Is baptismal regeneration biblical

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Johann

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That baptism is in no wise essential to salvation, that it does not form one of the conditions which God requires the sinner to meet, is clear from many considerations.

First, if baptism be necessary to salvation then no one was saved before the days of John the Baptist, for the Old Testament will be searched from beginning to end without finding a single mention of "baptism."

God, who changes not, has had but one way of salvation since Adam and Eve became sinners in Eden, and if baptism is an indispensable prerequisite to the forgiveness of sins, then all who died from Abel to the time of Christ are eternally lost. But this is absurd. The Old Testament Scriptures plainly teach otherwise.

In the second place, if baptism be necessary to salvation, then every professing believer who has died during this present dispensation is eternally lost, if he died without being baptized. And this would shut heaven’s door upon the repentant thief, as well as all the Quakers and members of the Salvation Army, the vast majority of whom have never been baptized. But this is equally unthinkable.

In the third place, if baptism be necessary to salvation, then we must utterly ignore every passage in God’s Word which teaches that salvation is by grace and not of works, that it is a free gift and not bought by anything the sinner does. If baptism be essential to salvation, it is passing strange that Christ Himself never baptized any one (see John 4:2), for He came to "save his people from their sins."

If baptism be essential to salvation, it is passing strange that the apostle Paul when asked point blank by the Philippian jailer, "What must I do to be saved?" answered by saying, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved."

Finally, if baptism be essential to salvation, it is passing strange the apostle Paul should have written to the Corinthians, "I thank God I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius" (1 Cor. 1:14).
If then the words of Christ "born of water" have no reference to the waters of baptism, what do they signify?

Before replying directly to this question, we must observe how the word "water" is used in other passages in this Gospel. To the woman at the well Christ said, "Whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life" (John 4:14).

Was this literal "water?"

One has but to ask the question to answer it. Clearly, "water" is here used emblematically.

Again, in John 7:37, 38 we are told, "In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."

Here, too, the word "water" is not to be understood literally, but emblematically. These passages in John’s Gospel are sufficient to warrant us in giving the word "water" in John 3:5 a figurative meaning.
If then the Lord Jesus used the word "water" emblematically in John 3:5, to what was He referring? We answer, The Word of God.

This is ever the instrument used by God in regeneration. In every other passage where the instrument of the new birth is described, it is always the Word of God that is mentioned. In Psalm 119:50 we read, "For Thy word hath quickened me." Again, in 1 Corinthians 4:15 we find the apostle saying, "I have begotten you through the gospel." Again, we are told "Of his own will begat he us with (what?—baptism? no but with) the word of truth" (James 1:18).

Peter declares, "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever" (1 Pet. 1:23).

The new birth, then, is by the Word of God, and one of the emblems of the Word is "water." God employs quite a number of emblems to describe the various characteristics and qualities of His Word. It is likened to a "lamp" (<19B9105>Psalm 119:105) because it illumines. It is likened unto a "hammer" (Jer. 23:29) because it breaks up the hard heart. It is likened unto "water" because it cleanses: see Psalm 119:9; John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26: "Born of water" means born of the cleansing and purifying Word of God.

3. The Producer of the new birth. "Born of water, and of the Spirit" (John 3:5). The Holy Spirit of God is the Begetter, the Word is the "seed" (1 John 3:9)

He uses. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh: and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6). And again, "It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing" (John 6:63). Nothing could be plainer. No sinner is quickened apart from the Word.


4. The imperative Necessity of the new birth. "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (John 3:5).

By his first birth man enters this world a sinful creature, and because of this he is estranged from the thrice Holy One. Of the unregenerate it is said, "Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart." Unspeakably solemn is this. When Adam and Eve fell they were banished from the Paradise, and each of their children were born outside of Eden. That sin shuts man out from the holy presence of God, was impressively taught to Israel. When Jehovah came down on Sinai to give the Law unto Moses (the mediator), the people were fenced off at the base of the Mount, and were not suffered to pass on pain of death. When Jehovah took up His abode in the midst of the chosen people, He made His dwelling place inside the holy of holies, which was curtained off, and none was allowed to pass through the veil save the high priest, and he but once a year as he entered with the blood of atonement. Man then is away from God. He is, in his natural condition, where the prodigal son was—in the far country, away from the father’s house—and except he be born again he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." This is not an arbitrary decree, but the enunciation of an abiding principle.

Heaven is a prepared place for a prepared people. And this is the very nature of the case. An unregenerate man who has no relish at all for spiritual things, who is bored by the conversation of believers, who finds the Bible dull and dry, who is a stranger to the throne of grace, would be wretched in heaven.

Such a man could not spend eternity in the presence of God. Suppose a fish were taken out of the water, and laid upon a salver of gold; suppose further that the sweetest of flowers surrounded it, and that the air was filled with their fragrance; suppose, too, that the strains of most melodious music fell upon its ears, would that fish be happy and contented? Of course not. And why not? Because it would be out of harmony with its environment; because it would be lacking in capacity to appreciate its surroundings. Thus would it be with an unregenerate soul in heaven.
Once more. The new birth is an imperative necessity because the natural man is altogether devoid of spiritual life. It is not that he is ignorant and needs instruction: it is not that he is feeble and needs invigorating: it is not that he is sickly and needs doctoring. His case is far, far worse. He is dead in trespasses and sins. This is no poetical figure of speech; it is a solemn reality, little as it is perceived by the majority of people. The sinner is spiritually lifeless and needs quickening. He is a spiritual corpse, and needs bringing from death unto life. He is a member of the old creation, which is under the curse of God, and unless he is made a new creation in Christ, he will lie under that curse to all eternity. What the natural man needs above everything else is life, Divine life; and as birth is the gateway to life, he must be born again, and except he be born again, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. This is final.

5. The Character of the new birth. But what is the new birth? Precisely what is it that differentiates a man who is dead in sins from one who has passed from death unto life? Upon this point there is much confusion and ignorance. Tell the average person that he must be born again and he thinks you mean that he must reform, mend his manner of life, turn over a new leaf. But reformation concerns only the outer life. And the trouble with man is within. Suppose the mainspring of my watch were broken, what good would it do if I put in a new crystal and polished the case until I could see my face in it? None at all, for the seat of the trouble is inside the watch. So it is with the sinner. Suppose that his deportment was irreproachable, that his moral character was stainless, that he had such control of his tongue that he never sinned with his lips, what would all this avail while he still had (as God says he has) a heart that is "deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked?" The new birth, then, is something more than reformation.
 

Andreas

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Acts2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you53 be immersed upon the name54 of Jesus Anointed55 for56 the release from sins, and you shall receive the gift of the holy Breath. 39 For the promise57 is to you, and to your children, and to all those unto afar, even as many as the Master our God should call.
53 Peter stressed that individual release from sins was necessary. It was not enough to rely on the prophecies of collective restoration of Israel. Jesus made the same point to Nicodemus (John 3:3,5). 54 ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματι – lit. “upon the name.” The preposition ἐπὶ with an object in the dative case implies “on the basis of.” From earliest times, immersion for the remission of sins was administered contingent upon the candidate’s “good confession” that “Jesus is the Anointed one, the Son of God.” This was itself an affirmation that Jesus was the subject of Psalm 2, the one who had been literally “begotten” out of God Himself (Psalm 2:7; John 8:42), yet was also the “Anointed King” (Psalm 2:2,6,8-9) of David’s seed who would sit upon David’s Throne and reign forever (Isa. 9:6-7). This “good confession” and its corresponding immersion in water was the “rock” upon which Jesus would build His universal assembly (Matt. 16:16-18; Acts 8:36-38; 1 Tim. 6:12). 55 There is no example, acknowledgement, or hint of the alleged Trinitarian baptismal formula ever being used in the New Testament. All of the baptisms recorded were upon the name of Jesus alone (Acts 8:16; Acts 10:48; Acts 19:5; Acts 22:16). The baptismal confession was exclusively that “Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.” Paul’s works also attribute water baptism to be joining with the death and resurrection of Jesus alone (Rom. 6:3-9) and being placed in the “Body of Christ” (1 Cor. 12:12-13). See note on Matt. 28:19. 56 The preposition εἰς points to reaching a goal, result, or destination. It is never looks backwards, as some have mistakenly claimed. It’s object is the intended result, in this case “the release of sins.” That this release from sins is the immediate result of one’s immersion is also taught in Mark 16:16; Luke 3:3; John 3:5; Acts 22:16; Rom. 6:2-8; Eph. 5:26; Titus 3:5. That salvation always follows immersion is also proven by the grammar of Mark 16:16. 57 That is the promise quoted from Joel 2 in vss. 17-21, which in context refers to God’s Breath being poured out upon “all flesh” in the Kingdom. The promise of Joel’s prophecy is therefore resurrection to an inheritance in the Kingdom.

1 Corinth 1:14-17 I thank God that I immersed none of you except Crispus and Gaius 15 so that no one may say that I immersed into my [own] name! 16 (Yet I immersed also the house of Stephanas. I have not perceived the rest if I immersed any other). 17 For the Anointed did not commission me to immerse20

***20 Some use this statement to deny the importance of immersion and its connection with conversion, claiming it is optional. However, Paul was not arguing that only a few Corinthians had been immersed, but that only a few of them had been immersed by him personally. It was not the normal practice of these evangelistic teams for the one preaching the message to also do the baptizing. That was usually left to the evangelist’s assistants, following Jesus’ example (John 3:22-26; John 4:1-2).
 

Johann

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Acts2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you53 be immersed upon the name54 of Jesus Anointed55 for56 the release from sins, and you shall receive the gift of the holy Breath. 39 For the promise57 is to you, and to your children, and to all those unto afar, even as many as the Master our God should call.
53 Peter stressed that individual release from sins was necessary. It was not enough to rely on the prophecies of collective restoration of Israel. Jesus made the same point to Nicodemus (John 3:3,5). 54 ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματι – lit. “upon the name.” The preposition ἐπὶ with an object in the dative case implies “on the basis of.” From earliest times, immersion for the remission of sins was administered contingent upon the candidate’s “good confession” that “Jesus is the Anointed one, the Son of God.” This was itself an affirmation that Jesus was the subject of Psalm 2, the one who had been literally “begotten” out of God Himself (Psalm 2:7; John 8:42), yet was also the “Anointed King” (Psalm 2:2,6,8-9) of David’s seed who would sit upon David’s Throne and reign forever (Isa. 9:6-7). This “good confession” and its corresponding immersion in water was the “rock” upon which Jesus would build His universal assembly (Matt. 16:16-18; Acts 8:36-38; 1 Tim. 6:12). 55 There is no example, acknowledgement, or hint of the alleged Trinitarian baptismal formula ever being used in the New Testament. All of the baptisms recorded were upon the name of Jesus alone (Acts 8:16; Acts 10:48; Acts 19:5; Acts 22:16). The baptismal confession was exclusively that “Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.” Paul’s works also attribute water baptism to be joining with the death and resurrection of Jesus alone (Rom. 6:3-9) and being placed in the “Body of Christ” (1 Cor. 12:12-13). See note on Matt. 28:19. 56 The preposition εἰς points to reaching a goal, result, or destination. It is never looks backwards, as some have mistakenly claimed. It’s object is the intended result, in this case “the release of sins.” That this release from sins is the immediate result of one’s immersion is also taught in Mark 16:16; Luke 3:3; John 3:5; Acts 22:16; Rom. 6:2-8; Eph. 5:26; Titus 3:5. That salvation always follows immersion is also proven by the grammar of Mark 16:16. 57 That is the promise quoted from Joel 2 in vss. 17-21, which in context refers to God’s Breath being poured out upon “all flesh” in the Kingdom. The promise of Joel’s prophecy is therefore resurrection to an inheritance in the Kingdom.

1 Corinth 1:14-17 I thank God that I immersed none of you except Crispus and Gaius 15 so that no one may say that I immersed into my [own] name! 16 (Yet I immersed also the house of Stephanas. I have not perceived the rest if I immersed any other). 17 For the Anointed did not commission me to immerse20

***20 Some use this statement to deny the importance of immersion and its connection with conversion, claiming it is optional. However, Paul was not arguing that only a few Corinthians had been immersed, but that only a few of them had been immersed by him personally. It was not the normal practice of these evangelistic teams for the one preaching the message to also do the baptizing. That was usually left to the evangelist’s assistants, following Jesus’ example (John 3:22-26; John 4:1-2).
"The Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John" (John 1:1). It is important to observe the order of the two verbs here for they tell us who, alone, are eligible for baptism. When two verbs are linked together thus, the first denotes the action, and the second how the action was performed. For example; suppose I said, "He poured oil on him and anointed him." You could not say, "He anointed him and poured oil on him," unless the anointing and the pouring were two different acts. Therefore, the fact that "baptizing" here comes after, and not before, the verb "made," proves that they were disciples first, and were "baptized" subsequently.

It is one of many passages in the New Testament which, uniformly, teaches that only one who is already a believer in Christ is qualified for baptism.
"Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples" (John 1:2). This is but a parenthetical statement, nevertheless, it is of considerable importance. It has been well said by the late Bishop Ryle, "This verse intimates that baptism is neither the first nor the chief thing about Christianity. We frequently read of Christ preaching and praying, once of His administering the Lord’s Supper, but ‘baptize’ He did not—as though to show us that baptism has nothing to do with salvation."
 

mailmandan

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In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ implied in genuine repentance (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*
 
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Johann

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In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ implied in genuine repentance (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*
So what is the purpose of water baptism since there is no saving efficacy in it?
Blessings
J.
 

mailmandan

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Baptism is a symbol of salvation in that it pictures Christ's death, burial and resurrection and our identification with Him in these experiences. In reality, believers are literally saved by what baptism symbolizes--Christ's death, burial and resurrection. Salvation is signified, but not procured in the waters of baptism.

A man and a woman become united through their wedding vows and the ring symbolizes this. Just as we become united with Christ through faith and water baptism symbolizes this. Strictly speaking, the husband is united to his wife because of the marriage vows rather than the ring. Yet since the latter is the sign of their union, it is natural to speak of the ring to mean the reality it represents. "With this ring, I thee wed," although the ring is not the actual cause of the change in the marital status, just like water baptism is not the actual cause of our salvation status.

Baptism would have no meaning without Christ’s death, burial and resurrection, but Christ’s death, burial and resurrection would still have meaning, even if there were no baptism. In other words, Christ’s death, burial and resurrection is the substance and baptism is the sign/symbol/picture. Without the substance there would be no sign/symbol/picture.
 

Johann

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Baptism is a symbol of salvation in that it pictures Christ's death, burial and resurrection and our identification with Him in these experiences. In reality, believers are literally saved by what baptism symbolizes--Christ's death, burial and resurrection. Salvation is signified, but not procured in the waters of baptism.

A man and a woman become united through their wedding vows and the ring symbolizes this. Just as we become united with Christ through faith and water baptism symbolizes this. Strictly speaking, the husband is united to his wife because of the marriage vows rather than the ring. Yet since the latter is the sign of their union, it is natural to speak of the ring to mean the reality it represents. "With this ring, I thee wed," although the ring is not the actual cause of the change in the marital status, just like water baptism is not the actual cause of our salvation status.

Baptism would have no meaning without Christ’s death, burial and resurrection, but Christ’s death, burial and resurrection would still have meaning, even if there were no baptism. In other words, Christ’s death, burial and resurrection is the substance and baptism is the sign/symbol/picture. Without the substance there would be no sign/symbol/picture.
Nicely done..what resource are you using?
Blessings
J.
 

Ziggy

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Mat 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
Mat 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

John was an Ambassador for Christ. He came by way of the word of the Lord.
And the people heard, and were pricked in their heart (the circumcision of the heart)
And they came to be baptised (washed by the word) that John spoke.

And just as cicumcisioin is an outward testimony of one's faith in the flesh.
So is water baptism also an outward testimony of one's being cleansed outwardly in the flesh.

These are works of the flesh. These won't save you. They are works of the law.
Only the circumcision of the heart and being washed by the word of God, which God performs inside a man, can save.

But before Jesus was made known, they were under the law. The law of righteousness of the flesh.
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

But after that Jesus was made known, and the law having been abolished in his flesh. The gift of righteousness appeared by the Spirit through His Name.
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.

Circumcision and water Baptism are a testimony to the world in the flesh.
The operations God performs are testified of in the spirit.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1Jo 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

Not just the hearers of the word (water) but the doers of the word (blood) are justified.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Love is the Key.

Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word (circumcise your hearts), and not hearers only (Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? ) , deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

One must be cicumcised in the heart and washed in the word.
And circumcision requires a doing.
That doing, is casting off the old man and his sinful ways and walking in newness of life by the washing and regeneration of the word.

Jesus was both circumcised and baptised in the flesh under the law.
He came to circumcise and baptise us in the spirit by grace through faith.
And in Truth.
Hugs
 

Johann

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Mat 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
Mat 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

John was an Ambassador for Christ. He came by way of the word of the Lord.
And the people heard, and were pricked in their heart (the circumcision of the heart)
And they came to be baptised (washed by the word) that John spoke.

And just as cicumcisioin is an outward testimony of one's faith in the flesh.
So is water baptism also an outward testimony of one's being cleansed outwardly in the flesh.

These are works of the flesh. These won't save you. They are works of the law.
Only the circumcision of the heart and being washed by the word of God, which God performs inside a man, can save.

But before Jesus was made known, they were under the law. The law of righteousness of the flesh.
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

But after that Jesus was made known, and the law having been abolished in his flesh. The gift of righteousness appeared by the Spirit through His Name.
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.

Circumcision and water Baptism are a testimony to the world in the flesh.
The operations God performs are testified of in the spirit.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1Jo 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

Not just the hearers of the word (water) but the doers of the word (blood) are justified.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Love is the Key.

Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word (circumcise your hearts), and not hearers only (Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? ) , deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

One must be cicumcised in the heart and washed in the word.
And circumcision requires a doing.
That doing, is casting off the old man and his sinful ways and walking in newness of life by the washing and regeneration of the word.

Jesus was both circumcised and baptised in the flesh under the law.
He came to circumcise and baptise us in the spirit by grace through faith.
And in Truth.
Hugs
Nicely done Ziggy
Long time no hear? Lol!
Blessings
J.
 
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Ziggy

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Nicely done Ziggy
Long time no hear? Lol!
Blessings
J.
I got sidetracked.. :rolleyes:
Had to deal with an attitude problem. :mad:
And then the sun came out. :cool:
And it's time to move forward. :)
Ready to share some more fruit. :D

Hugs
 

Johann

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Baptism is a symbol of salvation in that it pictures Christ's death, burial and resurrection and our identification with Him in these experiences. In reality, believers are literally saved by what baptism symbolizes--Christ's death, burial and resurrection. Salvation is signified, but not procured in the waters of baptism.

A man and a woman become united through their wedding vows and the ring symbolizes this. Just as we become united with Christ through faith and water baptism symbolizes this. Strictly speaking, the husband is united to his wife because of the marriage vows rather than the ring. Yet since the latter is the sign of their union, it is natural to speak of the ring to mean the reality it represents. "With this ring, I thee wed," although the ring is not the actual cause of the change in the marital status, just like water baptism is not the actual cause of our salvation status.

Baptism would have no meaning without Christ’s death, burial and resurrection, but Christ’s death, burial and resurrection would still have meaning, even if there were no baptism. In other words, Christ’s death, burial and resurrection is the substance and baptism is the sign/symbol/picture. Without the substance there would be no sign/symbol/picture.
I see, are you a member from Christian Chat?
Still haven't replied as to the source
Blessings
J.
@mailmandan
“I have not much patience with a certain
class of Christians nowadays who will hear
anybody preach so long as they can say,
‘He is very clever, a fine preacher, a man of
genius, a born orator.’ Is cleverness to make
false doctrine palatable? Why, sirs, to me
the ability of a man who preaches error is
my sorrow rather than my admiration.”
― Charles H. Spurgeon
 

Mjh29

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So what is the purpose of water baptism since there is no saving efficacy in it?
Blessings
J.
Because Christ told us to. Anyone who needs any more reason than this should seriously back up and examine themselves.
 

Johann

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Because Christ told us to. Anyone who needs any more reason than this should seriously back up and examine themselves.
Oh my!
To Elohim be the doxa
Blessings
J.

“The doctrine of the atonement is to my
mind one of the surest proofs of the divine
inspiration of Holy Scripture. Who would
or could have thought of the just Ruler
dying for the unjust rebel? This is no
teaching of human mythology, or dream of
poetical imagination. This method of
expiation is only known among men
because it is a fact; fiction could not have
devised it. God himself ordained it; it is not
a matter which could have been imagined.”
― Charles H. Spurgeon
 

Johann

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Acts2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you53 be immersed upon the name54 of Jesus Anointed55 for56 the release from sins, and you shall receive the gift of the holy Breath. 39 For the promise57 is to you, and to your children, and to all those unto afar, even as many as the Master our God should call.
53 Peter stressed that individual release from sins was necessary. It was not enough to rely on the prophecies of collective restoration of Israel. Jesus made the same point to Nicodemus (John 3:3,5). 54 ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματι – lit. “upon the name.” The preposition ἐπὶ with an object in the dative case implies “on the basis of.” From earliest times, immersion for the remission of sins was administered contingent upon the candidate’s “good confession” that “Jesus is the Anointed one, the Son of God.” This was itself an affirmation that Jesus was the subject of Psalm 2, the one who had been literally “begotten” out of God Himself (Psalm 2:7; John 8:42), yet was also the “Anointed King” (Psalm 2:2,6,8-9) of David’s seed who would sit upon David’s Throne and reign forever (Isa. 9:6-7). This “good confession” and its corresponding immersion in water was the “rock” upon which Jesus would build His universal assembly (Matt. 16:16-18; Acts 8:36-38; 1 Tim. 6:12). 55 There is no example, acknowledgement, or hint of the alleged Trinitarian baptismal formula ever being used in the New Testament. All of the baptisms recorded were upon the name of Jesus alone (Acts 8:16; Acts 10:48; Acts 19:5; Acts 22:16). The baptismal confession was exclusively that “Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.” Paul’s works also attribute water baptism to be joining with the death and resurrection of Jesus alone (Rom. 6:3-9) and being placed in the “Body of Christ” (1 Cor. 12:12-13). See note on Matt. 28:19. 56 The preposition εἰς points to reaching a goal, result, or destination. It is never looks backwards, as some have mistakenly claimed. It’s object is the intended result, in this case “the release of sins.” That this release from sins is the immediate result of one’s immersion is also taught in Mark 16:16; Luke 3:3; John 3:5; Acts 22:16; Rom. 6:2-8; Eph. 5:26; Titus 3:5. That salvation always follows immersion is also proven by the grammar of Mark 16:16. 57 That is the promise quoted from Joel 2 in vss. 17-21, which in context refers to God’s Breath being poured out upon “all flesh” in the Kingdom. The promise of Joel’s prophecy is therefore resurrection to an inheritance in the Kingdom.

1 Corinth 1:14-17 I thank God that I immersed none of you except Crispus and Gaius 15 so that no one may say that I immersed into my [own] name! 16 (Yet I immersed also the house of Stephanas. I have not perceived the rest if I immersed any other). 17 For the Anointed did not commission me to immerse20

***20 Some use this statement to deny the importance of immersion and its connection with conversion, claiming it is optional. However, Paul was not arguing that only a few Corinthians had been immersed, but that only a few of them had been immersed by him personally. It was not the normal practice of these evangelistic teams for the one preaching the message to also do the baptizing. That was usually left to the evangelist’s assistants, following Jesus’ example (John 3:22-26; John 4:1-2).
Baptism...following Jesus's example?
Why was Jesus baptized? He had no sins to confess
Blessings
J.
 

mailmandan

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I see, are you a member from Christian Chat?
Still haven't replied as to the source
Blessings
J.
@mailmandan
“I have not much patience with a certain
class of Christians nowadays who will hear
anybody preach so long as they can say,
‘He is very clever, a fine preacher, a man of
genius, a born orator.’ Is cleverness to make
false doctrine palatable? Why, sirs, to me
the ability of a man who preaches error is
my sorrow rather than my admiration.”
― Charles H. Spurgeon
Yes, I am a member of Christian Chat. I don’t have a particular source for all of my blessings. It’s a combination of information I either read or heard and agree with, some paraphrases along with my method of harmonizing scripture with scripture in order to reach my conclusion on doctrine.
 
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Johann

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Oh my!
To Elohim be the doxa
Blessings
J.

“The doctrine of the atonement is to my
mind one of the surest proofs of the divine
inspiration of Holy Scripture. Who would
or could have thought of the just Ruler
dying for the unjust rebel? This is no
teaching of human mythology, or dream of
poetical imagination. This method of
expiation is only known among men
because it is a fact; fiction could not have
devised it. God himself ordained it; it is not
a matter which could have been imagined.”
― Charles H. Spurgeon
Because Christ told us to. Anyone who needs any more reason than this should seriously back up and examine themselves.
Oh my..why was Jesus baptized? He had NO sins to confess
Blessings
J.


“Half our fears arise from neglect of the
Bible.”
― Charles H. Spurgeon
 

Johann

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Yes, I am a member of Christian Chat. I don’t have a particular source for all of my blessings. It’s a combination of information I either read or heard and agree with, some paraphrases along with my method of harmonizing scripture with scripture in order to reach my conclusion on doctrine.
I see, how is it there at Christian Chat? Better than here?
Seeking to be edified since there are no edification here.
Blessings
J.
Are you acquainted with the Reformers doctrinal teachings?
If so, which one do you enjoy reading?
Sadly, even their names are long forgotten.
 

Robert Gwin

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That baptism is in no wise essential to salvation, that it does not form one of the conditions which God requires the sinner to meet, is clear from many considerations.

First, if baptism be necessary to salvation then no one was saved before the days of John the Baptist, for the Old Testament will be searched from beginning to end without finding a single mention of "baptism."

God, who changes not, has had but one way of salvation since Adam and Eve became sinners in Eden, and if baptism is an indispensable prerequisite to the forgiveness of sins, then all who died from Abel to the time of Christ are eternally lost. But this is absurd. The Old Testament Scriptures plainly teach otherwise.

In the second place, if baptism be necessary to salvation, then every professing believer who has died during this present dispensation is eternally lost, if he died without being baptized. And this would shut heaven’s door upon the repentant thief, as well as all the Quakers and members of the Salvation Army, the vast majority of whom have never been baptized. But this is equally unthinkable.

In the third place, if baptism be necessary to salvation, then we must utterly ignore every passage in God’s Word which teaches that salvation is by grace and not of works, that it is a free gift and not bought by anything the sinner does. If baptism be essential to salvation, it is passing strange that Christ Himself never baptized any one (see John 4:2), for He came to "save his people from their sins."

If baptism be essential to salvation, it is passing strange that the apostle Paul when asked point blank by the Philippian jailer, "What must I do to be saved?" answered by saying, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved."

Finally, if baptism be essential to salvation, it is passing strange the apostle Paul should have written to the Corinthians, "I thank God I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius" (1 Cor. 1:14).
If then the words of Christ "born of water" have no reference to the waters of baptism, what do they signify?

Before replying directly to this question, we must observe how the word "water" is used in other passages in this Gospel. To the woman at the well Christ said, "Whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life" (John 4:14).

Was this literal "water?"

One has but to ask the question to answer it. Clearly, "water" is here used emblematically.

Again, in John 7:37, 38 we are told, "In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."

Here, too, the word "water" is not to be understood literally, but emblematically. These passages in John’s Gospel are sufficient to warrant us in giving the word "water" in John 3:5 a figurative meaning.
If then the Lord Jesus used the word "water" emblematically in John 3:5, to what was He referring? We answer, The Word of God.

This is ever the instrument used by God in regeneration. In every other passage where the instrument of the new birth is described, it is always the Word of God that is mentioned. In Psalm 119:50 we read, "For Thy word hath quickened me." Again, in 1 Corinthians 4:15 we find the apostle saying, "I have begotten you through the gospel." Again, we are told "Of his own will begat he us with (what?—baptism? no but with) the word of truth" (James 1:18).

Peter declares, "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever" (1 Pet. 1:23).

The new birth, then, is by the Word of God, and one of the emblems of the Word is "water." God employs quite a number of emblems to describe the various characteristics and qualities of His Word. It is likened to a "lamp" (<19B9105>Psalm 119:105) because it illumines. It is likened unto a "hammer" (Jer. 23:29) because it breaks up the hard heart. It is likened unto "water" because it cleanses: see Psalm 119:9; John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26: "Born of water" means born of the cleansing and purifying Word of God.

3. The Producer of the new birth. "Born of water, and of the Spirit" (John 3:5). The Holy Spirit of God is the Begetter, the Word is the "seed" (1 John 3:9)

He uses. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh: and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6). And again, "It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing" (John 6:63). Nothing could be plainer. No sinner is quickened apart from the Word.


4. The imperative Necessity of the new birth. "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (John 3:5).

By his first birth man enters this world a sinful creature, and because of this he is estranged from the thrice Holy One. Of the unregenerate it is said, "Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart." Unspeakably solemn is this. When Adam and Eve fell they were banished from the Paradise, and each of their children were born outside of Eden. That sin shuts man out from the holy presence of God, was impressively taught to Israel. When Jehovah came down on Sinai to give the Law unto Moses (the mediator), the people were fenced off at the base of the Mount, and were not suffered to pass on pain of death. When Jehovah took up His abode in the midst of the chosen people, He made His dwelling place inside the holy of holies, which was curtained off, and none was allowed to pass through the veil save the high priest, and he but once a year as he entered with the blood of atonement. Man then is away from God. He is, in his natural condition, where the prodigal son was—in the far country, away from the father’s house—and except he be born again he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." This is not an arbitrary decree, but the enunciation of an abiding principle.

Heaven is a prepared place for a prepared people. And this is the very nature of the case. An unregenerate man who has no relish at all for spiritual things, who is bored by the conversation of believers, who finds the Bible dull and dry, who is a stranger to the throne of grace, would be wretched in heaven.

Such a man could not spend eternity in the presence of God. Suppose a fish were taken out of the water, and laid upon a salver of gold; suppose further that the sweetest of flowers surrounded it, and that the air was filled with their fragrance; suppose, too, that the strains of most melodious music fell upon its ears, would that fish be happy and contented? Of course not. And why not? Because it would be out of harmony with its environment; because it would be lacking in capacity to appreciate its surroundings. Thus would it be with an unregenerate soul in heaven.
Once more. The new birth is an imperative necessity because the natural man is altogether devoid of spiritual life. It is not that he is ignorant and needs instruction: it is not that he is feeble and needs invigorating: it is not that he is sickly and needs doctoring. His case is far, far worse. He is dead in trespasses and sins. This is no poetical figure of speech; it is a solemn reality, little as it is perceived by the majority of people. The sinner is spiritually lifeless and needs quickening. He is a spiritual corpse, and needs bringing from death unto life. He is a member of the old creation, which is under the curse of God, and unless he is made a new creation in Christ, he will lie under that curse to all eternity. What the natural man needs above everything else is life, Divine life; and as birth is the gateway to life, he must be born again, and except he be born again, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. This is final.

You ask a lot here Joe, I will comment on baptism. I fully agree with you that baptism does not save, but not being baptized in some cases might result in rejection. Perhaps you feel the same way. The Bible says believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, and of course that is a true statement. Becoming a Christian is a growth process, so most people hear of Jesus, examine the evidence briefly and believe in him, at that point they logically are saved if they died right then. However most of us live on, and we are expected to grow in faith eternally. Most after hearing progress by examining more evidence by reading the Bible, then more dedicatedly studying it, as they come to know God, they see that God wants them to get baptized, like you stated this was a new thing to be practiced under the new covenant, and was not required under law. If one goes for years without progressing to baptism, then logically they are not pressing on to maturity, so quite possibly, although not the actual baptism itself, but the poor soil as Jesus used in an illustration, might cause them to lose out on the gift. Jesus makes the call however.
 

Enoch111

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It would appear that Justin Martyr (or Christians in the second century) came to believe in baptismal regeneration by misinterpreting John 3:5. And from there the Catholic church adopted this doctrine, since Justin is regarded as "Saint Justin". Here is what Justin wrote in his First Apology:

As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we praying and fasting with them.
Then they are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, “Unless you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven” (John 3:5).

The "water" to which Christ was alluding was not the water of baptism but the "water" of the Word of God (1 Peter 1:23-25). But it did not seem to affect the Catholic church's teaching as noted in the Catechism: 1213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua),4 and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word."5... 1228 Hence Baptism is a bath of water in which the "imperishable seed" of the Word of God produces its life-giving effect.32 St. Augustine says of Baptism: "The word is brought to the material element, and it becomes a sacrament."33

It is obvious that there is much confusion here, since there is a reference to the water of the Word of God (the Gospel) but then the water of baptism is mystically substituted for the Word.