So I'll post this post, and leave it at that. The blind will continue to lead the blind - and to be arrogant about it while they do.
 
Last edited:
  • Haha
Reactions: Spiritual Israelite

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
12,956
5,203
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We, the Body of Christ.
Yes. The church. Consisting of Jew and Gentile believers.

And what did we ever do for our salvation? So, with the earthly nation of Israel, they could never fulfill God`s plans for them, for He alone is the Worthy One to fulfill all His purposes.
What are you saying here? Can you please try to be clear? I asked you what do you think God hasn't done for Israel that He has done for "us"? You didn't answer that question, so please answer it.
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
12,956
5,203
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
βασιλεύω/βασιλεύσουσιν basileuo: To rule, to reign.

Christ has made us kings and priests (Revelation 1:6). We shall reign [βασιλεύω/βασιλεύσουσιν] in life [zoe] through Jesus Christ (Romans 5:17).

Christ has made the 24 elders kings and priests and they shall reign [βασιλεύω/βασιλεύσουσιν] on the earth (Revelation 5:10).

When the seventh trumpet sounds John heard great voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign [βασιλεύω/βασιλεύσουσιν] to the ages of the ages."

In the context of Revelation 20 (and of the entire Revelation), Revelation 20:6 is still talking about those whom John saw alive [zao] and reigning [βασιλεύω/βασιλεύσουσιν] with Christ for a thousand years - after they had been beheaded for their testimony to Christ and their refusal to worship the beast that had ascended from the abyss:

Revelation 13:7-8 & 15-18; Revelation 14:9-13; and Revelation 11:7
provide the context of Revelation 20:4-6, the verses do not exist in isolation from the rest of the Revelation, and this is easily understood by all who do not hold themselves willfully blind to the truth.

Those who hold themselves willfully blind to the truth will also ignore or deny (or both) the fact that the metaphor of chains, the key to the abyss, and a seal set on him are meant to indicate that Satan's ability to deceive the nations was completely incapacitated when John saw it happening in Revelation 20, and there is no indication anywhere in the New Testament that this has happened yet;

and they will ignore the fact that in Genesis chapter 3, we read of how Satan appeared in the Garden of Eden and deceived mankind; and that Revelation 12:9 calls Satan "the great dragon" and "the old serpent called Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world; and that the reason given for Satan being bound in Revelation 20:1-3 is "that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years have expired";

and they will ignore the fact that nothing in Revelation chapters 12-13 or Ephesians 2:2 suggests that this has ever occurred; and they will ignore the fact that the saints are warned to be weary of his wiles and to resist him, and to put on the full armor of God because "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood" (1 Peter 5:8-9; Ephesians 6:11-12; Revelation 2:9-10 & Revelation 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; James 4:7 ).

Those who hold themselves willfully blind to the truth will (and have, and do) use weak and lame and nonsensical arguments such as equating the fact that Christ destroyed Satan's power over death forever and ever (not just for a thousand years) through His own death and resurrection, with Satan being "bound for a thousand years"!!;

and such as asserting that Jesus talking about "binding a strong man" (so that his house could be entered and his goods plundered), was Jesus telling us that Satan was being bound for a thousand years - and they argue this despite the fact that Mark tells us clearly in Mark 3:23 that Jesus was answering those who had accused Him, in parables

- and it's so easy for those who do not seek to corrupt the scriptures to understand that that "the strong man's house" in Jesus parable represented the body of the demon-possessed man, and the binding of the strong man and entering his house to plunder his goods was an illustration that Jesus was giving them of the fact that He is infinitely more powerful than Satan, at any time.

Those who use the above weak and lame argument only prove that the parable is also evidence that Satan did not need to be bound or restricted in any way from deceiving the nations (which is what Revelation 20:1-3 is talking about) before the gospel could be spread by the power of the Word of God and the Holy Spirit to the nations.

Those who willfully blind themselves to the truth willfully blind themselves to the tenses of verses of scripture, such as the verses talking about the fact that those whom Christ has made kings and priests shall reign as kings and priests with Christ on the earth.

Those who do not allow scripture to teach us what it's saying but instead in their hubris believe that they can teach scripture what scripture is saying, hold themselves willfully ignorant of all these biblical facts, and more.

And you will often find in these boards those who hold themselves willfully blind to the truth being extremely arrogant and exceptionally rude to those who disagree with them (and actually expecting an answer to what they post). They will accuse you of not knowing what you are talking about, of being being carnal in your thinking, of not having any spiritual discernment, of not understanding this or that, or of not understanding the false interpretation they have given to parts of scripture (as though what they said about it, was true).

Post #63 being one small example of many (and much greater) examples of this. In their faith, such people actually seem to believe that scripture points primarily to their beloved (in Post #63's case, Amillennialist) false doctrine, and only secondarily to Christ, His Kingdom, and His coming Kingdom.

It's no wonder we see so many examples in these boards of how shamefully arrogant some Amillennialists are when they talk to those who disagree with them, whether the person responds in likewise fashion or not.

Many (like myself) have made the mistake in the past of responding to their rudeness and arrogance in like fashion, or even worse, at times even beginning that way, knowing what kind of rudeness will inevitably come from such followers of false doctrine.

But it's a mistake responding in like fashion, because it's not what Jesus wants of us. Jesus said, "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." (Matthew 15:14). He said this immediately after saying that they are "hypocrites who draw nigh unto Him with their mouths, and honor Him with their lips; but their heart is far from Him" and saying that "in vain they do worship Him, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

Naturally, in their hubris they did not realize or know that Jesus was talking of them (until He Himself made it obvious to them that He was talking of them). Nothing has changed in the case of the many today who teach theologies based on the false doctrines they adhere to (Amillennialism being one of a number of examples of this).

So I'll post this post, and leave it at that. The blind will continue to lead the blind - and to be arrogant about it while they do.
Some people ignore that the time of the judgment of the dead, which is described in Revelation 20:11-15, is signaled by the seventh trumpet which has the dead being judged around that time (Rev 11:18) instead of 1,000+ years later as Premils like you believe. And they ignore that the dead are judged right after being resurrected (John 5:28-29, Daniel 12:2) instead of living on the earth for a thousand years afterwards. And they ignore many other things while hypocritically accusing others of ignoring things.