1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Is Baptism Required ?

Discussion in 'NonChristian Help Forum' started by Christina, Dec 3, 2006.

  1. Christina

    Christina New Member

    Messages:
    10,900
    Likes Received:
    71
    Is Baptism Required ?
     
  2. Jenn4God

    Jenn4God New Member

    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    Baptism isn't required for salvation but is required in your relationship with God. You won't lose your salvation, as that can never be taken from you once it is received. Baptism simply strengthens your relationship with our Father, provided it is done properly.
     
  3. SilentFlight

    SilentFlight New Member

    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    0
    what about confirmation?
     
  4. Jenn4God

    Jenn4God New Member

    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    (SilentFlight;4661)
    what about confirmation?
    Confirmation? The Bible clearly states that salvation is only obtained through faith. Good works (Baptism,confirmation,etc) are not required. Confirmation is usaully only required by some churches but not by God. Both of these things deeply please Him but we don't have to do them. As Christians or Jews, we should, however, desire to do these things that please the Lord.
     
  5. pointer

    pointer New Member

    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    0
    (kriss;4567)
    Is Baptism Required ?
    Baptism in the Spirit is essential, but water baptism may not be. 'If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.' Rom 10:9-11 NIVPaul here reflects Jesus' warning:'If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.' Luke 9:26-27 NIVIn New Testament times, water baptism was a public witness that one had given allegiance to a leader or cause; one was baptised in the name of someone or something, identifying one as committed, and publically committed. In the case of Christians, it was indeed a public declaration that one was neither ashamed of faith in Christ, nor afraid of the persecution that often followed. One could do the same thing today by writing a declaration of commitment and placing it in a newspaper, or standing up in a public meeting and declaring one's following. In some countries that could be a very dangerous thing to do. In others, there are so many false Christians that baptism would attract only smiles and presents, with no danger attached. Wherever one is, the essential thing is that one is known as a Christian; one cannot be a Christian 'in the dark'. Today, in the West, one is known as a true Christian by one's actions, or lack of them, rather than one's words; and the West has no shortage of opprobrium and indeed hatred for true Christians. There is danger for real Christians wherever they are.
     
  6. MickinEngland

    MickinEngland New Member

    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    1
    Which saves, Jesus or water?We know the answer of course, - Jesus saves, and nothing else [​IMG]
     
  7. Christina

    Christina New Member

    Messages:
    10,900
    Likes Received:
    71
    (pointer;5147)
    Baptism in the Spirit is essential, but water baptism may not be. 'If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.' Rom 10:9-11 NIVPaul here reflects Jesus' warning:'If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.' Luke 9:26-27 NIVIn New Testament times, water baptism was a public witness that one had given allegiance to a leader or cause; one was baptised in the name of someone or something, identifying one as committed, and publically committed. In the case of Christians, it was indeed a public declaration that one was neither ashamed of faith in Christ, nor afraid of the persecution that often followed. One could do the same thing today by writing a declaration of commitment and placing it in a newspaper, or standing up in a public meeting and declaring one's following. In some countries that could be a very dangerous thing to do. In others, there are so many false Christians that baptism would attract only smiles and presents, with no danger attached. Wherever one is, the essential thing is that one is known as a Christian; one cannot be a Christian 'in the dark'. Today, in the West, one is known as a true Christian by one's actions, or lack of them, rather than one's words; and the West has no shortage of opprobrium and indeed hatred for true Christians. There is danger for real Christians wherever they are.
    Pointer really enoyed your post it was meaningful short and right on point!
     
  8. MickinEngland

    MickinEngland New Member

    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    1
    In the late 1990's I was sitting on a bench in Leicester Town Hall square (England) with many other passersby watching a Baptist religious meeting taking place in the square involving singing and preaching etc. Many of the baptists were mingling with the crowd in friendly chat and discussion,and several latched on to me,but it seemed the only question they were obsessed with was "Have you been baptised?" I politely explained to them over and over that I hadn't been baptised because I have no need for it,and whenever they opened their Bibles to point out verses that they believed say its essential,I pointed out verses in return that show baptism isn't at all necessary. In the end,one of them went over and got their main minister to come over and give a ruling. I'll never forget him,he was tall,elegant,well-dressed,relaxed and smiling,and with the light of Christ burning in his eyes. "What's the matter?" he asked in a quiet,friendly soft voice,to which I replied:- "I love Jesus and I believe he's the Son of God,but I haven't been baptised,so will I be going to Hell?" Back came the smiling answer in that same soft voice without any fuss:- "No,you won't. Anything else?" I said no,nothing else,thanked him for his answer,we shook hands and he moved off still smiling,a man for whom I'll always have the greatest respect and admiration.
     
  9. Christina

    Christina New Member

    Messages:
    10,900
    Likes Received:
    71
    Great story mick
     
  10. MickinEngland

    MickinEngland New Member

    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thanks, I may as well throw in a bit more - Baptism is just a symbolic way of washing sins away. Jesus's words are a far more powerful cleansing agent:-Jesus said:- "You're clean through the word I spoke to you" (John 15:3)Neither does baptism guarantee anybody will get the holy spirit:-"The holy spirit hadn't come upon the Samaritans as they'd simply been baptised" (Acts 8:16)Look, the holy spirit came even before people were baptised:-"The Caesareans have received the holy spirit,so let's baptise them" (Acts 10:47)But baptism is a fabulous idea for those who want it,providing they remember:-1 - It doesn't automatically confer the holy spirit2- It doesn't make them better than the non-baptised3 - Jesus saves,NOT baptismHis blood shed for us is far more potent than weak water:-"..the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin" 1 John 1:7)The following verse puts the whole baptism thing into perspective by suggesting its immature to be over-obsessed with it and other things:-"Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again...instruction about baptisms..." (Heb 6:1/2)
     
  11. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    153
    I feel that Baptism is not necessary,however I also feel that Christ set the example when He Himself was baptized,therefore I think we should be as well
     
  12. pointer

    pointer New Member

    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    0
    (n2thelight;5517)
    I feel that Baptism is not necessary,however I also feel that Christ set the example when He Himself was baptized
    Feelings are untrustworthy. Scripture is trustworthy, and Scripture does not say that Jesus set 'the example' when being baptised.
     
  13. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    153
    pointerQuote"Feelings are untrustworthy. Scripture is trustworthy, and Scripture does not say that Jesus set 'the example' when being baptised"ReplyQuestion,was not Jesus baptised,I don't know bout you but I do see this as an example,and if you don't,well thats your choice,I choose to look at it as an example which is my choice.Scripture does not say that it was'nt an example either
     
  14. pointer

    pointer New Member

    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    0
    (n2thelight;5523)
    I do see this as an example
    So who is in charge? The Holy Spirit, or you?Do you have a reason? Can you prove that you are not just a legalist?
    and if you don't,well thats your choice,I choose to look at it as an example which is my choice.
    But you come here telling others what they should do.
    Scripture does not say that it was'nt an example either
    So Christians can do anything that Scripture does not mention? Should they be Mormons, too?
     
  15. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    153
    PointerYour argument is pointless,however you are correct in that the HolySpirit is in charge,which is why I am led to believe that Christ set the example.As for me proving anything,I don't need to,not to you anyway,your use of the phrase "you Christians" tells me that perhaps you are not(a Christian),and never did I tell anyone what to do.You know, not too long ago I would have had a lot more to say,but we learn,so as I said ,your argument is pointless,so if there comes a time that you really want to learn,let me know.In the mean time I leave you with this verseMatthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you
     
  16. pointer

    pointer New Member

    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    0
    (n2thelight;5545)
    you are correct in that the HolySpirit is in charge
    Thank you. The Holy Spirit does not say that Jesus' baptism was an example, so we must totally ignore and exclude from fellowship anyone who says it is.'Do not go beyond the Scriptures.'
     
  17. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    153
    PointerI don't think you got my meaning,so let me just say it like this,if Christ did it,I think I should.
     
  18. pointer

    pointer New Member

    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    0
    (n2thelight;5578)
    PointerI don't think you got my meaning,so let me just say it like this,if Christ did it,I think I should.
    That's what I supposed you meant. It's not progress, it's just saying the same thing in different words. Why do you think you should do what Jesus did?
     
  19. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    153
    PointerI'll leave you with this study,and I'll let it go. Is Baptism required for salvation? Well, Jesus was Baptized showing us the way. But one of those crucified with Christ was not Baptized, and Jesus told him that he would be in paradise with the Lord. But that man on the other cross was not able to get Baptized, as he was in the process of being crucified; you today have the opportunity to get Baptized. And this was before Christ was glorified, surely had this man become a believer after the Resurrection, the Apostles would have Baptized him. So while Baptism is not written to be a direct salvation issue, it was told us faithful Christians to become Baptized. Below, Jesus instructs that the saved must believe upon Jesus Christ and they are to be Baptized. Jesus says that they are damned if they do not believe upon Him, but He does not state that they are damned who did not get Baptized:Mark 16:14-16 (Jesus speaking)14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.15 And he [Jesus] said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (KJV) I point this out (about Baptism not being a prerequisite to salvation) not to teach that Baptism is optional, it is not optional! But rather, that we may not fear for our deceased loved ones who did not become Baptized before their decease, as well as the children and infants and fetuses who were not Baptized if they died beforehand. Let me repeat: Jesus told us to be Baptized, and if we do not get Baptized then we are in disobedience to the Lord. I would hate to have to answer the Lord on Judgment Day when and if He has occasion to ask: "Why did you not get Baptized as I had instructed the faithful to?" Don't play games with the Lord's instruction, get Baptized Christian! Gal 3:26-2926 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (KJV) Baptism is not some complicated practice, but it means much. Any Christian can Baptize someone. The person being Baptized must simply believe upon Jesus Christ as Savior and Resurrected only begotten Son of God whom died for his/her sins. Any Christian can then take that person to a body of water and fully immerse the person, stating "I Baptize you in the name of Jesus Christ or, I Baptize you in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - it's the same thing as we've shown in another study at: The Holy Spirit & The Holy Trinity, and then raise the person up out of the water. They are now Baptized into the body of Christ. It is not the Christian doing (or officiating) the Baptism that makes the person Baptized, it is the Lord that accomplishes the Baptism, for we do it in His Name thereby asking His seal upon it.NOTE: So as not to sound confusing on what name to Baptize in, see Acts 2:38; 8:16; 10:48; 19:5; Rom 6:3. For after Christ was glorified, it was ALWAYS said to Baptize in the name of Jesus Christ. But like we said, when you say Jesus Christ, you are saying the Father, Son, And Holy Spirit, for they are One (1st John 5:7). To fully understand this and to clear up any reservations that you may have regarding in what name to Baptize in, see The Holy Spirit & The Holy Trinity. When we get Baptized, it is an act of faith and obedience; obedience because our Lord told us to do it, and faith in that when we get Baptized we are declaring that we believe that Christ Jesus died and rose again. It is a type of that which we do when we go under the water as Christ went into the tomb, and we come out of the water as Christ rose from the dead. It is a statement of faith as much as it is obedience to our Lord. Study by Nick Goggin
     
  20. pointer

    pointer New Member

    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    0
    (n2thelight;5585)
    PointerI'll leave you with this study,and I'll let it go.
    That's what 'lie and run' merchants write. Not n2thelight, surely?
    Is Baptism required for salvation? Well, Jesus was Baptized showing us the way.
    Lie #1. Also, note the capitalisation of 'baptism', which may be just a typo, of course.
    had this man become a believer after the Resurrection, the Apostles would have Baptized him.
    The word 'baptism' is again capitalised. Lie #2, unless Goggin simply does not know how to write English correctly. The case must be a weak one if it needs deceptions like these.But I dealt with this earlier, poster, showing that apostolic practice is not necessarily applicable today. Did you not read it? And if you did, why did you not address it? There is a type of cowardly liar who comes into a thread late, pretending not to have seen arguments he cannot deal with honestly. I hope that's not the case here.
    So while Baptism is not written to be a direct salvation issue, it was told us faithful Christians to become Baptized.
    Goggin thinks that claiming to be a Christian makes him a Christian? What Christian does that on the 'net, of all places?
    16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved
    For one thing, Mark 16:16 cannot be safely quoted as Scripture. It is part of the Marcan Appendix, not found in the best and earliest manuscripts, and marked as suspect in others. It is unlikely to have been written by Mark, and may have been added specifically (and clumsily) by those who wanted to make baptism a 'work' just as circumcision had been for the Pharisaical 'believers' in Paul's Galatian church. Secondly, if Jesus actually said this, He may have referred to baptism as a form of witness (see my earlier post). This would be consonant with His statements in known Scripture. Thirdly, if Jesus actually said this, He may have referred to baptism in the Spirit, which is very likely in view of His other statements. If the Marcan Appendix is an attempt at works justification, it fails.
    27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
    Baptised in the Spirit, of course.There is no unequivocal command in Scripture for water baptism. Those who advocate it as command are either unspiritual and also badly misinformed, or are deservedly destined for the fire of hell.
    I point this out (about Baptism not being a prerequisite to salvation) not to teach that Baptism is optional, it is not optional!
    But n2thelight wrote:
    I feel that Baptism is not necessary
    So which is it to be, n2? Your 'feelings', or Goggin?
    Nick Goggin
    'Watch out for those dogs, those men who do evil, those mutilators of the flesh. For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh.' Phil 3:2-3 NIVCave canem.
     
Loading...