mailmandan
Well-Known Member
I enjoy Christian Chat, but of course, none of these Christian forum sites are perfect. I’m acquainted with the Reformers, but don’t particularly have a favorite.
Is baptismal regeneration biblical
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Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I got frustrated in another thread and it took control over my thoughts.
It took about a day to shake it off.
Sometimes dust sticks harder than clay.
It has a tendency to get inside your shoes, through the fabric of the sock and inbetween the toes.
I don't like carrying grudges, they get too heavy.
So I let go the burden and the sun came out.
And my feet are washed and my heart is merry.
Hugs
Sounds like a poem, good lines for a lyric.I got frustrated in another thread and it took control over my thoughts.
It took about a day to shake it off.
Sometimes dust sticks harder than clay.
It has a tendency to get inside your shoes, through the fabric of the sock and inbetween the toes.
I don't like carrying grudges, they get too heavy.
So I let go the burden and the sun came out.
And my feet are washed and my heart is merry.
Hugs
Stay strong in Christ Ziggy
Blessings
J.
Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining, since none are "perfect" even in their doctrines.
Shalom
J.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Baptism is for believers. One needs to be saved in order to be baptized. If baptism was essential for salvation, then no lost soul on their death bed could be saved!
It is essential for obedience.
Today we have lost the concept of the seriousness of baptism for the most part. Inn Israel especially, Baptism was a public declaration that one has opted to commit to a way of life or teacher or theology etc.etc. Baptism in this day could mean death! Today in teh western world, it is reduced to near ritual (and in many churches actual ritual because they baptize infants). We have lost teh commitmenty Baptism entails. It was a prclamation that one was dedicating their life unto who or what they were getting baptized to.
I have battled with many of my pastors ( semi successfully) to impart teh serrious commitment Baptism is.
One can be saved without Baptism. However, if after making a proffession, one refuses to be baptized after being shown from the Scriptures, one would have to wonder if their proffession of faith was real! One who truly gets saved, will wish to be baptized.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Spirit baptism is essential
water baptism is not
Its sad, if they would have translated the word, and not transliterated it (making it a new english word) we would not be having these discussions.
water baptism is not
Its sad, if they would have translated the word, and not transliterated it (making it a new english word) we would not be having these discussions.
Like many Jewish things, water baptism is also brought into the new covenant with Gentiles, and like the rest, confusion results.
Much love!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I think John says it best..
John 1:29-32
32 And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. 33 I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”
βαπτίζω
baptizö
bap-tid'-zo
From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.
LXX related word(s)
H2881 taval
Thayer Definition:
1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one’s self, bathe
3) to overwhelm
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from a derivative of G911
More in NTW: G6122
baptó G911 [to dip]
baptizó G907 [to baptize]
baptismos G909 [baptizing]
baptisma G908 [baptism]
baptistés G910 [Baptist, Baptizer]
A. The Meaning of bapto and baptizo. bapto, "to dip in or under," "to dye," "to immerse," "to sink," "to drown," "to bathe," "wash." The NT uses bapto only in the literal sense, e.g., "to dip" (Luk_16:24), "to dye" (Rev_19:13), and baptizo only in a cultic sense, mostly "to baptize."
B. Religious Washings in Hellenism.
1. The General Facts. Sacral baths are found in the Eleusinian cults, in Egyptian religion, in Isis worship, and in the mysteries. Baptisms of blood are post-Christian.
2. baptizein in Sacral and Similar Contexts. This usage is rare; it may be found in some papyri, Plutarch, and the Hermetic writings, but not in any technical sense.
3. The Meaning of the Rites. One underlying theme is that of washing and cleansing. Various liquids, including water, may be used to wash away uncleanness before God. Water, however, gives life, and hence another theme is vivification by way of symbolic drowning, e.g., in the Nile; the drowning connects one who drowns with the god and thus confers divinity. Yet the idea of purification is predominant, though this is cultic, not moral, and thus comes under criticism, e.g., from Plato, Philo, and Josephus. It must be stressed, of course, that the term baptizein itself has no great cultic significance.
C. baptizein in the OT and Judaism. In the LXX baptein (baptizein occurs only in 2Ki 5:14) is used for "to dip" in Jdg_2:14; Joh_3:15; Lev_4:6; Lev_11:32. Naaman's baptizein becomes a technical term for lustrations (cf. Jdt_12:7). It then comes to be used for the washing of proselytes, though it is hard to say when this practice originated; it seems intrinsically unlikely that it would have started after Christian baptism. Like other lustrations it is a continuation of the OT rites of purification, which are cultic but not magical, having the legal goal of ritual purity. A proselyte is put in a new position and from this point must keep the law. There is no thought here of death and regeneration, and the Hebrew term ʽtbl) behind baptizein does not signify sinking, drowning, or perishing.
D. The Baptism of John. This baptism (Mar_1:4 ff.; Joh_1:25 ff.; Act_1:5; Act_11:16, etc .) is a powerful messianic awakening from which Christianity springs. As presented in the Gospels it does not seem to be a child of Near Eastern syncretism. The nearest analogies are in Judaism, especially proselyte baptism. Like this, John's baptism makes great demands on the elect people. Unlike it, it has a more urgent ethical and eschatological thrust. John is preparing the people for God's imminent coming. His baptism is an initiatory rite for the gathering of the messianic community. He himself actively baptizes, so that the passive use of baptizein now becomes more common than the middle found elsewhere. Cleansing, connected with repentance, is the main point, with a suggestion of purification for the coming aeon. The contrast with the baptism of the Spirit and fire shows that there is at least some influence of the idea of life-giving inundation, but the eschatological dimension rules out individualistic death and regeneration.
E. Christian Baptism.
1. Jesus lets himself be baptized but does not himself baptize (cf. Joh_3:22; Joh_4:2). The sinlessness of Jesus does not exclude his baptism (Mat_3:14-15) since his concept of messiahship includes identification with sinners (cf. Joh_1:29). If Jesus does not personally baptize, he endorses John's baptism (Mar_11:30) but with a focus on his own death as a "being baptized" (Mar_10:38-39) (cf. the OT figure in Psa_42:7; Psa_69:1; Isa_43:2; Ca. 8:7).
2. Christian baptism is practiced from the very first (Act_2:38 ff.). This is not just because John's disciples come into the church. It plainly rests on a command of the risen Lord irrespective of critical objections to Mat_28:18; Mat_28:20.
3. Syntactically baptizein is linked with baptisma in Act_19:4. The means is expressed by the dative (Mar_1:8 : water; Mar_1:8 : the Holy Spirit, or en, "in" (Mat_3:11 etc.), and once eis (Mar_1:9). The goal is normally expressed by eis, "unto" (i.e., "for") or "into," as in Mat_3:11; Gal_3:27, etc. "Into" Christ, or the triune name, is not mystical but has a more legal flavor (cf. the commercial use of "in the name" for "to the account" and the invocation and confession of Christ's name in baptism [Act_22:16; cf. Act_19:3]).
4. The Saving Significance of Baptism into Christ. The goal of baptism is eternal life, but not primarily by way of vivification. In spite of 1Pe_3:20-21; Joh_3:5-6; Tit_3:5, the thought of the cleansing bath is more fundamental (1Co_6:11; Eph_5:26; Heb_10:22). Biblical piety rules out magical evaluations of 44religious objects and actions. Hence baptism has no purely external efficacy and in itself is unimportant (1Co_1:17; Heb_9:9-10; 1Pe_3:21). As the action of God or Christ, it derives its force from God's reconciling work or Christ's atoning death (1Co_6:11; Eph_5:25-26; Tit_3:4-5). It places us objectively in Christ and removes us from the sphere of death (Adam). Imputed righteousness impels us to ethical renewal, for forensic justification (in Paul) leads on to spiritual fellowship with Christ; only a distinction of thought, but no real leap or transition is demanded. Baptism is participation in Christ's death and resurrection which effects a transition to the new creation, though translation into the reality of the present aeon is still a task. Paul may well have taken over the current terminology of the mysteries here, but the content, i.e., the historical relationship, the eschatological new creation, and non-mystical justification, is different. With Christ's death, baptism has a once-for-all character. What we have is more a Christ metaphysics than a Christ mysticism, and if there are spiritual connections there is no magical transformation of human nature. 1Co_10:1 ff. combats a materialistic (as distinct from an objective) view, and while 1Co_15:29 seems to suggest a baptism for the dead, this is probably a tactical argument, or even an allusion to some non-Christian practice in the mysteries. The close connection with Christ's death and resurrection is mostly found in Paul, but the connection with the gift of the Spirit is common to Christian thinking. The Spirit may be given prior to baptism (Act_10:44-45), but more often at or after baptism. The link with forgiveness and the ethical element remain, as in John's relating of baptism to regeneration (Joh_3:5; cf. Tit_3:5), since this still stresses faith and retains the connection with salvation history. Infant baptism, which cannot be supported from NT examples, makes sense within this objective interpretation but represents a departure from apostolic Christianity when linked with the later hyperphysical rather than eschatological-christological views.
F. Baptism as a Syncretistic Mystery. After NT days the eschatological context ceased to be a leaven and was treated as an appendage. In consequence baptism tended to become a syncretistic mystery with a primary stress on the matter (Ignatius, Barnabas, Tertullian), the rite (Didache, Hermas), the institutional ministry (Ignatius, Tertullian), the timing (either postponement or in earliest infancy), and the question of second repentance for serious postbaptismal sin.
baptisms, baptisma. "Immersion" or "baptism"; baptismos denotes only the act, baptisma (not found outside the NT) the institution. baptismoi in Mar_7:4 are Levitical purifications and in Heb_6:2 all kinds of lustrations. baptisma is the specific term for John's baptism (Mat_3:7; Mar_11:30; Luk_7:29; Act_1:22; Act_10:37), which is a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins (Mar_1:4); it is also a term for Christian baptism, which is connected with Christ's death in Rom_6:4 and with the atonement in 1Pe_3:21, and is a basis of unity in Eph_4:5. Christ's death is itself his baptisma in Mar_10:38-39; Luk_12:50. As a special term, perhaps coined in the NT, baptisma shows us that Christian baptism is regarded as new and unique.
baptisms. The nickname for John in Mat_3:1; Mar_6:25; Luk_7:20, etc., apparently coined for him, and thus showing that his appearing as the messianic precursor was unique, a baptizer being indispensable for a baptism to which the word gives its content. (Josephus uses the term for John; the mysteries speak of baptisms by gods and priests, but rabbinic disciples at proselyte baptisms are only witnesses.)
[A. OEPKE]
ἐβαπτίζοντο
Part of Speech: Verb
Tense: Imperfect<..which means continuously
Voice: Passive
Mood: Indicative
Person: third [they]
Number: Plural
Matthew 3:6
Were baptized (ἐβαπτίζοντο)
See on Mar_7:4.
Confessing their sins (ἐξομολογούμενοι τὰς ἁμαρτίας αὐτῶν)
The words imply: 1. That confession was connected with baptism. They were baptized while in the act of confessing. 2. An open confession, not a private one to John (ἐξ, compare Act_19:18; Jas_5:16). 3. An individual confession; possibly a specific one. (See Luk_3:10-15.)
Shalom
Eph 3:16 That Hashem may grant you according to the osher of His kavod to become mightily empowered through His Ruach Hakodesh in the inner man;
Eph 3:17 So that Moshiach may make His maon (dwelling place, permanent residence, home) in your levavot through emunah, being rooted and grounded in ahavah,
Eph 3:18 That you may be able to have binah, together with all the Kadoshim, what is the breadth and length and height and depth [IYOV 11:8,9; TEHILLIM 103:11]
Eph 3:19 And to have da'as of the ahavah of Moshiach, which ahavah surpasses da'as, in order that you may be filled to all the melo (plentitude) of Hashem.
OJB
For your encouragement and participation
Blessings
J.
BAPTISM. The application of water as a rite of purification or initiation; a Christian
sacrament. See Sacraments.
The word baptism is the English form of the Gk. baptismos. The verb from which
this noun is derived—baptizo—is held by some scholars to mean “to dip, immerse.”
But this meaning is held by others to be not the most exact or common but rather a
meaning that is secondary or derived. By the latter it is claimed that all the term
necessarily implies is that the element employed in baptism is in close contact with
the person or object baptized. The Gk. prepositions en and eis have played a
prominent part in discussions respecting the mode of baptism.
The scope of this article is limited mainly to Christian baptism, but as preliminary
to this brief mention is made of Jewish baptism, John’s baptism, the baptism of Jesus,
and the baptism of Christ’s disciples:
Jewish Baptism. Baptisms, or ceremonial purifications, were common among the
Jews. Not only priests and other persons but also clothing, utensils, and articles of
furniture were thus ceremonially cleansed (Lev. 8:6; Ex. 19:10–14; Mark 7:3–4; Heb.
9:10).
John’s Baptism. The baptism of John was not Christian, but Jewish. It was,
however, especially a baptism “for repentance.” The only faith that it expressed concerning Christ was that His coming was close at hand. Those who confessed and
repented of their sins and were baptized by John were thus obedient to his call to
“make ready the way of the Lord” (Matt. 3:3).
Because the disciples Paul met at Ephesus (Acts 19:1–7) were “acquainted only
with the baptism of John” (18:25), i.e., were ignorant of the Christian message and the
baptism of the Holy Spirit, save as a prophesied event (19:4), they did not “receive the
Holy Spirit, when [they] believed” (19:2). They had heard only John’s message and
received only John’s baptism, which were introductory and merely preparatory. Faith
in them could not bring the free gift of the Holy Spirit. The moment they heard and
believed the new message of a crucified, risen, and ascended Savior, they received the
blessing of that message—the gift of the Holy Spirit, which included His baptizing
ministry.
Baptism of Jesus. The baptism that Jesus received from John was unique in its
significance and purpose. It could not be like that which John administered to others,
for Jesus did not make confession; He had no occasion to repent. Neither was it
Christian baptism, the significance of which we shall consider later. Jesus Himself
declared the main purpose and meaning of this event in His words “It is fitting for us
to fulfill all righteousness” (Matt. 3:15). It was an act of ceremonial righteousness
appropriate to His public entrance upon His mission as the Christ, which included His
threefold office of Prophet, Priest, and King, especially the second, for the essence of
His redemptive work lies in His consecration as a Priest, the Great High Priest. In this
office He offered not “the blood of goats and bulls,” but Himself to put away sin
(Heb. 9:13–26). It is this consecration to His redemptive priesthood that comes into
clearest view in His baptism in the Jordan. By “fulfilling all righteousness” our Lord
meant the righteousness of obedience to the Mosaic law. The Levitical law required
all priests to be consecrated when they began to be about thirty years of age (Num.
4:3; Luke 3:23). The consecration was twofold—first the washing (baptism), then the
anointing (Ex. 29:4–7; Lev. 8:6–36). When John on the Jordan’s bank “washed”
(baptized) Jesus, the heavens were opened, and the Holy Spirit came upon Him. This
was the priestly anointing of Him who was not only a Priest by divine appointment
but an eternal Priest (Ps. 110:4) who was thus divinely consecrated for the work of
redemption (Matt. 3:16; Acts 4:27; 10:38).
Baptism of Christ’s Disciples.(John 4:1–2). The office of Christ was
and is to baptize with the Holy Spirit. His disciples administered the symbolical
baptism, He that which is real (Matt. 3:11).
Christian Baptism. This may be considered under two heads: Baptist and non
Baptist views.
Baptist Views. Christian baptism is the immersion of a believer in water as a sign
of his previous entrance into the communion of Christ’s death, burial, and
resurrection. In other words, baptism is a token of the (already) regenerated soul’s union with
Christ.
Obligation. Baptism is an ordinance instituted by Christ (Matt. 28:19; Mark
16:16), practiced by the apostles (Acts 2:38), submitted to by members of NT
churches (Rom. 6:3–5; Col. 2:11–12), and subsequently practiced as a rite in Christian
churches. No church hierarchy has the right to modify or dispense with this command
of Christ because only the local church (no other visible church of Christ) is known in
the NT, and it is purely an executive, not a legislative body. Significance. Symbolizing regeneration through union with Christ, baptism
portrays not only Christ’s death and resurrection and their purpose in atoning for sin
in delivering sinners from sin’s penalty and power, but also betokens the
accomplishment of that purpose in the person baptized (Rom. 6:3–5; Gal. 3:27; Col.
3:3). By that external rite the believer professes his death to sin and resurrection to
spiritual life. He also gives witness to the method by which God’s purpose has been
wrought for him, namely, by union with Christ. The rite sets forth the fact that the
believer has received Christ and in faith given himself to Him (Rom. 6:5; Col. 2:12).
Proper Subjects of Baptism. Only those who give credible evidence of
regeneration, and who thus by faith have entered into the communion of Christ’s
death and resurrection, are considered proper candidates for the rite. Biblical authority
for this view is given in the command of Christ that those are to be baptized who have
previously been made disciples (Matt. 28:19; Acts 2:41), or previously repented and
believed (2:37–38; 8:12; 18:8). It is also proved from the nature of the church as a
company of regenerated believers (John 3:5; Rom. 6:13) and the symbolism of the
ordinance itself (Acts 10:47; Rom. 6:2–5; Gal. 3:26–27). Since it is intended only for
the regenerate, baptism can never be the means of regeneration. It is the appointed
sign, but never the condition, of forgiveness of sins.
Mode. This is immersion only as confirmed from the meaning of the original Gk.
word baptizo in Greek writers and church Fathers, and in the NT. Immersion was a
doctrine and practice of the Greek church.
Administration. Many Baptists, and others practicing believer’s baptism, require
the rite to be performed properly as a prerequisite to membership in the local church
and participation in the Lord’s Supper.
Non-Baptist Views. The views of other Christian groups on the subject of baptism
vary from those like most Quakers, who deny the present-day validity of the rite at all,
to Roman Catholics and others who attach to it regenerating efficacy.
Obligation. Most Christians believe that the rite, in one form or another, for one
purpose or another, is permanently obligatory and rests upon Christ’s command
(Matt. 28:19) and the practice of the early church.
Significance. The Roman Catholic and the Greek Orthodox churches, most
Lutheran bodies, and many in the Church of England and the Protestant Episcopal
church hold that baptism is the direct instrument of regeneration. Roman Catholics
subscribe so strongly to this view that, accordingly, they also hold that all adults or
infants who die unbaptized are excluded from heaven. Many evangelical churches
believe that baptism is not only the rite of initiation into the church of Christ but a
sign and seal of divine grace symbolizing spiritual cleansing or purification (Acts
22:16; Rom. 6:4–11; Titus 3:5). For example, the Westminster Confession, art. 28,
says: “Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ, not
only for the solemn admission of the party baptized into the visible Church, but also
to be unto him a sign and seal of the covenant of grace of his ingrafting into Christ, of
regeneration, of remission of sins, and of his giving up unto God through Jesus Christ,
to walk in newness of life; which sacrament is, by Christ’s own appointment, to be
continued in His Church until the end of the world.” As circumcision was the sign and
seal of the Abrahamic covenant and practiced under the Mosaic covenant, so baptism
is construed as the sign and seal of the New Covenant of the gospel. Baptism, under
the new economy, takes the place of circumcision under the old (Col. 2:10–12).
Proper Subjects of Baptism. In contrast to those holding Baptist views that
exclude all except adult believers from the rite, many believe it should be
administered to children who have believing parents or sponsors to care for their Christian nurture. This is contended to be scriptural since Paul expressly teaches that
believers in Christ are under the gracious provisions of the covenant that God made
with Abraham (Gal. 3:15–29). Under the Abrahamic covenant circumcision was
administered to children as a sign of their participation in the relation in which their
parents stood to God. It is contended that children of Christian parentage have a
similar right to the ordinance, which is construed as having replaced circumcision.
Mode. Non-Baptists deny that immersion is the only valid mode of baptism and
admit sprinkling, pouring, and immersion as legitimate. All that is held essential is the
application of water “in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy
Ghost.”
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Jhn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Jhn 1:30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
Jhn 1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
Jhn 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
Jhn 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Jhn 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
Jhn 5:2 Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.
Jhn 5:3 In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.
Jhn 5:4 For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.
Isa 4:3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
Isa 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Who sent John to baptize?
Hugs
Jhn 1:30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
Jhn 1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
Jhn 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
Jhn 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Jhn 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
Jhn 5:2 Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.
Jhn 5:3 In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.
Jhn 5:4 For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.
Isa 4:3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
Isa 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Who sent John to baptize?
Hugs
Yochanan's baptism was from Heaven Ziggy.
1Pe 3:20 Which sometim
e were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
@Ziggy how do you understand 1 Pet 3:21?
Doth now save you (humas nun sōzei). Simplex verb (sōzō, not the compound diasōzō). The saving by baptism which Peter here mentions is only symbolic (a metaphor or picture as in Rom_6:2-6), not actual as Peter hastens to explain.
Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh (ou sarkos apothesis rupou). Apothesis is old word from apotithēmi (1Pe_2:1), in N.T. only here and 2Pe_1:14. Rupou (genitive of rupos) is old word (cf. ruparos, filthy, in Jas_2:2; Rev_22:11), here only in N.T. (cf. Isa_3:3; Isa_4:4). Baptism, Peter explains, does not wash away the filth of the flesh either in a literal sense, as a bath for the body, or in a metaphorical sense of the filth of the soul. No ceremonies really affect the conscience (Heb_9:13.). Peter here expressly denies baptismal remission of sin.
But the interrogation of a good conscience toward God (alla suneidēseōs agathēs eperōtēma eis theon). Old word from eperōtaō (to question as in Mar_9:32; Mat_16:1), here only in N.T. In ancient Greek it never means answer, but only inquiry. The inscriptions of the age of the Antonines use it of the Senate’s approval after inquiry. That may be the sense here, that is, avowal of consecration to God after inquiry, having repented and turned to God and now making this public proclamation of that fact by means of baptism (the symbol of the previous inward change of heart). Thus taken, it matters little whether eis theon (toward God) be taken with eperōtēma or suneidēseōs.
Through the resurrection of Jesus Christ (di' anastaseōs Iēsou Christou). For baptism is a symbolic picture of the resurrection of Christ as well as of our own spiritual renewal (Rom_6:2-6). See 1Pe_1:3 for regeneration made possible by the resurrection of Jesus.
Robertson.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I see it as a fulfilment of prophecy.
Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
A lot of people read the prophets as literal, I read them as spiritual.
And everything in the NT was already prophesied in the OT.
So if it's in the new it needs to be in the old in one form or another.
I went looking through Leviticus for sheep being washed before they were sacrificed. I haven't found it.. yet.
But there are a lot of sheep in the OT being watered at the well.
Until I came to Isaiah chapter 4.
John's baptism is from heaven, and it should be found in scripture. And I found an "angel" at the pool healing the sick.
And John came baptizing so that he would be manifested.
Who is the angel of the Lord in the OT? Who is the angel that troubles the water?
Gen 22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
Exo 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Psa 34:7 The angel of the LORD encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them.
Hugs
explain Jn 3:22 they immediately went preaching the word, accept Christ etc.
NO! NO! NO!
the went to the river and baptized!!!
faith alone is impossible according to rom 13:11
A sacrament is an outward sign
Which is a gift from God to help our little minds see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!
As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!
without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!
Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!
Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!
They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “
They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22
A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!
Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.
Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.
1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.
Baptism!
God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!
Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38
Born again! Born from above!
'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,
Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.
St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13
Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!
Effects of baptism!
Faith and baptism accomplish justification
With these effects:
born again Jn 3:5
New creation in Christ 2 cor 5:17
Passed from death to life 2 Tim 1:10
Out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light 1 pet 2:9
All sins (original and personal) washed away acts 22:16
Washed in Christ’s blood 1 pet 1:2
Member of Christ and His church
1 cor 12:13
Put on Christ gal 3:27
Died with Christ rom 6:3
Risen with Christ col 2:12
Sealed by God in the ark of salvation 1 pet 3:20-21
Sealed with the Holy Spirit eph 1:13
And none by “faith alone”!
Faith alone apart from the sacraments
Questions
where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?
1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?
Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?
Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is not found in scripture?
They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???
When we first believed we are saved?
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Christian ritual of baptism:
Immersion, sprinkling, pour pure water over the forehead three time with the words, I baptize thee in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Spirit! Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 Acts 2:38-39 Acts 8:36-38 Acts 22:16
1 Pet 3:21
Proper intention: to make a new creature in Christ, to put on Christ, initiation into the new covenant of grace
Proper Matter: pure water
Proper Form: the words: father, son, and Holy Spirit
Justified by faith includes baptism Mk 16:16 acts 2:38-39 acts 8:36-38 1 pet 3:20-21
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”
John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)
John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)
John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)
John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)
John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.
Born again means Baptismal regeneration!
baptismal regeneration!
A new creation in Christ! 2 cor 5:17
Jn 1 JTB prepared the way by baptism!
Jn 2 the waters of purification are OT prefigurement of baptism!
Jn 3:5 born again means baptism
Jn 3:22 they immediately went to the river! Not to preach “accept Christ as personal lord and savior”
But to BAPTIZE!!!
Which is a gift from God to help our little minds see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!
As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!
without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!
Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!
Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!
They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “
They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22
A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!
Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.
Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.
1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.
Baptism!
God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!
Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38
Born again! Born from above!
'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,
Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.
St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13
Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!
Effects of baptism!
Faith and baptism accomplish justification
With these effects:
born again Jn 3:5
New creation in Christ 2 cor 5:17
Passed from death to life 2 Tim 1:10
Out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light 1 pet 2:9
All sins (original and personal) washed away acts 22:16
Washed in Christ’s blood 1 pet 1:2
Member of Christ and His church
1 cor 12:13
Put on Christ gal 3:27
Died with Christ rom 6:3
Risen with Christ col 2:12
Sealed by God in the ark of salvation 1 pet 3:20-21
Sealed with the Holy Spirit eph 1:13
And none by “faith alone”!
Faith alone apart from the sacraments
Questions
where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?
1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?
Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?
Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is not found in scripture?
They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???
When we first believed we are saved?
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Christian ritual of baptism:
Immersion, sprinkling, pour pure water over the forehead three time with the words, I baptize thee in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Spirit! Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 Acts 2:38-39 Acts 8:36-38 Acts 22:16
1 Pet 3:21
Proper intention: to make a new creature in Christ, to put on Christ, initiation into the new covenant of grace
Proper Matter: pure water
Proper Form: the words: father, son, and Holy Spirit
Justified by faith includes baptism Mk 16:16 acts 2:38-39 acts 8:36-38 1 pet 3:20-21
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”
John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)
John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)
John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)
John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)
John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.
Born again means Baptismal regeneration!
baptismal regeneration!
A new creation in Christ! 2 cor 5:17
Jn 1 JTB prepared the way by baptism!
Jn 2 the waters of purification are OT prefigurement of baptism!
Jn 3:5 born again means baptism
Jn 3:22 they immediately went to the river! Not to preach “accept Christ as personal lord and savior”
But to BAPTIZE!!!
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